Z****g
发帖数: 13731 | |
i*******r
发帖数: 166 | |
r***k
发帖数: 13586 | |
s********u
发帖数: 1054 | 4 去年下半年以来在这个版听到的失败的故事 (要是有出入的地方请资深ID纠
正)：
1：以前一个在这里很活跃的ID， 09年好像是借钱做空市场，亏空很大，再加上年龄大了又失业，一下想不开去日本富士山下自杀了。
2 ：去年下半年一个在这里比较活跃的老ID自己讲的自己的故事： 在股市里面赚了很多套房子， 又陆续全部输出去，去年好像在中餐馆打工。 现在好像很久不来了。
3： 很多资深Id都应该知道的一个ID，当年古板一个大帮的重要人物， 据最近几个人的帖子反应的情况看， 好像在股市输了不少钱，搞得生活都有点困难了。 这位去年不时还来，现在好像也不来古板了。
【在 Z****g 的大作中提到】
: 故事是负和游戏？
|
c**********e
发帖数: 2007 | |
s********u
发帖数: 1054 | 6 为尊者违， 我就不提ID了。
【在 c**********e 的大作中提到】
: 1 is imortal?
|
f*******4
发帖数: 345 | |
l********t
发帖数: 429 | 8 99%的人每人亏10000刀， wiped out.
1%的人每人盈利1million.
总体是应该是正的，broker赚了不少，高盛的计算机楷了不少油。
【在 Z****g 的大作中提到】
: 故事是负和游戏？
|
a****b
发帖数: 3588 | 9 1. I**********?
2. ?
3. H**********?
股市是风险大
大了又失业，一下想不开去日本富士山下自杀了。
很多套房子， 又陆续全部输出去，去年好像在中餐馆打工。 现在好像很久不来了。
人的帖子反应的情况看， 好像在股市输了不少钱，搞得生活都有点困难了。 这位去年
不时还来，现在好像也不来古板了。
【在 s********u 的大作中提到】
: 去年下半年以来在这个版听到的失败的故事 (要是有出入的地方请资深ID纠
: 正)：
: 1：以前一个在这里很活跃的ID， 09年好像是借钱做空市场，亏空很大，再加上年龄大了又失业，一下想不开去日本富士山下自杀了。
: 2 ：去年下半年一个在这里比较活跃的老ID自己讲的自己的故事： 在股市里面赚了很多套房子， 又陆续全部输出去，去年好像在中餐馆打工。 现在好像很久不来了。
: 3： 很多资深Id都应该知道的一个ID，当年古板一个大帮的重要人物， 据最近几个人的帖子反应的情况看， 好像在股市输了不少钱，搞得生活都有点困难了。 这位去年不时还来，现在好像也不来古板了。
|
S**********r
发帖数: 553 | 10 不会吧？？ immortal以前还常灌水的。
2，3是谁呢？ 既然人已经不再了，就告诉我们青蛙吧。引以为戒。
或者短信给我。
【在 a****b 的大作中提到】
: 1. I**********?
: 2. ?
: 3. H**********?
: 股市是风险大
:
: 大了又失业，一下想不开去日本富士山下自杀了。
: 很多套房子， 又陆续全部输出去，去年好像在中餐馆打工。 现在好像很久不来了。
: 人的帖子反应的情况看， 好像在股市输了不少钱，搞得生活都有点困难了。 这位去年
: 不时还来，现在好像也不来古板了。
|
|
|
Z****g
发帖数: 13731 | 11 既然如此，股版应该关闭啊。
以免新人进入这个绞肉机。
LIVERMORE这等奇才都是外婆几次才发财，况且还是以自杀告终。
大家想想自己吧。可能很多人都认为自己是那1% 或 5%。。。
【在 Z****g 的大作中提到】
: 故事是负和游戏？
|
j*****h
发帖数: 3292 | 12 OMG
1 是immortal? 可信吗？ 我想过查他以前的贴了，么都没有查到
2，3，指点一下吧, 对偶们蛙有帮助
网络本来就是虚的，我想没有人会把ID 和真实的自已等同吧
大了又失业，一下想不开去日本富士山下自杀了。
很多套房子， 又陆续全部输出去，去年好像在中餐馆打工。 现在好像很久不来了。
人的帖子反应的情况看， 好像在股市输了不少钱，搞得生活都有点困难了。 这位去年
不时还来，现在好像也不来古板了。
【在 s********u 的大作中提到】
: 去年下半年以来在这个版听到的失败的故事 (要是有出入的地方请资深ID纠
: 正)：
: 1：以前一个在这里很活跃的ID， 09年好像是借钱做空市场，亏空很大，再加上年龄大了又失业，一下想不开去日本富士山下自杀了。
: 2 ：去年下半年一个在这里比较活跃的老ID自己讲的自己的故事： 在股市里面赚了很多套房子， 又陆续全部输出去，去年好像在中餐馆打工。 现在好像很久不来了。
: 3： 很多资深Id都应该知道的一个ID，当年古板一个大帮的重要人物， 据最近几个人的帖子反应的情况看， 好像在股市输了不少钱，搞得生活都有点困难了。 这位去年不时还来，现在好像也不来古板了。
|
s*****n
发帖数: 5488 | 13 123都不能被叫做trader:)否则门槛也太低了。 |
i*******r
发帖数: 166 | 14 很多书，论坛上说的是小于5%，1%这个数据是从哪来的?时间越长比如20年，真的是越
来越少，能活下的小于1%吗？ |
s8
发帖数: 424 | 15 3 不会是HQ吧？
他现在好像天天混在跳蚤市场。
大了又失业，一下想不开去日本富士山下自杀了。
很多套房子， 又陆续全部输出去，去年好像在中餐馆打工。 现在好像很久不来了。
人的帖子反应的情况看， 好像在股市输了不少钱，搞得生活都有点困难了。 这位去年
不时还来，现在好像也不来古板了。
【在 s********u 的大作中提到】
: 去年下半年以来在这个版听到的失败的故事 (要是有出入的地方请资深ID纠
: 正)：
: 1：以前一个在这里很活跃的ID， 09年好像是借钱做空市场，亏空很大，再加上年龄大了又失业，一下想不开去日本富士山下自杀了。
: 2 ：去年下半年一个在这里比较活跃的老ID自己讲的自己的故事： 在股市里面赚了很多套房子， 又陆续全部输出去，去年好像在中餐馆打工。 现在好像很久不来了。
: 3： 很多资深Id都应该知道的一个ID，当年古板一个大帮的重要人物， 据最近几个人的帖子反应的情况看， 好像在股市输了不少钱，搞得生活都有点困难了。 这位去年不时还来，现在好像也不来古板了。
|
S******t
发帖数: 8388 | 16 真的假的?
