B*******1
发帖数: 88 | 1 记得以前好几次看到这样的说法：击球的时候头部尽量不要随球转动。头部转动导致球
的落点不准确。
可是我觉得这样做的原因是为了产生甩鞭的效果。我如果击球的时候头部刻意随球转动
去看球飞行的方向和落点，那么打出的球力量明显小很多，似乎没有鞭击的效果。
我看pro里面费费做的最明显，而且正手击球的时候头部明显比较偏向右肩，滞后于肩
部的转动。
请问各位是否有同感？ | x*d
发帖数: 1696 | 2 我觉得关键是两点，timing和稳定。“看球飞行的方向和落点，那么打出的球力量明显
小很多”很可能是因为想要看球，肩部打开过早。盯得紧的时候是timing最合适的时候
，能到达身体转动的最佳力量输出，就是那个甩鞭的感觉。我的感觉头盯紧还能阻止
overhit，因为要看球，肩膀不能转太多。和单反的左手动作一个道理，限制一点身体
的运动，保证最大程度的稳定和很高的效率。
我练了两年多，现在练习时能盯住，比赛紧张的时候就忘了。实际上头部是反向运动，
开始很别扭，象老费那样稍微歪点头会舒服一点。
【在 B*******1 的大作中提到】
: 记得以前好几次看到这样的说法：击球的时候头部尽量不要随球转动。头部转动导致球
: 的落点不准确。
: 可是我觉得这样做的原因是为了产生甩鞭的效果。我如果击球的时候头部刻意随球转动
: 去看球飞行的方向和落点，那么打出的球力量明显小很多，似乎没有鞭击的效果。
: 我看pro里面费费做的最明显，而且正手击球的时候头部明显比较偏向右肩，滞后于肩
: 部的转动。
: 请问各位是否有同感？
| b*********s
发帖数: 6757 | 3 是这样， 头部不动容易达到击球点准， 发力过程更加精准些。 头动往往是还没击到
球去看落点， 头一抬牵引着身体，身体带动些胯。。。 这些力没打到球就没了。。。
原来我知道， 比赛时还是没法控制。 rally中的开始一两球有时还可以做到， 比赛
一久，或rally一长就忘了。。。 专注力还是不行。。。
【在 B*******1 的大作中提到】
: 记得以前好几次看到这样的说法：击球的时候头部尽量不要随球转动。头部转动导致球
: 的落点不准确。
: 可是我觉得这样做的原因是为了产生甩鞭的效果。我如果击球的时候头部刻意随球转动
: 去看球飞行的方向和落点，那么打出的球力量明显小很多，似乎没有鞭击的效果。
: 我看pro里面费费做的最明显，而且正手击球的时候头部明显比较偏向右肩，滞后于肩
: 部的转动。
: 请问各位是否有同感？
| j******g
发帖数: 197 | 4 头部不动，好处两个：
1. 身体中轴稳，抽击更能用上力
2. 击球点看的准，容易打到甜区 | z*****k
发帖数: 600 | 5 那个头不动是的自我保护，不然暴力发力击球脑袋震动太大，特别球快的时候。LZ是对
的，颈部放松，neck unlocked，肩膀无忧暴力。费神精瘦，脖子长自由度也大，所以
明显，不要过多解读。 | x*d
发帖数: 1696 | 6 >颈部放松，neck unlocked
This is what Djokovic/Murray does.
>费神精瘦，脖子长自由度也大
Not really. Watching his super slow motion, you see his neck intentionally
turns the opposite direction (relative to shoulder), because he has greater
shoulder turn before the contact point.
The greater shoulder turn (compare to ATP average) usually makes stroke more
powerful but less accurate. Therefore he turns his neck intentionally to
the right to compensate the inaccuracy. You also see he tilts his neck a bit
, a nature response to make his special turn more comfortable. You don't see
many others players doing it.
Djokovic is more 精瘦，脖子长, but you don't see the process.
