b******g
发帖数: 3616 | 1 看了这篇文章，还能将进博物馆、卖高价与艺术价值划等号么？
______________________________________________
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/22/business/peter-liks-recipe-fo
Peter Lik is in awe of himself. When he describes his career as a fine-art
photographer, he speaks with the satisfaction of a guy who has performed
miracles, at the pace of a bystander who just caught a glimpse of Superman.
The words tumble forth in self-exalting, run-on sentences, most of them
laced with profanity, all of them in the sunny, chummy accent of his native
Australia.
“I’m the world’s most famous photographer, most sought-after photographer
, most awarded photographer,” he said one recent afternoon, sipping a can
of Red Bull in a conference room at Peter Lik USA, a 100,000-square-foot
headquarters in Las Vegas devoted solely to the production and sale of Peter
Lik photography. “So I said” — and what Mr. Lik said next is an
unprintable version of “the heck with it,” and then — “I want to make
something special, special, special, special.”
That something special was a photograph called “Phantom,” an image of an
eerily human-shaped swirl of dust in Antelope Canyon in Arizona. In December
, his company announced in a news release that an anonymous collector had
spent $6.5 million for “Phantom.” That crushed the previous record, held
by Andreas Gursky, whose “Rhein II” fetched $4.3 million at an auction in
2011, and Cindy Sherman, whose “Untitled #96” brought $3.9 million at
another auction the same year.
Photo
Mr. Lik says “Phantom” is the most expensive photograph ever sold, at $6.5
million, to an anonymous buyer. Credit Peter Lik
But Mr. Gursky and Ms. Sherman are titans, with solo shows in pre-eminent
museums.
Who is Peter Lik?
It irks him a little that you have to ask. Because by one measure — money
— Mr. Lik may well be the most successful fine-art photographer who ever
lived. He has sold $440 million worth of prints, according to his chief
financial officer, in 15 galleries in the United States that he owns and
that sell his work. The images are mostly panoramic shots of trees, sky,
lakes, deserts and blue water in supersaturated colors. Generally speaking,
his buyers are not people who acquire the art of Andreas Gursky and Cindy
Sherman.
Which is just one reason that Mr. Lik considers himself an artist working
outside a system established by elitist tastemakers. And while he says he
doesn’t mind being snubbed by the establishment, part of him is bothered
that his renown has lagged woefully behind his level of financial success.
So six months ago, he had an idea. Nearly every Peter Lik photograph is
printed in a “limited edition” of 995; the first print sells at about $4,
000, with the price rising as the edition sells out. With his eye fixed on a
record-setting sale, he printed a single copy of “Phantom.” Then he
alerted a handful of his most ardent collectors, one of whom, he said,
agreed to the $6.5 million price. Before the deal was signed, Mr. Lik hired
a public relations firm to make sure that the sale, and the record, were
noticed.
“The P.R. firm dropped those off yesterday,” said Mr. Lik, looking at four
fat ring binders, which an associate had just plopped on a table. They
contain hundreds of stories from around the world about the “Phantom” sale
. Typical was the reaction of Time magazine, which published the headline,
“This is officially the most expensive photo ever.”
Continue reading the main story
It’s hard to know what’s “official” about it. Previous records in
photography were set by competing bidders in public auctions for images that
were familiar and celebrated. This was a private sale for a newly printed
photograph, and scant details were offered. But while the buyer’s hidden
identity inevitably arched some eyebrows, anonymity in such deals is not
unusual. Joshua Roth, the Los Angeles lawyer who represented the buyer,
declined to name his client, though he emphasized that the client exists.
Despite the reported size of the deal, the art world greeted the news mostly
with silence. This could have been because before the sale announcement, no
one had laid eyes on the image. One of the few gallery owners willing to
discuss it was Michael Hoppen, owner of a gallery in London.
“It’s an abomination,” Mr. Hoppen said of “Phantom,” in an article that
ran in England’s The Independent. “Art, whatever the medium, is something
that moves and informs you or changes your opinion. This has nothing to do
with art or creative photography, and the tragedy is that it brings the
whole business down.” He declined an invitation to elaborate.
Here’s another way to look at “Phantom”: as the flagship of an
entrepreneur catering mostly to an overlooked group, namely people with some
disposable income but little or no experience buying fine art. Mr. Lik
opens galleries in areas with lots of tourist traffic, and he embraces the
familiar elements of retail transactions, instead of cloaking them in
mystery, which is standard in the contemporary art realm. There are even
credit-card swipe machines in every Lik gallery, a device rarely seen in any
other fine-art context, where checks are preferred.
