w**z
发帖数: 8232 | 1 http://www.wired.com/2014/11/microsoft-open-sources-net-says-wi
Satya Nadella’s rapid reinvention of Microsoft continues.
In yet another bid to make up lost ground in the long march to the future of
computing, Microsoft is now open sourcing the very foundation of .NET—the
software that millions of developers use to build and operate websites and
other large online applications—and it says this free code will eventually
run not only on computer servers that use its own Windows operating system,
but also atop machines equipped with Linux or Apple’s Mac OS, Microsoft’s
two main operating system rivals.
“We want to have a developer offering that is relevant and attractive and
valuable to any developer working on any kind of application,” says S. “
Soma” Somasegar, the 25-year Microsoft veteran oversees the company’s wide
range of tools for software developers.
S. “Soma” Somasegar.
S. “Soma” Somasegar. courtesy Microsoft
With the move, Microsoft is embracing the reality that modern software and
online services run atop a variety of operating systems—and that Windows no
longer dominates the market the way it once did. At least tacitly, the
software giant is acknowledging that so many businesses and developers now
choose to run their software atop computer servers loaded with the open
source Linux operating system, which, in recent years, has evolved in ways
that Windows has not. Most notably, it offers what’s called containers, a
new means of streamlining the way applications are built and operated.
“Today, people who are stuck on the .NET platform have to use a server
environment that doesn’t have what Linux does,” says James Watters, who,
at a company called Pivotal, works hand-and-hand with a wide range of
developers and companies as they build large online software applications.
“They’re stuck with a generation-behind technology.”
For Watters, Microsoft has ample ground to make up. But in opening sourcing
what’s called the .NET Core runtime—freely sharing it with the world at
large—the company at least gives itself a fighting chance as it seeks to
maintain a hold on the way the world builds and runs software.
In theory, an open source .NET that runs on Linux and Mac OS will expand the
use of Microsoft’s developer tools. Then the company can pull in revenue
through other channels—through premium versions of its developer tools and
through its cloud computing service, Microsoft Azure, a means of building
and running software without setting up your own servers.
The move is just the latest in a long line of rather large changes Microsoft
has made since Nadella took over as CEO in January—all with an eye towards
the rise of rival operating systems and open source software. The company
now offers free versions of its Office applications for Apple iPhones and
iPads. It provides a free version of Windows for phones and other small
devices, hoping to catch up with Google’s open source Android operating
system. And it says that the next version of Windows for computer servers
will run Docker, a hugely important container technology that was originally
built on Linux.
All this seemed unlikely under previous CEO Steve Ballmer—and all can help
Microsoft find new relevance in the ever-changing world of online computing.
Chasing Java
Among developers and businesses building websites and other large online
services, .NET is one of the primary competitors to Java. It’s widely used
among companies that rely heavily on Microsoft software —the company says .
NET was installed more than 1.8 billion times over the last year—but
according to most estimates, Java is still the more popular tool. And many
consider it the more powerful.
According to Watters, about 60 percent of Pivotal’s customers built their
apps atop Java, about 40 percent on .NET. “Java is the go-to, and .NET is
the legacy,” he says.
‘YOU HAVE TO SUPPORT ANY PLATFORM A DEVELOPER WANTS TO USE.’
Both provide a “virtual machine” where you can execute the applications
you build—a foundational piece of software that sits on a computer server
or a PC or a smartphone, providing a way of more efficiently and more
conveniently running your applications. In essence, you use the Java
programming language to build software that runs atop the Java virtual
machine, and you use Microsoft’s C# language to fashion code that runs atop
.NET.
The main difference that Java is largely open source and its virtual machine
runs atop so many different operating systems. .NET only runs on Windows—
though an independent project called Mono has built an open source mimic of
.NET that runs on other operating systems, including everything from Linux
server OSes to smartphones OSes such as Apple’s iOS and Google’s Android.
This means that .NET—though enormously popular—is behind the curve. “You
have to support any platform a developer wants to use,” says Andrew Lee,
who helps run Google’s cloud computing services.
In open sourcing the .NET virtual machine (essentially, the .NET Core
runtime) and associated software libraries, Microsoft hopes to do that.
Basically, after open sourcing the code, the company will work with outside
developers—including those behind the Mono project—to build versions of
the .NET virtual machine that run on Linux and the Mac OS. Previously,
Microsoft open sourced other parts of .NET that will help facilitate such
work.