【在 z*****k 的大作中提到】
: 那个头不动是的自我保护，不然暴力发力击球脑袋震动太大，特别球快的时候。LZ是对
: 的，颈部放松，neck unlocked，肩膀无忧暴力。费神精瘦，脖子长自由度也大，所以
: 明显，不要过多解读。
| j******g
发帖数: 197 | 7 头部不动，好处两个：
1. 身体中轴稳，抽击更能用上力
2. 击球点看的准，容易打到甜区 | z*****k
发帖数: 600 | 8 Djok uses open stance more often, so the neck loosening-up is not very
obvious. Fed relaxes more for sure.
Nobody can't compensate shoulder turning thrust with their 10 pound head,
that's just crazy. See if a coach might help out on this. BTW, shoulder turn
is a power generator, not there for accuracy, it's your reflex that creates
nudges into your arm swing that does all the fine tuning.
greater
more
bit
see
【在 x*d 的大作中提到】
: >颈部放松，neck unlocked
: This is what Djokovic/Murray does.
: >费神精瘦，脖子长自由度也大
: Not really. Watching his super slow motion, you see his neck intentionally
: turns the opposite direction (relative to shoulder), because he has greater
: shoulder turn before the contact point.
: The greater shoulder turn (compare to ATP average) usually makes stroke more
: powerful but less accurate. Therefore he turns his neck intentionally to
: the right to compensate the inaccuracy. You also see he tilts his neck a bit
: , a nature response to make his special turn more comfortable. You don't see
| x*d
发帖数: 1696 | 9 you missed the point,Federer's shoulder turn is greater before contact point
, so if he doesn't turn head the opposite way, he cannot see the ball
clearly, there will be a lot of misshit/overhit, that's accuracy I talked
about. It has nothing to do with weight etc, how can it be?
Federer used open stance a lot, if he doesn't use it, you won't see that
obvious head tilt. Just turn your head to the right a bit extreme, you will
naturally tilt your head like he does.
turn
creates
【在 z*****k 的大作中提到】
: Djok uses open stance more often, so the neck loosening-up is not very
: obvious. Fed relaxes more for sure.
: Nobody can't compensate shoulder turning thrust with their 10 pound head,
: that's just crazy. See if a coach might help out on this. BTW, shoulder turn
: is a power generator, not there for accuracy, it's your reflex that creates
: nudges into your arm swing that does all the fine tuning.
:
: greater
: more
: bit
| x*d
发帖数: 1696 | 10 Seeing is believing, 0:13, you see the tilt, chin is near the shoulder.
You can try to find another player with his chin this close to shoulder in
the same side view angle, and the head tilt. Perhaps baby Federer is like,
Nadal is somewhere close.
Here is the comparison at about same angle between Federer (0:09, 0:14) and
Djokovic's(0:04, 0:25 etc), you can calculate the stance and average turning
angle.
turn
creates
【在 z*****k 的大作中提到】
: Djok uses open stance more often, so the neck loosening-up is not very
: obvious. Fed relaxes more for sure.
: Nobody can't compensate shoulder turning thrust with their 10 pound head,
: that's just crazy. See if a coach might help out on this. BTW, shoulder turn
: is a power generator, not there for accuracy, it's your reflex that creates
: nudges into your arm swing that does all the fine tuning.
:
: greater
: more
: bit
| | | x*d
发帖数: 1696 | 11 BTW, the two last videos were not at the exact same angle. What you can look
at are the stance, the relative angle between right shoulder and chin. Or
to find another video alike.
and
turning
【在 x*d 的大作中提到】
: Seeing is believing, 0:13, you see the tilt, chin is near the shoulder.
: You can try to find another player with his chin this close to shoulder in
: the same side view angle, and the head tilt. Perhaps baby Federer is like,
: Nadal is somewhere close.
: Here is the comparison at about same angle between Federer (0:09, 0:14) and
: Djokovic's(0:04, 0:25 etc), you can calculate the stance and average turning
: angle.
