l*******3
发帖数: 186 | 1 我听说不少front office quant 是给traders做support，不参与trade，还有些quant
是做具体的trading strategies的。后者是不是大部分都在buy side呢？如果有选择，
是不是选择buy side公司更好些？听说buy side更好些，除了working hour短些，还有
什么区别和好处么？谢谢！ |
y**********0
发帖数: 521 | 2 I am not Da Niu, but I can give some opinion:
The sell side quant bubble already bursted. The pay is very limited and life
is very miserable. If people can go to buy side, never try sell side.
Here is the ranking:
buy side PM > buy side quant > buy side trader > sell side trader> sell side
front desk quant> sell side risk or model review quant
quant
【在 l*******3 的大作中提到】
: 我听说不少front office quant 是给traders做support，不参与trade，还有些quant
: 是做具体的trading strategies的。后者是不是大部分都在buy side呢？如果有选择，
: 是不是选择buy side公司更好些？听说buy side更好些，除了working hour短些，还有
: 什么区别和好处么？谢谢！
|
l****o
发帖数: 2909 | 3 buy side quant > buy side trader > sell side trader ???? |
y**********0
发帖数: 521 | 4 sell side trader will be hit hardly by the new regulation.
buy side quant really means buy side quant trader.
buy side trader is the one who concentrate on execution, not strategy.
【在 l****o 的大作中提到】
: buy side quant > buy side trader > sell side trader ????
|
j******n
发帖数: 2206 | 5 这个Regulation hit sell side trader hardly到底怎么回事?
外行人问问。谢谢。 |
l*******3
发帖数: 186 | 6 Thank all of you so much for the insightful information. |
Y******u
发帖数: 1912 | 7 How about buy-side portfolio risk quant
life
side
【在 y**********0 的大作中提到】
: I am not Da Niu, but I can give some opinion:
: The sell side quant bubble already bursted. The pay is very limited and life
: is very miserable. If people can go to buy side, never try sell side.
: Here is the ranking:
: buy side PM > buy side quant > buy side trader > sell side trader> sell side
: front desk quant> sell side risk or model review quant
:
: quant
|
j*****4
发帖数: 292 | 8 这个是什么rank？
life
side
【在 y**********0 的大作中提到】
: I am not Da Niu, but I can give some opinion:
: The sell side quant bubble already bursted. The pay is very limited and life
: is very miserable. If people can go to buy side, never try sell side.
: Here is the ranking:
: buy side PM > buy side quant > buy side trader > sell side trader> sell side
: front desk quant> sell side risk or model review quant
:
: quant
|
b********a
发帖数: 5418 | 9 what is buy side PM? PM stands for?
life
side
【在 y**********0 的大作中提到】
: I am not Da Niu, but I can give some opinion:
: The sell side quant bubble already bursted. The pay is very limited and life
: is very miserable. If people can go to buy side, never try sell side.
: Here is the ranking:
: buy side PM > buy side quant > buy side trader > sell side trader> sell side
: front desk quant> sell side risk or model review quant
:
: quant
|
n****e
发帖数: 2401 | |
|
|
y**********0
发帖数: 521 | 11 This is a rough comparison for people with normal 6 year experience(about
3rd year VP):
Buyside PM: $500,000 to $20,000,000 /year 6-10 hours per day
Buyside quant: $200,000 to $5,000,000 / year 6-10 hours per day
Buyside trader: $150,000 to $800,000/ year 7-10 hours per day
Sellside trader: $100,000 to $800,000 /year 8-14 hours per day
Sellside frontdesk quant: $150,000 to $400,000/per year 8-14 hours per day
Sellside risk/model review quant: $130,000 to $230,000/per year 8-10 hour
per day
You tell which one is better.
【在 n****e 的大作中提到】
: 桌子矿是王道，其他的都是臭大粪。
|
a***r
发帖数: 594 | 12 your ranking HARDLY means anything.
【在 y**********0 的大作中提到】
: sell side trader will be hit hardly by the new regulation.
: buy side quant really means buy side quant trader.