大了又失业，一下想不开去日本富士山下自杀了。
很多套房子， 又陆续全部输出去，去年好像在中餐馆打工。 现在好像很久不来了。
人的帖子反应的情况看， 好像在股市输了不少钱，搞得生活都有点困难了。 这位去年
不时还来，现在好像也不来古板了。
【在 s********u 的大作中提到】
: 去年下半年以来在这个版听到的失败的故事 (要是有出入的地方请资深ID纠
: 正)：
: 1：以前一个在这里很活跃的ID， 09年好像是借钱做空市场，亏空很大，再加上年龄大了又失业，一下想不开去日本富士山下自杀了。
: 2 ：去年下半年一个在这里比较活跃的老ID自己讲的自己的故事： 在股市里面赚了很多套房子， 又陆续全部输出去，去年好像在中餐馆打工。 现在好像很久不来了。
: 3： 很多资深Id都应该知道的一个ID，当年古板一个大帮的重要人物， 据最近几个人的帖子反应的情况看， 好像在股市输了不少钱，搞得生活都有点困难了。 这位去年不时还来，现在好像也不来古板了。
|
S******t
发帖数: 8388 | 17 你怎么知道的?
股市太害人了.
【在 s********u 的大作中提到】
: 为尊者违， 我就不提ID了。
|
g********5
发帖数: 10335 | 18 冷暖自知
【在 S******t 的大作中提到】
: 你怎么知道的?
: 股市太害人了.
|
S******t
发帖数: 8388 | 19 嗯,胆小也是有点好处的.:-)
【在 g********5 的大作中提到】
: 冷暖自知
|
d******e
发帖数: 6945 | 20 股市和赌场、毒品一样，一点都不害人。都是人自己害自己。
【在 S******t 的大作中提到】
: 你怎么知道的?
: 股市太害人了.
|
|
|
g*****u
发帖数: 14294 | 21 小呆快发功。俺A股还等着发财过年呢!
【在 d******e 的大作中提到】
: 股市和赌场、毒品一样，一点都不害人。都是人自己害自己。
|
z*******o
发帖数: 4773 | |
S******t
发帖数: 8388 | 23 嗯,所以要做到大牛们说的,keep boring, be patient.不贪心.
【在 d******e 的大作中提到】
: 股市和赌场、毒品一样，一点都不害人。都是人自己害自己。
|
g********5
发帖数: 10335 | 24 正等着你的系统 发指令 凿空呢?
【在 g*****u 的大作中提到】
: 小呆快发功。俺A股还等着发财过年呢!
|
g*****u
发帖数: 14294 | 25 we may see 1210- today.
【在 g********5 的大作中提到】
: 正等着你的系统 发指令 凿空呢?
|
h******o
发帖数: 6113 | 26 等年底前加息完。
【在 g*****u 的大作中提到】
: 小呆快发功。俺A股还等着发财过年呢!
|
g********5
发帖数: 10335 | 27 good, i thoungt it will go above 1230, seems i was wrong
【在 g*****u 的大作中提到】
: we may see 1210- today.
|
S******t
发帖数: 8388 | 28 你还没休息? 牛叉!
还有圣诞rally吗?
【在 h******o 的大作中提到】
: 等年底前加息完。
|
m********0
发帖数: 2717 | 29 怎末可能，我把钱放在账户里，不trade，就是top 5%的trader了。
【在 Z****g 的大作中提到】
: 故事是负和游戏？
|
d******e
发帖数: 6945 | 30 spx今天还可以涨，明天应该调整了。
【在 g*****u 的大作中提到】
: we may see 1210- today.
|
|
|
s*****r
发帖数: 1745 | 31 I have a friend who has been trading stocks for the past 20 years and he
manages to make averagely 6 digit income annually, and he only trade one
stock---GE---, of course sometimes he hold some long term positions in other
stocks, but when he DT, he only do"GE".
I am not sure about his 6 digit income annually on trading GE, but the point
is if you trade blue chip companies, you might lose a bit but you will
definitely not be wiped out. |
S******t
发帖数: 8388 | 32 WOW. 这是我想做的.
就盯少数批可.但先要耐的住诱惑.
太佩服了!
other
point
【在 s*****r 的大作中提到】
: I have a friend who has been trading stocks for the past 20 years and he
: manages to make averagely 6 digit income annually, and he only trade one
: stock---GE---, of course sometimes he hold some long term positions in other
: stocks, but when he DT, he only do"GE".
: I am not sure about his 6 digit income annually on trading GE, but the point
: is if you trade blue chip companies, you might lose a bit but you will
: definitely not be wiped out.
|
w******s
发帖数: 16209 | 33 I think top trader could make 7 digits in single day.
other
point
【在 s*****r 的大作中提到】
: I have a friend who has been trading stocks for the past 20 years and he
: manages to make averagely 6 digit income annually, and he only trade one
: stock---GE---, of course sometimes he hold some long term positions in other
: stocks, but when he DT, he only do"GE".