The move to Linux is the big change, considering that the open source OS is
now such as an important part of the way companies run modern online
services. With .NET on Mac OS, the point is that this will make it easier
for developers to build software for Linux servers. So many programmers
build their code on their personal Mac laptops and desktops before running
it on Linux.
Miguel de Icaza, the founder of the Mono project and the chief technology
officer at Xamarin, a company that has commercialized the Mono software,
believes all this will indeed expand the audience for .NET. “This should
grab a lot of people who were on the fence—people who had to choose between
.NET and something else,” he says. “For a lot of people, it was a deal
breaker that it didn’t run on Linux.”
Open Source Windows?
It should be said, however, that Microsoft has merely taken a first step
towards a world where .NET runs beyond the Windows universe. The code that
will allow the software to run on Linux and Mac OS has not yet been built.
“It will be a few months before you can get your hand on this,” Somasegar
says.
But things are at least moving in the right direction. According to
Somasegar, engineers within Microsoft have discussed doing this kind of
thing for a good 12 years, and now, with Nadella at the helm, the company is
actually making it happen.
Somasegar doesn’t give Nadella all the credit for such big changes, but he
acknowledges that the new CEO has played an important role. “He is very
good at driving forward, moving forward. Status quo, standing still, is not
an option when you’re under that guy,” Somasegar says. “What he has
helped us all do is continue with what we have been all been thinking about
for a while now—and sort of kicking it into a higher gear.”
Yet James Watters believes the company should go further. An open source .
NET will make Microsoft software more appealing to developers, he says, but
perhaps not as appealing as the combination of Linux and Java or some other
programming platform. Though .NET will be open source—giving coders the
power to shape the code to their particularly needs—there’s other rather
important Microsoft software that’s still unlikely to evolve as quickly as
other tools.
“This is great,” Watters says of an open source .NET, “but it would be
even more powerful if they made their operating system open source too.
Those .NET runtime facilities interface with low-level libraries in the OS.
If the entire stack is open source, folks can really optimize things.”
Yes, he’s calling on Microsoft to open source its crown jewels: Windows. |
p***c
发帖数: 5202 | |
s***o
发帖数: 2191 | 3 very good move, probably a little too late |
W***o
发帖数: 6519 | 4 so java welcomes a new rival - C# ?
【在 s***o 的大作中提到】
: very good move, probably a little too late
|
g*****g
发帖数: 34805 | 5 It can gain some traction on desktop if you can write an app and run the
same code on Windows and Mac. On server side, M$ is generations behind and
it doesn't have the ecosystem to compete. |
r***y
发帖数: 4379 | 6 well said.
but desktop market keep on shrinking, so M$ effort is going nowhere...
【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: It can gain some traction on desktop if you can write an app and run the
: same code on Windows and Mac. On server side, M$ is generations behind and
: it doesn't have the ecosystem to compete.
|
w**z
发帖数: 8232 | 7 don't under estimate what Microsoft can do. They have pile of cash and large
user base. They will make some noises. Look at what they have done to
netscape. But they failed more recently. In general, I think it's too late
for Microsoft and Windows is losing market share.
【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: It can gain some traction on desktop if you can write an app and run the
: same code on Windows and Mac. On server side, M$ is generations behind and
: it doesn't have the ecosystem to compete.
|
r***y
发帖数: 4379 | 8 no way, there is a something called ecosystem...
but they can try to compile to Java ... :-)
【在 W***o 的大作中提到】
: so java welcomes a new rival - C# ?
|
|
g*****g
发帖数: 34805 | 9 When was last time M$ came from behind, XBox? And their opponents are some
slow Japanese. This is no longer the case. And M$ had no incentive to make
their Linux VM run as fast as
Windows counterparts. Otherwise they may pick up some VS licenses and lose
on Windows server and M$SQL server licenses. You all know how that math
works.
large
【在 w**z 的大作中提到】
: don't under estimate what Microsoft can do. They have pile of cash and large
: user base. They will make some noises. Look at what they have done to
: netscape. But they failed more recently. In general, I think it's too late
: for Microsoft and Windows is losing market share.
|
r***s
发帖数: 737 | 10 在大佬们升到陆奇或者沈向洋的位置之前，先不用指点江山了。 替古人担忧
谁也不因为你预测多准多给你一分钱
有功夫的看看，爱钻研的学学，没工夫拉倒。 你我码农拿钱干活，多看几个平台
没啥坏处。
lose
【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: When was last time M$ came from behind, XBox? And their opponents are some
: slow Japanese. This is no longer the case. And M$ had no incentive to make
: their Linux VM run as fast as
: Windows counterparts. Otherwise they may pick up some VS licenses and lose
: on Windows server and M$SQL server licenses. You all know how that math
: works.
