r****c
发帖数: 2585 | |
r******d
发帖数: 1879 | 2 Tip:
California legislature has been controlled by the Democratic Party since
1970 except during 1995 and 1996.
Prop 25:
The goal of the proposal is to end the current requirement in the state that
two-thirds of the members of the California State Legislature must vote in
favor of the state's budget in order for a budget to be enacted. It also
requires state legislators to forfeit their pay in years where they have
failed to pass a budget in a timely fashion. |
m*******i
发帖数: 8711 | |
m*******i
发帖数: 8711 | 4 Simple majority will make budget out of control. |
y****t
发帖数: 121 | |
B******e
发帖数: 5730 | 6 我提个问
为啥在别州不会有 budget out of control 的问题？
加州有了2/3多数通过预算的法律后，
结果是，年头好时，预算还是连年上涨
一般人开始都会以为2/3多数通过的法案，比较好
其实错了
2/3多数通过，给少数机会挟制大多数
结果是，预算充满着，利益少数地方的项目
加州这几年预算，是被2/3多数通过害惨了
【在 m*******i 的大作中提到】
: Simple majority will make budget out of control.
|
h*******a
发帖数: 573 | 7 I am inclined to vote Yes. 2/3 majority has proven to be a disaster for this
state. I also heard that the measure would still require 2/3 major for tax
increases. However, I need to do more research before making up my mind. |
m*****y
发帖数: 2424 | 8 The yes on 25 ad was paid for by multiple unions, that's not a good sign. |
m*******i
发帖数: 8711 | 9 tax increase is not the only thing you should pay attention too.
It is about which programs to fund and which programs to cut. With simple
majority, dems can push through
all those entitlement program and we have to pay for them years later.
this
tax
【在 h*******a 的大作中提到】
: I am inclined to vote Yes. 2/3 majority has proven to be a disaster for this
: state. I also heard that the measure would still require 2/3 major for tax
: increases. However, I need to do more research before making up my mind.
|
m*****e
发帖数: 4193 | 10
They do, including those with simple majority law.
【在 B******e 的大作中提到】
: 我提个问
: 为啥在别州不会有 budget out of control 的问题？
: 加州有了2/3多数通过预算的法律后，
: 结果是，年头好时，预算还是连年上涨
: 一般人开始都会以为2/3多数通过的法案，比较好
: 其实错了
: 2/3多数通过，给少数机会挟制大多数
: 结果是，预算充满着，利益少数地方的项目
: 加州这几年预算，是被2/3多数通过害惨了
|
|
|
h*******a
发帖数: 573 | 11 2/3 majority has made balancing the budget almost impossible. State
employees have to receive IOU's before a budget is reached, and therefore
it's very understandable that they would support measures to balance the
budget. However, I don't think it's something we should consider negative.
IOU's incur interests and increase budget costs. A timely and balanced
budget clearly benefits the state as a whole. There are times when the
unions' interests are also to our interests. No need to cry foul on
【在 m*****y 的大作中提到】
: The yes on 25 ad was paid for by multiple unions, that's not a good sign.
|
w******y
发帖数: 8040 | 12 一句话， 坚决反对加州民主党的任何加税企图
要在萌芽时代就扼杀之
【在 m*******i 的大作中提到】
: tax increase is not the only thing you should pay attention too.
: It is about which programs to fund and which programs to cut. With simple
: majority, dems can push through
: all those entitlement program and we have to pay for them years later.
:
: this
: tax
|
h*******a
发帖数: 573 | 13 I think simple majority would provide enough checks and balance, with two
main parties always at cats and dogs with each other. 2/3 majority has
left even the most fundamental programs go without funds in this state.
It's a law that proves to fail this state.
simple
【在 m*******i 的大作中提到】
: tax increase is not the only thing you should pay attention too.
: It is about which programs to fund and which programs to cut. With simple
: majority, dems can push through
: all those entitlement program and we have to pay for them years later.
:
: this
: tax
|
B******e
发帖数: 5730 | 14 Prop 25 是州预算2/3通过，和加税没关系， |
m*******n
发帖数: 338 | 15 what is the current ratio of democratic/republic, if democratic is way pass
1/2, then this is not a good bill to vote yes.
I incline to vote No, otherwise the democratic can pass a budget with
increased illegal immigrate support and cut public school.
The budge impasse can be solved when either side make consessions more. |
m*******i
发帖数: 8711 | 16 simply majority to provide check and balance? Tell me how.
【在 h*******a 的大作中提到】
: I think simple majority would provide enough checks and balance, with two
: main parties always at cats and dogs with each other. 2/3 majority has
: left even the most fundamental programs go without funds in this state.
: It's a law that proves to fail this state.
:
: simple
|
m*******i
发帖数: 8711 | 17 不是只有income tax是苛捐杂税。去看看哪次budget里没有加这费，加那税的。再借一大堆债。这些钱都是天上掉下来
的？eventually tax payers will have to pay those.
With simple majority, there is no way to cut any programs.
【在 B******e 的大作中提到】
: Prop 25 是州预算2/3通过，和加税没关系，
|
G****s
发帖数: 3523 | 18 seems like everyone is crystal clear on what to do.
that's right, vote No on 25.
