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Programming版 - C# is light-years ahead of Java now
相关主题
《C# 5.0 核心技术》第5版[PDF]其实吧,C#是最好的语言。。。
Java 8 闪亮发布了看魏老师和好虫论战,总结一句话
其实微软是个做语言的公司NASDAQ match engine is written in Java
JAVA generic programming 是怎么实现的?Go什么时候可能支持Generic?
C到底能走多远。。。。。。每次转换数据,看到var就想杀人
这个C#是为了啥?写SPARK程序很痛苦啊
[新手]一直都把C++当Java写,有啥严重不妥?C# vs java
C#说实际上更多是java拷贝C#概念。How to return an array in a C++ function?
相关话题的讨论汇总
话题: java话题: c#话题: net话题: sql话题: c++
1 (共1页)
n*w
发帖数: 3393
1
"Since then, both the language and the execution environment have continued
to evolve and improve. C# went from being a slightly better Java to be light
-years ahead. From embracing dynamic programming, bring asynchronicity into
the language, introduce iterators, functional programming constructs,
embrace parallelism and got a great implementation of generics. Many of the
these features came from the research done by Don Syme and his F# team that
have kept a steady flow of new ideas getting injected into the language."
http://blog.xamarin.com/2012/05/01/android-in-c-sharp/
m*******l
发帖数: 12782
2
wait and see

continued
light
into
the
that

【在 n*w 的大作中提到】
: "Since then, both the language and the execution environment have continued
: to evolve and improve. C# went from being a slightly better Java to be light
: -years ahead. From embracing dynamic programming, bring asynchronicity into
: the language, introduce iterators, functional programming constructs,
: embrace parallelism and got a great implementation of generics. Many of the
: these features came from the research done by Don Syme and his F# team that
: have kept a steady flow of new ideas getting injected into the language."
: http://blog.xamarin.com/2012/05/01/android-in-c-sharp/

g*****g
发帖数: 34805
3
LOL, you can pull a ton of features into the language. It makes it
bloated, but it doens't necessarily make it better.
You can do asynchrous programming in java. personally I've done a ton
of it. You can't do functional programming but hey, it's an OO language,
if you really want it, you can use Scala and it interoperates with java
fine. There a lot of languages running on JVM that can complement Java
for specific domain. They are not part of java language, and they shouldn't
have to.

continued
light
into
the
that

【在 n*w 的大作中提到】
: "Since then, both the language and the execution environment have continued
: to evolve and improve. C# went from being a slightly better Java to be light
: -years ahead. From embracing dynamic programming, bring asynchronicity into
: the language, introduce iterators, functional programming constructs,
: embrace parallelism and got a great implementation of generics. Many of the
: these features came from the research done by Don Syme and his F# team that
: have kept a steady flow of new ideas getting injected into the language."
: http://blog.xamarin.com/2012/05/01/android-in-c-sharp/

n*w
发帖数: 3393
4
就拿asynchrous programming一点来说:基本上支持multiple thread的高级语言都能
写出asynchronous programming的。用几行能完成和用几十行,几百行能完成是有质的
差别的。

t

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: LOL, you can pull a ton of features into the language. It makes it
: bloated, but it doens't necessarily make it better.
: You can do asynchrous programming in java. personally I've done a ton
: of it. You can't do functional programming but hey, it's an OO language,
: if you really want it, you can use Scala and it interoperates with java
: fine. There a lot of languages running on JVM that can complement Java
: for specific domain. They are not part of java language, and they shouldn't
: have to.
:
: continued

g*****g
发帖数: 34805
5
事实就是大型企业应用,.net比JEE差了太多,你再悲愤也没用。
诸如async programming,Java有大量第三方的类库来干这个,
完成起来比.net简单有效。.net一点syntax sugar的帮助是及其有限的,
不要拿helloworld来说事。
用行数来比更是可笑的。大量functional language可以写得很简洁,
没有错,行数可以少很多倍,但是完成同样的逻辑需要的时间不会
更少,日后维护也需要花更多的时间,因为不容易理解。

【在 n*w 的大作中提到】
: 就拿asynchrous programming一点来说:基本上支持multiple thread的高级语言都能
: 写出asynchronous programming的。用几行能完成和用几十行,几百行能完成是有质的
: 差别的。
:
: t

n*w
发帖数: 3393
6
悲愤?菌斑的常用词。
对Java最失望的是其generics.
那个Java的async programming类库比较常用?google了一下还没有找到。

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: 事实就是大型企业应用,.net比JEE差了太多,你再悲愤也没用。
: 诸如async programming,Java有大量第三方的类库来干这个,
: 完成起来比.net简单有效。.net一点syntax sugar的帮助是及其有限的,
: 不要拿helloworld来说事。
: 用行数来比更是可笑的。大量functional language可以写得很简洁,
: 没有错,行数可以少很多倍,但是完成同样的逻辑需要的时间不会
: 更少,日后维护也需要花更多的时间,因为不容易理解。

g*****g
发帖数: 34805
7
看你要做啥了,JMS,Netty都是常见的框架。喜欢用Actor还有Akka

【在 n*w 的大作中提到】
: 悲愤?菌斑的常用词。
: 对Java最失望的是其generics.
: 那个Java的async programming类库比较常用?google了一下还没有找到。

n*w
发帖数: 3393
8
有些小系统,或某些ui实现上用jms,actor framework有杀鸡用牛刀的感觉。

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: 看你要做啥了,JMS,Netty都是常见的框架。喜欢用Actor还有Akka
g*****g
发帖数: 34805
9
小系统上用async programming本来大多就是杀鸡用牛刀。
UI不过几个线程,还算不上async programming

【在 n*w 的大作中提到】
: 有些小系统,或某些ui实现上用jms,actor framework有杀鸡用牛刀的感觉。
n*w
发帖数: 3393
10
对functional language专家来说。
写起来简单。维护起来是又简洁又容易懂。

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: 小系统上用async programming本来大多就是杀鸡用牛刀。
: UI不过几个线程,还算不上async programming

相关主题
这个C#是为了啥?其实吧,C#是最好的语言。。。
[新手]一直都把C++当Java写,有啥严重不妥?看魏老师和好虫论战,总结一句话
C#说实际上更多是java拷贝C#概念。NASDAQ match engine is written in Java
g*****g
发帖数: 34805
11
一个人的项目,有可能,可惜稍微大一点的项目都需要一个团队,
而且要维护好几年。要找合适的人本身就不容易,而且就算找到了,
这些functional langugage的专家还经常看不懂其他专家写的代码。
因为同一个东西写法太多了。

【在 n*w 的大作中提到】
: 对functional language专家来说。
: 写起来简单。维护起来是又简洁又容易懂。

n*w
发帖数: 3393
12
gui上实现经常要访问慢的io的程序。很容易用synchrous的方式实现。缺点是读写的时
候程序就死在那里。这时候一个容易实现的lightweight async programming就很有用
了。

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: 小系统上用async programming本来大多就是杀鸡用牛刀。
: UI不过几个线程,还算不上async programming

g*****g
发帖数: 34805
13
像这么简单的活,Java NIO足够了。嫌NIO不够强大,Netty,Mina都可以。
都很轻量级。

【在 n*w 的大作中提到】
: gui上实现经常要访问慢的io的程序。很容易用synchrous的方式实现。缺点是读写的时
: 候程序就死在那里。这时候一个容易实现的lightweight async programming就很有用
: 了。

n*w
发帖数: 3393
14
同意这个,一个大项目用haskell,f#之类的可能比较难找人。所以觉得c#这种慢慢引
入的方式很有用。这个link有些例子 http://www.hanselman.com/blog/BackToBasicsMovingBeyondForIfAndSwitch.aspx?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+ScottHanselman+%28Scott+Hanselman+-+ComputerZen.com%29&utm_content=Google+Feedfetcher

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: 一个人的项目,有可能,可惜稍微大一点的项目都需要一个团队,
: 而且要维护好几年。要找合适的人本身就不容易,而且就算找到了,
: 这些functional langugage的专家还经常看不懂其他专家写的代码。
: 因为同一个东西写法太多了。

n*w
发帖数: 3393
15
轻量级async framework的好处是不够是file system io,web service访问,还是调用
第三方程序、、、、都一样对待。

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: 像这么简单的活,Java NIO足够了。嫌NIO不够强大,Netty,Mina都可以。
: 都很轻量级。

g*****g
发帖数: 34805
16
没错,Netty就可以。同样的代码,同步和异步就是改一两行而已。

【在 n*w 的大作中提到】
: 轻量级async framework的好处是不够是file system io,web service访问,还是调用
: 第三方程序、、、、都一样对待。

g*****g
发帖数: 34805
17
As I said, you can check Scala, it's way more functional and powerful than C#
if you are talking about syntax. It's useful in certain aspects and projects,
but it has no way to replace Java. And it's not better, it's just different.
Functional programming is not new. If it's going to be mainsteam, it would
have been mainstream for a few decades by now.

【在 n*w 的大作中提到】
: 同意这个,一个大项目用haskell,f#之类的可能比较难找人。所以觉得c#这种慢慢引
: 入的方式很有用。这个link有些例子 http://www.hanselman.com/blog/BackToBasicsMovingBeyondForIfAndSwitch.aspx?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+ScottHanselman+%28Scott+Hanselman+-+ComputerZen.com%29&utm_content=Google+Feedfetcher

z***e
发帖数: 5393
18
你也太过拥护java了,不管第三方怎么怎么,从语言本身来说,C#就是比Java好用。楼
主那段话就是只针对language本身而已。另外就算java,我发现慢慢地很多功能也在被
很多其它的取代。以前说到backend似乎都要依赖java做点什么什么,现在python/node
/memcached等语言和工具也取代了很多以前java在backend的工作。

C#
projects,
different.

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: As I said, you can check Scala, it's way more functional and powerful than C#
: if you are talking about syntax. It's useful in certain aspects and projects,
: but it has no way to replace Java. And it's not better, it's just different.
: Functional programming is not new. If it's going to be mainsteam, it would
: have been mainstream for a few decades by now.

d***q
发帖数: 1119
19

C#
projects,
different.
I prefer clojure. Scala is a c++ of jvm.

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: As I said, you can check Scala, it's way more functional and powerful than C#
: if you are talking about syntax. It's useful in certain aspects and projects,
: but it has no way to replace Java. And it's not better, it's just different.
: Functional programming is not new. If it's going to be mainsteam, it would
: have been mainstream for a few decades by now.

d***q
发帖数: 1119
20
企业应用中,java的地位好比c于os的地位。
不管它好不好,用的人多了,各种库也多,
要说不好,难道统统换了?不可能。
java & jvm不是一样东西。
Jvm是个好东西,java是不是好是另外一回事。

node

【在 z***e 的大作中提到】
: 你也太过拥护java了,不管第三方怎么怎么,从语言本身来说,C#就是比Java好用。楼
: 主那段话就是只针对language本身而已。另外就算java,我发现慢慢地很多功能也在被
: 很多其它的取代。以前说到backend似乎都要依赖java做点什么什么,现在python/node
: /memcached等语言和工具也取代了很多以前java在backend的工作。
:
: C#
: projects,
: different.

相关主题
Go什么时候可能支持Generic?C# vs java
每次转换数据,看到var就想杀人How to return an array in a C++ function?
写SPARK程序很痛苦啊问一个C++ template的问题
g*****g
发帖数: 34805
21
这不是袒护。Java的设计初衷就是一个简单纯粹的OO语言。以Java不能做
functional为理由来说明C#比Java好是可笑的。语言不是啥都能做才是好,
加入的feature太多,就不再简单。这就如C能做的C++都能做,C++号称是
可以OO的C,但如果你只是写过程式的程序,C++对比C复杂很多容易被滥用,
却没有明显的优势。这也是20多年了,C++仍然不如C流行的原因。
Java当然不是写什么都合适,比如前面说到的functional,有functional的
语言。比如写脚本,动态语言就更合适。
Java的优势就是语言简单,历史够长,JDK和第三方类库的丰富超过了任何一种
语言。积累了大量资深程序员,学校里输出的初级程序员更是源源不断。对所有
legacy的系统支持也很好,所以在企业应用里是难以被取代的,

node

【在 z***e 的大作中提到】
: 你也太过拥护java了,不管第三方怎么怎么,从语言本身来说,C#就是比Java好用。楼
: 主那段话就是只针对language本身而已。另外就算java,我发现慢慢地很多功能也在被
: 很多其它的取代。以前说到backend似乎都要依赖java做点什么什么,现在python/node
: /memcached等语言和工具也取代了很多以前java在backend的工作。
:
: C#
: projects,
: different.

c*****y
发帖数: 562
22
好虫作为资深Java开发者你还是太袒护Java了。
Java至少从5年前就落后于C#了。Generics到Java 5才有。现在Java还学着加上Closure
,不知道到Java 8能不能实现。
functional是可以滥用,但是合理的使用可以免掉boilerplate code,代码更简短更容
易维护。
原文只是说从语言角度Java落后了,这和Java在enterprise可不可以替代是两回事。C#
的先天不足是来自微软,有Mono也没用。大家还是认为是微软的平台。C#取代不了Java
并不意味着Java不能从C#上学些东西。
我也是Java开发者。C#除了在Silverlight for WP上学了点,还是个入门级。

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: 这不是袒护。Java的设计初衷就是一个简单纯粹的OO语言。以Java不能做
: functional为理由来说明C#比Java好是可笑的。语言不是啥都能做才是好,
: 加入的feature太多,就不再简单。这就如C能做的C++都能做,C++号称是
: 可以OO的C,但如果你只是写过程式的程序,C++对比C复杂很多容易被滥用,
: 却没有明显的优势。这也是20多年了,C++仍然不如C流行的原因。
: Java当然不是写什么都合适,比如前面说到的functional,有functional的
: 语言。比如写脚本,动态语言就更合适。
: Java的优势就是语言简单,历史够长,JDK和第三方类库的丰富超过了任何一种
: 语言。积累了大量资深程序员,学校里输出的初级程序员更是源源不断。对所有
: legacy的系统支持也很好,所以在企业应用里是难以被取代的,

T*******i
发帖数: 4992
23
NIO跟async有啥关系?
Netty没有async file io,mina有个,只支持linux

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: 像这么简单的活,Java NIO足够了。嫌NIO不够强大,Netty,Mina都可以。
: 都很轻量级。

g*****g
发帖数: 34805
24
我无语了,Java 5是04年出来的,C#的generics是.Net 2.0才有的,.Net 2.0是06年
出来的。什么叫做到Java 5才有呀,到底是谁抄谁呀?至于closure,anonymous inner
class可以实现大部分的需要。不够简洁不错,但是这么多年也没见谁因为没有
closure而不能实现某种功能。
事实上functional的滥用是难以避免的。C++语法中的很多问题,都是因为为了跟
C兼容引起的。functional自由度更大,更容易滥用。当语言中允许不同风格
的写法的时候,就很难一致。理想是美好的,现实是程序员烂的比不烂的多。
从实用的角度,一个java烂程序员写的代码,还可以维护。而一个functional的,
可能只能重写。有现代IDE的存在,boiler plate代码是被overrated的。比如一个Java
bean很繁琐,但事实上在IDE里需要写的,就是声明的那几行,其他getter setter,
equals, hashcode,包括import,都是直接点几下就生成了。

Closure
C#
Java

【在 c*****y 的大作中提到】
: 好虫作为资深Java开发者你还是太袒护Java了。
: Java至少从5年前就落后于C#了。Generics到Java 5才有。现在Java还学着加上Closure
: ,不知道到Java 8能不能实现。
: functional是可以滥用,但是合理的使用可以免掉boilerplate code,代码更简短更容
: 易维护。
: 原文只是说从语言角度Java落后了,这和Java在enterprise可不可以替代是两回事。C#
: 的先天不足是来自微软,有Mono也没用。大家还是认为是微软的平台。C#取代不了Java
: 并不意味着Java不能从C#上学些东西。
: 我也是Java开发者。C#除了在Silverlight for WP上学了点,还是个入门级。

x****u
发帖数: 44466
25
微软在VS11里面对FP,并行的滥用是令人发指的。基本上一个小错误或者小异常就可以
跑飞整个程序。
不过反过来说,这东西合理运用可以写出极为优美的代码。

inner
Java

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: 我无语了,Java 5是04年出来的,C#的generics是.Net 2.0才有的,.Net 2.0是06年
: 出来的。什么叫做到Java 5才有呀,到底是谁抄谁呀?至于closure,anonymous inner
: class可以实现大部分的需要。不够简洁不错,但是这么多年也没见谁因为没有
: closure而不能实现某种功能。
: 事实上functional的滥用是难以避免的。C++语法中的很多问题,都是因为为了跟
: C兼容引起的。functional自由度更大,更容易滥用。当语言中允许不同风格
: 的写法的时候,就很难一致。理想是美好的,现实是程序员烂的比不烂的多。
: 从实用的角度,一个java烂程序员写的代码,还可以维护。而一个functional的,
: 可能只能重写。有现代IDE的存在,boiler plate代码是被overrated的。比如一个Java
: bean很繁琐,但事实上在IDE里需要写的,就是声明的那几行,其他getter setter,

g*****g
发帖数: 34805
26
NIO当然是async的。说到File IO,async File IO对大部分系统没啥用。
Async IO主要是为了对外高并发,因为可以支持的线程数目有限。

【在 T*******i 的大作中提到】
: NIO跟async有啥关系?
: Netty没有async file io,mina有个,只支持linux

g*****g
发帖数: 34805
27
我老一直认为,functional语言可以写出简洁优美的代码,但门槛
就比较高。而一个团队,水平都很高,不是不存在,但绝对不普遍。
关于这点可以看看这篇对Scala复杂性的评估。
http://blog.goodstuff.im/yes-virginia-scala-is-hard/

【在 x****u 的大作中提到】
: 微软在VS11里面对FP,并行的滥用是令人发指的。基本上一个小错误或者小异常就可以
: 跑飞整个程序。
: 不过反过来说,这东西合理运用可以写出极为优美的代码。
:
: inner
: Java

r******n
发帖数: 4522
28
我也觉得C#是被Windows给拖累了, 这才是最大的问题. 当然要是微软弄得C#跟Java似
的啥上面都能跑那也就跟当初Sun一样离死不远了.
a***n
发帖数: 538
29
scala还不错啊。不过.net运行速度好像是比java快一点。
z***e
发帖数: 5393
30
语言最开始都是以简单为目的,之后随着各种需求,尤其是为了跟上新的语言的步调,
再简单的也会变复杂。
就现在来说,光看程序的话,我觉得C#比Java更清晰简洁,比如setter/getter就比
java简洁吧(当然你也可以说这是sugar syntax,根本不需要,但是对用过的就会觉得
C#这方面要简洁些),这就好像也有很多人觉得C才是最简单易懂的没有其他花哨的东西
一样,一个道理。

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: 这不是袒护。Java的设计初衷就是一个简单纯粹的OO语言。以Java不能做
: functional为理由来说明C#比Java好是可笑的。语言不是啥都能做才是好,
: 加入的feature太多,就不再简单。这就如C能做的C++都能做,C++号称是
: 可以OO的C,但如果你只是写过程式的程序,C++对比C复杂很多容易被滥用,
: 却没有明显的优势。这也是20多年了,C++仍然不如C流行的原因。
: Java当然不是写什么都合适,比如前面说到的functional,有functional的
: 语言。比如写脚本,动态语言就更合适。
: Java的优势就是语言简单,历史够长,JDK和第三方类库的丰富超过了任何一种
: 语言。积累了大量资深程序员,学校里输出的初级程序员更是源源不断。对所有
: legacy的系统支持也很好,所以在企业应用里是难以被取代的,

相关主题
How does template work in C++Java 8 闪亮发布了
一个C的void指针的问题其实微软是个做语言的公司
《C# 5.0 核心技术》第5版[PDF]JAVA generic programming 是怎么实现的?
g*****g
发帖数: 34805
31
啥东西都有个度,加点syntax sugar跟加入functional是两码事。
每种语言的设计思想不同,愿意加feature只是一种选择,以此来说
哪个更好根本就是口味问题。
以我老多年混迹各种小公司,干过无数擦屁股的事情。我老更喜欢
简单的语言罢了,被滥用的程度有限,就还可以fix。

【在 z***e 的大作中提到】
: 语言最开始都是以简单为目的,之后随着各种需求,尤其是为了跟上新的语言的步调,
: 再简单的也会变复杂。
: 就现在来说,光看程序的话,我觉得C#比Java更清晰简洁,比如setter/getter就比
: java简洁吧(当然你也可以说这是sugar syntax,根本不需要,但是对用过的就会觉得
: C#这方面要简洁些),这就好像也有很多人觉得C才是最简单易懂的没有其他花哨的东西
: 一样,一个道理。

d***q
发帖数: 1119
32
C是简单易懂,但是能用pure c开发大型系统是极具挑战性的事情之一。

【在 z***e 的大作中提到】
: 语言最开始都是以简单为目的,之后随着各种需求,尤其是为了跟上新的语言的步调,
: 再简单的也会变复杂。
: 就现在来说,光看程序的话,我觉得C#比Java更清晰简洁,比如setter/getter就比
: java简洁吧(当然你也可以说这是sugar syntax,根本不需要,但是对用过的就会觉得
: C#这方面要简洁些),这就好像也有很多人觉得C才是最简单易懂的没有其他花哨的东西
: 一样,一个道理。

d**********x
发帖数: 4083
33
其实java和c#已经够干净了。

调,
觉得
东西

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: 啥东西都有个度,加点syntax sugar跟加入functional是两码事。
: 每种语言的设计思想不同,愿意加feature只是一种选择,以此来说
: 哪个更好根本就是口味问题。
: 以我老多年混迹各种小公司,干过无数擦屁股的事情。我老更喜欢
: 简单的语言罢了,被滥用的程度有限,就还可以fix。

d**********x
发帖数: 4083
34
一旦用来开发大型系统,就不是那么简单易懂了

【在 d***q 的大作中提到】
: C是简单易懂,但是能用pure c开发大型系统是极具挑战性的事情之一。
G***l
发帖数: 355
35
Java和C#的设计思想是很类似,做的也是类似的事情。可以说C#是微软版的Java。这两
个语言也别谈谁抄袭谁,互相抄。比方说enum就是C#先有然后Java后来才有的。但是
Java的enum比C#好用。其实都是抄的前人的。但现在而言C#就是比Java更好的语言。别
说这些就是语法糖什么的,多了少了无所谓,就是这些决定了一个语言的易用性。
我以前是写Java的,这两年用C#,真的比Java顺手很多。像C#的delegate的设计真的非
常好。那些functional的东西也非常好用,大大简化代码,不止是行数变少,而且真的
可维护性好了很多。以前好几行,要写什么循环判断啊之类的一行就搞定,而且意思很
明确,看别人的代码容易了很多。linq也非常好,虽然没有这些可以写出一样功能的代
码,但就是不一样。
也别担心人滥用。C#毕竟还是个OO概念为主的静态语言,比Java还OO。int什么的也是
对象,分valuetype跟reference type而已,跟函数式也结合的很好,function也都是
对象。我们这儿我没见过有人写C#滥用那些的。这跟C++不同,那么多乱七八糟的东西
还都得用着。
我最近因为项目需要又写几年没碰C++,看/写C++那些玩意可把我恶心坏了。什么头文
件,forward declaration, compile unit,copy constructor,各种operator
overloading,各种template相关。。。
std::vector::const_iterator it = myVector.begin(),然后再去写for
loop。类似这种code看着不蛋疼么。您别说,组里那些一直写C++的哥们还都挺enjoy,
觉得c++那些玩意挺好。我不说什么,人家在自己的world里确实很好。但是C++也在思变啊,
C++11加了不少实用东西。虽然我个人觉得有点积重难返,跑题了呵呵。
做软件这行,随时保持知识refresh是有好处的。我每年都会学点新的东西,可大可小
,但是每年回望去年的自己,都觉得自己那时候挺搓,这就差不多了。

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: 啥东西都有个度,加点syntax sugar跟加入functional是两码事。
: 每种语言的设计思想不同,愿意加feature只是一种选择,以此来说
: 哪个更好根本就是口味问题。
: 以我老多年混迹各种小公司,干过无数擦屁股的事情。我老更喜欢
: 简单的语言罢了,被滥用的程度有限,就还可以fix。

d***q
发帖数: 1119
36

所以说这是很有挑战性的工作。c缺乏一些大型开发必要的支持,那么对人的要求就比
较高,
不是简单培训几天,写几个Hello world 搞懂Pointer就行了.

