m*****i
发帖数: 1873 | 1 22 ( Nl200 1$/2$)
one guy bet 7$ , I call on the botton , sb called
flop Ks2dqd
both check to me I bet 18$ into 22$ pot
sb ( very tricky guy called) turn is Ah
he check I check just in case he got 10 J and control the pot
river 3s so board is
Ks 2d Qd Ah 3s
he checked, I bet 48$ into 56$ pot for value , he instantly checke raise all
in!
so tough and I finally laid down. | i********r
发帖数: 1153 | 2 turn check is super bad...
raise all
【在 m*****i 的大作中提到】
: 22 ( Nl200 1$/2$)
: one guy bet 7$ , I call on the botton , sb called
: flop Ks2dqd
: both check to me I bet 18$ into 22$ pot
: sb ( very tricky guy called) turn is Ah
: he check I check just in case he got 10 J and control the pot
: river 3s so board is
: Ks 2d Qd Ah 3s
: he checked, I bet 48$ into 56$ pot for value , he instantly checke raise all
: in!
| m*****i
发帖数: 1873 | 3 I don't think so, obviously he is not drawing a flush. | m*****i
发帖数: 1873 | 4 what can I do if he check raise al in on the turn when Ahit?
same tough decision. obviously he is going to do that if I did bet on the
turn ( that will be a huge bet and he will definitly check raise allin) | f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 5 how much was his all-in?
as a donk, i feel it's a little suspicious he had TJ.
1) pre-flop, anything could happen for that $7 call, not much info.;
2) flop, 22 was defintely at the high end of possible range, and $18 was
good. it looked more like a Kx hand;
3) checking here when ace showed up matched the previous flop action for a
Kx hand;
4) to him, $48 into $56 pot was more like a "do-not-want-to-get-called" bet.
i doubt he would check twice with TJo, after all, you checked when ace
showed up
【在 m*****i 的大作中提到】
: 22 ( Nl200 1$/2$)
: one guy bet 7$ , I call on the botton , sb called
: flop Ks2dqd
: both check to me I bet 18$ into 22$ pot
: sb ( very tricky guy called) turn is Ah
: he check I check just in case he got 10 J and control the pot
: river 3s so board is
: Ks 2d Qd Ah 3s
: he checked, I bet 48$ into 56$ pot for value , he instantly checke raise all
: in!
| h*******s
发帖数: 3932 | 6 yeah I have similar thoughts. It's kind of impossible to check again at
river if he had the straight. And I think melonli's value bet is too high.
But I'm very confused about what hand he could have. If it's a straight or
big set, his river check is too risky (you may check down). If his hand is
worse, such as 2-pair, his allin seems too strong. Maybe he had 2-pair and
over played..
bet.
【在 f*****g 的大作中提到】
: how much was his all-in?
: as a donk, i feel it's a little suspicious he had TJ.
: 1) pre-flop, anything could happen for that $7 call, not much info.;
: 2) flop, 22 was defintely at the high end of possible range, and $18 was
: good. it looked more like a Kx hand;
: 3) checking here when ace showed up matched the previous flop action for a
: Kx hand;
: 4) to him, $48 into $56 pot was more like a "do-not-want-to-get-called" bet.
: i doubt he would check twice with TJo, after all, you checked when ace
: showed up
| h*******s
发帖数: 3932 | 7 Just something else..
I once saw Johnny Chan bet about 1k into an 8k pot at river. He already felt
his hand was beat on the turn, but decided to make this river bet anyway.
It's a blocking bet rather than value bet. Because of his strong image (a
pro), the opponent behaved weak and just called the small river bet with a
set. If Chan didn't bet, the opponent would most likely bet something and
Chan probably would still call. So 1k river bet was quite efficient and cost
him less.
bet.
【在 f*****g 的大作中提到】
: how much was his all-in?
: as a donk, i feel it's a little suspicious he had TJ.