It's a shame CA DEMs want to destroy check and balance. |
m*******i
发帖数: 8711 | 19 those union leaders want to keep writing fat checks to themselves.
【在 G****s 的大作中提到】
: seems like everyone is crystal clear on what to do.
: that's right, vote No on 25.
: It's a shame CA DEMs want to destroy check and balance.
|
h******n
发帖数: 106 | 20 California State Assembly:
Democratic Party: 48 (60%)
Republican Party: 32 (40%)
California State Senate:
Democratic Party: 25 (62.5%)
Republican Party: 15 (37.5%)
Prop 25 is supported by Democratic Party and Unions.
pass
【在 m*******n 的大作中提到】
: what is the current ratio of democratic/republic, if democratic is way pass
: 1/2, then this is not a good bill to vote yes.
: I incline to vote No, otherwise the democratic can pass a budget with
: increased illegal immigrate support and cut public school.
: The budge impasse can be solved when either side make consessions more.
|
|
|
f*****y
发帖数: 204 | 21 budget deadlock does no one good.
【在 r****c 的大作中提到】
: 大家反对还是支持？具体理由呢
|
G****s
发帖数: 3523 | 22 you need to look into what was reason of the deadlock.
spending into a recession only on unions and illeal immgrants is not the way.
【在 f*****y 的大作中提到】
: budget deadlock does no one good.
|
b********t
发帖数: 8181 | |
n****n
发帖数: 568 | 24 平衡预算的关键还是在于预算的内容,而不是随随便便通过一个预算案就算了了.在现在
加州参院和众院民主党都占绝大多数的情况下,这个Prop 25如果通过就相当于给了民主
党更多的权力,如果再加上一个民主党州长,基本上他们就可以在财政上为所欲为了,广
大的硅工就完全成为案上的肉,任人宰了.如果prop 25没有通过,共和党还可以搅搅局,
这对我们还好事情.所以prop 25 一定要vote no.
2
【在 h*******a 的大作中提到】
: 2/3 majority has made balancing the budget almost impossible. State
: employees have to receive IOU's before a budget is reached, and therefore
: it's very understandable that they would support measures to balance the
: budget. However, I don't think it's something we should consider negative.
: IOU's incur interests and increase budget costs. A timely and balanced
: budget clearly benefits the state as a whole. There are times when the
: unions' interests are also to our interests. No need to cry foul on
|
f*****y
发帖数: 204 | 25 over democracy leads to extreme inefficiency and nothing can be done at the
end. Year after year budget gridlock
serves California no good. IOU is expensive and California has the lowest
bond rating of 50 states. The ultimate
victims are us, the tax payers. I don't admire china's authoritarian
efficiency but 2/3 majority is obviously a road to
dysfunction.
You don't like certain spending. Vote down the representatives who supported
the spending.
way.
【在 G****s 的大作中提到】
: you need to look into what was reason of the deadlock.
: spending into a recession only on unions and illeal immgrants is not the way.
|
n****n
发帖数: 568 | 26 要是真能Vote down the representatives who supported the spending,prop 25也就
没人关心了.毕竟加州是一个蓝州.现在大家关注的就是在不能Vote down那些家伙的前
提下,怎样最大可能维护自己的利益.IOU 和加州的信用等级差的根本原因是因为over
spending,不是因为每年的预算案通过的难度.Prop 25给了哪些support spending的人
更大的权力,和议会里吵来吵去相比,我们tax payer受的伤害更大更深.如果要在over
spending和disfunction之间选一,我宁愿加州的预算案通不过.所以请vote no on prop
25.
the
supported |
y****t
发帖数: 10233 | 27 you do have the gut to bring up iou issues.
what those bastards gonna do to solve iou issues?
nothing but raising tax
from this perspective, the more inefficient and dysfunctional it could be,
the sheeple like us will be more happy, since government is the biggest
effin fat tony of all kind.
yes, i agree with you that we should vote all bums out.
and no, you dont need to have super mojority legislation to achieve this.
btw, are you one of those parasites live on our tax dollar?
the
supported
【在 f*****y 的大作中提到】
: over democracy leads to extreme inefficiency and nothing can be done at the
: end. Year after year budget gridlock
: serves California no good. IOU is expensive and California has the lowest
: bond rating of 50 states. The ultimate
: victims are us, the tax payers. I don't admire china's authoritarian
: efficiency but 2/3 majority is obviously a road to
: dysfunction.
: You don't like certain spending. Vote down the representatives who supported
: the spending.
:
|
f*****y
发帖数: 204 | 28 you are feeling too good. my tax dollar can be more than your salary. go
imagine.
【在 y****t 的大作中提到】
: you do have the gut to bring up iou issues.
: what those bastards gonna do to solve iou issues?
: nothing but raising tax
: from this perspective, the more inefficient and dysfunctional it could be,
: the sheeple like us will be more happy, since government is the biggest
: effin fat tony of all kind.
: yes, i agree with you that we should vote all bums out.
: and no, you dont need to have super mojority legislation to achieve this.
: btw, are you one of those parasites live on our tax dollar?
:
|
G****s
发帖数: 3523 | 29 the question is who hijacks whom?
DEMs has majority, just a little under 2/3. Who will benefit from this bill?
Unions are behind this bill. Who will benefit from it?
