J****C
发帖数: 1465 | 1 【 以下文字转载自 Running 讨论区 】
发信人: vivil (running piggy), 信区: Running
标 题: [技术贴] 跑步对脚踝骨结构的影响(科研与灌水的完美结合!)
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Fri Jun 10 15:59:50 2011, 美东)
我最近忽悠了几个local runner来做高精度骨结构扫描，看到一些有意思的结果。样本
很小，就4个（还加上我自己）。3个的trabecular bone (松质骨)结构和正常人有差异
，主要体现在有变粗变大的骨小梁，并且成片连接在一起。初步估计，在开始过长时间
，过大负荷的给予骨头Loading,unloading，造成了非常小的microfracture,
microdamage，恢复后就形成了microcallus(骨痂）。唯一一个跑完骨头一点事没有的
，当当当当，就是我们的兽人tonyprince同学。
下面按顺序是：1.vivil：我的只显示有很小的一点异常，在接近左下cortical bone（
硬质骨）的地方。
2. vivil+1，明显比我的问题要多。他头两次全马脚踝疼痛难忍，估计是有原因的。
3. simpleshue，最悲催的就是这位同学，scan结果刚出来吓了我们一跳，最近脚面还
有了stress fracture。
4. tonyprince，看着就像“普通人”一样。 |
J****C
发帖数: 1465 | 2 跑步，尤其是长距离，对下肢骨骼韧带的冲击太大，不是什么人都可以跑步的。
我老认为，有条件的话，划船，游泳，都是更好的运动。 |
c***u
发帖数: 3888 | 3 是不是还有更全面的锻炼方式呢？
【在 J****C 的大作中提到】
: 跑步，尤其是长距离，对下肢骨骼韧带的冲击太大，不是什么人都可以跑步的。
: 我老认为，有条件的话，划船，游泳，都是更好的运动。
|
s**y
发帖数: 3070 | 4 谢肯哥
我也放弃长跑了，一般都不超过5miles,速度还比较慢，膝盖确实不舒服，还有起自行
车超过20miles, 也觉得膝盖不是很舒服
在吃一些帮助joint的保健品，还是有用 |
w*******s
发帖数: 980 | 5 因为帖子在跑版合集了，所以跑到这里回复你
标题有些半开玩笑，妹妹不要太在意。如果你往后看，我也赏给自己同样的称号。如有
冒犯，请你原谅。
跑版的人以跑马拉松为主，对于科学训练是很严肃的。首先，如果读完vivil的帖子，
就会发现骨头最健康的是跑得最多的tonyprince，他是完成过100mile的超级马拉松选
手。而问题最严重的simpleshue恰恰是四人中跑的时间最短，跑量最少的。
对于全面提高身体素质，增强心肺功能，跑步不是唯一的，但是是最有效，最方便的运
动。与流行的大多数其他运动，足球，排球，羽毛球，相比，跑步不仅是比较不易受伤
的，而且是受伤后比较容易恢复的。游泳很好，但是大多数人游泳的强度根本达不到
cardio的效果，游泳运动员也是要靠跑步来进一步提高心肺功能的。划船实际上是比较
伤膝盖的一项运动。即使是健身版练肌肉的大牛们很多也跑步不息的。
“不是什么人都可以xx的”字面上没有问题，把xx换成什么都可以，所以基本跟没说一
样。但是我理解这里的“不是什么人都可以跑步的”实际暗指很多人不可以跑步。这是
我不能赞成的。不是每个人都能跑马拉松（虽然跑马拉松也没什么了不起的），但是绝
大多数中青年的非残疾人都是可以跑步的。你不就在跑步吗，即使没有5mile，跑4mile
也很不错啊。如果每星期能坚持跑3次，每次30分钟，就是很好的锻炼。跑步中遇到伤
病很正常，可以休息，做cross training,改进running form，换鞋。跑版很多人都受
过伤，养好后经过训练都跑得更快更长。
跑版大众推崇的是active的生活态度。象你这样又yoga跳舞，又跑步骑车的，跟runner
们很合拍的。按你跑的量，膝盖不应该成问题，可以从running form上找原因，如果长
期不舒服，就考虑找大夫看看吧。
行车超过20miles, 也觉得膝盖不是很舒服
【在 s**y 的大作中提到】
: 谢肯哥
: 我也放弃长跑了，一般都不超过5miles,速度还比较慢，膝盖确实不舒服，还有起自行
: 车超过20miles, 也觉得膝盖不是很舒服
: 在吃一些帮助joint的保健品，还是有用
|
J****C
发帖数: 1465 | 6 “不是什么人都可以跑步的” refers to those with injuries or certain body
conditions. Like myself, I tore a ligament in my knee 14 years ago while
playing basketball. Now my knee will give up every time I run more than 2
miles. There are also patients I see with flat feet (fallen arches). For those people I always suggest swimming but not running.