: I am not sure about his 6 digit income annually on trading GE, but the point
: is if you trade blue chip companies, you might lose a bit but you will
: definitely not be wiped out.
|
s*****r
发帖数: 1745 | 34 and besides, try not to use margin to day trade, you will be very sorry if u
use a lot of margin when the market suddenly goes against you.
LONG LIVE, DAYTRADERS!!!
other
point
【在 s*****r 的大作中提到】
: I have a friend who has been trading stocks for the past 20 years and he
: manages to make averagely 6 digit income annually, and he only trade one
: stock---GE---, of course sometimes he hold some long term positions in other
: stocks, but when he DT, he only do"GE".
: I am not sure about his 6 digit income annually on trading GE, but the point
: is if you trade blue chip companies, you might lose a bit but you will
: definitely not be wiped out.
|
s*****r
发帖数: 1745 | 35 As for profits, you have traders making dozens of millions in some day in
those big institutions.
I am talking about average JOEs here, bud.
【在 w******s 的大作中提到】
: I think top trader could make 7 digits in single day.
:
: other
: point
|
S**********r
发帖数: 553 | 36 6 digit per month or per year?? 可靠消息，村长每年税后都是net profit8位数字了
other
point
【在 s*****r 的大作中提到】
: I have a friend who has been trading stocks for the past 20 years and he
: manages to make averagely 6 digit income annually, and he only trade one
: stock---GE---, of course sometimes he hold some long term positions in other
: stocks, but when he DT, he only do"GE".
: I am not sure about his 6 digit income annually on trading GE, but the point
: is if you trade blue chip companies, you might lose a bit but you will
: definitely not be wiped out.
|
w******s
发帖数: 16209 | 37 a lot of day traders who make living on dt stocks usually get good leverage
prop traders in US could get 10 to 20 times margin on stock and overseas
could arrange up to 100 to 200 time margin.
and of course the firms make safer money and most of the traders can't
survive
u
【在 s*****r 的大作中提到】
: and besides, try not to use margin to day trade, you will be very sorry if u
: use a lot of margin when the market suddenly goes against you.
: LONG LIVE, DAYTRADERS!!!
:
: other
: point
|
w******s
发帖数: 16209 | 38 小数点后8位
字了
【在 S**********r 的大作中提到】
: 6 digit per month or per year?? 可靠消息，村长每年税后都是net profit8位数字了
:
: other
: point
|
m********0
发帖数: 2717 | 39 at least 8 digits record.
top loss is about 10 or 11 digits for one trader, might not be one day
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_trading_losses
【在 w******s 的大作中提到】
: I think top trader could make 7 digits in single day.
:
: other
: point
|
s*****r
发帖数: 1745 | 40 YES, you are right about the prop trader part.
However, a lot more day traders just trade on their own and on margins.
Again, bud, the point is if you wanna DT, trade what you have , and then
accumulate, and then trade big. and thats how a day trader can survive and
never be wiped out and STAY IN MARKET.
leverage
【在 w******s 的大作中提到】
: a lot of day traders who make living on dt stocks usually get good leverage
: prop traders in US could get 10 to 20 times margin on stock and overseas
: could arrange up to 100 to 200 time margin.
: and of course the firms make safer money and most of the traders can't
: survive
:
: u
|
|
|
w******s
发帖数: 16209 | 41 is this single day record?
【在 m********0 的大作中提到】
: at least 8 digits record.
: top loss is about 10 or 11 digits for one trader, might not be one day
: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_trading_losses
|
m********0
发帖数: 2717 | 42 that's only the way you like to play, just like your name.
There are ppl who seldom trades until she/he felt it's a great chance.
scalping is safer but less fun.
【在 s*****r 的大作中提到】
: YES, you are right about the prop trader part.
: However, a lot more day traders just trade on their own and on margins.
: Again, bud, the point is if you wanna DT, trade what you have , and then
: accumulate, and then trade big. and thats how a day trader can survive and
: never be wiped out and STAY IN MARKET.
:
: leverage
|
g********5
发帖数: 10335 | 43 that is annual loss
【在 m********0 的大作中提到】
: at least 8 digits record.
: top loss is about 10 or 11 digits for one trader, might not be one day
: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_trading_losses
|
w******s
发帖数: 16209 | 44 If DT stock, and if he is good, there is not much reason he play with his
own account and not to go with some firm.
if trade options or futures it is totally different.
retails account usually can't have good enough commission plan and it is a
big portion in active day trading.
there are even some trader just do rebate trading to get exchange rebate and
could make quite some money in the dt.
If he is good making DT with his own account, then he shouldn't be ONLY
making 6 digits in a year.
【在 s*****r 的大作中提到】
: YES, you are right about the prop trader part.
: However, a lot more day traders just trade on their own and on margins.
: Again, bud, the point is if you wanna DT, trade what you have , and then
: accumulate, and then trade big. and thats how a day trader can survive and
: never be wiped out and STAY IN MARKET.
:
: leverage
|
m********0
发帖数: 2717 | 45 I don't think so, that's one single trade, not necessarily in a day.
【在 g********5 的大作中提到】
: that is annual loss
|
w******s
发帖数: 16209 | 46 看到了。
【在 m********0 的大作中提到】
: I don't think so, that's one single trade, not necessarily in a day.
|
s*****r
发帖数: 1745 | 47 I am not a full time scalper actually, I mainly do swing and do some intra-
day trades scalping bit here and there.
The original post is about the percentage of day traders can survive in this
market: and my point is whether you are gonna be wiped out or survive
totally depends on how you trade and what you trade. From what I heard plus
my won experiences, many traders who make money and stay in the market never
touch low quality companies and many do not use over 15% of margin (only
necessary).
Just my 2 cents. and I think if I DT, I will follow that route.