A while ago, DEMs said they don't want to pass a budget before november
election, why? becuase they think they could lose votes if voters see their
budget.
Now you put ti together. DEMs know their budget will not be liked. They know
they will lose seats in this election. They know they will still hold more
than 50% in congress.
And here comes a bill, that says whoever has over 50% seats will have the
authority to pass their version of the state budget.
I will NEVER vote yes on that.
NO on 25. no brainer.
the
supported
【在 f*****y 的大作中提到】
: over democracy leads to extreme inefficiency and nothing can be done at the
: end. Year after year budget gridlock
: serves California no good. IOU is expensive and California has the lowest
: bond rating of 50 states. The ultimate
: victims are us, the tax payers. I don't admire china's authoritarian
: efficiency but 2/3 majority is obviously a road to
: dysfunction.
: You don't like certain spending. Vote down the representatives who supported
: the spending.
:
|
G****s
发帖数: 3523 | 30 mmm... if your tax is more than engineer's salary, you are probably in some
kind of business. maybe you can benefit from having a budget no matter how
it looks like, comparing to no budget at all.
anyway, that's not true for engineers.
typical engineers should still vote NO on 25
【在 f*****y 的大作中提到】
: you are feeling too good. my tax dollar can be more than your salary. go
: imagine.
|
|
|
y****t
发帖数: 10233 | 31 听他胡扯.
i am 100% sure, those who have their tax more than my income does not come
to this bbs.
上次那个谁,冒充有钱人,一路obama挺下来,结果一贴,amt exemption是多少都搞不清楚.
some
【在 G****s 的大作中提到】
: mmm... if your tax is more than engineer's salary, you are probably in some
: kind of business. maybe you can benefit from having a budget no matter how
: it looks like, comparing to no budget at all.
: anyway, that's not true for engineers.
: typical engineers should still vote NO on 25
|
m*******i
发帖数: 8711 | 32 maybe he makes too much money to even trigger AMT
楚.
【在 y****t 的大作中提到】
: 听他胡扯.
: i am 100% sure, those who have their tax more than my income does not come
: to this bbs.
: 上次那个谁,冒充有钱人,一路obama挺下来,结果一贴,amt exemption是多少都搞不清楚.
:
: some
|
y****t
发帖数: 10233 | 33 那obama的加税,他早跳脚了.
【在 m*******i 的大作中提到】
: maybe he makes too much money to even trigger AMT
:
: 楚.
|
B******e
发帖数: 5730 | 34 嘿嘿
加税会跳脚的是都是有点钱，实际没钱的人
你什么时候看到有钱人出来反对加税？
人家是不跳脚的，有啥用？
找几个官员，议员，吃吃饭，就搞定了
【在 y****t 的大作中提到】
: 那obama的加税,他早跳脚了.
|
B******e
发帖数: 5730 | 35 民主本来就是少数服从多数
民主当敢乱开支票，就要负担责任
这些州议员要负担风险，会被选民抛弃
现在要2/3多数通过
两党必须要合作，反而造成责任不明
两党互相推卸责任，指责对方乱开支票
2/3多数通过预算
是加州州民提案害死自己的最好例子 |
h*******a
发帖数: 573 | 36 If you follow what's been going on with the budget crisis lately,
Republicans are the ones who want to cut funding for public schools, while
Democrats refuse to concede. As a matter of fact, Republicans have been
using filibuster to block almost every single measure proposed by the
Democrats, regardless of the merits of the bill and the costs associated
with blocking the bill. When you have a major political party acting as
irresponsible as the Republicans are now, 2/3 major is a disaster, and a
simple majority should take place to allow governance to function
effectively.
pass
【在 m*******n 的大作中提到】
: what is the current ratio of democratic/republic, if democratic is way pass
: 1/2, then this is not a good bill to vote yes.
: I incline to vote No, otherwise the democratic can pass a budget with
: increased illegal immigrate support and cut public school.
: The budge impasse can be solved when either side make consessions more.
|
G****s
发帖数: 3523 | 37 How can you determine that DEM's proposals were reasonable? With everyone
else losing jobs, cutting salary, 0 bonus, no raise at all, the unions
continue to have raises and good pension. how can you call that money well
spent?
and don't forget the earmarks. many times a bill was blocked down because of
its earmarks not the bill itself.
And if you look at hostory of both parties, does either of them act
reasonably when they hold absolute majority (over 2/3)? Neither.
Simple majority for california is like a road straight to hell.
【在 h*******a 的大作中提到】
: If you follow what's been going on with the budget crisis lately,
: Republicans are the ones who want to cut funding for public schools, while
: Democrats refuse to concede. As a matter of fact, Republicans have been
: using filibuster to block almost every single measure proposed by the
: Democrats, regardless of the merits of the bill and the costs associated
: with blocking the bill. When you have a major political party acting as
: irresponsible as the Republicans are now, 2/3 major is a disaster, and a
: simple majority should take place to allow governance to function
: effectively.
:
|
B******e
发帖数: 5730 | 38 simple majority 都没有 check and balance
如何保证 2/3 majority 有 check and balance?
