t**r
发帖数: 3428 | 1 clojure 在业界比scala的job要多。 |
n*****3
发帖数: 1584 | 2 how to know that?
most place use these as addtion to java
it is hard to compare scalca or clojure groups
【在 t**r 的大作中提到】
: clojure 在业界比scala的job要多。
|
h*i
发帖数: 3446 | 3 I am not sure.
Clojure is one of those languages that once you go there, you will not go
back. I doubt a Clojure shop will be using Clojure "in addition to Java".
Once Clojure is used in a team, there is simply no benefit of using Java for
this team any more. Because whatever Java delivers, Clojure delivers better
. OOP? Check; Ecosystem? Check;
The only thing prevent Clojure from being adopted is the FUD that some old
guards are tirelessly spreading around. It does not matter. Old guards die.
【在 n*****3 的大作中提到】
: how to know that?
: most place use these as addtion to java
: it is hard to compare scalca or clojure groups
|
c******o
发帖数: 1277 | 4 That is not true, for example, I sometime really just want a strict static
language.
Java (8) has it use, and more so than scala and clojure.
for
better
.
【在 h*i 的大作中提到】
: I am not sure.
: Clojure is one of those languages that once you go there, you will not go
: back. I doubt a Clojure shop will be using Clojure "in addition to Java".
: Once Clojure is used in a team, there is simply no benefit of using Java for
: this team any more. Because whatever Java delivers, Clojure delivers better
: . OOP? Check; Ecosystem? Check;
: The only thing prevent Clojure from being adopted is the FUD that some old
: guards are tirelessly spreading around. It does not matter. Old guards die.
|
g*****g
发帖数: 34805 | 5 Clojure will not go anywhere, for syntax reason alone, see Lisp vs. C.
Scala has peaked, initial buzz is fading off once people are in maintenance
hell for large scale application, LinkedIn has made an example.
Both will remain niche, mostly as a library language in certain domains. As
I predicted a couple of years ago. And even that's being attacked by the
arrival of Java 8. See Kafka.
At the end of the day, talk is cheap, the trend is determined by industry
movements, not your wishful thinking.
for
better
.
【在 h*i 的大作中提到】
: I am not sure.
: Clojure is one of those languages that once you go there, you will not go
: back. I doubt a Clojure shop will be using Clojure "in addition to Java".
: Once Clojure is used in a team, there is simply no benefit of using Java for
: this team any more. Because whatever Java delivers, Clojure delivers better
: . OOP? Check; Ecosystem? Check;
: The only thing prevent Clojure from being adopted is the FUD that some old
: guards are tirelessly spreading around. It does not matter. Old guards die.
|
l**********n
发帖数: 8443 | 6 clojure就一脚本，don't be serious
maintenance
As
【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: Clojure will not go anywhere, for syntax reason alone, see Lisp vs. C.
: Scala has peaked, initial buzz is fading off once people are in maintenance
: hell for large scale application, LinkedIn has made an example.
: Both will remain niche, mostly as a library language in certain domains. As
: I predicted a couple of years ago. And even that's being attacked by the
: arrival of Java 8. See Kafka.
: At the end of the day, talk is cheap, the trend is determined by industry
: movements, not your wishful thinking.
:
: for
|
g*****g
发帖数: 34805 | 7 Groovy beats clojure easily in that respect. Gradle is a good example.
【在 l**********n 的大作中提到】
: clojure就一脚本，don't be serious
:
: maintenance
: As
|
l**********n
发帖数: 8443 | 8 cannot agree more
【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: Groovy beats clojure easily in that respect. Gradle is a good example.
|
h*i
发帖数: 3446 | 9 That's because you are not a Clojure user. Clojure's not for everyone. But
for people who like it, there's no reason to choose Java over Clojure. That'
s the truth.
You don't like it, that's fine. But denying that truth doesn't work. Because
you are not one of those people who like it.
The static vs. dynamic debate is like a religious wars, It doesn't make
sense for static people to bash dynamic people. For example, I never felt
what the static language does for me is useful. Because most of the errors
has nothing to do with static checkers can find. However, I don't go around
bashing the static languages.
【在 c******o 的大作中提到】
: That is not true, for example, I sometime really just want a strict static
: language.
: Java (8) has it use, and more so than scala and clojure.
:
: for
: better
: .
|
h*i
发帖数: 3446 | 10 They are not even on the same playing field. One represents a new paradigm.
Another is just incremental improvement on some old paradigm.
If anything computer science history has told us, is that incremental
languages will be forgotten, replaced by another incrementally improved ones
, because there are so many of them.