:
: turn
: creates
| z*****k
发帖数: 600 | 12 你这里说的是盯球，那费神做得比Djok是好，head tilting也是为了盯球更准，那是为
了补偿他的直臂正手。这些和之后头部保持不动没大关系。触球前neck就可以放松了，
Fed 侧头盯完球后正好头斜在右肩上“不动”。
point
will
【在 x*d 的大作中提到】
: you missed the point,Federer's shoulder turn is greater before contact point
: , so if he doesn't turn head the opposite way, he cannot see the ball
: clearly, there will be a lot of misshit/overhit, that's accuracy I talked
: about. It has nothing to do with weight etc, how can it be?
: Federer used open stance a lot, if he doesn't use it, you won't see that
: obvious head tilt. Just turn your head to the right a bit extreme, you will
: naturally tilt your head like he does.
:
: turn
: creates
| K****D
发帖数: 30533 | 13 偶觉得这个跟习惯有关吧。偏头的话更有助于发力（发力过程更长一些），更不利于
回位。
比如Wawrinka也偏：
Murray是著名的不盯球派，一样可以打：
and
turning
【在 x*d 的大作中提到】
: Seeing is believing, 0:13, you see the tilt, chin is near the shoulder.
: You can try to find another player with his chin this close to shoulder in
: the same side view angle, and the head tilt. Perhaps baby Federer is like,
: Nadal is somewhere close.
: Here is the comparison at about same angle between Federer (0:09, 0:14) and
: Djokovic's(0:04, 0:25 etc), you can calculate the stance and average turning
: angle.
:
: turn
: creates
| m**U
发帖数: 968 | 14 哈哈哈，击球震脑袋这理论很新颖嘛，怪不得gf老说我脑袋坏了
【在 z*****k 的大作中提到】
: 那个头不动是的自我保护，不然暴力发力击球脑袋震动太大，特别球快的时候。LZ是对
: 的，颈部放松，neck unlocked，肩膀无忧暴力。费神精瘦，脖子长自由度也大，所以
: 明显，不要过多解读。
| z*****k
发帖数: 600 | 15 我经常全副武装 wrist support, elbow compression brace, shoulder pad, 直臂击
球，是不是导致震动无法被关节吸收，直接去了脑袋？ 等Apple Watch弄来了，拆了表
带，捆脖子上好好测一下震动，比较比较。
【在 m**U 的大作中提到】
: 哈哈哈，击球震脑袋这理论很新颖嘛，怪不得gf老说我脑袋坏了
| x*d
发帖数: 1696 | 16 所以相对他们的天赋来说，Djokovic和Murray的正手没有 reach their potential建立
应有的统治力（Murray的正手还有其他的问题）。头不动确实能增加一种甩鞭的感觉，
能阻止肩膀过早打开，也能阻止overhit。业余选手象我们就能感受到。我再哆嗦可能
你也不信，如果你是西方半西方式，习惯开放步伐，这个可以自己感觉到。
开放步伐的统治地位实际是从90年代末才开始建立的，对于现在职业选手的启蒙教练那
一代来说可能甚至是新鲜的东西。我预测今后的孩子可能都会象老费学习，开放式加转
头是比较无敌的东西，既有力量又能保持准确程度。
还有关于zumanok的观点，我的看法是老费不是简单头relax而不动。我在附件里贴两个
连续的截屏，都是从我贴的第2个video里0：03秒（你可以从背景中确认）。黄线代表
肩中线和头的夹角，击球后老费的这个夹角明显缩小。这里很重要的一点是因为是开放
式，他的头在击球瞬间已经很偏了，击球后的那个夹角已经很不舒服了（试试就知道）
，脖子肌肉纤维会伸长到一个会自然归位的程度，所以这个时候简单的relax不能保证
那个状态。他采取的是歪头（his signature head tilt, 这个角度看不大清楚，可以
从其他的video看）或者可能包括稍微反向旋转。同样的这个业余选手也能感受到。
【在 K****D 的大作中提到】
: 偶觉得这个跟习惯有关吧。偏头的话更有助于发力（发力过程更长一些），更不利于
: 回位。
: 比如Wawrinka也偏：
: Murray是著名的不盯球派，一样可以打：
:
: and
: turning
| z*****k
发帖数: 600 | 17 正手打直臂平击topspin吗？你如果是，应该会感觉这个斜头很自然的。也许不打直臂
觉得这个角度不舒服。Verdasco正手也是有斜头的动作。 我也不觉得那是老费的招牌
动作，只是大多数人现在都打屈臂刷球。
至于是不是relax而不动，刚才空挥了一下，颈下部部有肩膀旋转导致的肌肉拉伸，其
余放松，基本就是这样了。
【在 x*d 的大作中提到】