干脆就 4/5 majority, 100% 全部赞成，不更好？
如果加州多数选民，赞成民主党这样干
不该让他们多数做主么？
有问题，也是他们负责啊 |
m*****y
发帖数: 2424 | 39 One of the essences of democracy is to protect the minority's right and
interest, and in california's case, the minority
that pays the tax to support the majority.
【在 B******e 的大作中提到】
: simple majority 都没有 check and balance
: 如何保证 2/3 majority 有 check and balance?
: 干脆就 4/5 majority, 100% 全部赞成，不更好？
: 如果加州多数选民，赞成民主党这样干
: 不该让他们多数做主么？
: 有问题，也是他们负责啊
|
r****c
发帖数: 2585 | 40 To BlackTee, hydragenea etc
看来你们真是铁杆啊
一个马上说不影响tax,一个马上说要做research.做下research真的那么难么
http://ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.php/California_2010_ballot_propositions
http://www.sacbee.com/2010/09/24/3052719/adwatch-pro-prop25-ad-misleading.html
很清楚，这个法案有意误导。而且广告里面50m一天的说法，连小学生都骗不了，19B/
365=52,054,794.难道通过法案加州就没有deficit么。所以说即使大家各自的实际情况
决定立场，也不要当这里的硅公硅婆都是笨蛋好糊弄的。
【在 r****c 的大作中提到】
: 大家反对还是支持？具体理由呢
|
|
|
p**m
发帖数: 3876 | 41 Why do you computer / electrical engineers / coders in the bay area never
considered unionizing?
【在 G****s 的大作中提到】
: How can you determine that DEM's proposals were reasonable? With everyone
: else losing jobs, cutting salary, 0 bonus, no raise at all, the unions
: continue to have raises and good pension. how can you call that money well
: spent?
: and don't forget the earmarks. many times a bill was blocked down because of
: its earmarks not the bill itself.
: And if you look at hostory of both parties, does either of them act
: reasonably when they hold absolute majority (over 2/3)? Neither.
: Simple majority for california is like a road straight to hell.
|
y****t
发帖数: 10233 | 42 就好象当初有人问你,为什么不去吃共产大锅饭?
because you are to be dead even faster in this way.
【在 p**m 的大作中提到】
: Why do you computer / electrical engineers / coders in the bay area never
: considered unionizing?
|
p**m
发帖数: 3876 | 43 you are such an union hating republican =D may all California 硅工硅婆
unite and keep people like you out of Californian politics
【在 y****t 的大作中提到】
: 就好象当初有人问你,为什么不去吃共产大锅饭?
: because you are to be dead even faster in this way.
|
y****t
发帖数: 10233 | 44 how many times you guys want to smear me as a republican.
i am no republican, i am an independent.
if silicon engineers try to be unionized, the first thing company gonna do
is to shift the whole thing, every single job, out of bay area.
【在 p**m 的大作中提到】
: you are such an union hating republican =D may all California 硅工硅婆
: unite and keep people like you out of Californian politics
|
v******n
发帖数: 595 | 45 我怎么记得PROP25是，通过BUDGET只要半数，而任何关于TAX的还是要2/3多数。
难道我理解错了？
that
in
【在 r******d 的大作中提到】
: Tip:
: California legislature has been controlled by the Democratic Party since
: 1970 except during 1995 and 1996.
: Prop 25:
: The goal of the proposal is to end the current requirement in the state that
: two-thirds of the members of the California State Legislature must vote in
: favor of the state's budget in order for a budget to be enacted. It also
: requires state legislators to forfeit their pay in years where they have
: failed to pass a budget in a timely fashion.
|
y****t
发帖数: 10233 | 46 nowdays, tax has a new name called fees.
【在 v******n 的大作中提到】
: 我怎么记得PROP25是，通过BUDGET只要半数，而任何关于TAX的还是要2/3多数。
: 难道我理解错了？
:
: that
: in
|
G****s
发帖数: 3523 | 47 that's just a political wording game.
how to create fund without taxing? 1. issuing bond, 2. borrowing, 3.
increase fees and fines, 4. increase blahblah.... all end up pulling from
our pockets.
We are engineers. Do you believe such thing as creating fund without a tax
increase?
【在 v******n 的大作中提到】
: 我怎么记得PROP25是，通过BUDGET只要半数，而任何关于TAX的还是要2/3多数。
: 难道我理解错了？
:
: that
: in
|
G****s
发帖数: 3523 | 48 That does not solve the problem. The problem is government overspending. How
can you resolve that by another union?
the best your idea would do is pushing california off the cliff, while
pocketing a good short-term profit before falling down.
But I think I now understand unions. Many union members may think like that
- it's hopeless and let's get whatever we can before it sinks.
【在 p**m 的大作中提到】
: you are such an union hating republican =D may all California 硅工硅婆
: unite and keep people like you out of Californian politics
|
p**m
发帖数: 3876 | 49 If shifting the whole operation out would provide cost saving, they would
have done it already.
【在 y****t 的大作中提到】
: how many times you guys want to smear me as a republican.
: i am no republican, i am an independent.
: if silicon engineers try to be unionized, the first thing company gonna do
: is to shift the whole thing, every single job, out of bay area.
|
y****t
发帖数: 10233 | 50 what r u talking about?
ain't they doing this right now? If you put a big U on top of your head,
they gonna do it even faster. That's what i said, you die even quicker.
you are not silicon engineer, ain't u?