:
: large
|
|
|
g*****g
发帖数: 34805 | 11 不多得一分钱没错，别掉坑里去可以避免少得很多分钱。
【在 r***s 的大作中提到】
: 在大佬们升到陆奇或者沈向洋的位置之前，先不用指点江山了。 替古人担忧
: 谁也不因为你预测多准多给你一分钱
: 有功夫的看看，爱钻研的学学，没工夫拉倒。 你我码农拿钱干活，多看几个平台
: 没啥坏处。
:
: lose
|
N********n
发帖数: 8363 | 12 1st bad decision by Nadella. This is waste of time now that they
have to maintain separate code bases for platforms generating
little profit.
It probably boils down to the false belief that they have to get
into the IOT business while IOT is already a bubble. Even at the
peak of this bubble these IOT darlings such as Yelp, Aribnb, Twit
and so on can not turn profitable. Imagine what it'd look like
once the bubble goes away. They are not working on long term
success. They just want quick IPO money and then they are gone so
what is MSFT doing here in IOT?
It's like watching an inexperienced trader chasing high of a stock
that is topping. This is bad. |
r***y
发帖数: 4379 | 13 没啥好争的, 这玩意儿如人饮水... 谁难受谁心里清楚. |
r***s
发帖数: 737 | 14 就一个破程序语言也能成了坑，能掉进去的人也不用混了。
就说Java，五年前到现在变了多少，上面干类似事情的不同系统
又有多少，每个系统都一个坑，大家都死了算了
【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: 不多得一分钱没错，别掉坑里去可以避免少得很多分钱。
|
g*****g
发帖数: 34805 | 15 你这是不肯面对现实吗？这两年多少人从C++转Java，你觉得他们的经验积累又有多少
能用上？
【在 r***s 的大作中提到】
: 就一个破程序语言也能成了坑，能掉进去的人也不用混了。
: 就说Java，五年前到现在变了多少，上面干类似事情的不同系统
: 又有多少，每个系统都一个坑，大家都死了算了
|
r***s
发帖数: 737 | 16 当驴的话自然用不上，编程做了四五年还跳不出语言的壁垒只能说太弱。
【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: 你这是不肯面对现实吗？这两年多少人从C++转Java，你觉得他们的经验积累又有多少
: 能用上？
|
r***s
发帖数: 737 | 17 还有就是贵公司如果只看重某种语言甚至某种framework的经验，而不看
一个人分析和解决问题的能力，恐怕目光短浅了一些。
幸好现在时髦的公司flg之类招人的时候都不管你原来用啥语言。
【在 r***s 的大作中提到】
: 当驴的话自然用不上，编程做了四五年还跳不出语言的壁垒只能说太弱。
|
z****e
发帖数: 54598 | 18 是没坏处，但是首选也是ios，apple那些富得流油的平台
m$的平台不行了，没啥人愿意投入
【在 r***s 的大作中提到】
: 在大佬们升到陆奇或者沈向洋的位置之前，先不用指点江山了。 替古人担忧
: 谁也不因为你预测多准多给你一分钱
: 有功夫的看看，爱钻研的学学，没工夫拉倒。 你我码农拿钱干活，多看几个平台
: 没啥坏处。
:
: lose
|
z****e
发帖数: 54598 | 19 没变多少
java5年前跟现在就一个版本的差异
7其实对语法没有太大改变，6->7主要在搞图像和dynamic language
基本上如果只是用java的话，6到7没有太大差异
8加了lambda，这个稍微有点变化
【在 r***s 的大作中提到】
: 就一个破程序语言也能成了坑，能掉进去的人也不用混了。
: 就说Java，五年前到现在变了多少，上面干类似事情的不同系统
: 又有多少，每个系统都一个坑，大家都死了算了
|
z****e
发帖数: 54598 | 20 所以你打算50岁之后继续刷题？
面试时候继续做题？
【在 r***s 的大作中提到】
: 还有就是贵公司如果只看重某种语言甚至某种framework的经验，而不看
: 一个人分析和解决问题的能力，恐怕目光短浅了一些。
: 幸好现在时髦的公司flg之类招人的时候都不管你原来用啥语言。
|
|
|
g*****g
发帖数: 34805 | 21 因为我们招人进来是要立刻干活的，FLG半年没指望你checkin，招的大部分人是fresh
。你到startup，大部分是前者。
【在 r***s 的大作中提到】
: 还有就是贵公司如果只看重某种语言甚至某种framework的经验，而不看
: 一个人分析和解决问题的能力，恐怕目光短浅了一些。
: 幸好现在时髦的公司flg之类招人的时候都不管你原来用啥语言。
|
r***s
发帖数: 737 | 22 so what?