"大多数人游泳的强度根本达不到 cardio的效"---it really depends on how fast and how
long you swim, just like running. 大多数人don't run marathon or do 100meter sprint either, so don't compare apples with oranges.
Never heard of 游泳运动员也是要靠跑步来进一步提高心肺功能---swimmers only
run when the outdoor pool is cold or dry. |
w*******s
发帖数: 980 | 7
Didn't that convince you that running is safer than most popular sports? 哈哈，开玩笑啦。如果受过伤，做运动时确实要小心，不仅是跑步，对于其它运动也一样。当然，如果有兴趣，你还是可以跑步的。跑版一大堆高手以前曾经肥胖或是踢球受过伤，刚开始跑步时都是状况连连的。关键是科学训练和耐心。
people I always suggest swimming but not running.
平足不适合跑步？你的依据是什么？Do a google search "flat feet running":
Having flat feet (or "pes planus" or "fallen arches") does not automatically
disqualify you from running. If you use your flat feet as an excuse why not
to go for your marathon dream, it most likely is only your problem and not
the problem of your flat feet.
前任版主julian就是严重的平足。你可以到跑版问问还有多少人是扁平足。
and how
100meter sprint either, so don't compare apples with oranges.
Yes, it depends on how fast and how long you swim. But most people's muscle
gives up even before they reach that speed and distance. If you try too hard
, you will drown. On the other hand, 30 minutes casual run gives you enough
cardio boost no matter you are a fast runner or not.
My swim coach, a former professional swimmer, told me, they run a few
thousand meters almost every day as warm up and cardio training. My former
boss, a marathon swimmer, also do routine runs with teammates.
【在 J****C 的大作中提到】
: “不是什么人都可以跑步的” refers to those with injuries or certain body
: conditions. Like myself, I tore a ligament in my knee 14 years ago while
: playing basketball. Now my knee will give up every time I run more than 2
: miles. There are also patients I see with flat feet (fallen arches). For those people I always suggest swimming but not running.
: "大多数人游泳的强度根本达不到 cardio的效"---it really depends on how fast and how
: long you swim, just like running. 大多数人don't run marathon or do 100meter sprint either, so don't compare apples with oranges.
: Never heard of 游泳运动员也是要靠跑步来进一步提高心肺功能---swimmers only
: run when the outdoor pool is cold or dry.
|
J****C
发帖数: 1465 | 8 So tell me why pain in my knee should convince me to continue run? Until I
become crippled?
And tell me the physiology of foot arch, why there's even an arch, why
shouldn't God give everybody flat feet? Don't try to fool me, I'm a doctor.
Cardio exercise should be adaptive to each person individually. if you say
their muscle failed out during swim before their heart, that's because they
didn't warm up enough. start slow and speed up slow.
talking about casual running 30 min, people can also do casual swimming.
your stories of professional swimmers didn't convince me either. Notice they
used running as warm up, and what you said was “进一步增强”
automatically
not
not
【在 w*******s 的大作中提到】
:
: Didn't that convince you that running is safer than most popular sports? 哈哈，开玩笑啦。如果受过伤，做运动时确实要小心，不仅是跑步，对于其它运动也一样。当然，如果有兴趣，你还是可以跑步的。跑版一大堆高手以前曾经肥胖或是踢球受过伤，刚开始跑步时都是状况连连的。关键是科学训练和耐心。
: people I always suggest swimming but not running.
: 平足不适合跑步？你的依据是什么？Do a google search "flat feet running":
: Having flat feet (or "pes planus" or "fallen arches") does not automatically
: disqualify you from running. If you use your flat feet as an excuse why not
: to go for your marathon dream, it most likely is only your problem and not
: the problem of your flat feet.