: buy side trader is the one who concentrate on execution, not strategy.
|
s******e
发帖数: 1751 | 13 You forgot to mention that you need to make money, otherwise you are out.
day
day
【在 y**********0 的大作中提到】
: This is a rough comparison for people with normal 6 year experience(about
: 3rd year VP):
: Buyside PM: $500,000 to $20,000,000 /year 6-10 hours per day
: Buyside quant: $200,000 to $5,000,000 / year 6-10 hours per day
: Buyside trader: $150,000 to $800,000/ year 7-10 hours per day
: Sellside trader: $100,000 to $800,000 /year 8-14 hours per day
: Sellside frontdesk quant: $150,000 to $400,000/per year 8-14 hours per day
: Sellside risk/model review quant: $130,000 to $230,000/per year 8-10 hour
: per day
: You tell which one is better.
|
y**********0
发帖数: 521 | 14 It means if one wants to make some money and have a good life, one should go
to buy-side. Sell-side is a very bad career path now if one has other
choice in general.
【在 a***r 的大作中提到】
: your ranking HARDLY means anything.
|
y**********0
发帖数: 521 | 15 Sure, loser is always a loser, winner is always a winner.
But for the same kind of education, talent and experience, this is what
happening on street. You can ask any people with more than 5 year experience
, the answer is same.
【在 s******e 的大作中提到】
: You forgot to mention that you need to make money, otherwise you are out.
:
: day
: day
|
s******e
发帖数: 1751 | 16 Not really, losers sometimes are treated as winners, and winners sometimes
look like a loser. Market humbles everyone.
Education, seriously, is nothing, on the street.
I have seen too many ppl rose and fell flat.
experience
【在 y**********0 的大作中提到】
: Sure, loser is always a loser, winner is always a winner.
: But for the same kind of education, talent and experience, this is what
: happening on street. You can ask any people with more than 5 year experience
: , the answer is same.
|
y**********0
发帖数: 521 | 17 Give me some example.
Even John Paulson lost lots of money last year, he is still a winner. It's
not his money. He still has investers.
I didn't see any loser suddenly treated as a winner.
【在 s******e 的大作中提到】
: Not really, losers sometimes are treated as winners, and winners sometimes
: look like a loser. Market humbles everyone.
: Education, seriously, is nothing, on the street.
: I have seen too many ppl rose and fell flat.
:
: experience
|
s******e
发帖数: 1751 | 18 most ppl, before they reach paulson's level, were blew up and gone.
i sit in a place that every other day some one telling me that a fund or two
were closed/redempted/returned money. and most of ppl in those funds are
not stupid.
2011 BBG top 100 largest hf list, the 30th is making 7.3%. The 100th is
making 1%?
【在 y**********0 的大作中提到】
: Give me some example.
: Even John Paulson lost lots of money last year, he is still a winner. It's
: not his money. He still has investers.
: I didn't see any loser suddenly treated as a winner.
|
y**********0
发帖数: 521 | 19 There is a fee called managment fee, which is 1-3% of AUM. As long as
investor don't redempt, the pay is still much better than sell-side. Yes,
many funds can be closed, but the talents will have another fund
immediatelly.
At buy-side, one can fufill his talent and have lots of opportunites. At
sell side, no matter how talented you are, your path is very limited and
nobody wants or need to pay you high because there are so many fresh graduates of Ph.D. and MFE who is cheap and can do the same work after 1 year training.
two
【在 s******e 的大作中提到】
: most ppl, before they reach paulson's level, were blew up and gone.
: i sit in a place that every other day some one telling me that a fund or two
: were closed/redempted/returned money. and most of ppl in those funds are
: not stupid.
: 2011 BBG top 100 largest hf list, the 30th is making 7.3%. The 100th is
: making 1%?
|
l*******3
发帖数: 186 | 20 谢谢大牛。这个总结很给力：D
day
day
【在 y**********0 的大作中提到】
: This is a rough comparison for people with normal 6 year experience(about
: 3rd year VP):
: Buyside PM: $500,000 to $20,000,000 /year 6-10 hours per day
: Buyside quant: $200,000 to $5,000,000 / year 6-10 hours per day
: Buyside trader: $150,000 to $800,000/ year 7-10 hours per day
: Sellside trader: $100,000 to $800,000 /year 8-14 hours per day
: Sellside frontdesk quant: $150,000 to $400,000/per year 8-14 hours per day
: Sellside risk/model review quant: $130,000 to $230,000/per year 8-10 hour
: per day
: You tell which one is better.
|
|
|
s******e
发帖数: 1751 | 21 i've been on both side. neither one is easy.
i've talked to many ppl, some of them extremely talented/connected/powerful.