【在 d**********x 的大作中提到】
: 一旦用来开发大型系统,就不是那么简单易懂了
N********n
发帖数: 8363
37

THAT C# GRAPE IS SOUR!!! Right.... What else would you say anyway?
C# has functional language features but offers it as a plus to help
operate on data lists where OO language is traditionally weak. You
don't have to use it but it's nice to have.
it's designed elegantly that the only way one could abuse it is that
he or she intentionally wants to write bad code. If you think that's
滥用 then each of your Java 3rd party support could be 滥用 as well.
C++ OTOH makes bad design an integral part of itself: if you don't
define a copy constructor and assignment operator private you could
burn yourself, and that's bad.
You are just spinning here, like always.

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: 啥东西都有个度,加点syntax sugar跟加入functional是两码事。
: 每种语言的设计思想不同,愿意加feature只是一种选择,以此来说
: 哪个更好根本就是口味问题。
: 以我老多年混迹各种小公司,干过无数擦屁股的事情。我老更喜欢
: 简单的语言罢了,被滥用的程度有限,就还可以fix。

L***n
发帖数: 6727
38
C++的value不一样,C++/C程序如果需要在elegance和speed之间选择的话,还是优先
考虑speed,所以大家各自enjoy的东西不一样

【在 G***l 的大作中提到】
: Java和C#的设计思想是很类似,做的也是类似的事情。可以说C#是微软版的Java。这两
: 个语言也别谈谁抄袭谁,互相抄。比方说enum就是C#先有然后Java后来才有的。但是
: Java的enum比C#好用。其实都是抄的前人的。但现在而言C#就是比Java更好的语言。别
: 说这些就是语法糖什么的,多了少了无所谓,就是这些决定了一个语言的易用性。
: 我以前是写Java的,这两年用C#,真的比Java顺手很多。像C#的delegate的设计真的非
: 常好。那些functional的东西也非常好用,大大简化代码,不止是行数变少,而且真的
: 可维护性好了很多。以前好几行,要写什么循环判断啊之类的一行就搞定,而且意思很
: 明确,看别人的代码容易了很多。linq也非常好,虽然没有这些可以写出一样功能的代
: 码,但就是不一样。
: 也别担心人滥用。C#毕竟还是个OO概念为主的静态语言,比Java还OO。int什么的也是

y****u
发帖数: 222
39
很同意观点。

【在 G***l 的大作中提到】
: Java和C#的设计思想是很类似,做的也是类似的事情。可以说C#是微软版的Java。这两
: 个语言也别谈谁抄袭谁,互相抄。比方说enum就是C#先有然后Java后来才有的。但是
: Java的enum比C#好用。其实都是抄的前人的。但现在而言C#就是比Java更好的语言。别
: 说这些就是语法糖什么的,多了少了无所谓,就是这些决定了一个语言的易用性。
: 我以前是写Java的,这两年用C#,真的比Java顺手很多。像C#的delegate的设计真的非
: 常好。那些functional的东西也非常好用,大大简化代码,不止是行数变少,而且真的
: 可维护性好了很多。以前好几行,要写什么循环判断啊之类的一行就搞定,而且意思很
: 明确,看别人的代码容易了很多。linq也非常好,虽然没有这些可以写出一样功能的代
: 码,但就是不一样。
: 也别担心人滥用。C#毕竟还是个OO概念为主的静态语言,比Java还OO。int什么的也是

r*****l
发帖数: 2859
40
说Java不能只说语言。Java语言提供了一个易于通过OO扩展的环境。我更同意语言本身
的规范化和核心化,让更多的framework做扩展的工作。太复杂的东西是不好维护的。
如果语言本身是核心,那比较语言本身意义并不大。
对Java开发者来说,严谨的语言对IDE的实现是十分有利的。举例来说,我现在没有发
现一个完美的groovy IDE。一个原因就是groovy太dynamic。Syntax sugar到底是不是
只是sugar还不好说。

Closure
C#
Java

【在 c*****y 的大作中提到】
: 好虫作为资深Java开发者你还是太袒护Java了。
: Java至少从5年前就落后于C#了。Generics到Java 5才有。现在Java还学着加上Closure
: ,不知道到Java 8能不能实现。
: functional是可以滥用,但是合理的使用可以免掉boilerplate code,代码更简短更容
: 易维护。
: 原文只是说从语言角度Java落后了,这和Java在enterprise可不可以替代是两回事。C#
: 的先天不足是来自微软,有Mono也没用。大家还是认为是微软的平台。C#取代不了Java
: 并不意味着Java不能从C#上学些东西。
: 我也是Java开发者。C#除了在Silverlight for WP上学了点,还是个入门级。

相关主题
JAVA generic programming 是怎么实现的?[新手]一直都把C++当Java写,有啥严重不妥?
C到底能走多远。。。。。。C#说实际上更多是java拷贝C#概念。
这个C#是为了啥?其实吧,C#是最好的语言。。。
n*w
发帖数: 3393
41
Generics is pioneered by ada in 1983.
The implementation of generics in Java is slow and disappoint.

inner
Java

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: 我无语了,Java 5是04年出来的,C#的generics是.Net 2.0才有的,.Net 2.0是06年
: 出来的。什么叫做到Java 5才有呀,到底是谁抄谁呀?至于closure,anonymous inner
: class可以实现大部分的需要。不够简洁不错,但是这么多年也没见谁因为没有
: closure而不能实现某种功能。
: 事实上functional的滥用是难以避免的。C++语法中的很多问题,都是因为为了跟
: C兼容引起的。functional自由度更大,更容易滥用。当语言中允许不同风格
: 的写法的时候,就很难一致。理想是美好的,现实是程序员烂的比不烂的多。
: 从实用的角度,一个java烂程序员写的代码,还可以维护。而一个functional的,
: 可能只能重写。有现代IDE的存在,boiler plate代码是被overrated的。比如一个Java
: bean很繁琐,但事实上在IDE里需要写的,就是声明的那几行,其他getter setter,

g*****g
发帖数: 34805
42
What grape is sour? Java remains the king of enterprise programming.
Job wise, the gap is not narrowed.
http://www.indeed.com/jobanalytics/jobtrends?q=java%2C+C%23&l=
In reality, it's hard to switch between OO and functional for
average programmers. Some functional features doesn't make
it better. If it's indeed a feature comparison, you should compare
C# and Scala and C# is very lacking in the offering. The simplicity
of Java has been embraced by open source community and that's
what makes Java better than C# as an ecosystem.

【在 N********n 的大作中提到】
:
: THAT C# GRAPE IS SOUR!!! Right.... What else would you say anyway?
: C# has functional language features but offers it as a plus to help
: operate on data lists where OO language is traditionally weak. You
: don't have to use it but it's nice to have.
: it's designed elegantly that the only way one could abuse it is that
: he or she intentionally wants to write bad code. If you think that's
: 滥用 then each of your Java 3rd party support could be 滥用 as well.
: C++ OTOH makes bad design an integral part of itself: if you don't
: define a copy constructor and assignment operator private you could

g*****g
发帖数: 34805
43
That still doesn't make C# any better than Java in this perspective.
Actually how many of you were Java programmers before 2004 to make
this statement?

【在 n*w 的大作中提到】
: Generics is pioneered by ada in 1983.
: The implementation of generics in Java is slow and disappoint.
:
: inner
: Java

n*w
发帖数: 3393
44
Java didn't have generics before 2004.
People expressed their disappointment before the generics became official
and tried to influence the creator. However, it was still implemented that
way because of the limitation of jvm.

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: That still doesn't make C# any better than Java in this perspective.
: Actually how many of you were Java programmers before 2004 to make
: this statement?

c****e
发帖数: 1453
45
You are arguing different subjects here. People are talking about the
language rather than its market share. C# gradullay integrated many features
, some are borrowed from funtional lauguage, in a nice way such as
everything is well laied out. I wouldn't just call them "syntax suger".
Otherwise, you can name anything beyond loop/variable/branch syntax suger.
I understand people get their stands based on their own experience. But I
feel you just blindly redirect anything regarding Java to the number of
positions posted. I understand the logic "market share means everything".
But it means very little to a healthy technical discussion. Plus it's less
valuable compared with testimonial from people working with both languages.
BTW, if you put Scala into the chart, C# also gets F#. They are not strictly
comprarable though.

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: What grape is sour? Java remains the king of enterprise programming.
: Job wise, the gap is not narrowed.
: http://www.indeed.com/jobanalytics/jobtrends?q=java%2C+C%23&l=
: In reality, it's hard to switch between OO and functional for
: average programmers. Some functional features doesn't make
: it better. If it's indeed a feature comparison, you should compare
: C# and Scala and C# is very lacking in the offering. The simplicity
: of Java has been embraced by open source community and that's
: what makes Java better than C# as an ecosystem.

g*****g
发帖数: 34805
46
Type erasure doesn't make my job more difficult in real life.
It wasn't like Java community are crying loud for current
implementation.

【在 n*w 的大作中提到】
: Java didn't have generics before 2004.
: People expressed their disappointment before the generics became official
: and tried to influence the creator. However, it was still implemented that
: way because of the limitation of jvm.

N*****m
发帖数: 42603
47
Kobe和Java,这两件事不能跟好虫argue.....
lol

features

【在 c****e 的大作中提到】
: You are arguing different subjects here. People are talking about the
: language rather than its market share. C# gradullay integrated many features
: , some are borrowed from funtional lauguage, in a nice way such as
: everything is well laied out. I wouldn't just call them "syntax suger".
: Otherwise, you can name anything beyond loop/variable/branch syntax suger.
: I understand people get their stands based on their own experience. But I
: feel you just blindly redirect anything regarding Java to the number of
: positions posted. I understand the logic "market share means everything".
: But it means very little to a healthy technical discussion. Plus it's less
: valuable compared with testimonial from people working with both languages.

g*****g
发帖数: 34805
48
Well, apparently some people are arguing C# is better than Java due to
functional features. But in reality, it's well know functional stle
doesn't blend with OO well for average team. And I show a reference
for a very good Java/Scala expert talking about that.
http://blog.goodstuff.im/yes-virginia-scala-is-hard/
Java 5 has been out for more than 7 years. Java 7 has been released.
And closure is still left behind, let alone other functional features.
JSR is a community voting process, unlike C#'s M$ monopoly. Lamda
support has been proposed and prototyped for years.
So it wasn't like the Java community is crying out loud for such features.
And it wasn't like the comminity is held back by the lack of such
features. And as a senior developer who maintains Java and scala code
in daily base, it wasn't like I know nothing about functional coding.
With all due respect to whoever that knows C# and Java well, I value
the opinion of the java community more.
I am all about practical. I believe simplicity overweights features
in the long run. Features can always be built by 3rd party, and picked
up by whoever needs. It's very different when it's part of language.
We can agree to disagree here. But if you want a referee, there's
nothing better than the market.

features

【在 c****e 的大作中提到】
: You are arguing different subjects here. People are talking about the
: language rather than its market share. C# gradullay integrated many features
: , some are borrowed from funtional lauguage, in a nice way such as
: everything is well laied out. I wouldn't just call them "syntax suger".
: Otherwise, you can name anything beyond loop/variable/branch syntax suger.
: I understand people get their stands based on their own experience. But I
: feel you just blindly redirect anything regarding Java to the number of
: positions posted. I understand the logic "market share means everything".
: But it means very little to a healthy technical discussion. Plus it's less
: valuable compared with testimonial from people working with both languages.

n*w
发帖数: 3393
49
The original article lists a few other items too. Not only functional
programming, which is very good to be added to c#.

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: Well, apparently some people are arguing C# is better than Java due to
: functional features. But in reality, it's well know functional stle
: doesn't blend with OO well for average team. And I show a reference
: for a very good Java/Scala expert talking about that.
: http://blog.goodstuff.im/yes-virginia-scala-is-hard/
: Java 5 has been out for more than 7 years. Java 7 has been released.
: And closure is still left behind, let alone other functional features.
: JSR is a community voting process, unlike C#'s M$ monopoly. Lamda
: support has been proposed and prototyped for years.
: So it wasn't like the Java community is crying out loud for such features.

g*****g
发帖数: 34805
50
Barring functional, there's dynamic programming, asynchronicity,
parrllelism, generics I assume?
You can ask neverlearn about dynamic programming. I've talked about
asynchronicity. And I still think parrellelism should be takend care
by the compiler/VM. If that answers your question.
For generics, Java values back-compatiblity and it has to be done
by type erasure. Is it ideal? No, but enterprise developers hate
more the idea of throwing previous version under the bus approach
of .Net. It's still part of our job to maintain legacy system.

【在 n*w 的大作中提到】
: The original article lists a few other items too. Not only functional
: programming, which is very good to be added to c#.

相关主题
看魏老师和好虫论战,总结一句话每次转换数据,看到var就想杀人
NASDAQ match engine is written in Java写SPARK程序很痛苦啊
Go什么时候可能支持Generic?C# vs java
k*****a
发帖数: 1463
51
I think punch card, aka direct bits, wins the language race as it is still
100% market share. Moreover, these other languages can not do anything other
than translate into this.
Maybe that explains Java vs. C#'s market share?

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: Well, apparently some people are arguing C# is better than Java due to
: functional features. But in reality, it's well know functional stle
: doesn't blend with OO well for average team. And I show a reference
: for a very good Java/Scala expert talking about that.
: http://blog.goodstuff.im/yes-virginia-scala-is-hard/
: Java 5 has been out for more than 7 years. Java 7 has been released.
: And closure is still left behind, let alone other functional features.
: JSR is a community voting process, unlike C#'s M$ monopoly. Lamda
: support has been proposed and prototyped for years.
: So it wasn't like the Java community is crying out loud for such features.

k*****a
发帖数: 1463
52
Another thing.... large market share does not mean more $$$, I would rather
work in a niche market for bigger money.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
According to analysts (Evans Data Corp.) the number of Java developers will
outnumber the number of C++ developers by the end of next year. This makes
it sound as if Java programmers would have greater opportunity in the future
(assuming the supply is a function of demand).
An interesting thing I read a couple of months ago, however, said that C++
would still be highly-paid, highly-sought-after skill for at least the next
5 years. C++ developers are the only ones who can maintain C++ programs --
much of the software that exists in most enterprise/corporate situations is
still C++. Given that C++ is a more difficult-to-learn and robust to work
with language than Java, C++ developers -- good, experienced, senior-level,
anyway -- are expected to be worth a great deal more than equitable Java
developers.
What does this mean in a nutshell? Java may get you your foot in the door,
but C++ will likely get you your own door (think corner office with a window
).
g*****g
发帖数: 34805
53
And I present you the salary comparison.
http://www.indeed.com/salary?q1=C%2B%2B&l1=&q2=java&l2=&q3=C%23
I wouldn't call it a Java victory. But it should be convincing
the salary is comparable. Now there are way more Java jobs, from normal
distribution perspective, if you are really really good, the outliner
is going to be more outliner in comparison. If you are going to lead
a bigger group, with a bigger project, chance is you'll get paid better,
it's not exactly rocket science.
http://cboard.cprogramming.com/brief-history-cprogramming-com/6
BTW, using a 2001 quote talking about next 5 years is a complete
failure. You could do better than that.

rather
will
future
next
is

【在 k*****a 的大作中提到】
: Another thing.... large market share does not mean more $$$, I would rather
: work in a niche market for bigger money.
: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
: According to analysts (Evans Data Corp.) the number of Java developers will
: outnumber the number of C++ developers by the end of next year. This makes
: it sound as if Java programmers would have greater opportunity in the future
: (assuming the supply is a function of demand).
: An interesting thing I read a couple of months ago, however, said that C++
: would still be highly-paid, highly-sought-after skill for at least the next
: 5 years. C++ developers are the only ones who can maintain C++ programs --

g*****g
发帖数: 34805
54
One of my former colleagues, a Scala enthusiast, turned down
a Typesafe (the company backing Scala) offer and went for a
Netflix position. Exactly the reason I have to maintain Scala
code now. You choose to believe what you believe and I couldn't
care less.

other

【在 k*****a 的大作中提到】
: I think punch card, aka direct bits, wins the language race as it is still
: 100% market share. Moreover, these other languages can not do anything other
: than translate into this.
: Maybe that explains Java vs. C#'s market share?

G***l
发帖数: 355
55
But in reality, it's well know functional stle
doesn't blend with OO well for average team
我不敢苟同这句。C#的functional feature跟OO结合的很好。我不知道什么是average
team。我们这大多是cs本科或者master,3-5年经验,但不一定一直是C#,很多人曾经
是Java, c++等等,functional programming的经验很少。但没有人滥用那些。而用的
地方确实是提高了代码的可读性和维护性。那些functional的东西对传统OO是非常有益
的补充,不是多余的。
我想Java和C#两者都有大量实际项目经验的才能做出有意义的比较。goodbug用过多久C
#?你说Java是个好的语言,这没有人反对。包括我很多两者都有不少经验的人认为C#
更好而已。只是讨论语言本身,不包含marketshare之类的,那是另外的topic。我对语
言没有感情的偏好,这些年Java, C#, C++都写过不少。就我自己写程序的流畅程度和
维护别人的代码理解程序的难度而言,C#确实比Java好。

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: Well, apparently some people are arguing C# is better than Java due to
: functional features. But in reality, it's well know functional stle
: doesn't blend with OO well for average team. And I show a reference
: for a very good Java/Scala expert talking about that.
: http://blog.goodstuff.im/yes-virginia-scala-is-hard/
: Java 5 has been out for more than 7 years. Java 7 has been released.
: And closure is still left behind, let alone other functional features.
: JSR is a community voting process, unlike C#'s M$ monopoly. Lamda
: support has been proposed and prototyped for years.
: So it wasn't like the Java community is crying out loud for such features.

i*****o
发帖数: 1714
56
We all heard that netflix pays really good...

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: One of my former colleagues, a Scala enthusiast, turned down
: a Typesafe (the company backing Scala) offer and went for a
: Netflix position. Exactly the reason I have to maintain Scala
: code now. You choose to believe what you believe and I couldn't
: care less.
:
: other

n*w
发帖数: 3393
57
是的。我自己也是在c#中用functional style越来越多了。
不过java 8准备“抄”c#的Lambda syntax了。

average
久C

【在 G***l 的大作中提到】
: But in reality, it's well know functional stle
: doesn't blend with OO well for average team
: 我不敢苟同这句。C#的functional feature跟OO结合的很好。我不知道什么是average
: team。我们这大多是cs本科或者master,3-5年经验,但不一定一直是C#,很多人曾经
: 是Java, c++等等,functional programming的经验很少。但没有人滥用那些。而用的
: 地方确实是提高了代码的可读性和维护性。那些functional的东西对传统OO是非常有益
: 的补充,不是多余的。
: 我想Java和C#两者都有大量实际项目经验的才能做出有意义的比较。goodbug用过多久C
: #?你说Java是个好的语言,这没有人反对。包括我很多两者都有不少经验的人认为C#
: 更好而已。只是讨论语言本身,不包含marketshare之类的,那是另外的topic。我对语

c**d
发帖数: 579
58
自从sun被收购,越来越多企业转投.net了。
g*****g
发帖数: 34805
59
我老用了一年多的Scala,Scala可比C# functional多了。Scala比Java,C#,
Feature都多多了,你要是Scala写得好,代码也比C#短多了。是不是Scala
就比C# light year ahead?
所以我一直说,加点functional feature可以,个人喜好不同我也不强求,非
说light year ahead纯胡扯。你要说C#是西施,functional加的多一分嫌多,
少一分太少,那就是宗教了。

average
久C

【在 G***l 的大作中提到】
: But in reality, it's well know functional stle
: doesn't blend with OO well for average team
: 我不敢苟同这句。C#的functional feature跟OO结合的很好。我不知道什么是average
: team。我们这大多是cs本科或者master,3-5年经验,但不一定一直是C#,很多人曾经
: 是Java, c++等等,functional programming的经验很少。但没有人滥用那些。而用的
: 地方确实是提高了代码的可读性和维护性。那些functional的东西对传统OO是非常有益
: 的补充,不是多余的。
: 我想Java和C#两者都有大量实际项目经验的才能做出有意义的比较。goodbug用过多久C
: #?你说Java是个好的语言,这没有人反对。包括我很多两者都有不少经验的人认为C#
: 更好而已。只是讨论语言本身,不包含marketshare之类的,那是另外的topic。我对语

G***l
发帖数: 355
60
我们在说C#,不是在说functional programming。C#好是在类似Java的基础上多了很多
简洁高效的东西,functional只是其中之一。你有很多Java和Scala的经验,但是我觉
得你的技术背景真的不适合讨论涉及到C#细节的话题,因为你没有这真正用过C#。
Scala跟C#完全没有可比性,C#也不是Java+Scala。就像一个人Python, Ruby什么的再
熟,也讨论不了C#的问题。类比下,我们大家看球说马拉多纳牛逼,技术超牛,还能单
骑闯关,比普拉蒂尼牛逼。一个人看过很多普拉蒂尼,但没看过马拉多纳踢球,他说我
还看过苏格拉底和巴乔,前者是中场大师,技术超强,后者上演若干单骑救主。我觉得马拉多纳能做到
这些也不代表他比普拉蒂尼强。可能普拉蒂尼真的比马拉多纳强,但是这个球迷是无法给出令人信服的
见解的,因为他说到底没看过马拉多纳踢球。

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: 我老用了一年多的Scala,Scala可比C# functional多了。Scala比Java,C#,
: Feature都多多了,你要是Scala写得好,代码也比C#短多了。是不是Scala
: 就比C# light year ahead?
: 所以我一直说,加点functional feature可以,个人喜好不同我也不强求,非
: 说light year ahead纯胡扯。你要说C#是西施,functional加的多一分嫌多,
: 少一分太少,那就是宗教了。
:
: average
: 久C

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How to return an array in a C++ function?一个C的void指针的问题
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How does template work in C++Java 8 闪亮发布了
g*****g
发帖数: 34805
61
你可以说我没资格评论C#,但说C# light year ahead of Java又有啥证据?
说到头就是多了一些feature。我也可以证明Scala比C#多了很多很多feature,
从代码的角度也可以更简洁高效。这并不需要对C#有多深理解,看看feature
set就知道了。

得马拉多纳能做到
法给出令人信服的

【在 G***l 的大作中提到】
: 我们在说C#,不是在说functional programming。C#好是在类似Java的基础上多了很多
: 简洁高效的东西,functional只是其中之一。你有很多Java和Scala的经验,但是我觉
: 得你的技术背景真的不适合讨论涉及到C#细节的话题,因为你没有这真正用过C#。
: Scala跟C#完全没有可比性,C#也不是Java+Scala。就像一个人Python, Ruby什么的再
: 熟,也讨论不了C#的问题。类比下,我们大家看球说马拉多纳牛逼,技术超牛,还能单
: 骑闯关,比普拉蒂尼牛逼。一个人看过很多普拉蒂尼,但没看过马拉多纳踢球,他说我
: 还看过苏格拉底和巴乔,前者是中场大师,技术超强,后者上演若干单骑救主。我觉得马拉多纳能做到
: 这些也不代表他比普拉蒂尼强。可能普拉蒂尼真的比马拉多纳强,但是这个球迷是无法给出令人信服的
: 见解的,因为他说到底没看过马拉多纳踢球。

n*w
发帖数: 3393
62
Scala should compare with f# then.