: 前任版主julian就是严重的平足。你可以到跑版问问还有多少人是扁平足。
: and how
|
T*R
发帖数: 25894 | 9 游泳很练心肺啊，不仅是累，而且还有水压。
啃锅，要减肥，运动的时候心跳是不是120-160最好？ |
w*******s
发帖数: 980 | 10
You don't need to run if you don't want to. But you can run if you train
smartly. Patience is the key. Again, it is totally up to you. Running is not
the only exercise.
they
I don't believe in your God. My arch type is determined by my genes which
comes from my parents. For flat feet runner, there is a thing called "shoes"
coming to the rescue. If you don't believe people with flat feet can run, "
google" doesn't take much time.
I love swimming. Swimming is fun and a good exercise. But "swimming does not
burn more calories than running. As a zero impact exercise, it is
impossible for swimming to burn more calories than running at the same
intensity". I swims regularly for almost two years until my doctor told me
two years ago that I was diabetic and had low HDL. I switched to running. I
am healthy now.
【在 J****C 的大作中提到】
: So tell me why pain in my knee should convince me to continue run? Until I
: become crippled?
: And tell me the physiology of foot arch, why there's even an arch, why
: shouldn't God give everybody flat feet? Don't try to fool me, I'm a doctor.
: Cardio exercise should be adaptive to each person individually. if you say
: their muscle failed out during swim before their heart, that's because they
: didn't warm up enough. start slow and speed up slow.
: talking about casual running 30 min, people can also do casual swimming.
: your stories of professional swimmers didn't convince me either. Notice they
: used running as warm up, and what you said was “进一步增强”
|
|
|
s**y
发帖数: 3070 | 11 谢谢你专门回铁阿。 我才看到。
赫赫，话说我是一点没生气啊，就是很葱白你们这些大牛啊
昨天我也跑了中央公园３。５ｍｉｌｅ的ＪＰｍｏｒｇａｎ ｃｏｒｐｏｒａｔｅ ｃ
ｈａｌｌｅｎｇｅ， 可西中间小腹疼痛，只好走了一段，影响了成绩，最后３６分钟
所以我爱锻炼，但是不敢轻易上跑版阿
【在 w*******s 的大作中提到】
: 因为帖子在跑版合集了，所以跑到这里回复你
: 标题有些半开玩笑，妹妹不要太在意。如果你往后看，我也赏给自己同样的称号。如有
: 冒犯，请你原谅。
: 跑版的人以跑马拉松为主，对于科学训练是很严肃的。首先，如果读完vivil的帖子，
: 就会发现骨头最健康的是跑得最多的tonyprince，他是完成过100mile的超级马拉松选
: 手。而问题最严重的simpleshue恰恰是四人中跑的时间最短，跑量最少的。
: 对于全面提高身体素质，增强心肺功能，跑步不是唯一的，但是是最有效，最方便的运
: 动。与流行的大多数其他运动，足球，排球，羽毛球，相比，跑步不仅是比较不易受伤
: 的，而且是受伤后比较容易恢复的。游泳很好，但是大多数人游泳的强度根本达不到
: cardio的效果，游泳运动员也是要靠跑步来进一步提高心肺功能的。划船实际上是比较
|
J****C
发帖数: 1465 | 12 LOL
I couldn't help laughing reading your last sentence...your doctor told you
to stop swimming because you were diabetic and had low HDL...and now you are
healthy...what a joke...
OK, buddy, you made my day. Thanks for the entertaining! |
J****C
发帖数: 1465 | 13 yes, but that's not enough. time matters. weight reduction needs lots and
lots of aerobic exercise.
【在 T*R 的大作中提到】
: 游泳很练心肺啊，不仅是累，而且还有水压。
: 啃锅，要减肥，运动的时候心跳是不是120-160最好？
|
T*R
发帖数: 25894 | 14 isn't diabetic like....foreva? |
s**y
发帖数: 3070 | |
J****C
发帖数: 1465 | 16 You don't need to believe in my God or whoever's God, I don't believe
either
, but you need to know there's something called science and some special
knowledge called exercise physiology. Trust me, your or your parents's
gene
is not going to be so different from everybody else. Finally, glad you
know
there's something called Google, haha, so use it.
which
shoes"
run,
"
【在 w*******s 的大作中提到】
:
: You don't need to run if you don't want to. But you can run if you train
: smartly. Patience is the key. Again, it is totally up to you. Running is not
: the only exercise.