: 所以相对他们的天赋来说，Djokovic和Murray的正手没有 reach their potential建立
: 应有的统治力（Murray的正手还有其他的问题）。头不动确实能增加一种甩鞭的感觉，
: 能阻止肩膀过早打开，也能阻止overhit。业余选手象我们就能感受到。我再哆嗦可能
: 你也不信，如果你是西方半西方式，习惯开放步伐，这个可以自己感觉到。
: 开放步伐的统治地位实际是从90年代末才开始建立的，对于现在职业选手的启蒙教练那
: 一代来说可能甚至是新鲜的东西。我预测今后的孩子可能都会象老费学习，开放式加转
: 头是比较无敌的东西，既有力量又能保持准确程度。
: 还有关于zumanok的观点，我的看法是老费不是简单头relax而不动。我在附件里贴两个
: 连续的截屏，都是从我贴的第2个video里0：03秒（你可以从背景中确认）。黄线代表
: 肩中线和头的夹角，击球后老费的这个夹角明显缩小。这里很重要的一点是因为是开放
| x*d
发帖数: 1696 | 18 >正手打直臂平击topspin吗？你如果是，应该会感觉这个斜头很自然的。
Mind to share your video? Perhaps it's indeed nature for some people, but
from my limited experiences, I rarely saw. It took myself more than 2 years
to hold my head like in this video, still not good.
http://www.mitbbs.com/article_t/Tennis/32129999.html
The argument is whether one needs to just relax his neck, or to
intentionally hold it. My point is Federer had to hold it, at lest at the
time when he started learning Tennis. Later on it became nature for him so
it looks like effortless. If you can naturally do it like Federer, I'm
completely wrong and you got talent.
【在 z*****k 的大作中提到】
: 正手打直臂平击topspin吗？你如果是，应该会感觉这个斜头很自然的。也许不打直臂
: 觉得这个角度不舒服。Verdasco正手也是有斜头的动作。 我也不觉得那是老费的招牌
: 动作，只是大多数人现在都打屈臂刷球。
: 至于是不是relax而不动，刚才空挥了一下，颈下部部有肩膀旋转导致的肌肉拉伸，其
: 余放松，基本就是这样了。
| z*****k
发帖数: 600 | 19 I don't feel this thing is such a big deal. But I am not so much into
following any particular pros' styles either. I am not sure why you'd be
serious with this head thing. Maybe you like to improve some fundamentals?
Just my impression: this "head fixation" stuff is a side-effect of forming a
rotating axis between your head and one of your feet (depending on natural
or open stance), before starting shoulder rotating/whipping your arm forward
. Once this axis framing is there, i just don't see where-else your head can
do (other than rotate a little to follow the incoming ball). In other words
, if it turns out the body actually does the holding, it is not from your
intention 刻意 to do it. Someone unknown doing it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Fj3M90qC6Q
For testing fundamentals, it would be useful to try some hard shots, like
one above, to see how well you could do it. Usually that tends to magnify
weak spots, if any, which might expose something related to your head
fixation question.
years
【在 x*d 的大作中提到】
: >正手打直臂平击topspin吗？你如果是，应该会感觉这个斜头很自然的。
: Mind to share your video? Perhaps it's indeed nature for some people, but
: from my limited experiences, I rarely saw. It took myself more than 2 years
: to hold my head like in this video, still not good.