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: 你可以说我没资格评论C#,但说C# light year ahead of Java又有啥证据?
: 说到头就是多了一些feature。我也可以证明Scala比C#多了很多很多feature,
: 从代码的角度也可以更简洁高效。这并不需要对C#有多深理解,看看feature
: set就知道了。
:
: 得马拉多纳能做到
: 法给出令人信服的

g*****g
发帖数: 34805
63
No, Scala has much better OO support than F#.

【在 n*w 的大作中提到】
: Scala should compare with f# then.
n*w
发帖数: 3393
64
Yes, it's also a mixed paradigm with stronger oop comparing with F#. but it
doesn't replace Java (programming language) yet.
Let's focus on Java and C# here.

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: No, Scala has much better OO support than F#.
g*****g
发帖数: 34805
65
As I said, a few trivial features do not make a language better,
let alone light year ahead.
What made Java replacing C++ in many domains in last 15 years?
GC, portablity and the huge bulit-in library. Those are killer
features. In comparison, a few syntax sugar and functional construct
are trivial. If those make you feel better, I am totally fine with that.
But light year ahead, what a joke.

it

【在 n*w 的大作中提到】
: Yes, it's also a mixed paradigm with stronger oop comparing with F#. but it
: doesn't replace Java (programming language) yet.
: Let's focus on Java and C# here.

n*w
发帖数: 3393
66
"light years" are the words of the creator (?) Of mono. I will just say a
few streets ahead.

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: As I said, a few trivial features do not make a language better,
: let alone light year ahead.
: What made Java replacing C++ in many domains in last 15 years?
: GC, portablity and the huge bulit-in library. Those are killer
: features. In comparison, a few syntax sugar and functional construct
: are trivial. If those make you feel better, I am totally fine with that.
: But light year ahead, what a joke.
:
: it

g*****g
发帖数: 34805
67
Mono, LOL. Mono is a joke. There isn't even an app that's noteworthy.
For a few streets ahead part, as I said, you choose to believe what
you want to believe, and we can agree to disagree here.

【在 n*w 的大作中提到】
: "light years" are the words of the creator (?) Of mono. I will just say a
: few streets ahead.

n*w
发帖数: 3393
68
Let's focus on the technical aspects of the two languages here.

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: Mono, LOL. Mono is a joke. There isn't even an app that's noteworthy.
: For a few streets ahead part, as I said, you choose to believe what
: you want to believe, and we can agree to disagree here.

G***l
发帖数: 355
69

你太defensive了。说light year只是抓眼球的词。再粉c#的人也不会真觉得差距有这
么大,只是夸张的说法罢了。事实是c#这几天年一直保持不错的进步,而java动作比较
慢。以前人们一直觉得两者差不多得,现在一用发现c#那些feature非常好用而java没
有,于是发出了这样的感叹。就是这样。

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: Mono, LOL. Mono is a joke. There isn't even an app that's noteworthy.
: For a few streets ahead part, as I said, you choose to believe what
: you want to believe, and we can agree to disagree here.

n*w
发帖数: 3393
70
Exactly

【在 G***l 的大作中提到】
:
: 你太defensive了。说light year只是抓眼球的词。再粉c#的人也不会真觉得差距有这
: 么大,只是夸张的说法罢了。事实是c#这几天年一直保持不错的进步,而java动作比较
: 慢。以前人们一直觉得两者差不多得,现在一用发现c#那些feature非常好用而java没
: 有,于是发出了这样的感叹。就是这样。

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x**n
发帖数: 461
71
C# is definitely much better than Java, for a JUNIOR engineer only.
I have been developing enterprise application with C# during the last 8
years. The ORM tools that are available in Java for many years almost does
not exist until recently, and still luck of some important feature, e.g.
second level cache.
Of course, it is more convenient to write C#. But enterprise application
development is so different from RAD that this convenience doesn't make a
big deal.
s***o
发帖数: 2191
72
while I agree that .net world didn't pay enough attention to design patterns
and such until recently, nhibernate has been around for many years, and it
does provide 2nd level caching.

【在 x**n 的大作中提到】
: C# is definitely much better than Java, for a JUNIOR engineer only.
: I have been developing enterprise application with C# during the last 8
: years. The ORM tools that are available in Java for many years almost does
: not exist until recently, and still luck of some important feature, e.g.
: second level cache.
: Of course, it is more convenient to write C#. But enterprise application
: development is so different from RAD that this convenience doesn't make a
: big deal.

s***o
发帖数: 2191
73
你们这都转了好几个圈了,晕了。。。

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: Mono, LOL. Mono is a joke. There isn't even an app that's noteworthy.
: For a few streets ahead part, as I said, you choose to believe what
: you want to believe, and we can agree to disagree here.

x**n
发帖数: 461
74
Yes, NHibernate has that for long time, ported from Java. However, the EF,
microsoft's own .net solution, won't provide that until EF5.
And many of .net developers, including most on this board, have never really
spent any time on architecture pattern at all. What they claim is: Yeal, it
is great RAD, the best in the world.

patterns
it

【在 s***o 的大作中提到】
: while I agree that .net world didn't pay enough attention to design patterns
: and such until recently, nhibernate has been around for many years, and it
: does provide 2nd level caching.

n*w
发帖数: 3393
75
是的,Microsoft的ef早期版本是备受批评。
很多dot net的程序员是没有任何pattern的概念。不过也见过写长条的意大利粉的java
程序员。
在pattern方面dot net近些时候正在赶上超越。
要不现在开始从c#,java的语言开始讨论pattern?还是另开一贴?

really
it

【在 x**n 的大作中提到】
: Yes, NHibernate has that for long time, ported from Java. However, the EF,
: microsoft's own .net solution, won't provide that until EF5.
: And many of .net developers, including most on this board, have never really
: spent any time on architecture pattern at all. What they claim is: Yeal, it
: is great RAD, the best in the world.
:
: patterns
: it

y***y
发帖数: 224
76

顶这个~

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: As I said, a few trivial features do not make a language better,
: let alone light year ahead.
: What made Java replacing C++ in many domains in last 15 years?
: GC, portablity and the huge bulit-in library. Those are killer
: features. In comparison, a few syntax sugar and functional construct
: are trivial. If those make you feel better, I am totally fine with that.
: But light year ahead, what a joke.
:
: it

n*w
发帖数: 3393
77
我倒不认为这些features是 trivial的。
From embracing dynamic programming, bring asynchronicity into
the language, introduce iterators, functional programming constructs,
embrace parallelism and got a great implementation of generics.
觉得java拿了c++一大块的最重要原因(之一)是type safe。
下面这个别人总结的java和c#的不同点包括了一些trivial或不trivial的东西。
Generics are completely different between the two; Java generics are just
a compile-time "trick" (but a useful one at that). In C# and .NET
generics are maintained at execution time too, and work for value types
as well as reference types, keeping the appropriate efficiency (e.g. a
List as a byte[] backing it, rather than an array of boxed bytes.)
C# doesn't have checked exceptions
Java doesn't allow the creation of user-defined value types
Java doesn't have operator and conversion overloading
Java doesn't have iterator blocks for simple implemetation of iterators
Java doesn't have anything like LINQ
Partly due to not having delegates, Java doesn't have anything quite like
anonymous methods and lambda expressions. Anonymous inner classes usually
fill these roles, but clunkily.
Java doesn't have expression trees
C# doesn't have anonymous inner classes
C# doesn't have Java's inner classes at all, in fact - all nested classes
in C# are like Java's static nested classes
Java doesn't have static classes (which don't have any instance
constructors, and can't be used for variables, parameters etc)
Java doesn't have any equivalent to the C# 3.0 anonymous types
Java doesn't have implicitly typed local variables
Java doesn't have extension methods
Java doesn't have object and collection initializer expressions
The access modifiers are somewhat different - in Java there's (currently)
no direct equivalent of an assembly, so no idea of "internal" visibility;
in C# there's no equivalent to the "default" visibility in Java which
takes account of namespace (and inheritance)
The order of initialization in Java and C# is subtly different (C#
executes variable initializers before the chained call to the base type's
constructor)
Java doesn't have an equivalent of the using statement for simplified
try/finally handling of resources
Java doesn't have properties as part of the language; they're a
convention of get/set/is methods
Java doesn't have the equivalent of "unsafe" code
Interop is easier in C# (and .NET in general) than Java's JNI
Java and C# have somewhat different ideas of enums. Java's are much more
object-oriented.
Java has no preprocessor directives (#define, #if etc in C#).
Java has no equivalent of C#'s ref and out for passing parameters by
reference
Java has no equivalent of partial types
C# interfaces cannot declare fields
Java has no unsigned integer types
Java has no language support for a decimal type. (java.math.BigDecimal
provides something like System.Decimal - with differences - but there's
no language support)
Java has no equivalent of nullable value types
Boxing in Java uses predefined (but "normal") reference types with
particular operations on them. Boxing in C# and .NET is a more
transparent affair, with a reference type being created for boxing by the
CLR for any value type.

【在 y***y 的大作中提到】
:
: 顶这个~

x**n
发帖数: 461
78
这个呢,我倒是同意你的。C#在语言上已经超越了Java,而且这个gap正变得越来越大
。另一方面呢,Java在企业应用上尤其是Architecture Pattern上面领先.NET/C#一大
截,C#还有得赶得。虽然近两年Microsoft在这方面取得了巨大的成就,但说整体上领
先Java还真有点夜郎自大的味道。

【在 n*w 的大作中提到】
: 我倒不认为这些features是 trivial的。
: From embracing dynamic programming, bring asynchronicity into
: the language, introduce iterators, functional programming constructs,
: embrace parallelism and got a great implementation of generics.
: 觉得java拿了c++一大块的最重要原因(之一)是type safe。
: 下面这个别人总结的java和c#的不同点包括了一些trivial或不trivial的东西。
: Generics are completely different between the two; Java generics are just
: a compile-time "trick" (but a useful one at that). In C# and .NET
: generics are maintained at execution time too, and work for value types
: as well as reference types, keeping the appropriate efficiency (e.g. a

n*w
发帖数: 3393
79
.net在Architecture Pattern整体上目前肯定没有领先Java。可能部分领域做了些有特
色的东西。

【在 x**n 的大作中提到】
: 这个呢,我倒是同意你的。C#在语言上已经超越了Java,而且这个gap正变得越来越大
: 。另一方面呢,Java在企业应用上尤其是Architecture Pattern上面领先.NET/C#一大
: 截,C#还有得赶得。虽然近两年Microsoft在这方面取得了巨大的成就,但说整体上领
: 先Java还真有点夜郎自大的味道。

G***l
发帖数: 355
80
这个主要是平台和周边的问题。.NET主要就是微软的那套东西,好处是结合的比较好,
上手快。坏处也很明显,没别的选择。就比如网站,你用.NET的话就只能用Windows,
IIS。Java的话你Weblogic, JBoss, Tomcat, Linux,BSD,Windows等等你想用啥用
啥。

【在 x**n 的大作中提到】
: 这个呢,我倒是同意你的。C#在语言上已经超越了Java,而且这个gap正变得越来越大
: 。另一方面呢,Java在企业应用上尤其是Architecture Pattern上面领先.NET/C#一大
: 截,C#还有得赶得。虽然近两年Microsoft在这方面取得了巨大的成就,但说整体上领
: 先Java还真有点夜郎自大的味道。

相关主题
C#说实际上更多是java拷贝C#概念。NASDAQ match engine is written in Java
其实吧,C#是最好的语言。。。Go什么时候可能支持Generic?
看魏老师和好虫论战,总结一句话每次转换数据,看到var就想杀人
r****y
发帖数: 26819
81
当年.net就是这么跟java比的。java说一种语言通吃所有平台,.net说一个平台通吃所有
语言。现在其它语言都成了绿叶,这个比较也就落地了。

【在 G***l 的大作中提到】
: 这个主要是平台和周边的问题。.NET主要就是微软的那套东西,好处是结合的比较好,
: 上手快。坏处也很明显,没别的选择。就比如网站,你用.NET的话就只能用Windows,
: IIS。Java的话你Weblogic, JBoss, Tomcat, Linux,BSD,Windows等等你想用啥用
: 啥。

g*****g
发帖数: 34805
82
In practice, Java builds everything C# builds, and some.
That it runs on Linux is already a winning feature than all the
extra C# features combined. You don't have to believe it, but
C# isn't exactly a favorite language in high profile projects.
And I remember NeverLearn using LSE as a prime example a few
years back. LOL.
http://www.computerworlduk.com/news/open-source/3260727/london-
At 8am today, the exchange’s main venue went into live trading with the
Millennium IT matching engine, developed in C++ programming language and
running on SUSE Linux. Weekend work included setting live all gateways from
clients to its network and data centres.
The switchover is being closely watched as the new system will replace the
existing TradElect platform - written in C#, based around Microsoft .Net
architecture on Windows Server and SQL Server, and upgraded by Accenture in
2007 at a cost of £40 million. The decision to scrap TradElect was made in
2009, after several high profile outages and as rivals beat the LSE on
messaging latency.

【在 n*w 的大作中提到】
: 我倒不认为这些features是 trivial的。
: From embracing dynamic programming, bring asynchronicity into
: the language, introduce iterators, functional programming constructs,
: embrace parallelism and got a great implementation of generics.
: 觉得java拿了c++一大块的最重要原因(之一)是type safe。
: 下面这个别人总结的java和c#的不同点包括了一些trivial或不trivial的东西。
: Generics are completely different between the two; Java generics are just
: a compile-time "trick" (but a useful one at that). In C# and .NET
: generics are maintained at execution time too, and work for value types
: as well as reference types, keeping the appropriate efficiency (e.g. a

L***n
发帖数: 6727
83
jvm倒是有点通吃所有语言的意思,现在是个dynamic的语言就想往jvm上靠,连lisp都
湊热闹

所有

【在 r****y 的大作中提到】
: 当年.net就是这么跟java比的。java说一种语言通吃所有平台,.net说一个平台通吃所有
: 语言。现在其它语言都成了绿叶,这个比较也就落地了。

n*******e
发帖数: 62
84
其实单独争论语言好坏没有什么意义的。尤其这种运行在VM上的语言跟是如此. 本来我
也想引用一下london交易所的例子, 当年我很关注这件事的,因为从来没有真正的
mission critical的地方用过.NET。london交易所当年决定上了, 那微软可是高兴的找
不到北了啊, 到处大肆宣传. 不曾想, 上去了结果问题百出, 没多久,london交易所
就不得不下定决心换了. 大家都是做软件的, 也清楚要换这么大的一个系统意味着什么
! 如果现有的系统能维持, 能正常运行, 没有200%的理由, 恐怕谁也不会轻易去动它
的。 而且这样的系统, 有谁敢说, 微软没有派最好的工程师去帮助解决问题?! 结
论是什么,火星人也知道。
Java就语言本身来说, 的确没有C#提供的什么autobox, property, delegate 等等东西
, 但是这些东西也不是说真的有多重要, 对初学者来说,这些东西可能省了不少事, 但
是有多少系统是真正的由初学者architect的? 而且, Java本身现在已经不再仅仅是一
个语言了, 而是一个系统, 一个庞大的开发,应用,支持的社区,有着行业中最优秀的开
发人员参与. 有着无数成熟的语言库, 框架可供使用和选择, JVM本身经过这么多年的
发展,竞争,和融合,已经十分成熟,稳定了. 这些都是.NET所无法比的. 跨平台就更
不用说了。 如果你说.NET也跨平台, 那你说对了, 但是MONOO究竟怎么样? 碰巧在一
个跨平台standalone软件用了, crash是以小时计算的。简直就是个joke. 好在我们的
应用,不扯钱,也不是多关键,crash了重新起就事了。看见这两天有人在鼓吹,
Adroid移植到MONO上了,C#的福气啊。看有没有人敢用。

from

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: In practice, Java builds everything C# builds, and some.
: That it runs on Linux is already a winning feature than all the
: extra C# features combined. You don't have to believe it, but
: C# isn't exactly a favorite language in high profile projects.
: And I remember NeverLearn using LSE as a prime example a few
: years back. LOL.
: http://www.computerworlduk.com/news/open-source/3260727/london-
: At 8am today, the exchange’s main venue went into live trading with the
: Millennium IT matching engine, developed in C++ programming language and
: running on SUSE Linux. Weekend work included setting live all gateways from

i*****o
发帖数: 1714
85
我怎么觉得java的最大优势是有一大群像goodbug一样的坚定支持者。
反过来c#不仅没有支持者,却是有一大群Microsoft hater在快乐的抹黑。
哈哈,俺是局外人,但是有点同情弱者:)
N*****m
发帖数: 42603
86
像好虫这样坚定的,本站估计只有名媛了

【在 i*****o 的大作中提到】
: 我怎么觉得java的最大优势是有一大群像goodbug一样的坚定支持者。
: 反过来c#不仅没有支持者,却是有一大群Microsoft hater在快乐的抹黑。
: 哈哈,俺是局外人,但是有点同情弱者:)

c***r
发帖数: 4631
87
还有neverlearn

【在 N*****m 的大作中提到】
: 像好虫这样坚定的,本站估计只有名媛了
N*****m
发帖数: 42603
88
买买提三驾马车

【在 c***r 的大作中提到】
: 还有neverlearn
g*****g
发帖数: 34805
89
LOL, 我老10年前鼓吹Java的时候,你还不知道在哪呢。
再看看这10年的变化。我老又不是没干过C++,跳船
跳得早罢了。最近几年被鄙视的次数也少多了。

【在 N*****m 的大作中提到】
: 像好虫这样坚定的,本站估计只有名媛了
n*w
发帖数: 3393
90
Curiously, is any similar system built on Java?
I think it's a sad story of managed platform. I won't cheer if Java has the
similar story happened on Java (being replaced by a unmanaged platform).
Is the largest website built with .net Dell.com? What's the big site built
with Java?

【在 n*******e 的大作中提到】
: 其实单独争论语言好坏没有什么意义的。尤其这种运行在VM上的语言跟是如此. 本来我
: 也想引用一下london交易所的例子, 当年我很关注这件事的,因为从来没有真正的
: mission critical的地方用过.NET。london交易所当年决定上了, 那微软可是高兴的找
: 不到北了啊, 到处大肆宣传. 不曾想, 上去了结果问题百出, 没多久,london交易所
: 就不得不下定决心换了. 大家都是做软件的, 也清楚要换这么大的一个系统意味着什么
: ! 如果现有的系统能维持, 能正常运行, 没有200%的理由, 恐怕谁也不会轻易去动它
: 的。 而且这样的系统, 有谁敢说, 微软没有派最好的工程师去帮助解决问题?! 结
: 论是什么,火星人也知道。
: Java就语言本身来说, 的确没有C#提供的什么autobox, property, delegate 等等东西
: , 但是这些东西也不是说真的有多重要, 对初学者来说,这些东西可能省了不少事, 但

相关主题
写SPARK程序很痛苦啊问一个C++ template的问题
C# vs javaHow does template work in C++
How to return an array in a C++ function?一个C的void指针的问题
N*****m
发帖数: 42603
91
说明我说的没错啊,十年如一日的
估计也就名媛了,lol

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: LOL, 我老10年前鼓吹Java的时候,你还不知道在哪呢。
: 再看看这10年的变化。我老又不是没干过C++,跳船
: 跳得早罢了。最近几年被鄙视的次数也少多了。

g*****g
发帖数: 34805
92
这是因为JVM跨平台的缘故。

【在 L***n 的大作中提到】
: jvm倒是有点通吃所有语言的意思,现在是个dynamic的语言就想往jvm上靠,连lisp都
: 湊热闹
:
: 所有

n*w
发帖数: 3393
93
Clr also had ironpython, iron ruby, scalar, closure, .... Etc

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: 这是因为JVM跨平台的缘故。
s*******o
发帖数: 392
94
我喜欢c#,好用,上手快,适于快速解决问题。不是任何人都是上来就大企业,大中华
区应用的,呵呵,java还是看着简陋,不舒服。
g*****g
发帖数: 34805
95
NYSE, Nasdaq, almost all big financial system use some
mix of Java, C/C++.
http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/98376/IBM_Builds_Java_Sy
I don't know which site built on Java is biggest. But eBay/linkin are
in Java. Twitter is in some Java/Scala hybrid.

the

【在 n*w 的大作中提到】
: Curiously, is any similar system built on Java?
: I think it's a sad story of managed platform. I won't cheer if Java has the
: similar story happened on Java (being replaced by a unmanaged platform).
: Is the largest website built with .net Dell.com? What's the big site built
: with Java?

g*****g
发帖数: 34805
96
If you are a small language that needs a lot help from
open source community. JVM is always the first choice.
CLR will always be a we can do that too story.

【在 n*w 的大作中提到】
: Clr also had ironpython, iron ruby, scalar, closure, .... Etc
n*******e
发帖数: 62
97
听说过ebay.com吧?

the

【在 n*w 的大作中提到】
: Curiously, is any similar system built on Java?
: I think it's a sad story of managed platform. I won't cheer if Java has the
: similar story happened on Java (being replaced by a unmanaged platform).
: Is the largest website built with .net Dell.com? What's the big site built
: with Java?

s***o
发帖数: 2191
98
抹黑M$是本版的优良传统,不能丢啊。
C#比Java好用是毫无疑问的,但远达不到能引起质变的程度,就像Java对C++的颠覆那
样。而且系统做大点,肯定要牵扯到很多其他东西比如平台。那个LSE的例子,问题应
该主要是在Windows Server上。不过,如果我没记错,导致crash的直接原因并不是来
自windows 或.NET,而是Cisco做的一个东西。后来换到linux平台后,也是glitch不断
,而且也有过一次很厉害的crash。

【在 i*****o 的大作中提到】
: 我怎么觉得java的最大优势是有一大群像goodbug一样的坚定支持者。
: 反过来c#不仅没有支持者,却是有一大群Microsoft hater在快乐的抹黑。
: 哈哈,俺是局外人,但是有点同情弱者:)

n*******e
发帖数: 62
99
当年我还用PHP呢. 那才叫简单, 上手更快. 只是也就做一些一般的不关键的东西(初
yahoo外).