【在 m********0 的大作中提到】
: that's only the way you like to play, just like your name.
: There are ppl who seldom trades until she/he felt it's a great chance.
: scalping is safer but less fun.
|
g********5
发帖数: 10335 | 48 Truely, i once several traders DT with their own money, earn 7 digits within
3 months, just beginning from 5 digits.
and
【在 w******s 的大作中提到】
: If DT stock, and if he is good, there is not much reason he play with his
: own account and not to go with some firm.
: if trade options or futures it is totally different.
: retails account usually can't have good enough commission plan and it is a
: big portion in active day trading.
: there are even some trader just do rebate trading to get exchange rebate and
: could make quite some money in the dt.
: If he is good making DT with his own account, then he shouldn't be ONLY
: making 6 digits in a year.
|
w******s
发帖数: 16209 | 49 if you do scalping, I don't think that is good choice.
if you do swing style dt, then not use over 15% margin could be safe and
wise .
this
plus
never
【在 s*****r 的大作中提到】
: I am not a full time scalper actually, I mainly do swing and do some intra-
: day trades scalping bit here and there.
: The original post is about the percentage of day traders can survive in this
: market: and my point is whether you are gonna be wiped out or survive
: totally depends on how you trade and what you trade. From what I heard plus
: my won experiences, many traders who make money and stay in the market never
: touch low quality companies and many do not use over 15% of margin (only
: necessary).
: Just my 2 cents. and I think if I DT, I will follow that route.
|
w******s
发帖数: 16209 | 50 i believe so. I think if someone knows how to trade, he should make more
than 6 digits.
unless he stuck in stock scalping, then he should go with some firm to
increase his profit.
within
【在 g********5 的大作中提到】
: Truely, i once several traders DT with their own money, earn 7 digits within
: 3 months, just beginning from 5 digits.
:
: and
|
|
|
a*o
发帖数: 19981 | 51 据说人类长期生存率是0%，有文字记载以来未见不死之身。
【在 Z****g 的大作中提到】
: 故事是负和游戏？
|
m********0
发帖数: 2717 | 52 partially agree.
the reason that traders decide to trade for himself is they become over-
confident with some records in a firm
and prop firm usually takes majority of their profits.
Second reason is spiritual independence.
But it turned out to be a bad change for a lot of them.
I was going to see about rebate trading. This and arbitrage are the safest
way to play.
But most ppl in this game is arrogant to believe she/he is going to
outperform others and win their money.
So majority of them are directional, and majority of them take risk
voluntarily
and
【在 w******s 的大作中提到】
: If DT stock, and if he is good, there is not much reason he play with his
: own account and not to go with some firm.
: if trade options or futures it is totally different.
: retails account usually can't have good enough commission plan and it is a
: big portion in active day trading.
: there are even some trader just do rebate trading to get exchange rebate and
: could make quite some money in the dt.
: If he is good making DT with his own account, then he shouldn't be ONLY
: making 6 digits in a year.
|
g********5
发帖数: 10335 | 53 Agree, that kind people should have addictions with stock scalping lol...
【在 w******s 的大作中提到】
: i believe so. I think if someone knows how to trade, he should make more
: than 6 digits.
: unless he stuck in stock scalping, then he should go with some firm to
: increase his profit.
:
: within
|
m********0
发帖数: 2717 | 54 I am capable of that too.
but the thing is for individuals,
scale up is hard, not only due to liquidity.
one should go for other investment.
There are a lot future traders making 10-100M
turn to other trading vehicles
within
【在 g********5 的大作中提到】
: Truely, i once several traders DT with their own money, earn 7 digits within
: 3 months, just beginning from 5 digits.
:
: and
|
S**********r
发帖数: 553 | 55 去年Citi不是有个叫Hall的trader bonus就是$100 million吗？ 这种trader和
John Paulson/Soros比谁更牛啊？ trader是不管fundamental的吧？ 都是些poker 高
手 |
m********0
发帖数: 2717 | 56 I understand, I was not judging your trading.
I just want to mention that's not the only way.
this
plus
never
【在 s*****r 的大作中提到】
: I am not a full time scalper actually, I mainly do swing and do some intra-
: day trades scalping bit here and there.
: The original post is about the percentage of day traders can survive in this
: market: and my point is whether you are gonna be wiped out or survive
: totally depends on how you trade and what you trade. From what I heard plus
: my won experiences, many traders who make money and stay in the market never
: touch low quality companies and many do not use over 15% of margin (only
: necessary).
: Just my 2 cents. and I think if I DT, I will follow that route.
|
m********0
发帖数: 2717 | 57 John Paulson is really not a master.
Besides, you are comparing apples with oranges.
【在 S**********r 的大作中提到】
: 去年Citi不是有个叫Hall的trader bonus就是$100 million吗？ 这种trader和
: John Paulson/Soros比谁更牛啊？ trader是不管fundamental的吧？ 都是些poker 高
: 手
|
g********5
发帖数: 10335 | 58 U are sure to be qualified earning that much!
Someone is prone to trade stock, maybe just cuz more familar with it
【在 m********0 的大作中提到】
: I am capable of that too.
: but the thing is for individuals,
: scale up is hard, not only due to liquidity.
: one should go for other investment.
: There are a lot future traders making 10-100M
: turn to other trading vehicles
:
: within
|
w******s
发帖数: 16209 | 59 I mainly talking about the case scalper mentioned above.
for the case that someone trade for years and making stable 6 figures each
year
I could imagine what kinda way he use to do that kinda boring trade and I
believe some leverage could help there.
I have some friend who opend prop shop and I even looked into this business
by myself, and I see the nowadays prop shop take only small portion of the
gain and there is a lot of advantage. the prop shop biz mainly make money in
tiny fraction of the wholesale commission difference and small portion of
the trader's gain.