再说程序语言和各种平台是变化最快的，抱着任何一种语言不放难道是出路？
多试几种技术，看看各方的长短难道不是涨能力的最好办法？
另外半年前我还真在一道题没刷的情况下被L挖来着。看在现在老板（国人）的面子上
没跳。
【在 z****e 的大作中提到】
: 所以你打算50岁之后继续刷题？
: 面试时候继续做题？
|
r***s
发帖数: 737 | 23 原来贵公司就是招驴的，多谢指教。
fresh
【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: 因为我们招人进来是要立刻干活的，FLG半年没指望你checkin，招的大部分人是fresh
: 。你到startup，大部分是前者。
|
g*****g
发帖数: 34805 | 24 抱着有前途的语言当然是出路。否则大家为啥要做朝阳工业，不做夕阳工业。你也可以
一个行业不行了换个行业。说起来各个行业都懂太涨能力了。
【在 r***s 的大作中提到】
: so what?
: 再说程序语言和各种平台是变化最快的，抱着任何一种语言不放难道是出路？
: 多试几种技术，看看各方的长短难道不是涨能力的最好办法？
: 另外半年前我还真在一道题没刷的情况下被L挖来着。看在现在老板（国人）的面子上
: 没跳。
|
g*****g
发帖数: 34805 | 25 hot startup都是招驴的，君不见flg混过了纷纷往hot startup跳呢。能做驴是能力。
【在 r***s 的大作中提到】
: 原来贵公司就是招驴的，多谢指教。
:
: fresh
|
z****e
发帖数: 54598 | 26 那也不是无差别地选择
难道你现在打算再去试delphi？
【在 r***s 的大作中提到】
: so what?
: 再说程序语言和各种平台是变化最快的，抱着任何一种语言不放难道是出路？
: 多试几种技术，看看各方的长短难道不是涨能力的最好办法？
: 另外半年前我还真在一道题没刷的情况下被L挖来着。看在现在老板（国人）的面子上
: 没跳。
|
r***s
发帖数: 737 | 27 曾几何时 cobol 也是“有前途”的来着
被你看不起的c++也曾经风光无限
抱着吧，好好抱着。
行业和程序语言能一样么？c++ 程序员学java半天就能上手，熟悉一个framework里的
api
有个吧月够了，至于系统里面精妙的东西，像什么情况下哪种库cost高之类的，学的快慢
看个人悟性，和以前的经验，说到底这和语言关系不大，和具体实现方法关系更大。
你从计算机转生物，半年连名词还没搞清楚呢
【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: 抱着有前途的语言当然是出路。否则大家为啥要做朝阳工业，不做夕阳工业。你也可以
: 一个行业不行了换个行业。说起来各个行业都懂太涨能力了。
|
r***s
发帖数: 737 | 28 按您前面的逻辑，合着google里面的c++程序员都呆着呢，跳的都是java程序员。
哎不对，google 里java framework也都是自己写的，跟别人不通用。哎所以google的人
上哪都找不着工作
【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: hot startup都是招驴的，君不见flg混过了纷纷往hot startup跳呢。能做驴是能力。
|
g*****g
发帖数: 34805 | 29 你觉得而已。混口饭吃跟在风口上飞是两码事。像我说的上来就要干活的，类库你还没
熟悉呢，都被干掉了。
快慢
【在 r***s 的大作中提到】
: 曾几何时 cobol 也是“有前途”的来着
: 被你看不起的c++也曾经风光无限
: 抱着吧，好好抱着。
: 行业和程序语言能一样么？c++ 程序员学java半天就能上手，熟悉一个framework里的
: api
: 有个吧月够了，至于系统里面精妙的东西，像什么情况下哪种库cost高之类的，学的快慢
: 看个人悟性，和以前的经验，说到底这和语言关系不大，和具体实现方法关系更大。
: 你从计算机转生物，半年连名词还没搞清楚呢
|
r***s
发帖数: 737 | 30 算您赢了行了吧。我认错
我他妈干嘛在这浪费时间，回去写程序了。
【在 z****e 的大作中提到】
: 那也不是无差别地选择
: 难道你现在打算再去试delphi？
|
|
|
g*****g