【在 s*******o 的大作中提到】
: 我喜欢c#,好用,上手快,适于快速解决问题。不是任何人都是上来就大企业,大中华
: 区应用的,呵呵,java还是看着简陋,不舒服。

g*****g
发帖数: 34805
100
LSE的最大问题不是Outage,outage一般都是bug,failover机制,路由
等等出了问题,一般还是可以fix的。LSE的问题是latency,远远超过了
竞争者,这才是不管花多少钱都重写的原因。
像这样的项目,LSE不差钱,不是上不起好硬件。MS赔钱赚吆喝都愿意。
上的肯定也是最好的工程师,整成这样只能说整个Windows+.Net stack
天生有缺陷。LSE换到Linux之后latency就下来了,后来的crash据说
是human error。但不管如何,Linux/Java上有的是成功例子,NYSE可比LSE
大多了。LSE基本上断了所有.Net在类似系统上被部署的可能。

【在 s***o 的大作中提到】
: 抹黑M$是本版的优良传统,不能丢啊。
: C#比Java好用是毫无疑问的,但远达不到能引起质变的程度,就像Java对C++的颠覆那
: 样。而且系统做大点,肯定要牵扯到很多其他东西比如平台。那个LSE的例子,问题应
: 该主要是在Windows Server上。不过,如果我没记错,导致crash的直接原因并不是来
: 自windows 或.NET,而是Cisco做的一个东西。后来换到linux平台后,也是glitch不断
: ,而且也有过一次很厉害的crash。

相关主题
《C# 5.0 核心技术》第5版[PDF]JAVA generic programming 是怎么实现的?
Java 8 闪亮发布了C到底能走多远。。。。。。
其实微软是个做语言的公司这个C#是为了啥?
n*******e
发帖数: 62
s***o
发帖数: 2191
102
那个latency还是很惊人的,好像是从4.xx秒提升到0.xx秒。 我一直没有找到微软阵营
或者反微软阵营的具体分析这到底是什么问题引起来的。

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: LSE的最大问题不是Outage,outage一般都是bug,failover机制,路由
: 等等出了问题,一般还是可以fix的。LSE的问题是latency,远远超过了
: 竞争者,这才是不管花多少钱都重写的原因。
: 像这样的项目,LSE不差钱,不是上不起好硬件。MS赔钱赚吆喝都愿意。
: 上的肯定也是最好的工程师,整成这样只能说整个Windows+.Net stack
: 天生有缺陷。LSE换到Linux之后latency就下来了,后来的crash据说
: 是human error。但不管如何,Linux/Java上有的是成功例子,NYSE可比LSE
: 大多了。LSE基本上断了所有.Net在类似系统上被部署的可能。

g*****g
发帖数: 34805
103
没有这么夸张。4.x秒的exchange根本没法用。从几百微秒降到100出头。
原来的系统多半到了加硬件也不能降latency的处境,才会重写。
http://linux.slashdot.org/story/10/10/24/207204/lse-breaks-worl
"The London Stock Exchange has said its new Linux-based system is delivering
world record networking speed, with 126 microsecond trading times. The news
comes ahead a major Linux-based switchover in twelve days, during which the
open source system will replace Microsoft .Net technology on the group's
main stock exchange. The LSE had long been criticised on speed and
reliability, grappling with trading speeds of several hundred microseconds.
The 126 microsecond speed is 'twice as fast' as its main international
competitors, the London Stock Exchange said. BATS Europe and Chi-X, two
dedicated electronic rivals to the LSE, are reported to have an average
latency of 250 and 175 microseconds respectively. Neither company
immediately provided details. But many of the LSE's older and more
traditional rivals offer speeds of around 300 to 400 microseconds.
Nevertheless, Linux is now standard in many exchanges, including the New
York Stock Exchange."

【在 s***o 的大作中提到】
: 那个latency还是很惊人的,好像是从4.xx秒提升到0.xx秒。 我一直没有找到微软阵营
: 或者反微软阵营的具体分析这到底是什么问题引起来的。

n*w
发帖数: 3393
104
Googled Ebay and Java, a link of theserverside.com with title of "why most
large scale Web sites are not written in Java" said Ebay is not built in
Java.

【在 n*******e 的大作中提到】
: 听说过ebay.com吧?
:
: the

g*****g
发帖数: 34805
105
That only proves you don't even know how to use google.
http://highscalability.com/ebay-history-and-architecture

【在 n*w 的大作中提到】
: Googled Ebay and Java, a link of theserverside.com with title of "why most
: large scale Web sites are not written in Java" said Ebay is not built in
: Java.

n*w
发帖数: 3393
106
The thing is, comparing with Java, c# departs further from php.

【在 n*******e 的大作中提到】
: 当年我还用PHP呢. 那才叫简单, 上手更快. 只是也就做一些一般的不关键的东西(初
: yahoo外).

n*******e
发帖数: 62
107
非常同意。 windows 底下的东西, 连微软自己也搞不定. 公司最近几年在向windows下
移植一个linux下的standard alone应用,c++写的。 结果在运行同样的数据,同样配
置的机器,在Linux 下能比windows下快50%以上,这还是请了若干微软高手优化后的结
果。

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: LSE的最大问题不是Outage,outage一般都是bug,failover机制,路由
: 等等出了问题,一般还是可以fix的。LSE的问题是latency,远远超过了
: 竞争者,这才是不管花多少钱都重写的原因。
: 像这样的项目,LSE不差钱,不是上不起好硬件。MS赔钱赚吆喝都愿意。
: 上的肯定也是最好的工程师,整成这样只能说整个Windows+.Net stack
: 天生有缺陷。LSE换到Linux之后latency就下来了,后来的crash据说
: 是human error。但不管如何,Linux/Java上有的是成功例子,NYSE可比LSE
: 大多了。LSE基本上断了所有.Net在类似系统上被部署的可能。

n*w
发帖数: 3393
108
I googled "Ebay built Java".
The follow link returned in the first page
www.theserverside.com/news/thread.tss?thread_id= 47135
I think Ebay uses Java after read more resources, at least part of it.

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: That only proves you don't even know how to use google.
: http://highscalability.com/ebay-history-and-architecture

g*****g
发帖数: 34805
109
You seriously need to learn to read.
theserverside.com post mentions a blog, and that blog ultimately
uses the informatino from highscalability.com. And guess where
I gave you the ebay architecture description?

【在 n*w 的大作中提到】
: I googled "Ebay built Java".
: The follow link returned in the first page
: www.theserverside.com/news/thread.tss?thread_id= 47135
: I think Ebay uses Java after read more resources, at least part of it.

n*w
发帖数: 3393
110
I just browsed the first paragraph. Maybe someone corrected the op. just
want a quick idea. Glad to know Java was adopted in Ebay at that time.

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: You seriously need to learn to read.
: theserverside.com post mentions a blog, and that blog ultimately
: uses the informatino from highscalability.com. And guess where
: I gave you the ebay architecture description?

相关主题
这个C#是为了啥?其实吧,C#是最好的语言。。。
[新手]一直都把C++当Java写,有啥严重不妥?看魏老师和好虫论战,总结一句话
C#说实际上更多是java拷贝C#概念。NASDAQ match engine is written in Java
k***r
发帖数: 103
111
Linkedin also uses a lot of Java (and JVM based languages like Scala) in its
backend. see its architect's presentation here:
http://www.infoq.com/presentations/Data-Infrastructure-LinkedIn
Abstract: Sid Anand presents the architecture set in place at LinkedIn and
the data infrastructure running Java and Scala apps on top of Oracle,
Voldemort, DataBus and Kafka.

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: You seriously need to learn to read.
: theserverside.com post mentions a blog, and that blog ultimately
: uses the informatino from highscalability.com. And guess where
: I gave you the ebay architecture description?

L***n
发帖数: 6727
112
mono微软自己都不待见,不是自己孩子,可怜啊...

【在 n*******e 的大作中提到】
: 其实单独争论语言好坏没有什么意义的。尤其这种运行在VM上的语言跟是如此. 本来我
: 也想引用一下london交易所的例子, 当年我很关注这件事的,因为从来没有真正的
: mission critical的地方用过.NET。london交易所当年决定上了, 那微软可是高兴的找
: 不到北了啊, 到处大肆宣传. 不曾想, 上去了结果问题百出, 没多久,london交易所
: 就不得不下定决心换了. 大家都是做软件的, 也清楚要换这么大的一个系统意味着什么
: ! 如果现有的系统能维持, 能正常运行, 没有200%的理由, 恐怕谁也不会轻易去动它
: 的。 而且这样的系统, 有谁敢说, 微软没有派最好的工程师去帮助解决问题?! 结
: 论是什么,火星人也知道。
: Java就语言本身来说, 的确没有C#提供的什么autobox, property, delegate 等等东西
: , 但是这些东西也不是说真的有多重要, 对初学者来说,这些东西可能省了不少事, 但

L***n
发帖数: 6727
113
yeah, on windows, coz nobody takes mono seriously

【在 n*w 的大作中提到】
: Clr also had ironpython, iron ruby, scalar, closure, .... Etc
n*w
发帖数: 3393
114
Yes, some people were scared because Microsoft controls clr and c#. However
Microsoft submitted the c# standard and oracle is not better than the old
Microsoft. Not sure if Microsoft wants to see the Popular third party clr
implementations. At the early stage, Microsoft helped the development of
mono.
anyway, clr/c# are keeping evolving while there is very little thing
happening on jvm/Java. Java 8 may add some functional constructs, using the
same syntax of c#.

【在 L***n 的大作中提到】
: yeah, on windows, coz nobody takes mono seriously
t****t
发帖数: 6806
115
微软一说standard, 大家都笑了.

However
the

【在 n*w 的大作中提到】
: Yes, some people were scared because Microsoft controls clr and c#. However
: Microsoft submitted the c# standard and oracle is not better than the old
: Microsoft. Not sure if Microsoft wants to see the Popular third party clr
: implementations. At the early stage, Microsoft helped the development of
: mono.
: anyway, clr/c# are keeping evolving while there is very little thing
: happening on jvm/Java. Java 8 may add some functional constructs, using the
: same syntax of c#.

g*****g
发帖数: 34805
116
You don't get it. Oracle has the copyright of Java, but it doesn't
control Java. JCP does. All big Java players have something to say
in what to include and what not to include in Java. That's why it's
slow to get new features, but it's also the reason it has great
back-compatiblity. And enterprise market values the latter more.
Many large scale back-end system has the life expectancy of 10-30
years. And it's a nightmare when single vendor dictates everything.

However
the

【在 n*w 的大作中提到】
: Yes, some people were scared because Microsoft controls clr and c#. However
: Microsoft submitted the c# standard and oracle is not better than the old
: Microsoft. Not sure if Microsoft wants to see the Popular third party clr
: implementations. At the early stage, Microsoft helped the development of
: mono.
: anyway, clr/c# are keeping evolving while there is very little thing
: happening on jvm/Java. Java 8 may add some functional constructs, using the
: same syntax of c#.

c****e
发帖数: 1453
117
Latency used to be a issue in Windows Server 2003 therefore the network
stack has a major overhaul in Vista.Now I don't think now Windows Server is
inferior on network latency from bottom up compared with Linux. Many high
frequency trading companies use .Net to build their system nowadays.

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: LSE的最大问题不是Outage,outage一般都是bug,failover机制,路由
: 等等出了问题,一般还是可以fix的。LSE的问题是latency,远远超过了
: 竞争者,这才是不管花多少钱都重写的原因。
: 像这样的项目,LSE不差钱,不是上不起好硬件。MS赔钱赚吆喝都愿意。
: 上的肯定也是最好的工程师,整成这样只能说整个Windows+.Net stack
: 天生有缺陷。LSE换到Linux之后latency就下来了,后来的crash据说
: 是human error。但不管如何,Linux/Java上有的是成功例子,NYSE可比LSE
: 大多了。LSE基本上断了所有.Net在类似系统上被部署的可能。

g*****g
发帖数: 34805
118
Trading companies are clients, they focus on trading algorithms.
They could make thousands of trades per day, not billions.
That's like saying my browser shows google search result quickly
so building google on PC is fine.

is

【在 c****e 的大作中提到】
: Latency used to be a issue in Windows Server 2003 therefore the network
: stack has a major overhaul in Vista.Now I don't think now Windows Server is
: inferior on network latency from bottom up compared with Linux. Many high
: frequency trading companies use .Net to build their system nowadays.

s*******o
发帖数: 392
119
其实讨论太多没用,关键自己做啥项目。老讨论技术真没意思,尤其像好虫那样的。
g*****g
发帖数: 34805
120
关键是老有半吊子的出来弄点耸人听闻的标题忽悠新手,
我老看不过去呀。

【在 s*******o 的大作中提到】
: 其实讨论太多没用,关键自己做啥项目。老讨论技术真没意思,尤其像好虫那样的。
相关主题
Go什么时候可能支持Generic?C# vs java
每次转换数据,看到var就想杀人How to return an array in a C++ function?
写SPARK程序很痛苦啊问一个C++ template的问题
c****e
发帖数: 1453
121
No, they focus on speed a lot. And they race on speed to get money, of
course the speed game is not only the software stack, but also hardware,
even the location you host your machine. If you got a friend in this
industry, ask them.
Building "Google" on Windows indeed is fine. Bing is built on Windows, which got billions requests per day. How
about its latency?

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: Trading companies are clients, they focus on trading algorithms.
: They could make thousands of trades per day, not billions.
: That's like saying my browser shows google search result quickly
: so building google on PC is fine.
:
: is

n*w
发帖数: 3393
122
http://www.iso.org/iso/iso_catalogue/catalogue_tc/catalogue_det

【在 t****t 的大作中提到】
: 微软一说standard, 大家都笑了.
:
: However
: the

n*w
发帖数: 3393
123
lol

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: 关键是老有半吊子的出来弄点耸人听闻的标题忽悠新手,
: 我老看不过去呀。

n*w
发帖数: 3393
124
怕得就是用copyright来打官司。
google可能有点后悔。

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: You don't get it. Oracle has the copyright of Java, but it doesn't
: control Java. JCP does. All big Java players have something to say
: in what to include and what not to include in Java. That's why it's
: slow to get new features, but it's also the reason it has great
: back-compatiblity. And enterprise market values the latter more.
: Many large scale back-end system has the life expectancy of 10-30
: years. And it's a nightmare when single vendor dictates everything.
:
: However
: the

g*****g
发帖数: 34805
125
I was using browser and google search to illustrate client/server
relationship. A market maker can be big but it's still a client to
the stock exchange system.
Even if some big market maker does a lot of trades, let's say 10% of total
trades, it's still one magnitude lower than the stock exchange system itself.
And latency has everything to do with volume. The degree of difficulty in
architecture is on different levels. And I don't know any big market maker
using C# as the main language on their bread and butter platform, otherwise
M$ would have let us know.

which got billions requests per day. How

【在 c****e 的大作中提到】
: No, they focus on speed a lot. And they race on speed to get money, of
: course the speed game is not only the software stack, but also hardware,
: even the location you host your machine. If you got a friend in this
: industry, ask them.
: Building "Google" on Windows indeed is fine. Bing is built on Windows, which got billions requests per day. How
: about its latency?

n*w
发帖数: 3393
126
下面这段是别人写于2009年的,其中“"a language that's run by a corporation
rather than a community" is actually more of an issue with Java than it is C
#;”这句现在还适用吗?
"
There's nothing "sudden" about the popularity of C#, it's been quite popular
since its birth at the turn of the century.
Also, I don't understand how you can consider C# to be a step backwards from
Java; if anything, C# is several steps ahead of Java. The cross-platform "
issue" you mention is only an issue of politics and not one of technical
capabilities; Microsoft (erroneously, IMO, but that's neither here nor there
) sees no value in doing the work of bringing the .NET platform to non-MS
platforms. The other issue... "a language that's run by a corporation rather
than a community" is actually more of an issue with Java than it is C#; Sun
still controls Java with an iron fist, despite IBM's continual pleas. Edit:
Not anymore. Now IBM has to beg Oracle to modify Java...
So, to the actual question, why is C# popular?
Because:
It really is a great platform for programming. There are numerous
improvements over Java, such as:
Value Types
Properties
Delegates and Events
Global Assembly Cache
Runtime Generic Support
It's constantly evolving, both in terms of library support and new language
features. For example:
LINQ (it will change the way you iterate a collection!)
Lambda Expressions
WCF
WPF
Closures
And coming up in C# 4:
Dynamic types and the DLR (i.e. runtime type binding, like python)
Named and Optional arguments
Covariance and Contravariance
"
g*****g
发帖数: 34805
127
Java has been out for 18 years, 7 major versions. Barring some
trivial syntax sugars, the only major additions in the language were
generics
and annotation in Java 5. It's safe to say the language will be fine
for next 10 years without a single change.
What matters most is the library, and the community will continue to build
on it. With or without new features. In the last decade, it wasn't new
language
features that make Java more productive, but the innovation of frameworks
like Strusts, Spring, hibernate. None of those were created by Sun/Oracle.
Libraries do the heavy lifting, language features are really trivial in
comparison.

C
popular
from
there

【在 n*w 的大作中提到】
: 下面这段是别人写于2009年的,其中“"a language that's run by a corporation
: rather than a community" is actually more of an issue with Java than it is C
: #;”这句现在还适用吗?
: "
: There's nothing "sudden" about the popularity of C#, it's been quite popular
: since its birth at the turn of the century.
: Also, I don't understand how you can consider C# to be a step backwards from
: Java; if anything, C# is several steps ahead of Java. The cross-platform "
: issue" you mention is only an issue of politics and not one of technical
: capabilities; Microsoft (erroneously, IMO, but that's neither here nor there

G***l
发帖数: 355
128
他那么说就没意思了。这是bbs,不是教科书,很多东西根本就没有对错,或者带有个
人主观意见,或者舒发下感想。就像足球版上,有人觉得巴萨最强,有人觉得皇马最强
,可能支持某一方的多一些,何必说什么我老看球20年了你懂啥,说和自己意见不一样
的球盲。

【在 n*w 的大作中提到】
: lol
n*w
发帖数: 3393
129
那些framework当然很重要,一个系统不只是要一个好的system pattern。具体细节的
实现还是要人一句句的写啊。这两者都重要。

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: Java has been out for 18 years, 7 major versions. Barring some
: trivial syntax sugars, the only major additions in the language were
: generics
: and annotation in Java 5. It's safe to say the language will be fine
: for next 10 years without a single change.
: What matters most is the library, and the community will continue to build
: on it. With or without new features. In the last decade, it wasn't new
: language
: features that make Java more productive, but the innovation of frameworks
: like Strusts, Spring, hibernate. None of those were created by Sun/Oracle.

G***l
发帖数: 355
130
It's safe to say the language will be fine
你这句话就太绝对了。你主观喜欢Java,或者客观觉得Java好,没人会有意见。我个人
觉得Java也是最好的之一。但IT新技术变化那么快,你永远不知道10年会有多大变化。
。C++时间比Java更久了,committee那帮人比Java的还懒,虽说现在总的使用率比Java
低点,但也是最popular的语言之一。按道理说更不需要变化,但人家在C++11里还是加
了很多东西,而且获得一片叫好。包括像lambda expression,还有foreach loop,
auto这些可以说是语法糖的东西。
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n*w
发帖数: 3393
131
原帖都是Migual de Icaza的话。
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miguel_de_Icaza#cite_note-14

【在 G***l 的大作中提到】
: 他那么说就没意思了。这是bbs,不是教科书,很多东西根本就没有对错,或者带有个
: 人主观意见,或者舒发下感想。就像足球版上,有人觉得巴萨最强,有人觉得皇马最强
: ,可能支持某一方的多一些,何必说什么我老看球20年了你懂啥,说和自己意见不一样
: 的球盲。

n*w
发帖数: 3393
132
这个10年比“light year”更让人吃惊。可能10年太具体而不像比喻。
Java 8好像要加包括lambda在内的一堆东西。


Java

【在 G***l 的大作中提到】
: It's safe to say the language will be fine
: 你这句话就太绝对了。你主观喜欢Java,或者客观觉得Java好,没人会有意见。我个人
: 觉得Java也是最好的之一。但IT新技术变化那么快,你永远不知道10年会有多大变化。
: 。C++时间比Java更久了,committee那帮人比Java的还懒,虽说现在总的使用率比Java
: 低点,但也是最popular的语言之一。按道理说更不需要变化,但人家在C++11里还是加
: 了很多东西,而且获得一片叫好。包括像lambda expression,还有foreach loop,
: auto这些可以说是语法糖的东西。

g*****g
发帖数: 34805
133
Java 都18年了,那点语言变化还不如几个主流架构的影响大。Java 5到现在8年,
语言基本没有变化。别说C#了,Scala在feature上远远超过了Java/C#,但没有
一个feature是公认的killer feature。而且
有annotation存在,Java语言本身就有很好的扩展性。
以史为鉴,过去18年都不重要的东西,Java已经进入成熟期。下个10年更不重要。
你这不是客不客观的事情,根本就是不肯面对现实。C++最大的批评,不是那点语言糖,
而是标准类库太小。Java可以不改变语言,不等于不能进化类库。类库才是开发
效率的关键,你这整一个逐本求末。


Java

【在 G***l 的大作中提到】
: It's safe to say the language will be fine
: 你这句话就太绝对了。你主观喜欢Java,或者客观觉得Java好,没人会有意见。我个人
: 觉得Java也是最好的之一。但IT新技术变化那么快,你永远不知道10年会有多大变化。
: 。C++时间比Java更久了,committee那帮人比Java的还懒,虽说现在总的使用率比Java
: 低点,但也是最popular的语言之一。按道理说更不需要变化,但人家在C++11里还是加
: 了很多东西,而且获得一片叫好。包括像lambda expression,还有foreach loop,
: auto这些可以说是语法糖的东西。

n*w
发帖数: 3393
134
我在期待Java 8的lambda expressions。
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_version_history#Java_SE_8
Java 8 is expected in summer 2013[76] and will include at a minimum the
features that were planned for Java 7 but later deferred.
Modularization of the JDK under Project Jigsaw[83][84]
Language-level support for lambda expressions (officially, lambda
expressions; unofficially, closures) under Project Lambda.[85] There was an
ongoing debate in the Java community on whether to add support for lambda
expressions.[86][87] Sun later declared that lambda expressions would be
included in Java and asked for community input to refine the feature.[88]
Parts of project Coin that are not included in Java 7
Tight integration with JavaFX [89]

糖,

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: Java 都18年了,那点语言变化还不如几个主流架构的影响大。Java 5到现在8年,
: 语言基本没有变化。别说C#了,Scala在feature上远远超过了Java/C#,但没有
: 一个feature是公认的killer feature。而且
: 有annotation存在,Java语言本身就有很好的扩展性。
: 以史为鉴,过去18年都不重要的东西,Java已经进入成熟期。下个10年更不重要。
: 你这不是客不客观的事情,根本就是不肯面对现实。C++最大的批评,不是那点语言糖,
: 而是标准类库太小。Java可以不改变语言,不等于不能进化类库。类库才是开发
: 效率的关键,你这整一个逐本求末。
:
: 。

G***l
发帖数: 355
135
C++的类库虽然明显不如Java/.NET,但是也有STL,Boost,QT,还有微软的那套等等,
总的质量还是不错的。C++的主要问题不是类库,而是语言本身。C++太巨大,太复杂了
,对于写程序的人,写点程序大多精力都要考虑那些乱七八糟的细节,而不是程序要实
现的feature本身。

糖,

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: Java 都18年了,那点语言变化还不如几个主流架构的影响大。Java 5到现在8年,
: 语言基本没有变化。别说C#了,Scala在feature上远远超过了Java/C#,但没有
: 一个feature是公认的killer feature。而且
: 有annotation存在,Java语言本身就有很好的扩展性。
: 以史为鉴,过去18年都不重要的东西,Java已经进入成熟期。下个10年更不重要。
: 你这不是客不客观的事情,根本就是不肯面对现实。C++最大的批评,不是那点语言糖,
: 而是标准类库太小。Java可以不改变语言,不等于不能进化类库。类库才是开发
: 效率的关键,你这整一个逐本求末。
:
: 。

N********n
发帖数: 8363
136
You just knew the LSE spin would pop up, ain't you? So what happened
after LSE switched to the so-called "better" Linux platform then?
Well a major CRASH that halt trade.
http://www.zdnet.co.uk/blogs/mapping-babel-10017967/lses-linux-
Notice how every .Net basher conveniently left that part of story out
of the discussion, which does not surprise me at all.
g*****g
发帖数: 34805
137
Can you read at all? The new system resolves the latency issue from
first day. So it's there to stay. It may have some glitches, and
all systems have, but none of them was as bad as 8 hours halt happened
in the previous system. That Linux winning on both counts.
BTW, LSE isn't the biggest exchange in the world. You can always look
up NYSE for successful story. The problem with .net camp is that it has
none there.