(I don't have much insight about options or futures prop shop.)
OK.. spiritual independence could be a good reason. And I believe some
trader also don't like to share his records with others
if he has some "trading secret", but brokers anyway always actively analyze
the top gain trader's records.
【在 m********0 的大作中提到】
: partially agree.
: the reason that traders decide to trade for himself is they become over-
: confident with some records in a firm
: and prop firm usually takes majority of their profits.
: Second reason is spiritual independence.
: But it turned out to be a bad change for a lot of them.
: I was going to see about rebate trading. This and arbitrage are the safest
: way to play.
: But most ppl in this game is arrogant to believe she/he is going to
: outperform others and win their money.
|
w******s
发帖数: 16209 | 60 hehe. I could see you are capable from very begining.
futures pool is bigger, but i guess a lot of tricks you have can't play
there.
【在 m********0 的大作中提到】
: I am capable of that too.
: but the thing is for individuals,
: scale up is hard, not only due to liquidity.
: one should go for other investment.
: There are a lot future traders making 10-100M
: turn to other trading vehicles
:
: within
|
|
|
m********0
发帖数: 2717 | 61 嗯，如果prop shop抽头不是很多的话，倒真不错。
毕竟他们提供两位数的leverage。
我朋友的朋友，有个在家做Automatic Trading就是因为觉得prop上缴太多。
另外一个拿20W出来自己做了一年的期货，做了3M。
你对prop的了解应该比我多。至于衍生物，我想本来就有可变的巨大的杠杆，
估计prop一般不会以这些为主。
business
in
【在 w******s 的大作中提到】
: I mainly talking about the case scalper mentioned above.
: for the case that someone trade for years and making stable 6 figures each
: year
: I could imagine what kinda way he use to do that kinda boring trade and I
: believe some leverage could help there.
: I have some friend who opend prop shop and I even looked into this business
: by myself, and I see the nowadays prop shop take only small portion of the
: gain and there is a lot of advantage. the prop shop biz mainly make money in
: tiny fraction of the wholesale commission difference and small portion of
: the trader's gain.
|
w******s
发帖数: 16209 | 62 有的时候是3位数的leverage。但很多限制。
each
I
the
money
of
【在 m********0 的大作中提到】
: 嗯，如果prop shop抽头不是很多的话，倒真不错。
: 毕竟他们提供两位数的leverage。
: 我朋友的朋友，有个在家做Automatic Trading就是因为觉得prop上缴太多。
: 另外一个拿20W出来自己做了一年的期货，做了3M。
: 你对prop的了解应该比我多。至于衍生物，我想本来就有可变的巨大的杠杆，
: 估计prop一般不会以这些为主。
:
: business
: in
|
m********0
发帖数: 2717 | 63 I am totally a beginner for future. My friend in CA just
met a CMDTY trader in China, temporarily hired by firms here.
Kinda a legend. I hope I would have the chance to learn from
experienced stars some day.
But since there is no definition of inside trading for future,
so I guess network overwhelm everything else.
【在 w******s 的大作中提到】
: hehe. I could see you are capable from very begining.
: futures pool is bigger, but i guess a lot of tricks you have can't play
: there.
|
w******s
发帖数: 16209 | 64 衍生物的确不用再杠杆了。
说起杠杆，刚出1cents 自动execution的时候
如果你的系统能判断gap up down
有的时候可以利用pinning， 高价位股票 atm trike 在OEday 来一把
这个是我琢磨出来的至高leverage了。
【在 m********0 的大作中提到】
: 嗯，如果prop shop抽头不是很多的话，倒真不错。
: 毕竟他们提供两位数的leverage。
: 我朋友的朋友，有个在家做Automatic Trading就是因为觉得prop上缴太多。
: 另外一个拿20W出来自己做了一年的期货，做了3M。
: 你对prop的了解应该比我多。至于衍生物，我想本来就有可变的巨大的杠杆，
: 估计prop一般不会以这些为主。
:
: business
: in
|
m********0
发帖数: 2717 | 65 这个trick我在书里面看到过，而且也在这个版上发过。
统计上确实是pinning之后的周一变动会比较wild。
但原书是写最后一刻买及其便宜的straddle，根据盘后来判断。
我没太实践过。
anyway，我觉得最大的杠杆是call/put盈利以后转spread锁利，
之后投资变成负数，无法定义leverage了。
【在 w******s 的大作中提到】
: 衍生物的确不用再杠杆了。
: 说起杠杆，刚出1cents 自动execution的时候
: 如果你的系统能判断gap up down
: 有的时候可以利用pinning， 高价位股票 atm trike 在OEday 来一把
: 这个是我琢磨出来的至高leverage了。
|
c**t
发帖数: 9197 | 66 there is only one way to survive/make big in DT.
There are many way to lose it though. |
w******s
发帖数: 16209 | 67 这个估计不会是书上的做法，这样得到在帐户上可以出现几千倍的股票价值leverage。
盈利后换成spread领成本跑profit的成本还是需要按照你的起始投入。好像以前这边的
摇女走单c然后换spread，然后又换成反向spread一个股票swing一轮吃出几米。
很多bfly 可以做到0 投入，但不容易上量，没有OEday的单向trick简单。
我觉得个体户trader 做自己帐户的好的还是得靠options。
【在 m********0 的大作中提到】
: 这个trick我在书里面看到过，而且也在这个版上发过。
: 统计上确实是pinning之后的周一变动会比较wild。
: 但原书是写最后一刻买及其便宜的straddle，根据盘后来判断。
: 我没太实践过。
: anyway，我觉得最大的杠杆是call/put盈利以后转spread锁利，
: 之后投资变成负数，无法定义leverage了。
|
w****k
发帖数: 6244 | 68 ysyn也消失很久了
是不是赚够了，归隐了？
【在 w******s 的大作中提到】
: 这个估计不会是书上的做法，这样得到在帐户上可以出现几千倍的股票价值leverage。
: 盈利后换成spread领成本跑profit的成本还是需要按照你的起始投入。好像以前这边的
: 摇女走单c然后换spread，然后又换成反向spread一个股票swing一轮吃出几米。
: 很多bfly 可以做到0 投入，但不容易上量，没有OEday的单向trick简单。
: 我觉得个体户trader 做自己帐户的好的还是得靠options。
|
w******s
发帖数: 16209 | 69 好像海归妻妾成群去了。
【在 w****k 的大作中提到】
: ysyn也消失很久了
: 是不是赚够了，归隐了？
|
a****b
发帖数: 3588 | |
|
|
w***w
发帖数: 6301 | 71 How much one can make in one day is not relevant to the topic.