【在 p**m 的大作中提到】
: If shifting the whole operation out would provide cost saving, they would
: have done it already.
|
|
|
y****t
发帖数: 10233 | 51 嘿嘿...
我老爹要是能花钱给我买个飞机就好了.
【在 y****t 的大作中提到】
: what r u talking about?
: ain't they doing this right now? If you put a big U on top of your head,
: they gonna do it even faster. That's what i said, you die even quicker.
: you are not silicon engineer, ain't u?
|
k*******n
发帖数: 8891 | |
p**m
发帖数: 3876 | 53 the state is doomed to failure because of the economical structure. better
grab what you can and run
【在 y****t 的大作中提到】
: what r u talking about?
: ain't they doing this right now? If you put a big U on top of your head,
: they gonna do it even faster. That's what i said, you die even quicker.
: you are not silicon engineer, ain't u?
|
p**m
发帖数: 3876 | 54 too much information. if you have a problem with your dad, you don't need
to share it on the forum. go talk to him directly.
【在 y****t 的大作中提到】
: 嘿嘿...
: 我老爹要是能花钱给我买个飞机就好了.
|
y****t
发帖数: 10233 | 55 because there are so many corrupted effin communist bastards/associates and
their decendents wasting our tax money here in united states.
are you one of them?
better
【在 p**m 的大作中提到】
: too much information. if you have a problem with your dad, you don't need
: to share it on the forum. go talk to him directly.
|
y****t
发帖数: 10233 | 56 i have no problem with my dad.
i have problem with your dad.
【在 p**m 的大作中提到】
: too much information. if you have a problem with your dad, you don't need
: to share it on the forum. go talk to him directly.
|
G****s
发帖数: 3523 | 57 "better grab what you can and run"
seems I was right. there are so many people thinking like that.
probably a lot of them are in unions.
better
【在 p**m 的大作中提到】
: too much information. if you have a problem with your dad, you don't need
: to share it on the forum. go talk to him directly.
|
t****u
发帖数: 8614 | 58 看人数，如果DEM已经占了66%以上了，Yes.如果没有，No。
【在 r****c 的大作中提到】
: 大家反对还是支持？具体理由呢
|
G****s
发帖数: 3523 | 59 I think it's NO no matter what.
DEM will lose seat some time in the future. 25 will give them the fearless
weapon so they don't care about losing seats anymore.
【在 t****u 的大作中提到】
: 看人数，如果DEM已经占了66%以上了，Yes.如果没有，No。
|
h*******a
发帖数: 573 | 60 Thanks for sharing the links. I will vote "YES" after reading the prop
on ballot pedia.
I actually got a useful hint from the opponent arguments, "On August 5,
2010, a Superior Court judge ruled that Prop 25 did not maintain the
2/3rds requirement to raise taxes, but the Superior Court's decision was
reversed by the California 3rd District Court of Appeals on August 9,
2010, allowing the ballot language to remain intact." It seems the 2/3
majority requirement for tax increase is for real.
I also like the proposal that "in any year in which the budget bill is
not passed by the Legislature by midnight on June 15, there shall be no
appropriation from the current budget or future budget to pay any salary
or reimbursement for travel or living expenses for Members of the
Legislature during any regular or special session for the period from
midnight on June 15 until the day that the budget bill is presented to
the Governor. No salary or reimbursement for travel or living expenses
forfeited pursuant to this subdivision shall be paid retroactively."
http://ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.php/California_2010_ballot_proposition
s
misleading.html
【在 r****c 的大作中提到】
: To BlackTee, hydragenea etc
: 看来你们真是铁杆啊
: 一个马上说不影响tax,一个马上说要做research.做下research真的那么难么
: http://ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.php/California_2010_ballot_propositions
: http://www.sacbee.com/2010/09/24/3052719/adwatch-pro-prop25-ad-misleading.html
: 很清楚，这个法案有意误导。而且广告里面50m一天的说法，连小学生都骗不了，19B/
: 365=52,054,794.难道通过法案加州就没有deficit么。所以说即使大家各自的实际情况
: 决定立场，也不要当这里的硅公硅婆都是笨蛋好糊弄的。
|
|
|
G****s
发帖数: 3523 | 61 just think where does money come from?
ok no raise taxes, but let's borrow. there is not much difference.
The solution is control spending, not passing any budget DEM has on the
table.
With simple majority, everything passes.
【在 h*******a 的大作中提到】
: Thanks for sharing the links. I will vote "YES" after reading the prop
: on ballot pedia.
: I actually got a useful hint from the opponent arguments, "On August 5,
: 2010, a Superior Court judge ruled that Prop 25 did not maintain the
: 2/3rds requirement to raise taxes, but the Superior Court's decision was
: reversed by the California 3rd District Court of Appeals on August 9,
: 2010, allowing the ballot language to remain intact." It seems the 2/3
: majority requirement for tax increase is for real.
: I also like the proposal that "in any year in which the budget bill is
: not passed by the Legislature by midnight on June 15, there shall be no
|
r****c
发帖数: 2585 | 62 拜托啊，是不是支持民主党的铁杆逻辑都有问题啊，人家说了superior court judge认
为这个prop的语言有误导，要求修改。但是California 3rd District Court of
Appeals说这个语言没有问题，误导的话是那些人比较愚蠢，不违法。
所以法律界都对这个没有异议：把tax law bind into budget can pass with only
simply majority.