【在 N********n 的大作中提到】
: You just knew the LSE spin would pop up, ain't you? So what happened
: after LSE switched to the so-called "better" Linux platform then?
: Well a major CRASH that halt trade.
: http://www.zdnet.co.uk/blogs/mapping-babel-10017967/lses-linux-
: Notice how every .Net basher conveniently left that part of story out
: of the discussion, which does not surprise me at all.

n*w
发帖数: 3393
138
Agree

【在 G***l 的大作中提到】
: C++的类库虽然明显不如Java/.NET,但是也有STL,Boost,QT,还有微软的那套等等,
: 总的质量还是不错的。C++的主要问题不是类库,而是语言本身。C++太巨大,太复杂了
: ,对于写程序的人,写点程序大多精力都要考虑那些乱七八糟的细节,而不是程序要实
: 现的feature本身。
:
: 糖,

N********n
发帖数: 8363
139

Yeah let's look at NY shall we? What is NASDAQ running on? Windows.
What's the next FUD?

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: Can you read at all? The new system resolves the latency issue from
: first day. So it's there to stay. It may have some glitches, and
: all systems have, but none of them was as bad as 8 hours halt happened
: in the previous system. That Linux winning on both counts.
: BTW, LSE isn't the biggest exchange in the world. You can always look
: up NYSE for successful story. The problem with .net camp is that it has
: none there.

x**n
发帖数: 461
140
大家都觉得C#有很多新feature,而JAVA没有,跟我的感觉差不少。C#
的以下feature我都在用:
LINQ
Lambda Expressions
WCF
WPF
Closures
Dynamic types and the DLR
Named and Optional arguments
Covariance and Contravariance
Task
事实上可以把他们都当作扩展库,除了Dynamic是真正新东西,而且最终Dynamic从我们
的code中消失了。
但是我最想用的AOP在.NET上基本就是靠attribute了,想weaver只能靠做梦,即使有
weaver也是动态的,没有象Java那样有一堆的静态weaver。首先作为一个坚定的POCO支
持者,为了AOP而用attribute是不可理喻的。其次,动态weaver的performance
penalty有多大还不知道,如果实在不行恐怕最后还是只能回到原始的OO的路上了。
相关主题
JAVA generic programming 是怎么实现的?[新手]一直都把C++当Java写,有啥严重不妥?
C到底能走多远。。。。。。C#说实际上更多是java拷贝C#概念。
这个C#是为了啥?其实吧,C#是最好的语言。。。
x**n
发帖数: 461
141
Amazon 用的全是Java。另外,微软的一些product也是用的Java。
其实,这两个都是C++加上Garbage Collection, they are basically same thing.
The difference is subtle at the level of language. The real difference is
the platform: CLR vs JVM.
g*****g
发帖数: 34805
142
That's not funny.
https://lwn.net/Articles/411064/
NASDAQ OMX's exchanges run on thousands of Linux-based servers. These
servers handle realtime transaction processing, monitoring, and development
as well. The big challenge in this environment, of course, is performance;
real money depends on whether the exchange can keep up with the order stream
. Latency matters as much as throughput, though; orders must be responded to
(and executed) within bounded period of time. Needless to say, reliability
is also crucially important; down time is not well received, to say the
least.

【在 N********n 的大作中提到】
:
: Yeah let's look at NY shall we? What is NASDAQ running on? Windows.
: What's the next FUD?

N********n
发帖数: 8363
143

Funny isn't it Nasdaq has been using MSFT Sql Server as the mission
critical platform since way back in 2006 and you are still in denial?
http://blog.sqlauthority.com/2007/09/17/sqlauthority-news-nasda
You wanna see some job posts from Nasdaq?
http://www.careerbuilder.com/JobSeeker/Jobs/JobDetails.aspx?ipa
"The NASDAQ OMX Group is the world's largest exchange company and
recognized leader among floorless exchanges....
Required Skills & Abilities:
. must possess extensive experience in Microsoft SQL Server
administration.
. 5+ years Microsoft SQL Server DBA experience in a production
environment..."
LOL. Nice try.

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: That's not funny.
: https://lwn.net/Articles/411064/
: NASDAQ OMX's exchanges run on thousands of Linux-based servers. These
: servers handle realtime transaction processing, monitoring, and development
: as well. The big challenge in this environment, of course, is performance;
: real money depends on whether the exchange can keep up with the order stream
: . Latency matters as much as throughput, though; orders must be responded to
: (and executed) within bounded period of time. Needless to say, reliability
: is also crucially important; down time is not well received, to say the
: least.

g*****g
发帖数: 34805
144
LOL. M$ is very creative in marketing progangda and I was expecting
you have enough IQ to read the fine print. This is the official
case study from M$.
http://www.microsoft.com/casestudies/Case_Study_Detail.aspx?Cas
it deployed Microsoft? SQL Server? 2005 on two 4-node clusters to support
its Market Data Dissemination System (MDDS). Every trade that is processed
in the NASDAQ marketplace goes through the MDDS system, with SQL Server 2005
handling some 5,000 transactions per second at market open. SQL Server 2005
simultaneously handles about 100,000 queries a day,
Obviously you don't have any experience in high scalability system.
Two 4 node clusters, 5,000 transaction/s, 100,000 queries/day. LOL.
Even our production environment is easily 10 times bigger than that.
This is MDDS that performs a trivial task, not stock exchange system.
But you can't tell.
Of course M$ stack is capable on small and midrange projects that doesn't
have high requirement on latency. And most M$ shops live on that. I am
not surprised they need some DBA on MS SQL server.

【在 N********n 的大作中提到】
:
: Funny isn't it Nasdaq has been using MSFT Sql Server as the mission
: critical platform since way back in 2006 and you are still in denial?
: http://blog.sqlauthority.com/2007/09/17/sqlauthority-news-nasda
: You wanna see some job posts from Nasdaq?
: http://www.careerbuilder.com/JobSeeker/Jobs/JobDetails.aspx?ipa
: "The NASDAQ OMX Group is the world's largest exchange company and
: recognized leader among floorless exchanges....
: Required Skills & Abilities:
: . must possess extensive experience in Microsoft SQL Server

N********n
发帖数: 8363
145

In your own linux propaganda article from lwn.net/Articles/411064/
it claims to run "thousands machines" to achieve "up to a million
tranctions per second".
I'm gonna give you a break here, let's say it's just 2000 machines.
1M / 2000 = 500 transactions per second. The 8 sql server nodes OTOH
achieve 5000 / second, and that's 5000 / 8 = 600+ each.
So answer me please which is greater here: 600+ or 500? Are you sure
you have enough IQ to decide? How about a calculator? LOL
You are hilarious. MSFT 2005 solution beats your 2010 Linux suckers
by an easy 20% and you have the never to trash SQL Server?
As for "high scalability" laughing stock you brag about, why don't you
sell it to Nasdaq or some financial firms and see how soon they toss
it away. High scalability, give me a break.

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: LOL. M$ is very creative in marketing progangda and I was expecting
: you have enough IQ to read the fine print. This is the official
: case study from M$.
: http://www.microsoft.com/casestudies/Case_Study_Detail.aspx?Cas
: it deployed Microsoft? SQL Server? 2005 on two 4-node clusters to support
: its Market Data Dissemination System (MDDS). Every trade that is processed
: in the NASDAQ marketplace goes through the MDDS system, with SQL Server 2005
: handling some 5,000 transactions per second at market open. SQL Server 2005
: simultaneously handles about 100,000 queries a day,
: Obviously you don't have any experience in high scalability system.

s*****n
发帖数: 5488
146
你老是java高手,不是社会学高手。
从社会学变化来说,编程语言是winner take all的game.
现在C#即使领先java一米。10年后领先三四个光年小意思。20年大家都忘了what is
java.
公平讲,如果不是C#不是windows上baby.现在谁还会用java?

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: 我老用了一年多的Scala,Scala可比C# functional多了。Scala比Java,C#,
: Feature都多多了,你要是Scala写得好,代码也比C#短多了。是不是Scala
: 就比C# light year ahead?
: 所以我一直说,加点functional feature可以,个人喜好不同我也不强求,非
: 说light year ahead纯胡扯。你要说C#是西施,functional加的多一分嫌多,
: 少一分太少,那就是宗教了。
:
: average
: 久C

s*****n
发帖数: 5488
147
新的exchange data center讲完全构筑于c#上。这可比网站复杂好几(十?)倍。

the

【在 n*w 的大作中提到】
: Curiously, is any similar system built on Java?
: I think it's a sad story of managed platform. I won't cheer if Java has the
: similar story happened on Java (being replaced by a unmanaged platform).
: Is the largest website built with .net Dell.com? What's the big site built
: with Java?

w***g
发帖数: 5958
148
当年risc出来的时候大家也都这么想。即使C#在技术上比java好了,market也不一定就
能做的过java。更何况C#和java相比并没有颠覆性的优势。我自己觉得goodbug的说法
非常正确,在java和C#这件事上和goodbug相左的观点都是错误的。还要补充的是C#事
实上和windows是捆绑的,而windows的市场在android的冲击下正在减少。新出来的app
如果要跨平台,C#并不是一个好的选择。在高端服务器市场Linux比windows强我觉得是
大家公认的。剩下C#还能搞的就是中断和低端服务器上的市场,而这个市场又在受
cloud computing的冲击。不管怎么看,windows的前景都不是很明了。在这种情况下上
一个跟windows捆绑的东西我觉得并不是明智的做法。
至于技术,Anders Hejlsberg那是PC平台上一顶一的高手,是我上本科之前最崇拜的人
。在C#之前的两个作品Turbo pascal和delphi每一个出来都是超出当时人们想象的。C#
的轰动性我觉得没那两个那么大,但相比之下更加成熟。一般人一提C#总是跟java比,
但是我七八年前第一次玩visual C#的感觉是:怎么跟delphi这么像。不过技术总是搞
不过市场的。当年delphi和C++ builder牛B吧,但是生不逢时,碰到了微软在业界一家
独大的局面,最后也不得不败给技术上落后十年的visual平台。要我说微软要是把.net
平台公开了,那么要跟java一争高下还是有可能的,不过对微软来说那样无异于自取灭
亡。Anders亏就亏在微软的市场策略上,真实可惜了一身才干。
还有就是后出来的语言在技术上是有优势的。比如Google的go,我觉得在语言上应该比
java和C#都牛。不过估计google都没有信心投钱给go做一个能够和java匹敌的library。
我胡说八道,大家还是以goodbug为准。

【在 s*****n 的大作中提到】
: 你老是java高手,不是社会学高手。
: 从社会学变化来说,编程语言是winner take all的game.
: 现在C#即使领先java一米。10年后领先三四个光年小意思。20年大家都忘了what is
: java.
: 公平讲,如果不是C#不是windows上baby.现在谁还会用java?

n*w
发帖数: 3393
149
Curiously what you use aop for?
Which framework you use?

【在 x**n 的大作中提到】
: 大家都觉得C#有很多新feature,而JAVA没有,跟我的感觉差不少。C#
: 的以下feature我都在用:
: LINQ
: Lambda Expressions
: WCF
: WPF
: Closures
: Dynamic types and the DLR
: Named and Optional arguments
: Covariance and Contravariance

d******k
发帖数: 4295
150
cloud computing对于windows用户的冲击几年内不会很大。
出于数据安全性和维持现状的考虑,大部分中小型公司不会轻易换平台的。
靠这些数量庞大的客户,.net和C#可以活的很好。

app
C#

【在 w***g 的大作中提到】
: 当年risc出来的时候大家也都这么想。即使C#在技术上比java好了,market也不一定就
: 能做的过java。更何况C#和java相比并没有颠覆性的优势。我自己觉得goodbug的说法
: 非常正确,在java和C#这件事上和goodbug相左的观点都是错误的。还要补充的是C#事
: 实上和windows是捆绑的,而windows的市场在android的冲击下正在减少。新出来的app
: 如果要跨平台,C#并不是一个好的选择。在高端服务器市场Linux比windows强我觉得是
: 大家公认的。剩下C#还能搞的就是中断和低端服务器上的市场,而这个市场又在受
: cloud computing的冲击。不管怎么看,windows的前景都不是很明了。在这种情况下上
: 一个跟windows捆绑的东西我觉得并不是明智的做法。
: 至于技术,Anders Hejlsberg那是PC平台上一顶一的高手,是我上本科之前最崇拜的人
: 。在C#之前的两个作品Turbo pascal和delphi每一个出来都是超出当时人们想象的。C#

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Go什么时候可能支持Generic?C# vs java
s***o
发帖数: 2191
151
不久前看过一个统计。Windows Server作为Web Server的比例虽然大幅下降,但在
Enterprise方面的占有率是上升的。

【在 d******k 的大作中提到】
: cloud computing对于windows用户的冲击几年内不会很大。
: 出于数据安全性和维持现状的考虑,大部分中小型公司不会轻易换平台的。
: 靠这些数量庞大的客户,.net和C#可以活的很好。
:
: app
: C#

c****e
发帖数: 1453
152
Microsoft gains much momentum from cloud computing. Windows Server 8 will be
a big hit on backend. The virtualization solution would give VMWare a
really hard time. Even now people starts to use Hyper-V to host Linux farm.
From my perspective, Windows Server is the most envolving product from
Microsoft.

【在 s***o 的大作中提到】
: 不久前看过一个统计。Windows Server作为Web Server的比例虽然大幅下降,但在
: Enterprise方面的占有率是上升的。

g*****g
发帖数: 34805
153
You are wrong. And you've been wrong every time. But this?
You thought Nasdaq was running on 2 4nodes MS SQL server and that's deadly
wrong. And you have no experience on scalability whatsoever and you are
talking like scaling something to 1m transactions/s is as simple as 5000/s
as long as you have 200 more times hardware there. You don't know how the
hardware compares. You don't know the latency requirement, you don't know
the redundancy requirement. But you compare nonetheless just because you
want to save some face.
LOL, you are talking like replicating data through 8 nodes with low latency
is as easy as replicating on 2000 nodes. You don't have adequate knowledge
to how to achieve this at all. Give yourself a break.

【在 N********n 的大作中提到】
:
: In your own linux propaganda article from lwn.net/Articles/411064/
: it claims to run "thousands machines" to achieve "up to a million
: tranctions per second".
: I'm gonna give you a break here, let's say it's just 2000 machines.
: 1M / 2000 = 500 transactions per second. The 8 sql server nodes OTOH
: achieve 5000 / second, and that's 5000 / 8 = 600+ each.
: So answer me please which is greater here: 600+ or 500? Are you sure
: you have enough IQ to decide? How about a calculator? LOL
: You are hilarious. MSFT 2005 solution beats your 2010 Linux suckers

g*****g
发帖数: 34805
154
问题是C#没有领先Java一米。多的一点feature连Scala都比不上,对实现类库没有大的
影响。出了windows还跑不了,各种类库差远了。
在企业应用里后两点的影响远远比一点feature重要多了。我堆出大量事实证明了这两
点。信不信都是可以的。但是车轱辘的说语言feature多所以C#就好,是没啥意义的争
论。

【在 s*****n 的大作中提到】
: 你老是java高手,不是社会学高手。
: 从社会学变化来说,编程语言是winner take all的game.
: 现在C#即使领先java一米。10年后领先三四个光年小意思。20年大家都忘了what is
: java.
: 公平讲,如果不是C#不是windows上baby.现在谁还会用java?

n*w
发帖数: 3393
155
Don't agree the first sentence.
Scala is not Java.
Agree the importance of library. But the original speaker was comparing the
languages of Java and c#.

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: 问题是C#没有领先Java一米。多的一点feature连Scala都比不上,对实现类库没有大的
: 影响。出了windows还跑不了,各种类库差远了。
: 在企业应用里后两点的影响远远比一点feature重要多了。我堆出大量事实证明了这两
: 点。信不信都是可以的。但是车轱辘的说语言feature多所以C#就好,是没啥意义的争
: 论。

g*****g
发帖数: 34805
156
I am using Scala to illustrate the marginal importance of language
featues. Scala also runs on JVM, tons of more features than Java and
C# combined, it can use all existing Java libraries too. Basically
a language with more features and no C# limitation aforementioned.
Still people don't move to it and don't see it replacing Java. What
makes C# features so special?

the

【在 n*w 的大作中提到】
: Don't agree the first sentence.
: Scala is not Java.
: Agree the importance of library. But the original speaker was comparing the
: languages of Java and c#.

D*******a
发帖数: 3688
157
what's your opinion about groovy?

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: I am using Scala to illustrate the marginal importance of language
: featues. Scala also runs on JVM, tons of more features than Java and
: C# combined, it can use all existing Java libraries too. Basically
: a language with more features and no C# limitation aforementioned.
: Still people don't move to it and don't see it replacing Java. What
: makes C# features so special?
:
: the

n*w
发帖数: 3393
158
A lot of time Only Java/c# is allowed in projects. maybe the project manager
limits it for maintenance reason.

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: I am using Scala to illustrate the marginal importance of language
: featues. Scala also runs on JVM, tons of more features than Java and
: C# combined, it can use all existing Java libraries too. Basically
: a language with more features and no C# limitation aforementioned.
: Still people don't move to it and don't see it replacing Java. What
: makes C# features so special?
:
: the

i*****o
发帖数: 1714
159
我来总结一下啊:
1。 C#作为一种programming languange比java更先进。(这一点连好虫好像都没有直
接否定过)
2。 Java的库比c#更多更稳定。
3。 Java的run time(jvm)比C#的performance更好。
至于java的run time比C#的performance好这点偶很不理解。十几年前偶们在linux和
windows NT之间做选择的时候window NT的network stack比linux快的很多啊。
n*w
发帖数: 3393
160
3. jvm is much shower if generic is used.

【在 i*****o 的大作中提到】
: 我来总结一下啊:
: 1。 C#作为一种programming languange比java更先进。(这一点连好虫好像都没有直
: 接否定过)
: 2。 Java的库比c#更多更稳定。
: 3。 Java的run time(jvm)比C#的performance更好。
: 至于java的run time比C#的performance好这点偶很不理解。十几年前偶们在linux和
: windows NT之间做选择的时候window NT的network stack比linux快的很多啊。

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g*****g
发帖数: 34805
161
I think JVM's performance is only slightly better than CLR
in most benchmarks. However, JVM runs on Linux too, that's a
big plus.

【在 i*****o 的大作中提到】
: 我来总结一下啊:
: 1。 C#作为一种programming languange比java更先进。(这一点连好虫好像都没有直
: 接否定过)
: 2。 Java的库比c#更多更稳定。
: 3。 Java的run time(jvm)比C#的performance更好。
: 至于java的run time比C#的performance好这点偶很不理解。十几年前偶们在linux和
: windows NT之间做选择的时候window NT的network stack比linux快的很多啊。

j*a
发帖数: 14423
162
mono能跑一点点的c#

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: I think JVM's performance is only slightly better than CLR
: in most benchmarks. However, JVM runs on Linux too, that's a
: big plus.

t****t
发帖数: 6806
163
你要说十几年前真的是十几年前的话, 2000年的时候kernel 2.2.0才出来, 各方面的支
持都刚刚开始, 不怎么样是可以理解的. 我记得上学那会儿有的网卡还没有linux 驱动
, 买网卡的时候还要挑一挑. 放现在, 有网卡敢不给linux做驱动? 想不想卖了, 没有
windows的驱动也要有linux的.

【在 i*****o 的大作中提到】
: 我来总结一下啊:
: 1。 C#作为一种programming languange比java更先进。(这一点连好虫好像都没有直
: 接否定过)
: 2。 Java的库比c#更多更稳定。
: 3。 Java的run time(jvm)比C#的performance更好。
: 至于java的run time比C#的performance好这点偶很不理解。十几年前偶们在linux和
: windows NT之间做选择的时候window NT的network stack比linux快的很多啊。

g*****g
发帖数: 34805
164
This is from the creator of groovy. I think groovy will continue to be
used in domains like web development. But that's about it.
http://macstrac.blogspot.com/2009/04/scala-as-long-term-replace
[quote]
Though my tip though for the long term replacement of javac is Scala. I'm
very impressed with it! I can honestly say if someone had shown me the
Programming in Scala book by by Martin Odersky, Lex Spoon & Bill Venners
back in 2003 I'd probably have never created Groovy.[quote]

【在 D*******a 的大作中提到】
: what's your opinion about groovy?
g*****g
发帖数: 34805
165
Let's not go back to mono again. Mono is not .net. C# without .net
is useless.

【在 j*a 的大作中提到】
: mono能跑一点点的c#
n*w
发帖数: 3393
166
"
Mono is a free and open source project led by Xamarin (formerly by Novell
and originally by Ximian) to create an Ecma standard compliant .NET
Framework-compatible set of tools including, among others, a C# compiler and
a Common Language Runtime.
"

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: Let's not go back to mono again. Mono is not .net. C# without .net
: is useless.

g*****g
发帖数: 34805
167
Show me some non-trival commercial mono app and we can talk.
This is beating dead horse

and

【在 n*w 的大作中提到】
: "
: Mono is a free and open source project led by Xamarin (formerly by Novell
: and originally by Ximian) to create an Ecma standard compliant .NET
: Framework-compatible set of tools including, among others, a C# compiler and
: a Common Language Runtime.
: "

n*w
发帖数: 3393
168
Oh my goodness.
Define non trivial

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: Show me some non-trival commercial mono app and we can talk.
: This is beating dead horse
:
: and

n*w
发帖数: 3393
169
I posted the mono definition because you said mono is not .net

【在 n*w 的大作中提到】
: Oh my goodness.
: Define non trivial

c****e
发帖数: 1453
170
"十几年前偶们在linux和
Maybe at that time, old Linux network stack didn't support multiple threads
well. For now, I don't think either of them is significantly faster than the
other one. Lots of factors can change the perception of speed.
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g*****g
发帖数: 34805
171
Just put up the most popular mono app here and let's see
how many people recognize it. You don't know nothing and
you keep arguing.

【在 n*w 的大作中提到】
: Oh my goodness.
: Define non trivial

L***n
发帖数: 6727
172
至少3成问题。也没见goodbug这么说过

【在 i*****o 的大作中提到】
: 我来总结一下啊:
: 1。 C#作为一种programming languange比java更先进。(这一点连好虫好像都没有直
: 接否定过)
: 2。 Java的库比c#更多更稳定。
: 3。 Java的run time(jvm)比C#的performance更好。
: 至于java的run time比C#的performance好这点偶很不理解。十几年前偶们在linux和
: windows NT之间做选择的时候window NT的network stack比linux快的很多啊。

t****t
发帖数: 6806
173
goodbug说的是如果规模够大的话, java+linux比windows+c#/.net的latency小.
neverlearn说的是两台机器的性能windows+c#/.net比java+linux在大规模的处理能力
强.
嗯嗯, 这两个不矛盾!

【在 L***n 的大作中提到】
: 至少3成问题。也没见goodbug这么说过
n*w
发帖数: 3393
174
这个更、、、: Java Is A Dead-End For Enterprise App Development
http://blogs.forrester.com/mike_gualtieri/10-11-23-java_is_a_de
g*****g
发帖数: 34805
175
NeverLearn in 2008: SilverLight will rule them all
Goodbug in 2008: LOL
Goodbug in 2012: LOL
Random guy in 2010: Java is a dead-end
Good in 2012: LOL

【在 n*w 的大作中提到】
: 这个更、、、: Java Is A Dead-End For Enterprise App Development
: http://blogs.forrester.com/mike_gualtieri/10-11-23-java_is_a_de

n*w
发帖数: 3393
176
你之前好像也有说Miguel de Icaza是random guy。

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: NeverLearn in 2008: SilverLight will rule them all
: Goodbug in 2008: LOL
: Goodbug in 2012: LOL
: Random guy in 2010: Java is a dead-end
: Good in 2012: LOL

N********n
发帖数: 8363
177

So in other words your "fabulous" community products are too lame to
divide and conquer a task, too inadequate adopt a share nothing scheme,
too insufficient to scale both up and out that you end up w/ thousands
machines bundling together to bring each other down?
Every time you "community" big mouths talk about high scalability the
pros laugh. These financial firms demand mission critical HA / DR / BI
solutions having to be backed up by promise to compensate for the loss
should any failures happen.
When that game is on the line it's platforms such as Sql Server that
can meet the challenge. Your "community" Mysql kinda stuff is no where
to be found other than those social websites where no one gives a damn
if you lose a few messages from time to time.