One can make 8 digit in one day and also can lose 8 digit in one day, just
like to talk how much one can hit an big lotto is not something people
here are interested.
We are talking about consistency, and that should be considered on an annual
basis.
The success of traders are absurdly exaggerated.
I have very little trust on those story curculating on BBS about how 牛 those traders are doing.
If someone is really good, show me something about where market is going.
If you don't know where is market going, then the stocks you trade are risky because they are all impacted by market and I don't believe you can maintain consistency at a very high return. |
c**t
发帖数: 9197 | 72 all true.
except you do not even need to know where market is going to be a good
trader.
annual
those traders are doing.
risky because they are all impacted by market and I don't believe you can
maintain consistency at a very high return.
【在 w***w 的大作中提到】
: How much one can make in one day is not relevant to the topic.
: One can make 8 digit in one day and also can lose 8 digit in one day, just
: like to talk how much one can hit an big lotto is not something people
: here are interested.
: We are talking about consistency, and that should be considered on an annual
: basis.
: The success of traders are absurdly exaggerated.
: I have very little trust on those story curculating on BBS about how 牛 those traders are doing.
: If someone is really good, show me something about where market is going.
: If you don't know where is market going, then the stocks you trade are risky because they are all impacted by market and I don't believe you can maintain consistency at a very high return.
|
s*****r
发帖数: 1745 | 73 exactly, making consistent profit year and year day trading, does not matter
it is 100k account or 10000k account. My friend profiting averagely 6 digit
income over more than 10 yrs from trading "GE" and no one can deny he is a
successful trader although it is just 6 digit income a yr.
annual
those traders are doing.
risky because they are all impacted by market and I don't believe you can
maintain consistency at a very high return.
【在 w***w 的大作中提到】
: How much one can make in one day is not relevant to the topic.
: One can make 8 digit in one day and also can lose 8 digit in one day, just
: like to talk how much one can hit an big lotto is not something people
: here are interested.
: We are talking about consistency, and that should be considered on an annual
: basis.
: The success of traders are absurdly exaggerated.
: I have very little trust on those story curculating on BBS about how 牛 those traders are doing.
: If someone is really good, show me something about where market is going.
: If you don't know where is market going, then the stocks you trade are risky because they are all impacted by market and I don't believe you can maintain consistency at a very high return.
|
w******s
发帖数: 16209 | 74 day trader and trader are different ba?
just
【在 c**t 的大作中提到】
: all true.
: except you do not even need to know where market is going to be a good
: trader.
:
: annual
: those traders are doing.
: risky because they are all impacted by market and I don't believe you can
: maintain consistency at a very high return.
|
w***w
发帖数: 6301 | 75 Your friend's story sound real but his way of trading looks very
conservative since he didn't raise his wager as his capital grows.In another
word, his return is much smaller than those story about how good are traders doing.Yet his success sounds real.
matter
digit
a
【在 s*****r 的大作中提到】
: exactly, making consistent profit year and year day trading, does not matter
: it is 100k account or 10000k account. My friend profiting averagely 6 digit
: income over more than 10 yrs from trading "GE" and no one can deny he is a
: successful trader although it is just 6 digit income a yr.
:
: annual
: those traders are doing.
: risky because they are all impacted by market and I don't believe you can
: maintain consistency at a very high return.
|
w******s
发帖数: 16209 | 76 what 2020 post out is top trader on wall street , no on this board :D
but trading probably is not only something limited to someone's view
and it is maybe a poker game but not a lotto
there is also a lot of matrix for evaluate trading performance
annual
those traders are doing.
risky because they are all impacted by market and I don't believe you can
maintain consistency at a very high return.
【在 w***w 的大作中提到】
: How much one can make in one day is not relevant to the topic.
: One can make 8 digit in one day and also can lose 8 digit in one day, just
: like to talk how much one can hit an big lotto is not something people
: here are interested.
: We are talking about consistency, and that should be considered on an annual
: basis.
: The success of traders are absurdly exaggerated.
: I have very little trust on those story curculating on BBS about how 牛 those traders are doing.
: If someone is really good, show me something about where market is going.
: If you don't know where is market going, then the stocks you trade are risky because they are all impacted by market and I don't believe you can maintain consistency at a very high return.
|
S******t
发帖数: 8388 | 77 这个本来是警告的贴子,最后变成了诱惑贴.
哈哈哈哈.............. |
w******s
发帖数: 16209 | 78 珍惜生命，远离trading
【在 S******t 的大作中提到】
: 这个本来是警告的贴子,最后变成了诱惑贴.
: 哈哈哈哈..............
|
g********5
发帖数: 10335 | 79 这是科普篇
很多人对trading的认知还只停留在大陆教科书水平
动不动 赌场和吸毒
也有象村长这样的,吸了这么多,还每年tax 8位数.... lol
【在 S******t 的大作中提到】
: 这个本来是警告的贴子,最后变成了诱惑贴.