: they
: I don't believe in your God. My arch type is determined by my genes which
: comes from my parents. For flat feet runner, there is a thing called "shoes"
: coming to the rescue. If you don't believe people with flat feet can run, "
: google" doesn't take much time.
:
|
J****C
发帖数: 1465 | 17 high density lipoprotein, supposed to be a good and protective lipoprotein,
usually believed is that regular exercise can increase its level
【在 s**y 的大作中提到】
: 我小声问哈２位医生，什么是ＨＤＬ？
|
T*R
发帖数: 25894 | 18 每星期3次，每次一小时够不够？
【在 J****C 的大作中提到】
: yes, but that's not enough. time matters. weight reduction needs lots and
: lots of aerobic exercise.
|
T*R
发帖数: 25894 | 19 好像是叫做 good cholesterol?
【在 s**y 的大作中提到】
: 我小声问哈２位医生，什么是ＨＤＬ？
|
J****C
发帖数: 1465 | 20 I don't know. I always have problem putting on weight.
【在 T*R 的大作中提到】
: 每星期3次，每次一小时够不够？
|
|
|
T*R
发帖数: 25894 | 21 BSO
【在 J****C 的大作中提到】
: I don't know. I always have problem putting on weight.
|
w*******s
发帖数: 980 | 22 My doctor didn't ask me to quit swimming. I didn't quit swimming either. I
just don't swim as often as before.
I realized that the time I spend on swimming ( 3 times a week) and the
intensity I can sustain in swimming was not enough to improve my health. So
I started running. Initially only 1 or 2 miles, very slow. Then longer and
longer.
are
【在 J****C 的大作中提到】
: LOL
: I couldn't help laughing reading your last sentence...your doctor told you
: to stop swimming because you were diabetic and had low HDL...and now you are
: healthy...what a joke...
: OK, buddy, you made my day. Thanks for the entertaining!
|
w*******s
发帖数: 980 | 23 Can not agree more from my own experience. Time matters and intensity
matters too.
【在 J****C 的大作中提到】
: yes, but that's not enough. time matters. weight reduction needs lots and
: lots of aerobic exercise.
|
w*******s
发帖数: 980 | 24 Hehe, there are many BigCow, but I am not one of them, not qualified.
Welcome to the board and if you like to join group fun run in Central Park,
contact vivil or fatboyhog.
Running board is friendly to beginners. Everybody starts as beginner. Be
humble, and no whining.
【在 s**y 的大作中提到】
: 谢谢你专门回铁阿。 我才看到。
: 赫赫，话说我是一点没生气啊，就是很葱白你们这些大牛啊
: 昨天我也跑了中央公园３。５ｍｉｌｅ的ＪＰｍｏｒｇａｎ ｃｏｒｐｏｒａｔｅ ｃ
: ｈａｌｌｅｎｇｅ， 可西中间小腹疼痛，只好走了一段，影响了成绩，最后３６分钟
: 所以我爱锻炼，但是不敢轻易上跑版阿
|
s**y
发帖数: 3070 | 25 呵呵，好啊
我想让ｖｉｖｉｌ也帮我测下骨头，不知道他们要不要女的加入阿，这样我就放心跑步拉
【在 w*******s 的大作中提到】
: Hehe, there are many BigCow, but I am not one of them, not qualified.
: Welcome to the board and if you like to join group fun run in Central Park,
: contact vivil or fatboyhog.
: Running board is friendly to beginners. Everybody starts as beginner. Be
: humble, and no whining.
|
w*******s
发帖数: 980 | 26 写信找她测骨头的人太多了。你最好先一起跑几次，跟vivil熟了，她就不好意思拒绝了
步拉
【在 s**y 的大作中提到】
: 呵呵，好啊
: 我想让ｖｉｖｉｌ也帮我测下骨头，不知道他们要不要女的加入阿，这样我就放心跑步拉
|