不知道你是真不懂还是装的
【在 h*******a 的大作中提到】
: Thanks for sharing the links. I will vote "YES" after reading the prop
: on ballot pedia.
: I actually got a useful hint from the opponent arguments, "On August 5,
: 2010, a Superior Court judge ruled that Prop 25 did not maintain the
: 2/3rds requirement to raise taxes, but the Superior Court's decision was
: reversed by the California 3rd District Court of Appeals on August 9,
: 2010, allowing the ballot language to remain intact." It seems the 2/3
: majority requirement for tax increase is for real.
: I also like the proposal that "in any year in which the budget bill is
: not passed by the Legislature by midnight on June 15, there shall be no
|
B******e
发帖数: 5730 | 63 没投过票的，不知道2/3 majority
是被少数几个人挟持法案的原因 |
G****s
发帖数: 3523 | 64 that's not the point. the point is the money has to come from somewhere -
tax payers.
doesnt' matter if they raise taxes or raise fees.
the budget is the problem, high tax is the result.
【在 r****c 的大作中提到】
: 拜托啊，是不是支持民主党的铁杆逻辑都有问题啊，人家说了superior court judge认
: 为这个prop的语言有误导，要求修改。但是California 3rd District Court of
: Appeals说这个语言没有问题，误导的话是那些人比较愚蠢，不违法。
: 所以法律界都对这个没有异议：把tax law bind into budget can pass with only
: simply majority.
: 不知道你是真不懂还是装的
|
r****c
发帖数: 2585 | 65 那联合国是不是该听中国印度的了
【在 B******e 的大作中提到】
: 没投过票的，不知道2/3 majority
: 是被少数几个人挟持法案的原因
|
b*****g
发帖数: 983 | 66 加州政府越没效率，对硅工越好
政府如果一旦有了效率，就会高效加税，高效给非法移民劳保，高效给各界支持他的同
仁送钱
所以答案太显然了
加州必须死而复生，让他发IOU，让他破产。最后那些pension作废了，union破产了，
共和党执政了，人民才可以得到解放。
【在 r****c 的大作中提到】
: 大家反对还是支持？具体理由呢
|
y****t
发帖数: 10233 | 67 check n balance,...
check n balance.
gop is as disgusting as democraps. nobody should dominate. sheeple should
figure out ways to let them fight, which is the best senario for sheeple.
【在 b*****g 的大作中提到】
: 加州政府越没效率，对硅工越好
: 政府如果一旦有了效率，就会高效加税，高效给非法移民劳保，高效给各界支持他的同
: 仁送钱
: 所以答案太显然了
: 加州必须死而复生，让他发IOU，让他破产。最后那些pension作废了，union破产了，
: 共和党执政了，人民才可以得到解放。
|
b*****g
发帖数: 983 | 68 在民主党州,check and balance的唯一办法就是全力支持共和党
等到共和党绝对优势时，再换态度不迟
【在 y****t 的大作中提到】
: check n balance,...
: check n balance.
: gop is as disgusting as democraps. nobody should dominate. sheeple should
: figure out ways to let them fight, which is the best senario for sheeple.
|
y****t
发帖数: 10233 | 69 hehe..
sure, i have no problem with that.
【在 b*****g 的大作中提到】
: 在民主党州,check and balance的唯一办法就是全力支持共和党
: 等到共和党绝对优势时，再换态度不迟
|
B******e
发帖数: 5730 | 70 想得美
加州是被州民自己 direct democracy 害死了
和那一党没关系
【在 b*****g 的大作中提到】
: 加州政府越没效率，对硅工越好
: 政府如果一旦有了效率，就会高效加税，高效给非法移民劳保，高效给各界支持他的同
: 仁送钱
: 所以答案太显然了
: 加州必须死而复生，让他发IOU，让他破产。最后那些pension作废了，union破产了，
: 共和党执政了，人民才可以得到解放。
|
|
|
h*******a
发帖数: 573 | 71 There is a key difference b/w state and federal budgeting. Unlike the fed
that can print as much money as it wants, local states do not have such
financial liberty. That's why every state has to balance the budget each
year, while the federal government can run huge budget deficits over the
years. To put it simply, there is no way local states can borrow without
comparable tax increases in a not long future. So with the 2/3 majority
tax increase requirement, the state government can't borrow and spend at
its will.
【在 G****s 的大作中提到】
: just think where does money come from?
: ok no raise taxes, but let's borrow. there is not much difference.
: The solution is control spending, not passing any budget DEM has on the
: table.
: With simple majority, everything passes.
|
y****t
发帖数: 10233 | 72 69 million fraud in welfare checks.
this is just recent news, not even mentioning those outrageously paid
government bastards in bell, san ramon...
let's start the cutting and fighting the waste and fraud from here before
you even mention the T word.