A lot of Lik buyers just want an appealing image to hang on their wall. But
others have read about the emergence of painting, photography and sculpture
as glamorous and profitable assets, and Peter Lik USA gives them a slice of
that action. Or so they believe. Like many people who regard contemporary
art as an investment, the slice is often worth much less than they realize.
‘I’m God. Nailed It.’
Mr. Lik, a compact 55-year-old bundle of sinew and kinetic energy, has
turned himself into a one-man fine-art franchise through charisma and single
-minded will. He has no interests outside of his photography and his
business, which includes a sideline in buying and selling luxury houses. (He
recently put a property on 6.5 oceanfront acres in Maui up for sale for $19
.8 million.) Having failed once at marriage, he says he is done with
relationships.
Mr. Lik doesn’t seem to have much interest in art, either, at least art
made by other people. He never studied any photographer, let alone took an
art class, and seems to take some pride in that fact. He professes no
interest in Ansel Adams, perhaps the most famous American landscape
photographer and an obvious touchstone to anyone dragging a big camera into
a national park.
“Just a nice shot of Yosemite,” Mr. Lik said, summing up Adams’s work. “
Right place at the right time.”
Continue reading the main story
He spends three months out of every year shooting around the country. There
are no people in any of the photographs, nor are there any hints of
ambiguity or darkness.
He is happy to explain why. “A) that is not going to make us any money,”
he said. “And B) I don’t want to see that side of life. I just want to see
the beautiful side.”
It takes a while to piece together Mr. Lik’s life story, because the tale
emerges in random shards that must be reassembled. He skipped college and
began working as a salesman, first for a packaging company and later a
greeting card company. Everywhere he went, he brought a camera and
eventually, he parlayed his portfolio into a job shooting for the Queensland
Tourist and Travel Corporation. To bowdlerize his account of the two years
that followed, Mr. Lik worked very hard and had sex with many models.
In 1996, he used his Queensland photographs to start a successful postcard
company, and he later opened four galleries to sell his prints in his native
country. But he always wanted to move to the United States and in 2001, he
sank nearly all his savings into a gallery he opened in San Francisco. It
flopped. On his way back to Australia, however, he stopped for a visit to
Maui. There, he spotted a retail space that he thought was perfect, and by
2003, he had opened a thriving gallery.
Two years later, he was ready to expand and he opened a gallery in the shops
in Caesars Palace in Las Vegas. He flew in the best of his sales team and
ordered them to sell $1 million worth of photographs a month.
“If you’re in Caesars Palace, you’re no joke,” he said. “That was a
huge turning point. I’m in Caesars. I’m God. Nailed it.”
In the years to come, he would open three more galleries in Las Vegas and 11
more in other cities, including in Manhattan. He has now sold more than 100
,000 photographs, all of them custom-printed, mounted and framed, then boxed
up at his headquarters in Las Vegas. It’s a fine-art factory a few miles
from the Strip. Last year, the company sold $1.6 million worth of
photographs every week.
“From the time an order hits the production department to the time it
reaches the shipping department, it’s about eight days,” said Joseph
Boswell, director of branding and marketing. “That’s streamlined down from
months.”
‘Romancing’ the Art
In the last decade, the art market has gone from quiet niche to noisy
spectacle. A few numbers tell the story. In 2003, Sotheby’s and Christie’s
sold a combined total of $136.5 million worth of contemporary art in their
fall evening sales. In 2014, Christie’s alone sold more than six times that
figure in its fall sale — $853 million of Andy Warhol, Cy Twombly, Francis
Bacon and others. And there were some murmurs of disappointment that the
auction didn’t become the first to break the $1 billion mark.
This backdrop has been essential to the success of Peter Lik. He stands
apart from the mainstream art market, but he has benefited from the hype
that surrounds it. He has also replicated many of its sales tropes, then
exploited them to the nth degree.
Continue reading the main story
Plenty of coveted fine-art photographers, for instance, print six, seven or
even 10 copies of an image and charge more as they sell out. Mr. Lik vastly
expands that concept, selling 950 limited editions and 45 artist’s proofs
of every photograph. (All the images are identical, but artist’s proofs are
deemed more prestigious and start at $10,000.) Every time a limited edition
sells another 10 percent, the price ticks up, in increments that grow. When
an edition reaches 40 percent sold, for instance, the price rises by $500.