: http://www.mitbbs.com/article_t/Tennis/32129999.html
: The argument is whether one needs to just relax his neck, or to
: intentionally hold it. My point is Federer had to hold it, at lest at the
: time when he started learning Tennis. Later on it became nature for him so
: it looks like effortless. If you can naturally do it like Federer, I'm
: completely wrong and you got talent.
| z*****k
发帖数: 600 | 20 Just saw your video, you were on the third video link. i don't think you use
straight arm for forehand hitting. So I don't really think you should
follow Federer's forehand hitting head body style. | | | x*d
发帖数: 1696 | 21 You are right, my arm is not straight. Straight arm is difficult to use. I
didn't really see amateur player doing it good. That's why I'm curious at
your statement "正手打直臂平击topspin吗？你如果是，应该会感觉这个斜头很自然
的。" If you meant your own experiences, it'll be very interesting for us to
see.
My son does use straight arm at the beginning, and I don't think the head-
tilt is nature for him. It took practice. But I could be wrong because of my
limited experience in the small tennis circle.
If you meant to argue that players like Federer/Verdasco/Nadal...use it so
it must be nature, it's a weak argument because you never know how they
really felt. I still believe Federer learned in a way of holding it
intentionally with some force.
use
【在 z*****k 的大作中提到】
: Just saw your video, you were on the third video link. i don't think you use
: straight arm for forehand hitting. So I don't really think you should
: follow Federer's forehand hitting head body style.
| z*****k
发帖数: 600 | 22 It probably is not good idea to do straight arm if you haven't had it, if
you ask me. My wrist hurts from time to time once I get tired and timing is
off, plus it UE a lot if not warms up well or condition problem. So don't
ask me show it. I picked it up without knowing what i was doing.
While eye contact yes, you should not worry about having a head tilt or not.
Not for your son either. He plays very well but I wouldn't say he is
leaning toward a straight arm, which is too early anyway.
to
my
【在 x*d 的大作中提到】
: You are right, my arm is not straight. Straight arm is difficult to use. I
: didn't really see amateur player doing it good. That's why I'm curious at
: your statement "正手打直臂平击topspin吗？你如果是，应该会感觉这个斜头很自然
: 的。" If you meant your own experiences, it'll be very interesting for us to
: see.
:
: My son does use straight arm at the beginning, and I don't think the head-
: tilt is nature for him. It took practice. But I could be wrong because of my
: limited experience in the small tennis circle.
: If you meant to argue that players like Federer/Verdasco/Nadal...use it so
| x*d
发帖数: 1696 | 23 I stopped my son from doing straight-arm. I think straight-arm is more
powerful but timing is difficult and it's UE-prone, similar to what you said
.
I argue about this seriously because I teach my son to hold his head with
force. If I'm wrong I need to make a change.
By all means, this is a good discussion. I hope to play you later.
is
not.
【在 z*****k 的大作中提到】
: It probably is not good idea to do straight arm if you haven't had it, if
: you ask me. My wrist hurts from time to time once I get tired and timing is
: off, plus it UE a lot if not warms up well or condition problem. So don't
: ask me show it. I picked it up without knowing what i was doing.
: While eye contact yes, you should not worry about having a head tilt or not.
: Not for your son either. He plays very well but I wouldn't say he is
: leaning toward a straight arm, which is too early anyway.
:
: to
: my
| p******3
发帖数: 318 | 24 身体的协调性最重要。转与不转,看怎么舒服了
【在 B*******1 的大作中提到】
: 记得以前好几次看到这样的说法：击球的时候头部尽量不要随球转动。头部转动导致球
: 的落点不准确。
: 可是我觉得这样做的原因是为了产生甩鞭的效果。我如果击球的时候头部刻意随球转动
: 去看球飞行的方向和落点，那么打出的球力量明显小很多，似乎没有鞭击的效果。
: 我看pro里面费费做的最明显，而且正手击球的时候头部明显比较偏向右肩，滞后于肩
: 部的转动。
: 请问各位是否有同感？
|
|