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: NeverLearn in 2008: SilverLight will rule them all
: Goodbug in 2008: LOL
: Goodbug in 2012: LOL
: Random guy in 2010: Java is a dead-end
: Good in 2012: LOL

N********n
发帖数: 8363
178

SilverLight has become the UI framework powering from Windows Phone to
Windows 8 Metro. It's no longer future. It's NOW, as I predicted.
You OTOH claimed that somehow JS-based web thin client is the future
while I've been calling JS-based solutions BS from day one.
Over the years we have had Google (once biggest JS apologist) leaving
for DART, PALM embracing H5/JS as the platform only to go straight to
bankruptcy and then HP wasting 1B to revive this dead horse only to no
avail and later admitting H5/JS is BS (exactly what I've been saying).
Whoever dumb enough to go the route you suggested have either given up
or failed sadly.
Morale behind the story: I tell truth. You hand out misleading BS.

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: NeverLearn in 2008: SilverLight will rule them all
: Goodbug in 2008: LOL
: Goodbug in 2012: LOL
: Random guy in 2010: Java is a dead-end
: Good in 2012: LOL

t*****n
发帖数: 4908
179
好奇JVM是用什么语言写的?难道是java?
CLR又是用什么语言写的?难道是C#?
L***n
发帖数: 6727
180
如果jvm用java写的,为编译和运行它,需要另一个jvm,为编译和运行这个jvm,
又需要另一个jvm,....

【在 t*****n 的大作中提到】
: 好奇JVM是用什么语言写的?难道是java?
: CLR又是用什么语言写的?难道是C#?

相关主题
C#说实际上更多是java拷贝C#概念。NASDAQ match engine is written in Java
其实吧,C#是最好的语言。。。Go什么时候可能支持Generic?
看魏老师和好虫论战,总结一句话每次转换数据,看到var就想杀人
t*****n
发帖数: 4908
181
不完全对吧。你见过纯java矩阵计算库?当GOTOBLAS用手工汇编代码以求得高效率的时
候,java还没摸着边呢。相对fortran/C/C++来说,java在企业中的应用只能是个baby
。nasa有千万级别的fortran代码程序。我还见过70年代的fortran/C程序,百万级别
的,现在跑的好好的。那时有java吗?
t*****n
发帖数: 4908
182
那gcc怎么办那?

【在 L***n 的大作中提到】
: 如果jvm用java写的,为编译和运行它,需要另一个jvm,为编译和运行这个jvm,
: 又需要另一个jvm,....

L***n
发帖数: 6727
183
gcc 可以编译产生naitive code直接运行,javac不能产生 native code, 所以不可能
编译jvm

【在 t*****n 的大作中提到】
: 那gcc怎么办那?
g*****g
发帖数: 34805
184
我知道你是微软的五毛,但做人也要有点底线,没知识也要有常识,
没常识也要会掩饰。预测错一次没啥,每次都错也没啥,好歹是预测。
打肿脸充胖子硬上我奉劝你还是免了吧。
历数你的惊人言论,有JS要死,SL要rule。结果呢?SL不死也差不多了,
JS倒是发展壮大了。什么dojo,jquery,extjs,框架一堆堆的,现在
是个网站都用。google整个Dart,你就觉得找到救命稻草了。IE,Safari
不支持,什么Dart就是google意淫,什么时候gmail/gmap用了再说吧。
之后拿着LSE来吹牛逼.net攻占金融市场,下场我就不重复了。
还有啥Android要死,WP要dominate Mobile。我老是做这个行业的,能不比
你清楚?这会Android占了半壁江山。WP3.9%。Nokia股价那一个惨淡。
您老这乌鸦嘴真是叫啥啥死。
我说过,这些好歹是预测,错了还可以理解。什么Nasdaq stock exachange
跑得是SQL server就是纯粹打肿脸充胖子了。峰值每秒5000个交易,用屁股
想都知道这不可能是高负载的系统。这也好意思拿出来板上忽悠?
什么用200倍的机器就可以轻松200倍的scalability,这是纯粹文盲行为,我
老都懒得批驳。都这么容易LSE何必呢,40M英镑可以买好多机器了。术业有
专攻,您老不懂的领域我奉劝你还是少说两句,多说一句多错一句,日后
都成笑谈。

【在 N********n 的大作中提到】
:
: SilverLight has become the UI framework powering from Windows Phone to
: Windows 8 Metro. It's no longer future. It's NOW, as I predicted.
: You OTOH claimed that somehow JS-based web thin client is the future
: while I've been calling JS-based solutions BS from day one.
: Over the years we have had Google (once biggest JS apologist) leaving
: for DART, PALM embracing H5/JS as the platform only to go straight to
: bankruptcy and then HP wasting 1B to revive this dead horse only to no
: avail and later admitting H5/JS is BS (exactly what I've been saying).
: Whoever dumb enough to go the route you suggested have either given up

g*****g
发帖数: 34805
185
There's still something called Oracle and DB2 that can run on
Linux server. And mission critical projects and M$ products
shouldn't be mentioned in the same sentence.

【在 N********n 的大作中提到】
:
: SilverLight has become the UI framework powering from Windows Phone to
: Windows 8 Metro. It's no longer future. It's NOW, as I predicted.
: You OTOH claimed that somehow JS-based web thin client is the future
: while I've been calling JS-based solutions BS from day one.
: Over the years we have had Google (once biggest JS apologist) leaving
: for DART, PALM embracing H5/JS as the platform only to go straight to
: bankruptcy and then HP wasting 1B to revive this dead horse only to no
: avail and later admitting H5/JS is BS (exactly what I've been saying).
: Whoever dumb enough to go the route you suggested have either given up

N********n
发帖数: 8363
186
在 goodbug (好虫) 的大作中提到: 】
So you trash JS on the Java board and then make 180 turn to root for
it here. You are a flip-flop on steroid, and you wanna talk about
"做人也要有点底线"? What 底线? Let's find out.
You first blamed LSE on MSFT. After I showed that LSE immediately
crashed after switching to Linux you started spin, "oh it's not a
hard crash, this and that, blah blah blah..."
Then you claimed NY has a bigger game that MSFT cannot handle. After
I showed that NASDAQ is actively using Sql Server to power its system
you started to spin again.
You then made the dumbest claim of all that thousands Linux servers
scaling it better than Sql Servers w/o knowing how modern commercial
DBs like Sql Servers help not only scale it up but also out to share
nothing and thus achieve mass parallelism so you would not have to
have thousands servers messing each other in the first place.
All you do is spin, spin, spin, and I smashed it with fact every time.
g*****g
发帖数: 34805
187

I bashed JS the language. But I've been calling JS to stay in web
programming all the time. It's all about practical. There're hundreds of
posts
in history to check. You shameless liar.
It's not a spin, LSE dumped windows because it never met their latency
requirement. And it cannot be fixed. Linux did, on the first day. Crash
as bad as it is, is a fixable issue.
You call NASDAQ stock exchange using SQL server. and no, that's not
stock exchange, that's a small system handling 5K transaction/s at peak.
Another lie.
You have no clue on how scalability works at all. Those thousands of Linux
servers ain't DB servers to begin with. You can't even compare them to MS
SQL server. And SQL Servers can't achieve linear scalability. Scaling
something
200 times bigger is a much more complex task, and it's only about putting up
200 times more hardware in your opinion. That's just pure ignorance. You don
't
have any real experience in high scaliblity system and every time you copied
a post off internet, you got your ass spanked.
I think you've showed off your idiocy enough on this board and becomes a
running joke. Give yourself a break.

【在 N********n 的大作中提到】
: 在 goodbug (好虫) 的大作中提到: 】
: So you trash JS on the Java board and then make 180 turn to root for
: it here. You are a flip-flop on steroid, and you wanna talk about
: "做人也要有点底线"? What 底线? Let's find out.
: You first blamed LSE on MSFT. After I showed that LSE immediately
: crashed after switching to Linux you started spin, "oh it's not a
: hard crash, this and that, blah blah blah..."
: Then you claimed NY has a bigger game that MSFT cannot handle. After
: I showed that NASDAQ is actively using Sql Server to power its system
: you started to spin again.

c***r
发帖数: 4631
188
越来越有喜感了。
n******t
发帖数: 4406
189
我觉得有啥好闹的,这两个语言差很多么?那个ahead就学哪个好了。
不过说实话,就以往经验,如果不是微软的跟着微软混,容易被坑!

continued
light
into
the
that

【在 n*w 的大作中提到】
: "Since then, both the language and the execution environment have continued
: to evolve and improve. C# went from being a slightly better Java to be light
: -years ahead. From embracing dynamic programming, bring asynchronicity into
: the language, introduce iterators, functional programming constructs,
: embrace parallelism and got a great implementation of generics. Many of the
: these features came from the research done by Don Syme and his F# team that
: have kept a steady flow of new ideas getting injected into the language."
: http://blog.xamarin.com/2012/05/01/android-in-c-sharp/

N********n
发帖数: 8363
190

On Java board you first claimed JS to be "lousy" so Google designed
GWT to avoid having to write JS. Then in this thread you claimed JS
having nice support such as jQuery. Here's a problem as jQuery is a
framework that encourages people to write JS.
So you are saying it's great now that you don't have to code JS and
it's also great now you can code JS. Either you have no clue or just
wanna talk from both sides your mouth like a snake oil salesman.
Spin and fail.
You don't know jack how trading firms setup a system. DB is front &
center as that's where the BI analysis have to come from. DB such as
Sql Server is the brain at the driver seat leaving those "thousands"
Linux non-DB servers as role players for maybe queues, cache, storage
or whatnot secondary less complex work flow meaning even less excuses
not to scale it up.
Spin and fail.

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
:
: I bashed JS the language. But I've been calling JS to stay in web
: programming all the time. It's all about practical. There're hundreds of
: posts
: in history to check. You shameless liar.
: It's not a spin, LSE dumped windows because it never met their latency
: requirement. And it cannot be fixed. Linux did, on the first day. Crash
: as bad as it is, is a fixable issue.
: You call NASDAQ stock exchange using SQL server. and no, that's not
: stock exchange, that's a small system handling 5K transaction/s at peak.

相关主题
写SPARK程序很痛苦啊问一个C++ template的问题
C# vs javaHow does template work in C++
How to return an array in a C++ function?一个C的void指针的问题
n*******e
发帖数: 62
191
this topic is totally nonsense. Strongly suggest Goodbug, Thrust, etc. DONOT
continue to post after this thread. The author just made such a nonsense
thread to earn some points, why you guys still follow him?! Take your time
to answer some real questions in the bbs.
n*******e
发帖数: 62
192

DONOT

【在 n*******e 的大作中提到】
: this topic is totally nonsense. Strongly suggest Goodbug, Thrust, etc. DONOT
: continue to post after this thread. The author just made such a nonsense
: thread to earn some points, why you guys still follow him?! Take your time
: to answer some real questions in the bbs.

n*******e
发帖数: 62
193
this topic is totally nonsense. Strongly suggest Goodbug, Thrust, etc. DONOT
continue to post after this thread. The author just made such a nonsense
thread to earn some points, why you guys still follow him?! Take your time
to answer some real questions in the bbs.
n*******e
发帖数: 62
194

DONOT

【在 n*******e 的大作中提到】
: this topic is totally nonsense. Strongly suggest Goodbug, Thrust, etc. DONOT
: continue to post after this thread. The author just made such a nonsense
: thread to earn some points, why you guys still follow him?! Take your time
: to answer some real questions in the bbs.

n*w
发帖数: 3393
195
Come on baby.
the original author has a good summery on the good feature s which c#has but
Java doesn't. It can be a good technical discussion the feature sets and
the evolution of these two major managed language s. I don't get it why you
guys get so mad.

DONOT

【在 n*******e 的大作中提到】
: this topic is totally nonsense. Strongly suggest Goodbug, Thrust, etc. DONOT
: continue to post after this thread. The author just made such a nonsense
: thread to earn some points, why you guys still follow him?! Take your time
: to answer some real questions in the bbs.

t****t
发帖数: 6806
196
我真是躺着也中枪, 一共就在楼发了两贴子打打酱油, 关我屁事阿! 你看我从来不参加
java的讨论.

DONOT

【在 n*******e 的大作中提到】
: this topic is totally nonsense. Strongly suggest Goodbug, Thrust, etc. DONOT
: continue to post after this thread. The author just made such a nonsense
: thread to earn some points, why you guys still follow him?! Take your time
: to answer some real questions in the bbs.

n*******e
发帖数: 62
197
this topic is totally nonsense. Don't waste your time here, instead answer
some real question in the bbs.
n*w
发帖数: 3393
198
Ok, let's discuss the follow topic.
Do you think if it make sense to have dynamic language feature in Java/c#?

【在 n*******e 的大作中提到】
: this topic is totally nonsense. Don't waste your time here, instead answer
: some real question in the bbs.

n*******e
发帖数: 62
199
this topic is totally nonsense. Don't waste your time here, instead answer
n*w
发帖数: 3393
200
Microsoft gave one example, the com integration. Any other reason you can
think of?

【在 n*w 的大作中提到】
: Ok, let's discuss the follow topic.
: Do you think if it make sense to have dynamic language feature in Java/c#?

相关主题
《C# 5.0 核心技术》第5版[PDF]JAVA generic programming 是怎么实现的?
Java 8 闪亮发布了C到底能走多远。。。。。。
其实微软是个做语言的公司这个C#是为了啥?
n*w
发帖数: 3393
201
Another usage of dynamic I can think of is to inter op better with objects
provided by the dynamic languages like ironpython. How Java uses the objects
of jpython? Not possible at all or in a awkward way?

【在 n*w 的大作中提到】
: Microsoft gave one example, the com integration. Any other reason you can
: think of?

n*******e
发帖数: 62
202
this topic is totally nonsense. Don't waste your time here, instead answer
g*****g
发帖数: 34805
203

It has always been my standpoint. JS is here to stay since it's the
only scripting language supported in all browsers. But it's a lousy
language also. That's why components vendors will write these ajax
components that work across browser and others can just use them
and minimize js codes. I've predicted that years ago and it's happening.
To summarize, you need to use JS since that's the only way in web
programming, but you don't have to write that much of them. Or you
don't have to write them at all in some frameworks like vaadin. Basically
I view js as a low level language google's java to js compiler shows
that perspective too.
You can argue whether application or DB should be the center of a system,
and that's a different topic. But NASDAQ doesn't run on M$ stack, plain
and simple. MS SQL server can't even run on Linux. Exactly how does M$
power NASDAQ on thousands linux boxes? You saw a trivial system that
peaks at 5000t/s and you believe that's NASDAQ stock exchange, stupid
just gets stupider.

【在 N********n 的大作中提到】
:
: On Java board you first claimed JS to be "lousy" so Google designed
: GWT to avoid having to write JS. Then in this thread you claimed JS
: having nice support such as jQuery. Here's a problem as jQuery is a
: framework that encourages people to write JS.
: So you are saying it's great now that you don't have to code JS and
: it's also great now you can code JS. Either you have no clue or just
: wanna talk from both sides your mouth like a snake oil salesman.
: Spin and fail.
: You don't know jack how trading firms setup a system. DB is front &

s*******o
发帖数: 392
204
好虫最近股票投资肯定亏瞎眼了,和猛哥一样,去篮球板恶心喜欢jeremy lin的人,表
现一模一样,死倔,还有点犯贱找骂。做股票的一般都失败,失败了会externalize自
己的问题,会较真。大家散了吧,写程序主要是解决问题,c#进步挺快。
L***n
发帖数: 6727
205
关于nyse用没用.net和java,各用多少等等的问题,呼唤牛牛写个101科普一下,
我还是一头雾水没看明白,就看俩人掐架了

【在 s*******o 的大作中提到】
: 好虫最近股票投资肯定亏瞎眼了,和猛哥一样,去篮球板恶心喜欢jeremy lin的人,表
: 现一模一样,死倔,还有点犯贱找骂。做股票的一般都失败,失败了会externalize自
: 己的问题,会较真。大家散了吧,写程序主要是解决问题,c#进步挺快。

g*****g
发帖数: 34805
206
你傻比吧。我老是jemery lin的强力支持者,这版上犯贱找骂
的是谁,看看title就知道了。我老从来不开这种帖子。
我老最近根本就没做股票。

【在 s*******o 的大作中提到】
: 好虫最近股票投资肯定亏瞎眼了,和猛哥一样,去篮球板恶心喜欢jeremy lin的人,表
: 现一模一样,死倔,还有点犯贱找骂。做股票的一般都失败,失败了会externalize自
: 己的问题,会较真。大家散了吧,写程序主要是解决问题,c#进步挺快。

n*w
发帖数: 3393
207
Lol. All the words in the op is copied from the page of Miguel. Feature-wise
, Java is inferior to c#, even after the discussion here. It's a pure
technical discussion. I don't know why you guys are so upset.

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: 你傻比吧。我老是jemery lin的强力支持者,这版上犯贱找骂
: 的是谁,看看title就知道了。我老从来不开这种帖子。
: 我老最近根本就没做股票。

g*****g
发帖数: 34805
208
I am not upset at all. I am just pointing out the obvious. He's
the creator of Mono and what do you expect him to say? Isn't he
a well known M$ ass kisser?
Quoting his words to prove C# is superior is no different from
quoting my words to prove Java is superior. Both are biased.
At least I substantiate my claim, and he didn't do that in that blog.
From wiki for this guy.
Advocacy of Microsoft technologies
De Icaza endorsed Microsoft's Office Open XML (OOXML) document standard,[10]
[11][12] disagreeing with a lot of the widespread criticism in the open
source and free software community.
He has also been a long time advocate of using Mono - a free software
implementation of Microsoft's .NET Framework - in GNOME.[13] This has raised
much disagreement due to the patents that Microsoft holds on, and related
to, the .NET Framework.
.
In early 2010 he received a Microsoft MVP Award.[14]

wise

【在 n*w 的大作中提到】
: Lol. All the words in the op is copied from the page of Miguel. Feature-wise
: , Java is inferior to c#, even after the discussion here. It's a pure
: technical discussion. I don't know why you guys are so upset.

d********u
发帖数: 5383
209
As always, you take this as a religion, be out of mind and finally throw
shit out of your mouth which is supposed to do something else but somehow
functions as your bottom. Take it easy, open-source loser dick sucker. you
like to label yourself this way?
By the way, crash is the P0 issue and not acceptable in any circumstances in
business world. It looks to me you think crash is ok for LSE as long as it'
s fixable. What a shame! Maybe the garbage company you are working for don't
care about this since you already know you are making garbage every day? Go
potty, man. Don't forget to wipe you mouth up.

10]

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: I am not upset at all. I am just pointing out the obvious. He's
: the creator of Mono and what do you expect him to say? Isn't he
: a well known M$ ass kisser?
: Quoting his words to prove C# is superior is no different from
: quoting my words to prove Java is superior. Both are biased.
: At least I substantiate my claim, and he didn't do that in that blog.
: From wiki for this guy.
: Advocacy of Microsoft technologies
: De Icaza endorsed Microsoft's Office Open XML (OOXML) document standard,[10]
: [11][12] disagreeing with a lot of the widespread criticism in the open

g*****g
发帖数: 34805
210
LOL, you don't know what you are talking about. I don't think crash
is OK. But high latency is a non starter. And M$ stack sucked in both
counts for LSE. I said LSE decided to replace M$ crap due to latency
issue, not crash. You don't throw out 40M investment due to a crash,
as long as it's fixable. A 7 hours crash on M$ was just the nail on
the coffin.
I worked on mobile industry and three 9s and four 9s are on the
contract. I architecture system serving millions of online users.
It's not like NeverLearn who did some silverlight on frontend
and bullshit about scalablity. I don't talk about things I don't
understand.
You can spit shit all day and it won't change the fact LSE was a PR
disaster for MS.

in
it'
't
Go

【在 d********u 的大作中提到】
: As always, you take this as a religion, be out of mind and finally throw
: shit out of your mouth which is supposed to do something else but somehow
: functions as your bottom. Take it easy, open-source loser dick sucker. you
: like to label yourself this way?
: By the way, crash is the P0 issue and not acceptable in any circumstances in
: business world. It looks to me you think crash is ok for LSE as long as it'
: s fixable. What a shame! Maybe the garbage company you are working for don't
: care about this since you already know you are making garbage every day? Go
: potty, man. Don't forget to wipe you mouth up.
:

相关主题
这个C#是为了啥?其实吧,C#是最好的语言。。。
[新手]一直都把C++当Java写,有啥严重不妥?看魏老师和好虫论战,总结一句话
C#说实际上更多是java拷贝C#概念。NASDAQ match engine is written in Java
l*********s
发帖数: 5409
211
en.

【在 n******t 的大作中提到】
: 我觉得有啥好闹的,这两个语言差很多么?那个ahead就学哪个好了。
: 不过说实话,就以往经验,如果不是微软的跟着微软混,容易被坑!
:
: continued
: light
: into
: the
: that

n*w
发帖数: 3393
212
我一开始就说过他是mono的creator。读他那篇有考虑到他会不会biased。他那段话除
了“light-year”这个比喻还是很客观的。

10]

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: I am not upset at all. I am just pointing out the obvious. He's
: the creator of Mono and what do you expect him to say? Isn't he
: a well known M$ ass kisser?
: Quoting his words to prove C# is superior is no different from
: quoting my words to prove Java is superior. Both are biased.
: At least I substantiate my claim, and he didn't do that in that blog.
: From wiki for this guy.
: Advocacy of Microsoft technologies
: De Icaza endorsed Microsoft's Office Open XML (OOXML) document standard,[10]
: [11][12] disagreeing with a lot of the widespread criticism in the open

t*******e
发帖数: 684
213
Generics is merely a compile time feature, which is removed at runtime. What
makes you think it causes JVM slower?

【在 n*w 的大作中提到】
: 3. jvm is much shower if generic is used.
N********n
发帖数: 8363
214

I have worked on .Net firms providing solutions to both the financial
sector clients and major hospitals from US to Europe handling life
and death importance. In other words, it's the big league not like
the community suckers you bragged about.
It's b/c of that background I know what major players are out there
in the field and what techniques they use so I could bust your ".Net
not good for the NY market" lies easily.
When Nasdaq's OMX team (NASDAQ's top platfrom btw) looked for .Net
people they sent us inquiry emails, sucker. We just recently brought
in a superb 20-year DB veteran once worked for Visa, and guess what
is used over there? .Net / Sql Server.
Another spin. Another denial. Another fail. LOL

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: LOL, you don't know what you are talking about. I don't think crash
: is OK. But high latency is a non starter. And M$ stack sucked in both
: counts for LSE. I said LSE decided to replace M$ crap due to latency
: issue, not crash. You don't throw out 40M investment due to a crash,
: as long as it's fixable. A 7 hours crash on M$ was just the nail on
: the coffin.
: I worked on mobile industry and three 9s and four 9s are on the
: contract. I architecture system serving millions of online users.
: It's not like NeverLearn who did some silverlight on frontend
: and bullshit about scalablity. I don't talk about things I don't

n*w
发帖数: 3393
215
Runtime casting.
"Runtime casts are inserted by the compiler to ensure that the runtime types
are what you think they are. This means that there is runtime casting that
you cannot see (the compiler inserts the casts)"

What

【在 t*******e 的大作中提到】
: Generics is merely a compile time feature, which is removed at runtime. What
: makes you think it causes JVM slower?

g*****g
发帖数: 34805
216
LOL, of course Nasdaq has many trivial and non mission-critical
projects that can employ cheap M$ shop. But they won't do that
on their bread and butter stock exchange. M$ stack simple doesn't run
on linux cluster. No matter what you try to cover up here, you lied
and you were exposed.