: 哈哈哈哈..............
|
w******s
发帖数: 16209 | 80 我亏过的估计是板上最多。
你google 的05年进去应该tax 8位吧。
【在 g********5 的大作中提到】
: 这是科普篇
: 很多人对trading的认知还只停留在大陆教科书水平
: 动不动 赌场和吸毒
: 也有象村长这样的,吸了这么多,还每年tax 8位数.... lol
|
|
|
s*****r
发帖数: 1745 | 81 Conservative may be his trading or investing style, I doubt a few people on
this board can do better than him.
And again, we are all average Joes here, no need to compare us to those big
shots trader on the street, right?
another
traders doing.Yet his success sounds real.
【在 w***w 的大作中提到】
: Your friend's story sound real but his way of trading looks very
: conservative since he didn't raise his wager as his capital grows.In another
: word, his return is much smaller than those story about how good are traders doing.Yet his success sounds real.
:
: matter
: digit
: a
|
w***w
发帖数: 6301 | 82 Daytrading can maintain consistency but not at a very high return.
Because:
1. liquidity: when your capital grows big you can't exit fast as needed.
2. Low margin is necessary to maintain consistency.If you use big margin, then your trading is too risky to maintain consistency.
The only trader that was doing good to maintain consistency at very high
return is Livermore, and even he failed at the end. And at his age the
market was much less complicated than today's market. |
x****7
发帖数: 895 | |
m********0
发帖数: 2717 | 84 很多post相当主观，没兴趣反驳了。
【在 x****7 的大作中提到】
: 开眼界。有科普意义。
|
w******s
发帖数: 16209 | 85 每个人经历见识不一样，看法会不同吧。
【在 m********0 的大作中提到】
: 很多post相当主观，没兴趣反驳了。
|
m********0
发帖数: 2717 | 86 这倒是,也没必要统一认识。
这行闷神发大财的小shop还是挺多。
过分强调成功者和失败率都没有意思。
Livermore作为consitent的例子不合适，那么远古的人了，还外婆过好几次。
【在 w******s 的大作中提到】
: 每个人经历见识不一样，看法会不同吧。
|
g********5
发帖数: 10335 | 87 很简单
适合做的继续
不适合的退出就好了
【在 m********0 的大作中提到】
: 这倒是,也没必要统一认识。
: 这行闷神发大财的小shop还是挺多。
: 过分强调成功者和失败率都没有意思。
: Livermore作为consitent的例子不合适，那么远古的人了，还外婆过好几次。
|
w***w
发帖数: 6301 | 88 Livermore时期有一种instrument对他的成功是很关键的。
就是如果有人要bet on a stock,broker可以提供很高的margin(10倍以上），而且并不限定你什么时候撤出。他主要就是靠这个赚大钱。
现在有option,但是抓时间一长，就给premium吃掉了。
而daytrading有高margin但必须当天撤出。
所以如果Livermore在今天也是不可能重复他的业绩。 |
w******s
发帖数: 16209 | 89 如果你觉得不可能战胜市场,那你肯定不能战胜市场.
有的人相信可以战胜市场,愿意去试图战胜市场,可能看起来很不合理,但最后战胜市场
的是这些人.
你如果不相信一些事情的可能性,那你就不可能做到.如果局限于自己看到的世界,只能
做个井底之蛙.
MQP,MHP,BSO,其实多数都有可学的地方.
短时间NX,精确预测点位,CONSTANT GAIN,准确预测大盘...,我都看到和相信都有人
在一些环境下能做到.
在bbs这里看到了什么新鲜的,让你惊讶的,别指望有什么人能"传授"你或专门来show 给
你,能知道这个可能性自己琢磨就够了. |
a****b
发帖数: 3588 | 90 ding cz
【在 w******s 的大作中提到】
: 如果你觉得不可能战胜市场,那你肯定不能战胜市场.
: 有的人相信可以战胜市场,愿意去试图战胜市场,可能看起来很不合理,但最后战胜市场
: 的是这些人.
: 你如果不相信一些事情的可能性,那你就不可能做到.如果局限于自己看到的世界,只能
: 做个井底之蛙.
: MQP,MHP,BSO,其实多数都有可学的地方.
: 短时间NX,精确预测点位,CONSTANT GAIN,准确预测大盘...,我都看到和相信都有人
: 在一些环境下能做到.
: 在bbs这里看到了什么新鲜的,让你惊讶的,别指望有什么人能"传授"你或专门来show 给
: 你,能知道这个可能性自己琢磨就够了.
|
|
|
H********7
发帖数: 2369 | 91 学习了
【在 w******s 的大作中提到】
: 如果你觉得不可能战胜市场,那你肯定不能战胜市场.
: 有的人相信可以战胜市场,愿意去试图战胜市场,可能看起来很不合理,但最后战胜市场
: 的是这些人.
: 你如果不相信一些事情的可能性,那你就不可能做到.如果局限于自己看到的世界,只能
: 做个井底之蛙.
: MQP,MHP,BSO,其实多数都有可学的地方.
: 短时间NX,精确预测点位,CONSTANT GAIN,准确预测大盘...,我都看到和相信都有人
: 在一些环境下能做到.
: 在bbs这里看到了什么新鲜的,让你惊讶的,别指望有什么人能"传授"你或专门来show 给
: 你,能知道这个可能性自己琢磨就够了.
|
w****k
发帖数: 6244 | 92 说得好
【在 w******s 的大作中提到】
: 如果你觉得不可能战胜市场,那你肯定不能战胜市场.
: 有的人相信可以战胜市场,愿意去试图战胜市场,可能看起来很不合理,但最后战胜市场
: 的是这些人.
: 你如果不相信一些事情的可能性,那你就不可能做到.如果局限于自己看到的世界,只能
: 做个井底之蛙.
: MQP,MHP,BSO,其实多数都有可学的地方.