发帖数: 34805 | 31 这个倒不至于，但总有面宽面窄的问题。Google的人还好，要是换上M$里做.Net的，就
不那么乐观了。
的人
【在 r***s 的大作中提到】
: 按您前面的逻辑，合着google里面的c++程序员都呆着呢，跳的都是java程序员。
: 哎不对，google 里java framework也都是自己写的，跟别人不通用。哎所以google的人
: 上哪都找不着工作
|
z****e
发帖数: 54598 | 32 google最近又开始low ball了
你真以为资本家是开慈善饭馆的？
免费送吃送喝？
没有什么东西是很难的
具体到细节上看
就跟英语一样，每个单词你翻番字典都会
甚至包括数学，每一步骤，只要老师给你解释了
你也都能看懂，区别就在于，你需要个把月
但是资本家要求你马上就会，市场化竞争是红果果的
时间就是金钱，个把月，你能在这个把月内倒贴一万刀给资本家做学费么？
的人
【在 r***s 的大作中提到】
: 按您前面的逻辑，合着google里面的c++程序员都呆着呢，跳的都是java程序员。
: 哎不对，google 里java framework也都是自己写的，跟别人不通用。哎所以google的人
: 上哪都找不着工作
|
r***y
发帖数: 4379 | 33 诶, 有些小年轻啊, 就是感觉好的觉得自己靠智商能够碾压一切... |
d*******r
发帖数: 3299 | 34 我怎么觉得这样的话，.NET, Mono 在 client 端 (包括 desktop, mobile) 肯定能火
呢 |
n*****j
发帖数: 18 | 35 我读过大部分.net和core java的source code的. 感觉语言层面和设计层面，.net更精
妙 |
z****e
发帖数: 54598 | 36 难
ios和android都是平台
这些平台自己有自己的vm
不见得一定需要一个跨平台的东西
尤其这个东西还是微软的
名声不太好
不过将来肯定会出现很多framework
能够让android/java -> ios/win
或者ios/swift -> android/win
或者win/c# -> android/ios
这种，其实有几个已经有了
【在 d*******r 的大作中提到】
: 我怎么觉得这样的话，.NET, Mono 在 client 端 (包括 desktop, mobile) 肯定能火
: 呢
|
p**r
发帖数: 5853 | 37 技术争论争论也就算了，
赚钱有啥好说的。
很多项目都最后能推出就已经烧高香了，
谈性能，逻辑，算法其实也就是学术界的问题，
现实生活就是出货数钱，继续打补丁数钱，实在不行推倒重建数钱。
别说给客户干活，就是给自己干活，
如果什么细节你都要做到完美化，
估计到60岁不知道beta能否出。
程序就是一个嫁豪门的妹子的养成，
你丫天天琢磨自己行为举止是否优雅，谈吐是否得体，
还没等你修炼成，
漫山遍野的那种劣质糙货早就把汉子都给占了，
比如月光这种，人家采用撒网战术，
一个版臭了，换个版，
美女多的版不行，到和尚级的程序版，
再丑再垃圾的女的，她斗不过其他女的，她还斗不过男的。
不过话说，这年头还真说不准，哈哈。 |
a********c
发帖数: 3657 | 38 这话说的靠谱，能赚钱才是王道。
【在 p**r 的大作中提到】
: 技术争论争论也就算了，
: 赚钱有啥好说的。
: 很多项目都最后能推出就已经烧高香了，
: 谈性能，逻辑，算法其实也就是学术界的问题，
: 现实生活就是出货数钱，继续打补丁数钱，实在不行推倒重建数钱。
: 别说给客户干活，就是给自己干活，
: 如果什么细节你都要做到完美化，
: 估计到60岁不知道beta能否出。
: 程序就是一个嫁豪门的妹子的养成，
: 你丫天天琢磨自己行为举止是否优雅，谈吐是否得体，
|
c********1
发帖数: 421 | 39 fresh和能出活其实是两回事
一些senior的，尤其是阿三，能忽悠，但不出话。大企业养得起，startup可是避之不急
一些fresh，之前就有实践经验，这些人思路活，productivity高
而且要钱又少
我最喜欢招这些人
fresh
【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: 因为我们招人进来是要立刻干活的，FLG半年没指望你checkin，招的大部分人是fresh
: 。你到startup，大部分是前者。
|