【在 N********n 的大作中提到】
:
: I have worked on .Net firms providing solutions to both the financial
: sector clients and major hospitals from US to Europe handling life
: and death importance. In other words, it's the big league not like
: the community suckers you bragged about.
: It's b/c of that background I know what major players are out there
: in the field and what techniques they use so I could bust your ".Net
: not good for the NY market" lies easily.
: When Nasdaq's OMX team (NASDAQ's top platfrom btw) looked for .Net
: people they sent us inquiry emails, sucker. We just recently brought

G***l
发帖数: 355
217
Java里Generics只不过是语法糖,JVM并不支持Generics。在Java里,你用一个
ArrayList,只是编译的时候检查你有没有把不是T的东西放进去,在runtime的时候
那个还是普通的ArrayList,你从里面拿出来的东西都要做type cast成T。
C#不一样,Generics只是是build in在CLR里的。List就是在runtime的时候也带有T
的信息,不需要cast。简单来说,编译的时候代码里用的不同generic class会被编译
城不同的class,这个机制跟C++的template很像。
Hejlsberg说C#更像C++而不是Java还是有一定道理的,C#可以说是采取了Java优点的C+
+,像Java来的包括简洁的语法,VM和GC,safety,丰富的类库等等。而像delegate,
generic,value type/reference type,运算符重载这些语言角度的东西都来自C++。C#
也有指针,不过用的很少。

What

【在 t*******e 的大作中提到】
: Generics is merely a compile time feature, which is removed at runtime. What
: makes you think it causes JVM slower?

N********n
发帖数: 8363
218

He's a community fool used to claim with Hibernate there's no need
to worry about DB any more, and got laughed around by those actually
worked in the real world data-intensive industry.

【在 d********u 的大作中提到】
: As always, you take this as a religion, be out of mind and finally throw
: shit out of your mouth which is supposed to do something else but somehow
: functions as your bottom. Take it easy, open-source loser dick sucker. you
: like to label yourself this way?
: By the way, crash is the P0 issue and not acceptable in any circumstances in
: business world. It looks to me you think crash is ok for LSE as long as it'
: s fixable. What a shame! Maybe the garbage company you are working for don't
: care about this since you already know you are making garbage every day? Go
: potty, man. Don't forget to wipe you mouth up.
:

g*****g
发帖数: 34805
219
That's a trivial difference. What benchmark proves that causes Java to be
slower
than C#?

types
that

【在 n*w 的大作中提到】
: Runtime casting.
: "Runtime casts are inserted by the compiler to ensure that the runtime types
: are what you think they are. This means that there is runtime casting that
: you cannot see (the compiler inserts the casts)"
:
: What

L***n
发帖数: 6727
220
怎么说着说着骂人了,这是技术版吗

【在 N********n 的大作中提到】
:
: He's a community fool used to claim with Hibernate there's no need
: to worry about DB any more, and got laughed around by those actually
: worked in the real world data-intensive industry.

相关主题
Go什么时候可能支持Generic?C# vs java
每次转换数据,看到var就想杀人How to return an array in a C++ function?
写SPARK程序很痛苦啊问一个C++ template的问题
g*****g
发帖数: 34805
221
You lie again. When did I say there's no need to worry about DB
any more with Hibernate? Show me the post.
In fact, it's because you don't want to get locked in by single DB
vendor and you want to minimize DB scalability issue by caching
on app server that's the reason you use hibernate. You don't even
get the point of ORM and you start arguing agian.

【在 N********n 的大作中提到】
:
: He's a community fool used to claim with Hibernate there's no need
: to worry about DB any more, and got laughed around by those actually
: worked in the real world data-intensive industry.

t*******e
发帖数: 684
222
断章取义啊,
Runtime casts are inserted by the compiler to ensure that the runtime types
are what you think they are. This means that there is runtime casting that
you cannot see (the compiler inserts the casts), and thus generics confer no
performance benefit over non-generics code.
注意最后被你掐掉的一句。

types
that

【在 n*w 的大作中提到】
: Runtime casting.
: "Runtime casts are inserted by the compiler to ensure that the runtime types
: are what you think they are. This means that there is runtime casting that
: you cannot see (the compiler inserts the casts)"
:
: What

g*****g
发帖数: 34805
223
吹牛逼nasdaq用MS stack跑stock exchange,被我揪出来拉不下脸了。

【在 L***n 的大作中提到】
: 怎么说着说着骂人了,这是技术版吗
G***l
发帖数: 355
224
这个说的是Java,因为JVM不支持Generics,runtime还是会做cast,所以Java里用
Generics不比不用快。C#的Generics不需要runtime cast。

types
no

【在 t*******e 的大作中提到】
: 断章取义啊,
: Runtime casts are inserted by the compiler to ensure that the runtime types
: are what you think they are. This means that there is runtime casting that
: you cannot see (the compiler inserts the casts), and thus generics confer no
: performance benefit over non-generics code.
: 注意最后被你掐掉的一句。
:
: types
: that

N********n
发帖数: 8363
225

Nasdaq needs to provide their client business intelligence analysis
on a mass scale that only a dataware house solution like Sql Server
can handle while those linux servers are sent to handle the secondary
queue/cache/file servers, sucker.

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: LOL, of course Nasdaq has many trivial and non mission-critical
: projects that can employ cheap M$ shop. But they won't do that
: on their bread and butter stock exchange. M$ stack simple doesn't run
: on linux cluster. No matter what you try to cover up here, you lied
: and you were exposed.

g*****g
发帖数: 34805
226
What a loser. Sure Nasdaq needs to give their client data for analysis.
But where did those data come from to begin with? Stock exchange is hard
because its low latency requirement. And M$ stack failed miserably there,
proven by LSE. You bullshit like you know the business. Sure their client
can obtain data and do bunch of analysis, but the requirment is much
relaxed. And it wasn't like only sql server can do this. The financial
market is ruled by *nix, Oracle and DB2.
Just answer me this simple question, did Nasdaq stock exchange run on MS
stack or did you lie?

【在 N********n 的大作中提到】
:
: Nasdaq needs to provide their client business intelligence analysis
: on a mass scale that only a dataware house solution like Sql Server
: can handle while those linux servers are sent to handle the secondary
: queue/cache/file servers, sucker.

N********n
发帖数: 8363
227

Of course the trading data has to go through the DB to make it into
the dataware house to meet not only just latency requirement but also
that of disaster recovery, high availbility and so on that Sql Server
is built for. What else you wanna spin?

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: What a loser. Sure Nasdaq needs to give their client data for analysis.
: But where did those data come from to begin with? Stock exchange is hard
: because its low latency requirement. And M$ stack failed miserably there,
: proven by LSE. You bullshit like you know the business. Sure their client
: can obtain data and do bunch of analysis, but the requirment is much
: relaxed. And it wasn't like only sql server can do this. The financial
: market is ruled by *nix, Oracle and DB2.
: Just answer me this simple question, did Nasdaq stock exchange run on MS
: stack or did you lie?

n*w
发帖数: 3393
228
谢谢解释,我没有copy最后一句就是觉得其多余。要么其作者应该附加说明一下non-
generic的boxing/unboxing/casting

【在 G***l 的大作中提到】
: 这个说的是Java,因为JVM不支持Generics,runtime还是会做cast,所以Java里用
: Generics不比不用快。C#的Generics不需要runtime cast。
:
: types
: no

g*****g
发帖数: 34805
229
WTF? SQL server doesn't run on linux at all. The had a huge linux cluster,
they didn't mention anything about windows. And you still believe the DB
is SQL server?
I get that. You don't want to be a liar you rather be an idiot.

【在 N********n 的大作中提到】
:
: Of course the trading data has to go through the DB to make it into
: the dataware house to meet not only just latency requirement but also
: that of disaster recovery, high availbility and so on that Sql Server
: is built for. What else you wanna spin?

G***l
发帖数: 355
230
真不知道你们有什么好吵的。各个语言/系统/技术,都有优缺点。
微软把LSE的系统搞砸了说以微软的技术都是傻逼?或者微软的技术绝对不能做什么什
么?你们又不是当事人怎么知道具体是怎么回事?说不定是当时.net或者windows的一
个bug现在已经fix了,说不定是整个架构就傻逼了,微软的架构师里又不是没有搓人。
SQL Server能做什么别的不能做,所以SQL Server就是最牛的了?那么那么多用Oracle
的都是脑残?听说阿里巴巴,淘宝最近要把数据中心从Oracle迁移到MySQL,所以MySQL
比Oracle牛很多?你看人家都主动迁移了。
大家都是写程序的,基本的逻辑思维还是都有的,能不能不要在有类似的观念,再加上
人身攻击,单纯就讨论技术不行么。

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: What a loser. Sure Nasdaq needs to give their client data for analysis.
: But where did those data come from to begin with? Stock exchange is hard
: because its low latency requirement. And M$ stack failed miserably there,
: proven by LSE. You bullshit like you know the business. Sure their client
: can obtain data and do bunch of analysis, but the requirment is much
: relaxed. And it wasn't like only sql server can do this. The financial
: market is ruled by *nix, Oracle and DB2.
: Just answer me this simple question, did Nasdaq stock exchange run on MS
: stack or did you lie?

相关主题
How does template work in C++Java 8 闪亮发布了
一个C的void指针的问题其实微软是个做语言的公司
《C# 5.0 核心技术》第5版[PDF]JAVA generic programming 是怎么实现的?
g*****g
发帖数: 34805
231
技术之争是没啥的。微软搞砸了本来丢脸也不会丢到neverlearn头上。
但为了找场子撒谎说nasdaq stock exchange用的是sql server,我就
不知道说啥好了。

Oracle
MySQL

【在 G***l 的大作中提到】
: 真不知道你们有什么好吵的。各个语言/系统/技术,都有优缺点。
: 微软把LSE的系统搞砸了说以微软的技术都是傻逼?或者微软的技术绝对不能做什么什
: 么?你们又不是当事人怎么知道具体是怎么回事?说不定是当时.net或者windows的一
: 个bug现在已经fix了,说不定是整个架构就傻逼了,微软的架构师里又不是没有搓人。
: SQL Server能做什么别的不能做,所以SQL Server就是最牛的了?那么那么多用Oracle
: 的都是脑残?听说阿里巴巴,淘宝最近要把数据中心从Oracle迁移到MySQL,所以MySQL
: 比Oracle牛很多?你看人家都主动迁移了。
: 大家都是写程序的,基本的逻辑思维还是都有的,能不能不要在有类似的观念,再加上
: 人身攻击,单纯就讨论技术不行么。

n*w
发帖数: 3393
232
第一帖这个图c#比java快这个多的原因之一就有generics。
这个链接有详细比较。http://www.jprl.com/Blog/archive/development/2007/Aug-31.html
其中summery的第一句就否定了你的”trivial“断言。

Summary
The generics capabilities in Java and .NET differ significantly. Syntax wise
, Java and C# generics initially look quite similar, and share similar
concepts such as constraints. The semantics of generics is where they differ
most, with .NET permitting full runtime introspection of generic types and
generic type parameters in ways that are obvious in their utility (instance
creation, array creation, performance benefits for value types due to lack
of boxing) and completely lacking in Java.
In short, all that Java generics permit is greater type safety with no new
capabilities, with an implementation that permits blatant violation of the
type system with nothing more than warnings:
List stringList = new ArrayList ();
List rawList = stringList;
// only triggers a warning
List objectList = rawList;
// only triggers a warning
objectList.add (new Object ());
for (String s : stringList)
System.out.println (s);
// runtime error: ClassCastException due to Object.
This leads to the recommendation that you remove all warnings from your code
, but if you try to do anything non-trivial (apparently typesafe arrays is
non-trivial), you get into scenarios where you cannot remove all warnings.
Contrast this with C#/.NET, where the above code isn't possible, as there
are no raw types, and converting a List to a List would (1)
require an explicit cast (as opposed to the complete lack of casts in the
above Java code), and (2) generate an InvalidCastException at runtime from
the explicit cast.
Furthermore, C#/.NET convey additional performance benefits due to the lack
of required casts (as the verifier ensures everything is kosher) and support
for value types (Java generics don't work with the builtin types like int),
thus removing the overhead of boxing, and C# permits faster, more elegant,
more understandable, and more maintainable code.


【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: That's a trivial difference. What benchmark proves that causes Java to be
: slower
: than C#?
:
: types
: that

G***l
发帖数: 355
233
不知道这个数据有多solid。但是.NET的Generics比Java的效率优势还是很明显的。.
NET没有runtime cast而且对value type有显著的优化。

wise
differ
and

【在 n*w 的大作中提到】
: 第一帖这个图c#比java快这个多的原因之一就有generics。
: 这个链接有详细比较。http://www.jprl.com/Blog/archive/development/2007/Aug-31.html
: 其中summery的第一句就否定了你的”trivial“断言。
: “
: Summary
: The generics capabilities in Java and .NET differ significantly. Syntax wise
: , Java and C# generics initially look quite similar, and share similar
: concepts such as constraints. The semantics of generics is where they differ
: most, with .NET permitting full runtime introspection of generic types and
: generic type parameters in ways that are obvious in their utility (instance

g*****g
发帖数: 34805
234
http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u32/benchmark.php?test=all&la
你这个纯粹春秋笔法呀。人第一句说的是无非就是运行时一个有type,一个没有,这个
事实。但对performance的影响,只是理论上有而已。一个程序要跑的步骤多了,有几部
是在做cast? Java跟C#比的benchmark多了去,你咋不说这个C#完败?
http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u32/benchmark.php?test=all&la

wise
differ
and

【在 n*w 的大作中提到】
: 第一帖这个图c#比java快这个多的原因之一就有generics。
: 这个链接有详细比较。http://www.jprl.com/Blog/archive/development/2007/Aug-31.html
: 其中summery的第一句就否定了你的”trivial“断言。
: “
: Summary
: The generics capabilities in Java and .NET differ significantly. Syntax wise
: , Java and C# generics initially look quite similar, and share similar
: concepts such as constraints. The semantics of generics is where they differ
: most, with .NET permitting full runtime introspection of generic types and
: generic type parameters in ways that are obvious in their utility (instance

n*w
发帖数: 3393
235
原作者有给出java和c#放在github上的源代码。不知道是否因为biased只拿差别大的来
画图。

【在 G***l 的大作中提到】
: 不知道这个数据有多solid。但是.NET的Generics比Java的效率优势还是很明显的。.
: NET没有runtime cast而且对value type有显著的优化。
:
: wise
: differ
: and

n*w
发帖数: 3393
236
我已经在另一个回帖说了怀疑原作者会不会biased。
你这个比较我以前看过。mono的速度慢但内存小。微软的clr c#比mono快。
可惜那个网站没有比较。很好奇,
”Summary
The generics capabilities in Java and .NET differ significantly


test=all&lang=csharp&lang2=java
几部
test=all&lang=csharp&lang2=java

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u32/benchmark.php?test=all&la
: 你这个纯粹春秋笔法呀。人第一句说的是无非就是运行时一个有type,一个没有,这个
: 事实。但对performance的影响,只是理论上有而已。一个程序要跑的步骤多了,有几部
: 是在做cast? Java跟C#比的benchmark多了去,你咋不说这个C#完败?
: http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u32/benchmark.php?test=all&la
:
: wise
: differ
: and

n*w
发帖数: 3393
237
瞥了几眼这个网站的mono程序。慢的几个要loop input output。真是开玩笑。
一个没有循环i/o,却用regular expression找东西。也没用编译选项。

几部

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u32/benchmark.php?test=all&la
: 你这个纯粹春秋笔法呀。人第一句说的是无非就是运行时一个有type,一个没有,这个
: 事实。但对performance的影响,只是理论上有而已。一个程序要跑的步骤多了,有几部
: 是在做cast? Java跟C#比的benchmark多了去,你咋不说这个C#完败?
: http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u32/benchmark.php?test=all&la
:
: wise
: differ
: and

N********n
发帖数: 8363
238

Their queue and redistribution cluster is a genuine NATIVE module
where neither C# nor Java would be used. And yet you spin it as if
a proof .Net is bad.
This is so pathetic. You could not prove Java is better than C# so
you bring out a native module to smear .Net.

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u32/benchmark.php?test=all&la
: 你这个纯粹春秋笔法呀。人第一句说的是无非就是运行时一个有type,一个没有,这个
: 事实。但对performance的影响,只是理论上有而已。一个程序要跑的步骤多了,有几部
: 是在做cast? Java跟C#比的benchmark多了去,你咋不说这个C#完败?
: http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u32/benchmark.php?test=all&la
:
: wise
: differ
: and

n******t
发帖数: 4406
239
LSE自己就不咋个地。。。成天出问题。。。
还有 MySQL是要比oracle牛逼了,否则也不会被买掉。

Oracle
MySQL

【在 G***l 的大作中提到】
: 真不知道你们有什么好吵的。各个语言/系统/技术,都有优缺点。
: 微软把LSE的系统搞砸了说以微软的技术都是傻逼?或者微软的技术绝对不能做什么什
: 么?你们又不是当事人怎么知道具体是怎么回事?说不定是当时.net或者windows的一
: 个bug现在已经fix了,说不定是整个架构就傻逼了,微软的架构师里又不是没有搓人。
: SQL Server能做什么别的不能做,所以SQL Server就是最牛的了?那么那么多用Oracle
: 的都是脑残?听说阿里巴巴,淘宝最近要把数据中心从Oracle迁移到MySQL,所以MySQL
: 比Oracle牛很多?你看人家都主动迁移了。
: 大家都是写程序的,基本的逻辑思维还是都有的,能不能不要在有类似的观念,再加上
: 人身攻击,单纯就讨论技术不行么。

n*w
发帖数: 3393
240
讨论技术问题不应该太情绪化。这个slide做的很情绪,虽然内容很好。中国人做的。
http://www.slideshare.net/jeffz/why-java-sucks-and-c-rocks-fina
相关主题
JAVA generic programming 是怎么实现的?[新手]一直都把C++当Java写,有啥严重不妥?
C到底能走多远。。。。。。C#说实际上更多是java拷贝C#概念。
这个C#是为了啥?其实吧,C#是最好的语言。。。
g*****g
发帖数: 34805
241
No, I was talking about linux box. I didn't even mention Java
there. In any case, it's not sql server coz it can't run on
linux. You got it now, liar?

【在 N********n 的大作中提到】
:
: Their queue and redistribution cluster is a genuine NATIVE module
: where neither C# nor Java would be used. And yet you spin it as if
: a proof .Net is bad.
: This is so pathetic. You could not prove Java is better than C# so
: you bring out a native module to smear .Net.

g*****g
发帖数: 34805
242
MySQL换Oracle不奇怪,不是Oracle不好,是因为Oracle要钱。MySql替Oracle
的项目我都干过俩了。
不过这年头有类似Cassandra的NoSQL DB,性能和Scalability上完胜Oracle,
但不支持transaction。某些领域很合适。

【在 n******t 的大作中提到】
: LSE自己就不咋个地。。。成天出问题。。。
: 还有 MySQL是要比oracle牛逼了,否则也不会被买掉。
:
: Oracle
: MySQL

j*a
发帖数: 14423
243
jvm挺耗内存的。一机子上同时跑几个java的程序为啥不能用同一个jvm呢?

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: MySQL换Oracle不奇怪,不是Oracle不好,是因为Oracle要钱。MySql替Oracle
: 的项目我都干过俩了。
: 不过这年头有类似Cassandra的NoSQL DB,性能和Scalability上完胜Oracle,
: 但不支持transaction。某些领域很合适。

N********n
发帖数: 8363
244

And who in their right mind would run full blown DBs on lower stack
nodes to begin with if not being completely clueless?

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: No, I was talking about linux box. I didn't even mention Java
: there. In any case, it's not sql server coz it can't run on
: linux. You got it now, liar?

c****e
发帖数: 1453
245
Taobao used Greenplum's product to replace Oracle because Oracle is too slow
. They claimed a used-to-be 2 hour BI query takes only minutes to finish now
. The current trend is big data analysis, where you get MPP architecture and
in-memory DB.
Non-SQL approach wins in many cases but also has its limitation. The
consistency and transaction support might be very expensive. That's why you
see more and more solutions in BI area are moving to Non-SQL but most of the
billing pipelines are still on relational DB, including Taobao and Amazon.
Since Greenplum uses postgresql, Taobao might want to build one with mysql. Sina is reported to have similar project.
p*****y
发帖数: 529
246
看不过去了, 冒泡出来说句话。
financial里backend我还没见过用.net的, 更别说trading platform了. trading
platform几乎一色 java, 只有在 equity多数用 c++, 但用java的越来越多了, 因为
写起来快。
nasdaq的不知道, nyse的是c++写的, 因为那个area traditionally belongs to c++
. 没见哪个exchange 用windows server的,谁有那勇气我只能钦佩加惋惜。
还有拿hospital的project说事, 看来你还真没做过seriously large scale
application. 不说别的, 看看pay就知道, consultant 60-70 per hour, employees
pay up to 150k (you got to lead a team to get that!) 那可是个养老的地儿.

【在 N********n 的大作中提到】
:
: And who in their right mind would run full blown DBs on lower stack
: nodes to begin with if not being completely clueless?

b***i
发帖数: 3043
247
是这样的。主要是平台问题,平台选择了linux,无法用c#。所以Java就是和c++比了,
当然很好,出错了可以看到那里错了,甚至可以在调试时改变代码,这个很重要。要实
现这个,必须用虚拟机。30年前IBM就开发了虚拟机,当时用C就可以进行死机后处理,
当然是虚拟机里面死机外面可以处理。

++
employees

【在 p*****y 的大作中提到】
: 看不过去了, 冒泡出来说句话。
: financial里backend我还没见过用.net的, 更别说trading platform了. trading
: platform几乎一色 java, 只有在 equity多数用 c++, 但用java的越来越多了, 因为
: 写起来快。
: nasdaq的不知道, nyse的是c++写的, 因为那个area traditionally belongs to c++
: . 没见哪个exchange 用windows server的,谁有那勇气我只能钦佩加惋惜。
: 还有拿hospital的project说事, 看来你还真没做过seriously large scale
: application. 不说别的, 看看pay就知道, consultant 60-70 per hour, employees
: pay up to 150k (you got to lead a team to get that!) 那可是个养老的地儿.

N********n
发帖数: 8363
248

写起来快 in comparison with C++ maybe. No one claims he could write
boiler-plate Java code faster than C#. It's the other way around.
Stock exchange is a heavy real-time system traditionally written in
native code. It's not even relevant to a C# VS Java debate and yet
some Java folks were so desperate to trash C# they decided to spin
this LSE thing out as proof that C# is bad.
One of us clearly hasn't done large scale projects for health care IT,
and it's not me. 60-70 is a senior engineer rate not team lead unless
it's a small firm. The health care sector is dominated by 3 or 4 big
players. If you can't name them on top of your head and what platform
they use then you don't know this sector.