Those change paradigms live on.
【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: Groovy beats clojure easily in that respect. Gradle is a good example.
|
|
|
g*****g
发帖数: 34805 | 11 Replace Clojure with Jesus and you got a winner.
That'
Because
around
【在 h*i 的大作中提到】
: That's because you are not a Clojure user. Clojure's not for everyone. But
: for people who like it, there's no reason to choose Java over Clojure. That'
: s the truth.
: You don't like it, that's fine. But denying that truth doesn't work. Because
: you are not one of those people who like it.
: The static vs. dynamic debate is like a religious wars, It doesn't make
: sense for static people to bash dynamic people. For example, I never felt
: what the static language does for me is useful. Because most of the errors
: has nothing to do with static checkers can find. However, I don't go around
: bashing the static languages.
|
h*i
发帖数: 3446 | 12 Now you finally understand something. Jesus created something new, so he
lives on.
Your lack of independent thinking is appalling. Now that's another meme that
is going to live on. LOL.
【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: Replace Clojure with Jesus and you got a winner.
:
: That'
: Because
: around
|
c******o
发帖数: 1277 | 13 not bashing.
I use dynamic language everyday, like ruby/php, and even a bit clojure.
but I will not use only dynamic language, just like I will not use only
static language.
Any "only" statement is just wrong.
That'
Because
around
【在 h*i 的大作中提到】
: That's because you are not a Clojure user. Clojure's not for everyone. But
: for people who like it, there's no reason to choose Java over Clojure. That'
: s the truth.
: You don't like it, that's fine. But denying that truth doesn't work. Because
: you are not one of those people who like it.
: The static vs. dynamic debate is like a religious wars, It doesn't make
: sense for static people to bash dynamic people. For example, I never felt
: what the static language does for me is useful. Because most of the errors
: has nothing to do with static checkers can find. However, I don't go around
: bashing the static languages.
|
h*i
发帖数: 3446 | 14 I am talking a subset of people who use clojure, who have adopted Clojure as
their main language and call themselves Clojurian, Clojorist, or something
similar. For those people, there is no point using Java over Clojure. That's
my point. It's a fact.
You have nothing to say against the above point, yet you still managed to
say "it's wrong". I call that FUD. Maybe not intentional, but it is FUD
nevertheless.
【在 c******o 的大作中提到】
: not bashing.
: I use dynamic language everyday, like ruby/php, and even a bit clojure.
: but I will not use only dynamic language, just like I will not use only
: static language.
: Any "only" statement is just wrong.
:
: That'
: Because
: around
|
c******o
发帖数: 1277 | 15 Someone insist on using Clojure is fine, their choices, but what you said:
"Once Clojure is used in a team, there is simply no benefit of using Java
for
this team any more. Because whatever Java delivers, Clojure delivers better
. OOP? Check; Ecosystem? Check; "
is wrong statement. It is a general statement that is wrong. |
h*i
发帖数: 3446 | 16 Nobody said "only use dynamic language" except you.
What I am talking about is a very specific and narrow point "There is no
reason for Clojurians to use Java over Clojure".
These people may use other static languages, just not Java.
【在 c******o 的大作中提到】
: not bashing.
: I use dynamic language everyday, like ruby/php, and even a bit clojure.
: but I will not use only dynamic language, just like I will not use only
: static language.
: Any "only" statement is just wrong.
:
: That'
: Because
: around
|
c******o
发帖数: 1277 | 17 that is not what you said.
【在 h*i 的大作中提到】
: Nobody said "only use dynamic language" except you.
: What I am talking about is a very specific and narrow point "There is no
: reason for Clojurians to use Java over Clojure".
: These people may use other static languages, just not Java.
|
h*i
发帖数: 3446 | 18 You have yet to show where it is wrong.
I am standing to be corrected if you show evidence against my statement. But
you have not.
better
【在 c******o 的大作中提到】
: Someone insist on using Clojure is fine, their choices, but what you said:
: "Once Clojure is used in a team, there is simply no benefit of using Java
: for
: this team any more. Because whatever Java delivers, Clojure delivers better
: . OOP? Check; Ecosystem? Check; "
: is wrong statement. It is a general statement that is wrong.
|
h*i
发帖数: 3446 | 19 That's exactly what I said. A team that have adopted Clojure is not a team
that do some Clojure on the side. If they do the later, they are not whom I
refer to in my statement.
【在 c******o 的大作中提到】
: that is not what you said.
|
c******o
发帖数: 1277 | 20 ...
I already showed. Static JVM language is something clojure can not
substitute, and can not ever do better than in that area.