The engineering training from school contributes a small fraction to
success in this industry.
even managing a small sell side business, i.e. 3 ppl, 50 million budget a
year, requires some talents/skills. |
l*******3
发帖数: 186 | 22 谢谢大牛们！能不能再帮推荐几个好的asset management公司呢？我没工作过，所以实
在不太理解。卖方有些投行我也刚面过，有budget要人的很少，基本都是让我onsite一
下，同时又说有budget能做决定的时候会通知我，郁闷。。。 |
L******g
发帖数: 1371 | |
l*******3
发帖数: 186 | 24 哎呀，不好意思，我刚在纽约班回复你了，我还没拿到呢。只是一时兴奋，去问一下租
房子的事，嘿嘿。借你吉言，希望赶快拿到袄佛，呵呵
【在 L******g 的大作中提到】
: 楼主 拿了offer, 在NY版 问房子呢。
|
d*j
发帖数: 13780 | 25 后来你去哪里intern啊？
大牛。。。
【在 l*******3 的大作中提到】
: 哎呀，不好意思，我刚在纽约班回复你了，我还没拿到呢。只是一时兴奋，去问一下租
: 房子的事，嘿嘿。借你吉言，希望赶快拿到袄佛，呵呵
|
c*******e
发帖数: 150 | 26 不参与buy-side，sell-side 两边跨界的排序，不过赞同youforever20 大牛说的
buy-side quant (or so-called researchers for fundamental styles of funds) >
buy-side execution traders 和
sell-side trader > sell-side desk quant 都是不争的事实
是否 buy-side execution trader > sell-side trader 尚容讨论。个人以为在 sell-
side 已经掌握一个book，比如the entire SPX var swap book OR dispersion book
的trader 的权力和赚钱的能力不一定比 buy-side PM/quant/researcher 差。至少是
偶们的 counterparty 在一块私下喝酒聊天的时候能够让偶们相信的。
【在 y**********0 的大作中提到】
: sell side trader will be hit hardly by the new regulation.
: buy side quant really means buy side quant trader.
: buy side trader is the one who concentrate on execution, not strategy.
|
l*******3
发帖数: 186 | 27 哦，你看到我的那个回复啦，呜呜，悲催的哪里都没去，导师不给签字办CPT。我还没毕业呢，正在找工作，小虾米一个，嘿嘿
【在 d*j 的大作中提到】
: 后来你去哪里intern啊？
: 大牛。。。
|
c*******e
发帖数: 150 | 28 portfolio manager
【在 b********a 的大作中提到】
: what is buy side PM? PM stands for?
:
: life
: side
|
d*j
发帖数: 13780 | 29 cft。。。
这个导师不上路啊
【在 l*******3 的大作中提到】
: 哦，你看到我的那个回复啦，呜呜，悲催的哪里都没去，导师不给签字办CPT。我还没毕业呢，正在找工作，小虾米一个，嘿嘿
|
y**********0
发帖数: 521 | 30 A good sell-side trader definitely can make a good money before. But after
the new regulation rule, any high-risk prop type trading will be prohibited.
Many products will go to exchange. The good time for sell-side trader is
gone. For sell-side quant, it thus will be worse as the quant serves the
traders.
>
sell-
【在 c*******e 的大作中提到】
: 不参与buy-side，sell-side 两边跨界的排序，不过赞同youforever20 大牛说的
: buy-side quant (or so-called researchers for fundamental styles of funds) >
: buy-side execution traders 和
: sell-side trader > sell-side desk quant 都是不争的事实
: 是否 buy-side execution trader > sell-side trader 尚容讨论。个人以为在 sell-
: side 已经掌握一个book，比如the entire SPX var swap book OR dispersion book
: 的trader 的权力和赚钱的能力不一定比 buy-side PM/quant/researcher 差。至少是
: 偶们的 counterparty 在一块私下喝酒聊天的时候能够让偶们相信的。
|
|
|
c*******e
发帖数: 150 | 31 呵呵，还好吧，大牛别着急，除去prop trading之外，还是有一些 OTC 或者初级
exotic 的 instruments赚钱的业务，在三五年的时间里面不一定能全部 standardize
and go to exchange, 比如 equity variance swaps and volatility swaps, 甚至
vanilla 如 IRS 者现在还是没办法全搬到exchange，更不用说 IR swaptions 。 作
为大broker-dealer 里面掌控这几个books的traders，流量还是不用太担心的。
不过在大趋势上完全同意您说的行业趋势，the old golden days for sell-side
derivatives business are gone
prohibited.