: 1) pre-flop, anything could happen for that $7 call, not much info.;
: 2) flop, 22 was defintely at the high end of possible range, and $18 was
: good. it looked more like a Kx hand;
: 3) checking here when ace showed up matched the previous flop action for a
: Kx hand;
: 4) to him, $48 into $56 pot was more like a "do-not-want-to-get-called" bet.
: i doubt he would check twice with TJo, after all, you checked when ace
: showed up
| i********r
发帖数: 1153 | 8 you hit a set obviously you want to get value.
【在 m*****i 的大作中提到】
: I don't think so, obviously he is not drawing a flush.
| i********r
发帖数: 1153 | 9 thats why i don't like the check. yes it doesn't reveal your hand
strength but it also put you in a difficult position when your opponent
pushed. you would be playing a guessing game on the river and you are
subject to make huge mistakes like laying down a set against a over
played two pairs or bluff.
just keep it simple, bet turn and call the shove, even if he got the
straight you still have plenty of equity. it's not that unlikely the guy
shove in with some sort of combo draw anyways. the way
【在 h*******s 的大作中提到】
: yeah I have similar thoughts. It's kind of impossible to check again at
: river if he had the straight. And I think melonli's value bet is too high.
: But I'm very confused about what hand he could have. If it's a straight or
: big set, his river check is too risky (you may check down). If his hand is
: worse, such as 2-pair, his allin seems too strong. Maybe he had 2-pair and
: over played..
:
: bet.
| i********r
发帖数: 1153 | 10 flush draw was a major part of his range.
【在 m*****i 的大作中提到】
: I don't think so, obviously he is not drawing a flush.
| | | k***n
发帖数: 1682 | 11 i would put him on AK/AQ/kQ
all
【在 m*****i 的大作中提到】
: 22 ( Nl200 1$/2$)
: one guy bet 7$ , I call on the botton , sb called
: flop Ks2dqd
: both check to me I bet 18$ into 22$ pot
: sb ( very tricky guy called) turn is Ah
: he check I check just in case he got 10 J and control the pot
: river 3s so board is
: Ks 2d Qd Ah 3s
: he checked, I bet 48$ into 56$ pot for value , he instantly checke raise all
: in!
| m*****i
发帖数: 1873 | 12 he is a very good and fancy player.
he definitily don't have flush draw I guess.
1. he instantly check river, and when I bet 48$, he instantly check raise
all in ( that is not a bluff, if he tried to bluff , he will think at least
5 seconds to figure out my cards strength)
2. I need to call 130$ more, so I didn't put him on two pairs, since if he
got two pairs he will just check call the river( since either I am bluffing
or got sth very strong, like straight or set)
what is your thought frying? | k***n
发帖数: 1682 | 13 He put you on top pair K.
【在 k***n 的大作中提到】
: i would put him on AK/AQ/kQ
:
: all
| h*******s
发帖数: 3932 | 14 This is cash game. Usually people don't go allin with 2-pair.
Since he's a fancy player, he could play differently for this hand. In that
case, straight is possible.
And his instant check raise doesn't like a bluff to me. He probably wanted
to make it look like a bluff.
least
bluffing
【在 m*****i 的大作中提到】
: he is a very good and fancy player.
: he definitily don't have flush draw I guess.
: 1. he instantly check river, and when I bet 48$, he instantly check raise
: all in ( that is not a bluff, if he tried to bluff , he will think at least
: 5 seconds to figure out my cards strength)
: 2. I need to call 130$ more, so I didn't put him on two pairs, since if he
: got two pairs he will just check call the river( since either I am bluffing
: or got sth very strong, like straight or set)
: what is your thought frying?
| i********r
发帖数: 1153 | 15 the first statement is very confusing....
that
wanted
【在 h*******s 的大作中提到】
: This is cash game. Usually people don't go allin with 2-pair.
: Since he's a fancy player, he could play differently for this hand. In that
: case, straight is possible.
: And his instant check raise doesn't like a bluff to me. He probably wanted
: to make it look like a bluff.
:
: least
: bluffing
| h*******s
发帖数: 3932 | 16 I mean 2-pair is usually not the best hand if someone calls. If it's a
tournament, one could push with 2-pair. But in cash game, shouldn't he just
call the river bet?