"Once Clojure is used in a team, there is simply no benefit of using Java
for this team any more."
But
【在 h*i 的大作中提到】
: You have yet to show where it is wrong.
: I am standing to be corrected if you show evidence against my statement. But
: you have not.
:
: better
|
|
|
g*****g
发帖数: 34805 | 21 Groovy didn't aim high but it will stay useful. Clojure aims to take over
the world but struggles to remain relevant. Someday another language will
succeed Java , but it's not Clojure for sure.
.
ones
【在 h*i 的大作中提到】
: They are not even on the same playing field. One represents a new paradigm.
: Another is just incremental improvement on some old paradigm.
: If anything computer science history has told us, is that incremental
: languages will be forgotten, replaced by another incrementally improved ones
: , because there are so many of them.
: Those change paradigms live on.
|
c******o
发帖数: 1277 | 22 Anyway, no point to argue any more.
"a team" is a general word. It is not just some specific teams you saw.
If it just the teams your saw, I have no problem. Just there ARE benefits
for
many "a team use clojure" to use java.
I
【在 h*i 的大作中提到】
: That's exactly what I said. A team that have adopted Clojure is not a team
: that do some Clojure on the side. If they do the later, they are not whom I
: refer to in my statement.
|
g*****g
发帖数: 34805 | 23 You forgot one simple truth, Clojure is not Jesus. Your lacking of
fundamental logic is astonishing.
that
【在 h*i 的大作中提到】
: Now you finally understand something. Jesus created something new, so he
: lives on.
: Your lack of independent thinking is appalling. Now that's another meme that
: is going to live on. LOL.
|
h*i
发帖数: 3446 | 24 What you need to show is this "A team that has adopted Clojure as the main
language, decided to abandon it later, due to this or that reasons".
What you have shown, is one of the hypothetical reasons that could happen,
in your mind.
Got it? Why it's so hard? It's just logic. Follow the logic, don't jump
around in your mind.
【在 c******o 的大作中提到】
: ...
: I already showed. Static JVM language is something clojure can not
: substitute, and can not ever do better than in that area.
: "Once Clojure is used in a team, there is simply no benefit of using Java
: for this team any more."
:
: But
|
c******o
发帖数: 1277 | 25 Why they have to abandon? I said java has benefit for team use clojure. Why
should they abandon clojure?
I write code in scala/clojure/java 8 daily, some more, some less.
【在 h*i 的大作中提到】
: What you need to show is this "A team that has adopted Clojure as the main
: language, decided to abandon it later, due to this or that reasons".
: What you have shown, is one of the hypothetical reasons that could happen,
: in your mind.
: Got it? Why it's so hard? It's just logic. Follow the logic, don't jump
: around in your mind.
|
g*****g
发帖数: 34805 | 26 There's no reason for Mormons to believe Zen. We all get it, no need
repeating.
【在 h*i 的大作中提到】
: Nobody said "only use dynamic language" except you.
: What I am talking about is a very specific and narrow point "There is no
: reason for Clojurians to use Java over Clojure".
: These people may use other static languages, just not Java.
|
h*i
发帖数: 3446 | 27 I don't think Clojure aims to take over the world. How could a language do
that? It's illogical.
Some people who advocate the language may aims at that. I doubt that is a
wise exercise. Because no one can predict the future. (Except maybe someone
who claims himself a prophet can? LOL. What a nut case).
【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: Groovy didn't aim high but it will stay useful. Clojure aims to take over
: the world but struggles to remain relevant. Someday another language will
: succeed Java , but it's not Clojure for sure.
:
: .
: ones
|
h*i
发帖数: 3446 | 28 So it's wrong to claim other people's statement is wrong without evidence or
even understanding the statement. Agree?
【在 c******o 的大作中提到】
: Anyway, no point to argue any more.
: "a team" is a general word. It is not just some specific teams you saw.
: If it just the teams your saw, I have no problem. Just there ARE benefits
: for
: many "a team use clojure" to use java.
:
: I
|
c******o
发帖数: 1277 | 29 You used "a team", man, check this:
https://owl.english.purdue.edu/owl/resource/540/01/
or
【在 h*i 的大作中提到】
: So it's wrong to claim other people's statement is wrong without evidence or
: even understanding the statement. Agree?
|
h*i
发帖数: 3446 | 30 Yut are talking about yourself again. I was talking about myself.
However, the difference is that I did not say "you are wrong", but you did.
That's the problem here. You think yours is correct, others are wrong. And
you think you are not bashing? But other people don't think so.
Why
【在 c******o 的大作中提到】
: Why they have to abandon? I said java has benefit for team use clojure. Why
: should they abandon clojure?