【在 h*******a 的大作中提到】
: There is a key difference b/w state and federal budgeting. Unlike the fed
: that can print as much money as it wants, local states do not have such
: financial liberty. That's why every state has to balance the budget each
: year, while the federal government can run huge budget deficits over the
: years. To put it simply, there is no way local states can borrow without
: comparable tax increases in a not long future. So with the 2/3 majority
: tax increase requirement, the state government can't borrow and spend at
: its will.
|
B******e
发帖数: 5730 | |
y****t
发帖数: 10233 | 74 当然,这些,某个小孩子是不懂的.
【在 y****t 的大作中提到】
: 69 million fraud in welfare checks.
: this is just recent news, not even mentioning those outrageously paid
: government bastards in bell, san ramon...
: let's start the cutting and fighting the waste and fraud from here before
: you even mention the T word.
|
s******n
发帖数: 876 | 75 Actually, there is no law forbidding states from printing their own currency
. California may come to that solution pretty soon.
【在 h*******a 的大作中提到】
: There is a key difference b/w state and federal budgeting. Unlike the fed
: that can print as much money as it wants, local states do not have such
: financial liberty. That's why every state has to balance the budget each
: year, while the federal government can run huge budget deficits over the
: years. To put it simply, there is no way local states can borrow without
: comparable tax increases in a not long future. So with the 2/3 majority
: tax increase requirement, the state government can't borrow and spend at
: its will.
|
y****t
发帖数: 10233 | 76 oakland 已经自己印钞票了
currency
【在 s******n 的大作中提到】
: Actually, there is no law forbidding states from printing their own currency
: . California may come to that solution pretty soon.
|
B******e
发帖数: 5730 | 77 LOL
It is against Federal law.
currency
【在 s******n 的大作中提到】
: Actually, there is no law forbidding states from printing their own currency
: . California may come to that solution pretty soon.
|
s******n
发帖数: 876 | 78 连MITBBS都可以发行伪币呢。虽然是内部流通，但是不影响其货币的性能。
【在 B******e 的大作中提到】
: LOL
: It is against Federal law.
:
: currency
|
G****s
发帖数: 3523 | 79 there are many type of borrowing. some are quite long-term. this just defers
the problem to the future and by then a tax hike is inevitable. the root
problem is still over-spending.
You were saying their hands are still tied even with this bill passed. My
counter argument is: look at what they have done even without this bill -
income tax hikes, sales tax hikes, fee hikes not long ago. Congress has a
million ways to screw you up without check and balance.
when DEMs pass budgets to over borrow and over spend, and the state is in
financial trouble, both DEM and GOP will agree to raise tax, when they have
no other choise.
Back to the initial point: the money has to come somewhere.
【在 h*******a 的大作中提到】
: There is a key difference b/w state and federal budgeting. Unlike the fed
: that can print as much money as it wants, local states do not have such
: financial liberty. That's why every state has to balance the budget each
: year, while the federal government can run huge budget deficits over the
: years. To put it simply, there is no way local states can borrow without
: comparable tax increases in a not long future. So with the 2/3 majority
: tax increase requirement, the state government can't borrow and spend at
: its will.
|
B******e
发帖数: 5730 | 80 如果 加上
requires that legislation pass a balanced budget
可能更好
但是，doesn't a budget have to be balanced?
任何 bond 不是都要州民投票通过？
又不是议会可以乱开支票
我的看法是
加州的问题是政府和议会 被过多的 Voters' initiatives
束手束脚，什么事都做不了
倒不是那一党横行霸道造成的
defers
have
【在 G****s 的大作中提到】
: there are many type of borrowing. some are quite long-term. this just defers
: the problem to the future and by then a tax hike is inevitable. the root
: problem is still over-spending.
: You were saying their hands are still tied even with this bill passed. My
: counter argument is: look at what they have done even without this bill -
: income tax hikes, sales tax hikes, fee hikes not long ago. Congress has a
: million ways to screw you up without check and balance.
: when DEMs pass budgets to over borrow and over spend, and the state is in
: financial trouble, both DEM and GOP will agree to raise tax, when they have
: no other choise.
|
|
|
l*********1
发帖数: 2971 | 81 当然了，你贪官爹妈弄那么多民脂民膏还不是托你党妈一党专制的福气，你咋会不喜欢
一党独大了。
在你婊子眼里，民就是一个PANDER类似的宠物，你婊子那天床上来了高潮
一高兴喊几句爱黑人爱穷人就
是对民的关怀。但民是不能不依着不顺着你这类婊子嫖客。一有自己的想法，你这婊子
就来一句＂刁民＂.
其实你对八马的狂热到下体热流涌动，到不是对美国民主制度选出黑人总统的这一壮举
崇拜，而是八马身上那股味道让你有革命性冲动，一个国家，一个党，一个领袖让你高
潮跌起。
你这婊子真是个极品，你这傻B早几十年生天安门前跳得最欢快的就准是你了
【在 B******e 的大作中提到】
: 如果 加上
: requires that legislation pass a balanced budget
: 可能更好
: 但是，doesn't a budget have to be balanced?
: 任何 bond 不是都要州民投票通过？
: 又不是议会可以乱开支票
: 我的看法是
: 加州的问题是政府和议会 被过多的 Voters' initiatives
: 束手束脚，什么事都做不了
: 倒不是那一党横行霸道造成的
|
h*******a
发帖数: 573 | 82 Are you dreaming out of your mind? My goodness, there is so much nonsense
and ignorance going on this board.