Since melonli says he's a very good and fancy player, he may indeed has the
straight..
【在 i********r 的大作中提到】
: the first statement is very confusing....
:
: that
: wanted
| A*********n
发帖数: 45 | 17 So if you bet half pot on turn, and he simply calls. What will you do on
river?
What if he mean-raise you on turn?
I agree check on turn is not a good option, yet not sure the alternative is
better. Maybe just flop is juicy to me.
【在 i********r 的大作中提到】
: thats why i don't like the check. yes it doesn't reveal your hand
: strength but it also put you in a difficult position when your opponent
: pushed. you would be playing a guessing game on the river and you are
: subject to make huge mistakes like laying down a set against a over
: played two pairs or bluff.
: just keep it simple, bet turn and call the shove, even if he got the
: straight you still have plenty of equity. it's not that unlikely the guy
: shove in with some sort of combo draw anyways. the way
| f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 18 don't know, but i tend to believe:
1) he could not put you on a hand as strong as 22 to make a very risky (to
potentially lose value) check-shove on river and believe you would surely
bet/call to make all his moves profitable. if he could do this, he's indeed
too damn good;
2) then what hand he would put you on (i believe he must put you on
something)? KQ, AK? reasonable, but the check on turn may reduce his worries
, and an almost pot bet ($48 into $56 pot) didn't justify that you actually
want
【在 m*****i 的大作中提到】
: he is a very good and fancy player.
: he definitily don't have flush draw I guess.
: 1. he instantly check river, and when I bet 48$, he instantly check raise
: all in ( that is not a bluff, if he tried to bluff , he will think at least
: 5 seconds to figure out my cards strength)
: 2. I need to call 130$ more, so I didn't put him on two pairs, since if he
: got two pairs he will just check call the river( since either I am bluffing
: or got sth very strong, like straight or set)
: what is your thought frying?
| i********r
发帖数: 1153 | 19 i'll shove the river if he checks again. my mindset for this hand is to
get as much money in the pot as early as i can.
on
alternative is
【在 A*********n 的大作中提到】
: So if you bet half pot on turn, and he simply calls. What will you do on
: river?
: What if he mean-raise you on turn?
: I agree check on turn is not a good option, yet not sure the alternative is
: better. Maybe just flop is juicy to me.
| i********r
发帖数: 1153 | 20 oh you mean in this particular hand? it's really player dependent i
guess.
well, the thing about this hand is op didn't define his hand well. from
the other guy's stand point, op bet the flop when checked to on button,
he could have had almost anything. on the turn op checked, so his range
looks like a draw taking a free card , a bluff that's giving up or a
made hand looking to go to showdown cheaply. on the river, if op fold
set here, a check/raise with anything is profitable.
I'm not saying th
【在 h*******s 的大作中提到】
: I mean 2-pair is usually not the best hand if someone calls. If it's a
: tournament, one could push with 2-pair. But in cash game, shouldn't he just
: call the river bet?
: Since melonli says he's a very good and fancy player, he may indeed has the
: straight..
| | | i********r
发帖数: 1153 | 21 in the villain's mind he would almost never put op on a strong hand
simply because no strong made hand would choose a pot control line on
that board.
i can see some merit in checking your strong made hand to balance your
check range but i would much rather to do it on a dry board. on a drawy
board you are simply risking too much to win too little.
(to
surely
indeed
worries
actually
【在 f*****g 的大作中提到】
: don't know, but i tend to believe:
: 1) he could not put you on a hand as strong as 22 to make a very risky (to
: potentially lose value) check-shove on river and believe you would surely
: bet/call to make all his moves profitable. if he could do this, he's indeed
: too damn good;
: 2) then what hand he would put you on (i believe he must put you on
: something)? KQ, AK? reasonable, but the check on turn may reduce his worries
: , and an almost pot bet ($48 into $56 pot) didn't justify that you actually
: want
| l**********t
发帖数: 269 | 22 I dont like the check on the turn either. I think value betting on the
turn may be a better way for pot control than checking.