)
book
少是
【在 y**********0 的大作中提到】
: A good sell-side trader definitely can make a good money before. But after
: the new regulation rule, any high-risk prop type trading will be prohibited.
: Many products will go to exchange. The good time for sell-side trader is
: gone. For sell-side quant, it thus will be worse as the quant serves the
: traders.
:
: >
: sell-
|
l*******3
发帖数: 186 | 32 没关系，我们的博士基本都不让出去实习。呵呵。这个在我面试之前就知道的
【在 d*j 的大作中提到】
: cft。。。
: 这个导师不上路啊
|
s******e
发帖数: 1751 | 33 of course,he can easily take 10 times vega than you do.
spx varswap for example, he sees the market both ways and you don't. He has
institution clients who can easily swallow 10 m vega, you don't.
dispersion, he can pick positions to keep based on his client flow.
he does not need to pay 1 vol point for b/a, and change his position freely.
what edge do you have?
>
sell-
【在 c*******e 的大作中提到】
: 不参与buy-side，sell-side 两边跨界的排序，不过赞同youforever20 大牛说的
: buy-side quant (or so-called researchers for fundamental styles of funds) >
: buy-side execution traders 和
: sell-side trader > sell-side desk quant 都是不争的事实
: 是否 buy-side execution trader > sell-side trader 尚容讨论。个人以为在 sell-
: side 已经掌握一个book，比如the entire SPX var swap book OR dispersion book
: 的trader 的权力和赚钱的能力不一定比 buy-side PM/quant/researcher 差。至少是
: 偶们的 counterparty 在一块私下喝酒聊天的时候能够让偶们相信的。
|
c*******e
发帖数: 150 | 34 呵呵, 偶是混迹于quantitative trader中间的fundamental guy，虽然您说greek
letters 啥的偶只懂一点点，不过做到只 take gamma views 不 take vega views
还是不难的。偶们的优势是可以花好几天时间研究一个 fundamental story 而一个
星期只发一招，所以发招的质量还是可以保证的。作为 market 中心的 sell-side
trader，每天有大量的 flow 要处理，还有很多 hedging works，当然处于market
的中心 flow info 是一个优势，但是几分钟做的一个判断 要想和 几天深思熟虑做
的判断 媲美还是会有差别的。
再说了大家也不识什么竞争或者谁 arb 谁的关系，东家挣flow，b/a的钱，偶们挣个
views 的钱，有其它的确有hedging needs 的 II 埋单，谁都开心不是 ^_^
has
freely.
)
book
少是
【在 s******e 的大作中提到】
: of course,he can easily take 10 times vega than you do.
: spx varswap for example, he sees the market both ways and you don't. He has
: institution clients who can easily swallow 10 m vega, you don't.
: dispersion, he can pick positions to keep based on his client flow.
: he does not need to pay 1 vol point for b/a, and change his position freely.
: what edge do you have?
:
: >
: sell-
|
j******3
发帖数: 18319 | 35 大牛我不是很清楚。
quant
【在 l*******3 的大作中提到】
: 我听说不少front office quant 是给traders做support，不参与trade，还有些quant
: 是做具体的trading strategies的。后者是不是大部分都在buy side呢？如果有选择，
: 是不是选择buy side公司更好些？听说buy side更好些，除了working hour短些，还有
: 什么区别和好处么？谢谢！
|
j******3
发帖数: 18319 | 36 感谢您宣传本版。
【在 L******g 的大作中提到】
: 楼主 拿了offer, 在NY版 问房子呢。
|
l*******3
发帖数: 186 | 37 呵呵，不很清楚的该是大牛还是大牛
【在 j******3 的大作中提到】
: 大牛我不是很清楚。
:
: quant
|