: 短时间NX,精确预测点位,CONSTANT GAIN,准确预测大盘...,我都看到和相信都有人
: 在一些环境下能做到.
: 在bbs这里看到了什么新鲜的,让你惊讶的,别指望有什么人能"传授"你或专门来show 给
: 你,能知道这个可能性自己琢磨就够了.
|
w***w
发帖数: 6301 | 93 战胜市场是一回事。从市场赚大钱是另一回事。像前面说的每年赚6 figure也是战胜市
场。但是有的传说几个月一年翻几十倍，那个就算有也是等于中lotto,没有
consistency。这个很简单，他要是有consistency，很快就超过比尔盖茨了。
说实话，我虽然是井底之蛙，可是我在BBS那么多年，就没有看到过对市场把握大道能有consistency地赚大钱的。就是把这个标准再降低几个档次的都没见过。
【在 w******s 的大作中提到】
: 如果你觉得不可能战胜市场,那你肯定不能战胜市场.
: 有的人相信可以战胜市场,愿意去试图战胜市场,可能看起来很不合理,但最后战胜市场
: 的是这些人.
: 你如果不相信一些事情的可能性,那你就不可能做到.如果局限于自己看到的世界,只能
: 做个井底之蛙.
: MQP,MHP,BSO,其实多数都有可学的地方.
: 短时间NX,精确预测点位,CONSTANT GAIN,准确预测大盘...,我都看到和相信都有人
: 在一些环境下能做到.
: 在bbs这里看到了什么新鲜的,让你惊讶的,别指望有什么人能"传授"你或专门来show 给
: 你,能知道这个可能性自己琢磨就够了.
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w******s
发帖数: 16209 | 94 你不用去扩展概念那么快。
几个月到几个M的在一定的环境下的可能性和持续一直翻几十倍不是一个意思。
都是特定时期，特定机会。
这里动不动就把人拿去比巴菲特比比尔盖茨，比madoff的逻辑不对的。
【在 w***w 的大作中提到】
: 战胜市场是一回事。从市场赚大钱是另一回事。像前面说的每年赚6 figure也是战胜市
: 场。但是有的传说几个月一年翻几十倍，那个就算有也是等于中lotto,没有
: consistency。这个很简单，他要是有consistency，很快就超过比尔盖茨了。
: 说实话，我虽然是井底之蛙，可是我在BBS那么多年，就没有看到过对市场把握大道能有consistency地赚大钱的。就是把这个标准再降低几个档次的都没见过。
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w****k
发帖数: 6244 | 95 用一定的资金consistently的赚一定的钱
和不停的compound是两回事
能有consistency地赚大钱的。就是把这个标准再降低几个档次的都没见过。
【在 w***w 的大作中提到】
: 战胜市场是一回事。从市场赚大钱是另一回事。像前面说的每年赚6 figure也是战胜市
: 场。但是有的传说几个月一年翻几十倍，那个就算有也是等于中lotto,没有
: consistency。这个很简单，他要是有consistency，很快就超过比尔盖茨了。
: 说实话，我虽然是井底之蛙，可是我在BBS那么多年，就没有看到过对市场把握大道能有consistency地赚大钱的。就是把这个标准再降低几个档次的都没见过。
|
w***w
发帖数: 6301 | 96 你说的那个不是环境，而是概率。
像中lotto一样的小概率。
你要是相信需要等什么机缘才能发大财的话，我也说服不了你。
但实际上那个就是运气。而运气是没有consistency的。
【在 w******s 的大作中提到】
: 你不用去扩展概念那么快。
: 几个月到几个M的在一定的环境下的可能性和持续一直翻几十倍不是一个意思。
: 都是特定时期，特定机会。
: 这里动不动就把人拿去比巴菲特比比尔盖茨，比madoff的逻辑不对的。
|
c**t
发帖数: 9197 | 97 I thought there is something called "edge"
which makes "consistency" out of "运气". |
x****7
发帖数: 895 | 98 赞村长认真。
【在 w******s 的大作中提到】
: 如果你觉得不可能战胜市场,那你肯定不能战胜市场.
: 有的人相信可以战胜市场,愿意去试图战胜市场,可能看起来很不合理,但最后战胜市场
: 的是这些人.
: 你如果不相信一些事情的可能性,那你就不可能做到.如果局限于自己看到的世界,只能
: 做个井底之蛙.
: MQP,MHP,BSO,其实多数都有可学的地方.
: 短时间NX,精确预测点位,CONSTANT GAIN,准确预测大盘...,我都看到和相信都有人
: 在一些环境下能做到.
: 在bbs这里看到了什么新鲜的,让你惊讶的,别指望有什么人能"传授"你或专门来show 给
: 你,能知道这个可能性自己琢磨就够了.
|
g********5
发帖数: 10335 | 99 Can not agree more.
不相信能战胜市场=把股市当成赌场=把自己当送钱大队长
相信可以战胜市场=把股市当游乐场=有机会把股市当提款机
大部分普通人,因为身边没有,或没有接触过打败市场的牛人
所以,不愿相信,也不敢相信,确实存在村长说的这样一部分人
【在 w******s 的大作中提到】
: 如果你觉得不可能战胜市场,那你肯定不能战胜市场.
: 有的人相信可以战胜市场,愿意去试图战胜市场,可能看起来很不合理,但最后战胜市场
: 的是这些人.
: 你如果不相信一些事情的可能性,那你就不可能做到.如果局限于自己看到的世界,只能
: 做个井底之蛙.
: MQP,MHP,BSO,其实多数都有可学的地方.
: 短时间NX,精确预测点位,CONSTANT GAIN,准确预测大盘...,我都看到和相信都有人
: 在一些环境下能做到.
: 在bbs这里看到了什么新鲜的,让你惊讶的,别指望有什么人能"传授"你或专门来show 给
: 你,能知道这个可能性自己琢磨就够了.
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