: I write code in scala/clojure/java 8 daily, some more, some less.
|
|
|
g*****g
发帖数: 34805 | 31 No one can predict the future precisely. But someones can make much better
educated guesses than others, just like how history is being unfolded. You
can't argue against the track record.
someone
【在 h*i 的大作中提到】
: I don't think Clojure aims to take over the world. How could a language do
: that? It's illogical.
: Some people who advocate the language may aims at that. I doubt that is a
: wise exercise. Because no one can predict the future. (Except maybe someone
: who claims himself a prophet can? LOL. What a nut case).
|
h*i
发帖数: 3446 | 32 Now you are getting smarter. Progress!
【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: There's no reason for Mormons to believe Zen. We all get it, no need
: repeating.
|
g*****g
发帖数: 34805 | 33 And you too, the sky is not falling, but it's your freedom to play chicken
little.
【在 h*i 的大作中提到】
: Now you are getting smarter. Progress!
|
h*i
发帖数: 3446 | 34 Don't be shy! We all know you insists that you are a prophet.
【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: No one can predict the future precisely. But someones can make much better
: educated guesses than others, just like how history is being unfolded. You
: can't argue against the track record.
:
: someone
|
h*i
发帖数: 3446 | 35 Your problem is trying too hard to play "伟大光荣正确“ on this board. There
's no need. Or put more harshly: "Get a life".
【在 c******o 的大作中提到】
: You used "a team", man, check this:
: https://owl.english.purdue.edu/owl/resource/540/01/
:
: or
|
g*****g
发帖数: 34805 | 36 I am surprised at how accurate I am so far. I doubt one in the opposite
position dare to feel shame on me. It feels good to stay on the right side,
doesn't it?
【在 h*i 的大作中提到】
: Don't be shy! We all know you insists that you are a prophet.
|
h*i
发帖数: 3446 | 37 "Yes, you are such a humble and unintentional prophet. We bow to you!"
Seriously, you know what? You are starting really really playing the part of
a prophet.
That's not healthy, I mean mentally.
【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: I am surprised at how accurate I am so far. I doubt one in the opposite
: position dare to feel shame on me. It feels good to stay on the right side,
: doesn't it?
|
g*****g
发帖数: 34805 | 38 Should I care your judgement as you've proved yourself wrong every time?
of
【在 h*i 的大作中提到】
: "Yes, you are such a humble and unintentional prophet. We bow to you!"
: Seriously, you know what? You are starting really really playing the part of
: a prophet.
: That's not healthy, I mean mentally.
|
h*i
发帖数: 3446 | 39 You are a prophet, of course you should not care. It doesn't fit the part.
So go ahead. Put some magical spells on us infidels, condemn us!
【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: Should I care your judgement as you've proved yourself wrong every time?
:
: of
|
g*****g
发帖数: 34805 | 40 Don't worry, you are a Mormon and I believe in Zen, I am not your prophet
even if I am right. It's OK I am doomed in your world.
【在 h*i 的大作中提到】
: You are a prophet, of course you should not care. It doesn't fit the part.
: So go ahead. Put some magical spells on us infidels, condemn us!
|
|
|
h*i
发帖数: 3446 | 41 Then don't bash us every chance you got. Just stop it.
But you can't, because it's your lack of self-control that makes you a "
prophet". You are just not capable of it.
【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: Don't worry, you are a Mormon and I believe in Zen, I am not your prophet
: even if I am right. It's OK I am doomed in your world.
|
g*****g
发帖数: 34805 | 42 I didn't bash you. I just pointed out some simple facts, like you're wrong
more often than not for your claims on this board. Man up, all right, don't
cry foul every time I do that.
【在 h*i 的大作中提到】
: Then don't bash us every chance you got. Just stop it.
: But you can't, because it's your lack of self-control that makes you a "
: prophet". You are just not capable of it.
|
h*i
发帖数: 3446 | 43 Can you NOT be the last person speak in a thread?
You just cannot help yourself. Don't you? You need a doctor. At least find a
hobby or something. It's for your own good.
【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: I didn't bash you. I just pointed out some simple facts, like you're wrong
: more often than not for your claims on this board. Man up, all right, don't
: cry foul every time I do that.
|
g*****g
发帖数: 34805 | 44 And you did just that? Man, you don't need a doctor, you need a mirror.
a
【在 h*i 的大作中提到】
: Can you NOT be the last person speak in a thread?
: You just cannot help yourself. Don't you? You need a doctor. At least find a
: hobby or something. It's for your own good.
|