【在 p*****y 的大作中提到】
: 看不过去了, 冒泡出来说句话。
: financial里backend我还没见过用.net的, 更别说trading platform了. trading
: platform几乎一色 java, 只有在 equity多数用 c++, 但用java的越来越多了, 因为
: 写起来快。
: nasdaq的不知道, nyse的是c++写的, 因为那个area traditionally belongs to c++
: . 没见哪个exchange 用windows server的,谁有那勇气我只能钦佩加惋惜。
: 还有拿hospital的project说事, 看来你还真没做过seriously large scale
: application. 不说别的, 看看pay就知道, consultant 60-70 per hour, employees
: pay up to 150k (you got to lead a team to get that!) 那可是个养老的地儿.

g*****g
发帖数: 34805
249
LOL,不知道拿nasdaq来鼓吹C#/windows/sql server的是谁?我提nasdaq了吗?
是您老鼓吹nasdaq用的是windows/sql server,丢人了能怪谁?
整个financial sector,几乎清一色的linux,语言就是java/c++混合。health care
sector,用户数可能很大,同时在线的用户能有多少?对latency能有啥要求?没事谁
登录医院/保险的网站呀。不懂装懂到这份上也算极品。

【在 N********n 的大作中提到】
:
: 写起来快 in comparison with C++ maybe. No one claims he could write
: boiler-plate Java code faster than C#. It's the other way around.
: Stock exchange is a heavy real-time system traditionally written in
: native code. It's not even relevant to a C# VS Java debate and yet
: some Java folks were so desperate to trash C# they decided to spin
: this LSE thing out as proof that C# is bad.
: One of us clearly hasn't done large scale projects for health care IT,
: and it's not me. 60-70 is a senior engineer rate not team lead unless
: it's a small firm. The health care sector is dominated by 3 or 4 big

n*w
发帖数: 3393
250
I know some people in wall street. I will ask them.

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: LOL,不知道拿nasdaq来鼓吹C#/windows/sql server的是谁?我提nasdaq了吗?
: 是您老鼓吹nasdaq用的是windows/sql server,丢人了能怪谁?
: 整个financial sector,几乎清一色的linux,语言就是java/c++混合。health care
: sector,用户数可能很大,同时在线的用户能有多少?对latency能有啥要求?没事谁
: 登录医院/保险的网站呀。不懂装懂到这份上也算极品。

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看魏老师和好虫论战,总结一句话每次转换数据,看到var就想杀人
NASDAQ match engine is written in Java写SPARK程序很痛苦啊
Go什么时候可能支持Generic?C# vs java
r****y
发帖数: 26819
251
quote一下:
http://www.mitbbs.com/article/Programming/31219369_3.html
"Yeah let's look at NY shall we? What is NASDAQ running on? Windows."

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: LOL,不知道拿nasdaq来鼓吹C#/windows/sql server的是谁?我提nasdaq了吗?
: 是您老鼓吹nasdaq用的是windows/sql server,丢人了能怪谁?
: 整个financial sector,几乎清一色的linux,语言就是java/c++混合。health care
: sector,用户数可能很大,同时在线的用户能有多少?对latency能有啥要求?没事谁
: 登录医院/保险的网站呀。不懂装懂到这份上也算极品。

n*w
发帖数: 3393
252
Deleted. What's the post?

【在 r****y 的大作中提到】
: quote一下:
: http://www.mitbbs.com/article/Programming/31219369_3.html
: "Yeah let's look at NY shall we? What is NASDAQ running on? Windows."

N********n
发帖数: 8363
253

You were the one bringing in first LSE and then NYSE to trash C# and
are still spinning here insisting it's "Java/C++". The lower layer
latency critical REALTIME modules are always handled by c/c++ be it
Linux or Windows. IT HAS NO BUSINESS OF JAVA WHATSOEVER. Yet you
wanna sneak in as if Java is there handling latency while C# cannot.
So why don't you give a straight answer which language is handling
the real-time latency, C/C++ or Java? If it's the former then why
are you stealing their credits? LOL
The truth is application DBs sit at the higher app layer where they
should be, and that's where Sql Server and .Net come in. That arena
used to be owned by Sun, IBM and Oracle so Java was used a lot. Now
Sun was gone, IBM's DB2 was long surpassed by Sql Server. People
start to like the performance, reliability and BI strength of Sql
Server and adopt it more and more.

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: LOL,不知道拿nasdaq来鼓吹C#/windows/sql server的是谁?我提nasdaq了吗?
: 是您老鼓吹nasdaq用的是windows/sql server,丢人了能怪谁?
: 整个financial sector,几乎清一色的linux,语言就是java/c++混合。health care
: sector,用户数可能很大,同时在线的用户能有多少?对latency能有啥要求?没事谁
: 登录医院/保险的网站呀。不懂装懂到这份上也算极品。

r****y
发帖数: 26819
254
就是139楼

【在 n*w 的大作中提到】
: Deleted. What's the post?
g*****g
发帖数: 34805
255
做人不要这么不要脸,LSE废了是事实,大量的trading platform使用
Java app server做middleware,我还给了个NYSE的索引,04年的。
你自己屁都不懂要跳出来说Nasdaq跑在windows上。我老不得已只好
证明了Nasdaq跑的是linux cluster。你傻逼就傻逼了,没见识闭嘴就是,
越争越丢人。你自己的原文如下。
发信人: NeverLearn (24K golden bear), 信区: Programming
标 题: Re: C# is light-years ahead of Java now
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Thu May 10 03:02:44 2012, 美东)

Yeah let's look at NY shall we? What is NASDAQ running on? Windows.
What's the next FUD?

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: LOL,不知道拿nasdaq来鼓吹C#/windows/sql server的是谁?我提nasdaq了吗?
: 是您老鼓吹nasdaq用的是windows/sql server,丢人了能怪谁?
: 整个financial sector,几乎清一色的linux,语言就是java/c++混合。health care
: sector,用户数可能很大,同时在线的用户能有多少?对latency能有啥要求?没事谁
: 登录医院/保险的网站呀。不懂装懂到这份上也算极品。

N********n
发帖数: 8363
256

"大量的trading platform" are using .Net as well. Just go to a job
site and search.
And whatever happens to that real-time "latency" brouhaha you have
been bullshiting around? Who's 不要脸 counted it as the strength
of Java while it's backend C/C++ modules and DB doing it?
I never said Nasdaq runs it all on Windows. Nobody cares what native
module they do at the lower stack clusters. Our solution firm are not
sending them C/C++ people. They ask for Sql Server DBAs from us and I
know for a fact they like SqlServer.

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: 做人不要这么不要脸,LSE废了是事实,大量的trading platform使用
: Java app server做middleware,我还给了个NYSE的索引,04年的。
: 你自己屁都不懂要跳出来说Nasdaq跑在windows上。我老不得已只好
: 证明了Nasdaq跑的是linux cluster。你傻逼就傻逼了,没见识闭嘴就是,
: 越争越丢人。你自己的原文如下。
: 发信人: NeverLearn (24K golden bear), 信区: Programming
: 标 题: Re: C# is light-years ahead of Java now
: 发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Thu May 10 03:02:44 2012, 美东)
:
: Yeah let's look at NY shall we? What is NASDAQ running on? Windows.

g*****g
发帖数: 34805
257
您老够极品,吐出来的狗屎还能吃回去。
"Yeah let's look at NY shall we? What is NASDAQ running on? Windows."
现在声称从没说过完全跑的是windows,
"I never said Nasdaq runs it all on Windows."
http://lwn.net/Articles/411064/
NASDAQ OMX's exchanges run on thousands of Linux-based servers.
敢问哪里提到了windows? stock exachange通常的做法就是Oracle/DB2做数据库,
Java/C++/C跑不同的模块。如果你去找工作网站,我很肯定nasdaq java比C#
招得多多了。
Java可以Handle realtime equity trade,要举例子我可以给你找。我不知道nasdaq跑
的是啥,因为找不到索引,但我不会像你这样乱喷。更没脸喷了还吃回去。

【在 N********n 的大作中提到】
:
: "大量的trading platform" are using .Net as well. Just go to a job
: site and search.
: And whatever happens to that real-time "latency" brouhaha you have
: been bullshiting around? Who's 不要脸 counted it as the strength
: of Java while it's backend C/C++ modules and DB doing it?
: I never said Nasdaq runs it all on Windows. Nobody cares what native
: module they do at the lower stack clusters. Our solution firm are not
: sending them C/C++ people. They ask for Sql Server DBAs from us and I
: know for a fact they like SqlServer.

N********n
发帖数: 8363
258

No one cites a Linux article where they discuss OS level APIs to find
proof that Windows is used. We sent Sql Server DBAs to them so we know
it for a fact, moron.
Bullshit! Tons of small broker firms claim to have real time platforms,
and it's silly talking. The main game is played by those HFT machines
written in pure native code fighting the game at nano-second level
that'd eat your slow Java wannabies fish alive if you challenge them.
Like said you don't know jack what's going on in the field.

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: 您老够极品,吐出来的狗屎还能吃回去。
: "Yeah let's look at NY shall we? What is NASDAQ running on? Windows."
: 现在声称从没说过完全跑的是windows,
: "I never said Nasdaq runs it all on Windows."
: http://lwn.net/Articles/411064/
: NASDAQ OMX's exchanges run on thousands of Linux-based servers.
: 敢问哪里提到了windows? stock exachange通常的做法就是Oracle/DB2做数据库,
: Java/C++/C跑不同的模块。如果你去找工作网站,我很肯定nasdaq java比C#
: 招得多多了。
: Java可以Handle realtime equity trade,要举例子我可以给你找。我不知道nasdaq跑

l*********s
发帖数: 5409
259
naono-second? You sure ?

【在 N********n 的大作中提到】
:
: No one cites a Linux article where they discuss OS level APIs to find
: proof that Windows is used. We sent Sql Server DBAs to them so we know
: it for a fact, moron.
: Bullshit! Tons of small broker firms claim to have real time platforms,
: and it's silly talking. The main game is played by those HFT machines
: written in pure native code fighting the game at nano-second level
: that'd eat your slow Java wannabies fish alive if you challenge them.
: Like said you don't know jack what's going on in the field.

g*****g
发帖数: 34805
260
跟你这种傻逼没啥好讨论的了。死撑到这份上,看看官方的材料吧。
windows, sql server. LOL
nasdaq OMG官方的材料
HW/processor: Intel x86, 64 bit architecture
O/S: Linux
Database: Oracle 11g
Network: Gigabit capacity or better
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&

【在 N********n 的大作中提到】
:
: No one cites a Linux article where they discuss OS level APIs to find
: proof that Windows is used. We sent Sql Server DBAs to them so we know
: it for a fact, moron.
: Bullshit! Tons of small broker firms claim to have real time platforms,
: and it's silly talking. The main game is played by those HFT machines
: written in pure native code fighting the game at nano-second level
: that'd eat your slow Java wannabies fish alive if you challenge them.
: Like said you don't know jack what's going on in the field.

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L***n
发帖数: 6727
261
en 这贴简直是死撑贴了,还有什么技术含量啊

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: 跟你这种傻逼没啥好讨论的了。死撑到这份上,看看官方的材料吧。
: windows, sql server. LOL
: nasdaq OMG官方的材料
: HW/processor: Intel x86, 64 bit architecture
: O/S: Linux
: Database: Oracle 11g
: Network: Gigabit capacity or better
: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&

h****e
发帖数: 2125
262
BATS and Direct Edge run on Windows platform, though written in C++ not C#.

++
employees

【在 p*****y 的大作中提到】
: 看不过去了, 冒泡出来说句话。
: financial里backend我还没见过用.net的, 更别说trading platform了. trading
: platform几乎一色 java, 只有在 equity多数用 c++, 但用java的越来越多了, 因为
: 写起来快。
: nasdaq的不知道, nyse的是c++写的, 因为那个area traditionally belongs to c++
: . 没见哪个exchange 用windows server的,谁有那勇气我只能钦佩加惋惜。
: 还有拿hospital的project说事, 看来你还真没做过seriously large scale
: application. 不说别的, 看看pay就知道, consultant 60-70 per hour, employees
: pay up to 150k (you got to lead a team to get that!) 那可是个养老的地儿.

h****e
发帖数: 2125
263
whats so surprising?

【在 l*********s 的大作中提到】
: naono-second? You sure ?
l*********s
发帖数: 5409
264
wow, so fast ...

【在 h****e 的大作中提到】
: whats so surprising?
N********n
发帖数: 8363
265

Dumbass can't read the job post that I already posted several pages
ago. Look here again what they are using for their dataware house:
You understand what dataware hosue is for? Moron.
http://www.careerbuilder.com/JobSeeker/Jobs/JobDetails.aspx?Job
"The Production DBA is primarily responsible for performing production
support activities for transactional SQL servers, Greenplum and PDW data
warehouses."
"The Production DBA must possess extensive experience in Microsoft SQL
Server administration. "

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: 跟你这种傻逼没啥好讨论的了。死撑到这份上,看看官方的材料吧。
: windows, sql server. LOL
: nasdaq OMG官方的材料
: HW/processor: Intel x86, 64 bit architecture
: O/S: Linux
: Database: Oracle 11g
: Network: Gigabit capacity or better
: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&

N********n
发帖数: 8363
266

There is talk about sub-nanosecond machines already now. 80% of the
current trading is done by HFT. The market is simply rigged.

【在 l*********s 的大作中提到】
: wow, so fast ...
a*****a
发帖数: 495
267
bats前几天出了大事

【在 h****e 的大作中提到】
: BATS and Direct Edge run on Windows platform, though written in C++ not C#.
:
: ++
: employees

t****t
发帖数: 6806
268
哇, nano-second level, 这真是太强大了太牛逼了, 哦我说的是牛皮
作为一个硬件工程师, 我不得不说windows上的C++超越了物理的极限...

【在 N********n 的大作中提到】
:
: There is talk about sub-nanosecond machines already now. 80% of the
: current trading is done by HFT. The market is simply rigged.

a*****a
发帖数: 495
269
超光速离子也早就报导了啊
哈哈

【在 t****t 的大作中提到】
: 哇, nano-second level, 这真是太强大了太牛逼了, 哦我说的是牛皮
: 作为一个硬件工程师, 我不得不说windows上的C++超越了物理的极限...

N********n
发帖数: 8363
270

Care to point out where I said HFT runs on Windows?
This is supposed to be a topic of enterprise platforms. Some one went
mad and decided to spin out a real-time "latency" nonsense to trash
C#. Now all of sudden it becomes a talk of real-time platforms.
Managed languages, be it C# or Java, cannot beat native code when it
comes to real-time. Hands down. Let's drop this "latency" bullshit.

【在 t****t 的大作中提到】
: 哇, nano-second level, 这真是太强大了太牛逼了, 哦我说的是牛皮
: 作为一个硬件工程师, 我不得不说windows上的C++超越了物理的极限...

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Java 8 闪亮发布了C到底能走多远。。。。。。
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JAVA generic programming 是怎么实现的?[新手]一直都把C++当Java写,有啥严重不妥?
a*****a
发帖数: 495
271
java不是可以编译成native么?我不懂java,问问

【在 N********n 的大作中提到】
:
: Care to point out where I said HFT runs on Windows?
: This is supposed to be a topic of enterprise platforms. Some one went
: mad and decided to spin out a real-time "latency" nonsense to trash
: C#. Now all of sudden it becomes a talk of real-time platforms.
: Managed languages, be it C# or Java, cannot beat native code when it
: comes to real-time. Hands down. Let's drop this "latency" bullshit.

t****t
发帖数: 6806
272
啊, 随便什么平台好了, 反正超越了物理极限, 太强大太牛逼了, 哦, 还是牛皮

【在 N********n 的大作中提到】
:
: Care to point out where I said HFT runs on Windows?
: This is supposed to be a topic of enterprise platforms. Some one went
: mad and decided to spin out a real-time "latency" nonsense to trash
: C#. Now all of sudden it becomes a talk of real-time platforms.
: Managed languages, be it C# or Java, cannot beat native code when it
: comes to real-time. Hands down. Let's drop this "latency" bullshit.

r****y
发帖数: 26819
273
放下latency不说,顺便看了一下nasdaq omx的careerbuilder,29个职位里5个senior
java,没有一个c#的。。。

【在 N********n 的大作中提到】
:
: Care to point out where I said HFT runs on Windows?
: This is supposed to be a topic of enterprise platforms. Some one went
: mad and decided to spin out a real-time "latency" nonsense to trash
: C#. Now all of sudden it becomes a talk of real-time platforms.
: Managed languages, be it C# or Java, cannot beat native code when it
: comes to real-time. Hands down. Let's drop this "latency" bullshit.

r****y
发帖数: 26819
274
都light-years了, 所以nano-second还是比较扣题的。

【在 t****t 的大作中提到】
: 啊, 随便什么平台好了, 反正超越了物理极限, 太强大太牛逼了, 哦, 还是牛皮
n*w
发帖数: 3393
275
light-years很显然是个比喻。这个nano和goodbug的“10年”都太具体。

【在 r****y 的大作中提到】
: 都light-years了, 所以nano-second还是比较扣题的。
l*********s
发帖数: 5409
276
thrust老大已经发调头了,虽然说了也白说,你这么热衷忽悠对你有啥好处啊?!

【在 N********n 的大作中提到】
:
: Care to point out where I said HFT runs on Windows?
: This is supposed to be a topic of enterprise platforms. Some one went
: mad and decided to spin out a real-time "latency" nonsense to trash
: C#. Now all of sudden it becomes a talk of real-time platforms.
: Managed languages, be it C# or Java, cannot beat native code when it
: comes to real-time. Hands down. Let's drop this "latency" bullshit.

n*w
发帖数: 3393
277
问一个,可以用scala写android app吗?
t*******e
发帖数: 684
278
Health Care用Java和.net的都有。但是对txn throughput, performance要求不高,但
是对integration, SSO, security有特别的要求。所以同意好虫说的。

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: LOL,不知道拿nasdaq来鼓吹C#/windows/sql server的是谁?我提nasdaq了吗?
: 是您老鼓吹nasdaq用的是windows/sql server,丢人了能怪谁?
: 整个financial sector,几乎清一色的linux,语言就是java/c++混合。health care
: sector,用户数可能很大,同时在线的用户能有多少?对latency能有啥要求?没事谁
: 登录医院/保险的网站呀。不懂装懂到这份上也算极品。

N********n
发帖数: 8363
279

"对txn throughput, performance要求不高"??
It's certainly not stock exchange high but still quite high. Try a
contract with big ones such as US Military hospitals and see if it's
high or not.
Healthcare IT is about imaging, workflow and data sharing. C/C++ is
used for imaging, .Net / Java for workflow and RMDBs for sharing.
You mentioned "integration" so I can tell you know the sector unlike
that fool asking "没事谁登录医院/保险?" A clueless question.

【在 t*******e 的大作中提到】
: Health Care用Java和.net的都有。但是对txn throughput, performance要求不高,但
: 是对integration, SSO, security有特别的要求。所以同意好虫说的。

d********u
发帖数: 5383
280
"seriously large scale application. 不说别的, 看看pay就知道, consultant 60
-70 per hour"
$70/h?这是在做seriously large scale app?
同学,开玩笑开成这样,你说我们是笑呢,还是不笑?

++
employees

【在 p*****y 的大作中提到】
: 看不过去了, 冒泡出来说句话。
: financial里backend我还没见过用.net的, 更别说trading platform了. trading
: platform几乎一色 java, 只有在 equity多数用 c++, 但用java的越来越多了, 因为
: 写起来快。
: nasdaq的不知道, nyse的是c++写的, 因为那个area traditionally belongs to c++
: . 没见哪个exchange 用windows server的,谁有那勇气我只能钦佩加惋惜。
: 还有拿hospital的project说事, 看来你还真没做过seriously large scale
: application. 不说别的, 看看pay就知道, consultant 60-70 per hour, employees
: pay up to 150k (you got to lead a team to get that!) 那可是个养老的地儿.

相关主题
C#说实际上更多是java拷贝C#概念。NASDAQ match engine is written in Java
其实吧,C#是最好的语言。。。Go什么时候可能支持Generic?
看魏老师和好虫论战,总结一句话每次转换数据,看到var就想杀人
n******t
发帖数: 4406
281
嗯,这事我可以说两句,这事的确是扯蛋,但是已经有不少firm用这个东西去钱多人傻
速来的华尔街赚了不少钞票。

【在 t****t 的大作中提到】
: 哇, nano-second level, 这真是太强大了太牛逼了, 哦我说的是牛皮
: 作为一个硬件工程师, 我不得不说windows上的C++超越了物理的极限...

g*****g
发帖数: 34805
282
他口口声声large scale application,决口不提同时在线用户数。
峰值每秒request数。这种系统其实都是一堆stored procedure,
数据量大,但基本没有实时处理的要求,都是后台批处理。

60

【在 d********u 的大作中提到】
: "seriously large scale application. 不说别的, 看看pay就知道, consultant 60
: -70 per hour"
: $70/h?这是在做seriously large scale app?
: 同学,开玩笑开成这样,你说我们是笑呢,还是不笑?
:
: ++
: employees

c****e
发帖数: 1453
283
作为硬件工程师你天天研读c++标准,不务正业阿。

【在 t****t 的大作中提到】
: 哇, nano-second level, 这真是太强大了太牛逼了, 哦我说的是牛皮
: 作为一个硬件工程师, 我不得不说windows上的C++超越了物理的极限...

t****t
发帖数: 6806
284
还不许人有点业余爱好么?

【在 c****e 的大作中提到】
: 作为硬件工程师你天天研读c++标准,不务正业阿。
t*******e
发帖数: 684
285
data sharing -> EAI
workflow -> BPM/Workflow Engine
These most common techniques do not make healthcare products unique.
Popular bug tracking tools all have work flow engine built-in, no exceptions.

【在 N********n 的大作中提到】
:
: "对txn throughput, performance要求不高"??
: It's certainly not stock exchange high but still quite high. Try a
: contract with big ones such as US Military hospitals and see if it's
: high or not.
: Healthcare IT is about imaging, workflow and data sharing. C/C++ is
: used for imaging, .Net / Java for workflow and RMDBs for sharing.
: You mentioned "integration" so I can tell you know the sector unlike
: that fool asking "没事谁登录医院/保险?" A clueless question.

a*****a
发帖数: 495
286
看凡人才是业余爱好

【在 t****t 的大作中提到】
: 还不许人有点业余爱好么?
t****t
发帖数: 6806
287
那个业余爱好我已经不干了, 嗯

【在 a*****a 的大作中提到】
: 看凡人才是业余爱好
n*w
发帖数: 3393
288
在tiobe上Java的位置被c代替。奇怪的是scala排在f#的后面。一直以为scala比较普遍。
http://pixelstech.net/article/index.php?id=1336803507
H*******g
发帖数: 6997
289
真热闹啊。。哈哈。话说,纳斯达克是有在招大量的C#程序员啊。既然都用C#,那招人
干嘛,发福利么。
http://jobs.careers.nasdaq.com/job-4000000001034333.htm
g*****g
发帖数: 34805
290
你自己搜吧,nasdaq招C++和Java程序员更多。

【在 H*******g 的大作中提到】
: 真热闹啊。。哈哈。话说,纳斯达克是有在招大量的C#程序员啊。既然都用C#,那招人
: 干嘛,发福利么。
: http://jobs.careers.nasdaq.com/job-4000000001034333.htm

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b***i
发帖数: 3043
291
确实是,我同学就在wallstreet做java,一个同学的哥哥以前也去了goldman sacks做
java.

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: 你自己搜吧,nasdaq招C++和Java程序员更多。
n*w
发帖数: 3393
292
这种大公司不见得同意用一种程序语言。有可能这个组用java,那个组用c#。
观察时间够长可能可以看到类似物种演化的过程。在自然界中亚种的和适应环境有关的
微小差别可能导致存亡问题。

【在 b***i 的大作中提到】
: 确实是,我同学就在wallstreet做java,一个同学的哥哥以前也去了goldman sacks做
: java.

S*********g
发帖数: 5298
293
goldman应该主要是用他们自己开发的语言

【在 b***i 的大作中提到】
: 确实是,我同学就在wallstreet做java,一个同学的哥哥以前也去了goldman sacks做
: java.

1 (共1页)
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