You guys can continue to shoot yourself on your feet. I quit.
currency
【在 s******n 的大作中提到】
: Actually, there is no law forbidding states from printing their own currency
: . California may come to that solution pretty soon.
|
y****t
发帖数: 10233 | 83 open up your eyes if you have any, ignorance is not with us, but with you.
发信人: yourtt (rainmaker), 信区: SanFrancisco
标 题: Re: oakland要自己印钞票了?
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Thu Aug 12 02:03:15 2010, 美东)
Alternative Currency for Oakland Residents and Neighbors
ACORNs
http://oaklandcityidcard.org/acorns/
heck, what a familiar name.
【在 y****t 的大作中提到】
: oakland 已经自己印钞票了
:
: currency
|
h*******a
发帖数: 573 | 84 I happened to have taken a class on laws in business school. District courts
are where federal cases begin. They are part of the federal court system,
while superior courts are part of the state court system. Federal courts
have higher judicial authority over state courts. You have probably mixed up
superior court with supreme courts. LOL
【在 r****c 的大作中提到】
: 拜托啊，是不是支持民主党的铁杆逻辑都有问题啊，人家说了superior court judge认
: 为这个prop的语言有误导，要求修改。但是California 3rd District Court of
: Appeals说这个语言没有问题，误导的话是那些人比较愚蠢，不违法。
: 所以法律界都对这个没有异议：把tax law bind into budget can pass with only
: simply majority.
: 不知道你是真不懂还是装的
|
s******n
发帖数: 876 | 85 您想侮辱我，不用这么感情充沛，把这个禁止地方货币的法律光当一下亮在我的面前，
我不就傻眼了? MBA也要讲究实证的吧。
【在 h*******a 的大作中提到】
: Are you dreaming out of your mind? My goodness, there is so much nonsense
: and ignorance going on this board.
: You guys can continue to shoot yourself on your feet. I quit.
:
: currency
|
m*****y
发帖数: 2424 | 86 Dude, he did say the superior court's decision was overruled by the district
court, thus allowing the misleading language in Prop 25, what's ur beef?
courts
up
【在 h*******a 的大作中提到】
: I happened to have taken a class on laws in business school. District courts
: are where federal cases begin. They are part of the federal court system,
: while superior courts are part of the state court system. Federal courts
: have higher judicial authority over state courts. You have probably mixed up
: superior court with supreme courts. LOL
|
y****t
发帖数: 10233 | 87 西太的b school?
district
【在 m*****y 的大作中提到】
: Dude, he did say the superior court's decision was overruled by the district
: court, thus allowing the misleading language in Prop 25, what's ur beef?
:
: courts
: up
|
m*****y
发帖数: 2424 | 88 u r so blunt sometimes, heheh ...
【在 y****t 的大作中提到】
: 西太的b school?
:
: district
|
B******e
发帖数: 5730 | |
y****t
发帖数: 10233 | 90 proud to be straight and honest,
not like those hypocrites.
lol...
【在 B******e 的大作中提到】
: and so dull ...
|
|
|
m*****y
发帖数: 2424 | 91 If I didn't know better, it almost sounded like u r flirting with him,
hohoho ...
【在 B******e 的大作中提到】
: and so dull ...
|
h*******a
发帖数: 573 | 92 I must have misundertood what he intended to say. My bad. Shouldn't surf the
net while working :-(
He meant the overrule allowed misleading languages
to stay in place?
hmm.....That's not how I understand the ruling. The ruling meant the
district court actually supported the interpretation that a 2/3 majority is
required for tax increases. It's all that is needed for the requirement.
You know, American laws are laws by interpretation. Sometimes there can be
conflicting clauses in a bill, and the court's interpretation will be used
as the final guide.
district
【在 m*****y 的大作中提到】
: Dude, he did say the superior court's decision was overruled by the district
: court, thus allowing the misleading language in Prop 25, what's ur beef?
:
: courts
: up
|
y****t
发帖数: 10233 | 93 you know what, as someone have said it earlier, people like you really
shouldn't vote. please stay at home.
better for california, better for the country.
the
is
【在 h*******a 的大作中提到】
: I must have misundertood what he intended to say. My bad. Shouldn't surf the
: net while working :-(
: He meant the overrule allowed misleading languages
: to stay in place?
: hmm.....That's not how I understand the ruling. The ruling meant the
: district court actually supported the interpretation that a 2/3 majority is
: required for tax increases. It's all that is needed for the requirement.
: You know, American laws are laws by interpretation. Sometimes there can be
: conflicting clauses in a bill, and the court's interpretation will be used
: as the final guide.
|
h*******a
发帖数: 573 | 94 You know when you say things like this, it only makes yourself look ugly.
【在 y****t 的大作中提到】
: you know what, as someone have said it earlier, people like you really
: shouldn't vote. please stay at home.
: better for california, better for the country.
:
: the
: is
|
y****t
发帖数: 10233 | 95 truth hurts, i know.
【在 h*******a 的大作中提到】
: You know when you say things like this, it only makes yourself look ugly.
|
B******e
发帖数: 5730 | 96 hydra,
别理这个这没有蛋蛋的小流氓
啥都不懂，还不准别人投票
有民主风度么？ |