all
【在 m*****i 的大作中提到】
: 22 ( Nl200 1$/2$)
: one guy bet 7$ , I call on the botton , sb called
: flop Ks2dqd
: both check to me I bet 18$ into 22$ pot
: sb ( very tricky guy called) turn is Ah
: he check I check just in case he got 10 J and control the pot
: river 3s so board is
: Ks 2d Qd Ah 3s
: he checked, I bet 48$ into 56$ pot for value , he instantly checke raise all
: in!
| t*****s
发帖数: 1240 | 23 give him a hand range,
when he flat calls in small blind in a multiway pot, let's say his range is
any broadway, pairs, some suited connectors. He will never have AK,
otherwise he will 3 bet to protect. He may flat call with KK+ to trap.
You c-bet for 3/4 pot bet on a connected board. His calling range shrinks
down. Lets say now he's calling with sets, big draw(at least 8+ outs), two
pair, top pair good kicker. Then his hands are probably:
sets: KK, AA
two pair: KQo, KQs
top pair good kicker: K
【在 m*****i 的大作中提到】
: 22 ( Nl200 1$/2$)
: one guy bet 7$ , I call on the botton , sb called
: flop Ks2dqd
: both check to me I bet 18$ into 22$ pot
: sb ( very tricky guy called) turn is Ah
: he check I check just in case he got 10 J and control the pot
: river 3s so board is
: Ks 2d Qd Ah 3s
: he checked, I bet 48$ into 56$ pot for value , he instantly checke raise all
: in!
| t*****s
发帖数: 1240 | 24 by the way, I think 3-bet the initial opener in position is a good idea
with pocket pairs. Playing small pocket pair in a multiway pot is pretty
hard.
is
shrinks
【在 t*****s 的大作中提到】
: give him a hand range,
: when he flat calls in small blind in a multiway pot, let's say his range is
: any broadway, pairs, some suited connectors. He will never have AK,
: otherwise he will 3 bet to protect. He may flat call with KK+ to trap.
: You c-bet for 3/4 pot bet on a connected board. His calling range shrinks
: down. Lets say now he's calling with sets, big draw(at least 8+ outs), two
: pair, top pair good kicker. Then his hands are probably:
: sets: KK, AA
: two pair: KQo, KQs
: top pair good kicker: K
| t*****s
发帖数: 1240 | 25 I really don't like flat calling with AK in a multiway pot.
【在 k***n 的大作中提到】
: i would put him on AK/AQ/kQ
:
: all
| m*****i
发帖数: 1873 | 26 since he is a good player, he will not instantly called pot sized bet by a
flush draw out of position unless he got straight and flush draw( he will al
in then).
【在 i********r 的大作中提到】
: oh you mean in this particular hand? it's really player dependent i
: guess.
: well, the thing about this hand is op didn't define his hand well. from
: the other guy's stand point, op bet the flop when checked to on button,
: he could have had almost anything. on the turn op checked, so his range
: looks like a draw taking a free card , a bluff that's giving up or a
: made hand looking to go to showdown cheaply. on the river, if op fold
: set here, a check/raise with anything is profitable.
: I'm not saying th
| m*****i
发帖数: 1873 | 27 I don't think it is bad, since there is no card can hurt ( since he is not
on a flush draw) me on the river unless he made it already.
my check in position can induce a bluff or another value bet on the river by
myself can be easily called.
【在 i********r 的大作中提到】
: turn check is super bad...
:
: raise all
| m*****i
发帖数: 1873 | 28 he is very fancy that he might check the nuts twice.
【在 h*******s 的大作中提到】
: yeah I have similar thoughts. It's kind of impossible to check again at
: river if he had the straight. And I think melonli's value bet is too high.
: But I'm very confused about what hand he could have. If it's a straight or
: big set, his river check is too risky (you may check down). If his hand is
: worse, such as 2-pair, his allin seems too strong. Maybe he had 2-pair and
: over played..
:
: bet.
| l***o
发帖数: 302 | 29 I feel you might have laid down the best hand. After all poker is a gambling
game. |
|