At 90 percent sold, the price rises by $1,300.
When 95 percent of an image has sold it becomes “Premium Peter Lik” and
the price jumps to $17,500. At 98 percent, it’s “Second Level Premium
Peter Lik” and leaps to $35,000. And when the image gets down to its last
handful, the prices can go as high as $200,000 or more. When all copies of a
photograph are sold, it can gross the company more than $7 million.
The message is that the sooner you buy, the less you will pay. So buy now.
“If we had them at $3,950 the whole time, where is the sense of urgency?”
says Rafee Fatoohi, the company’s director of sales. “People would say, ‘
I’ll come back and buy it in a year.’ ”
Traditional contemporary galleries have their own bag of sales tricks, but
they are plied with a poker face. These places want to come across more like
a museum than a business, a venue for reverence instead of commerce. So
employees are present, but none will ask if you need help. Everything has a
price, but you need to screw up your courage to request it.
Mr. Lik dispenses with these subtleties. “Art consultants,” as they are
called, roam the floors of his galleries and have a number of company-
approved icebreakers to start a dialogue about the photographs. (Sample: “
They’re amazing, aren’t they?”) They will happily discuss the color of
your sofa to find a matching frame, an unimaginable topic in other galleries
. Instead of white walls and silence, Peter Lik galleries have dark charcoal
gray walls and piped-in vintage rock, circa early Tom Petty. “Presentation
is key, the vibe is key,” Mr. Lik said. “I wanted people comfortable when
they went in there. Just relaxed.”
Behind this chilled-out facade, there is a rigorous catechism, which every
Peter Lik art consultant learns during a four-day training course. There are
eight steps to each sale, a handbook explains, starting with “Greet and
Engage” and ending with the “Post-Sale Button Up.”
One recent afternoon, at the Peter Lik Gallery in the Venetian hotel and
casino, Ali Baigi was in the middle of Step No. 4, “Presentation,” which
involves “romancing the art,” as the company calls it. Mr. Baigi was
talking to a pair of men from Texas, in town for a sporting goods convention.
“This one is called ‘Celestial Dreams,’ ” said Mr. Baigi, as the three
gaped at a vivid purple and orange shot of a tree. “Many celebrities have
it, we respect their privacy, don’t mention names. Four months old, already
went to 80 percent sold, but it’s still in good category. Eight or nine
thousand dollars.”
Continue reading the main story
“I’m more of a beach guy,” said Jarrod VanBrocklin, manager of a sporting
goods store in Abilene, “but this is pretty damn cool.”
“You keep it, 20 years from now, you surprise your son with wedding gift,”
Mr. Baigi said. “Meantime, your money always there, you’re looking at it.”
During a lull, Mr. VanBrocklin told his friend about a photograph he saw at
a Lik gallery years ago.
“I think it was taken in Key West,” he said. “It was just a pier and
white sand. I should have bought that. Now, I’ve seen it selling for stupid
money.”
Mr. VanBrocklin ultimately left empty-handed, but with a promise to return
with his wife. He is a fairly typical Peter Lik buyer, someone who hasn’t
spent much on art in the past and didn’t start the day planning to spend $4
,000 on a photograph.
Most Lik sales are a kind of high-end impulse buy. The setting is designed
to valorize the jaunty, tripod-toting bloke scouring the nation in search of
beauty. A plaque on the wall tallies up a list of honors, including the
fellowship he received from the British Institute of Professional
Photographers and his master photographer award from the Professional
Photographers of America. Another plaque boasts about the “world record”
set by “Phantom.” Still another describes him in the shorthand of an
online dating profile:
“Best loved food: Thai & Indian or anything that is bloody hot!”
Seeking Resale Value
There are plenty of repeat clients who don’t need this spiel because they’
ve already heard it. Mr. Fatoohi said a handful of collectors had spent
north of $1 million, and more have spent in excess of $100,000.
One regular buyer is Craig Bernfield, a real estate developer in Chicago. He
politely demurred when asked to tally up his outlays over the years, but he
says he has purchased 50 Liks, all of them on the walls of his homes, his
office or the homes of his children. He and his wife, Donna, began their
collection during a visit to Hawaii in 2003, when the couple happened across
the gallery in Maui.
“We were not art collectors,” he said in a phone interview, “but we had
this wonderful trip with our kids, and at the time the gallery featured some
photography that Peter had done on the island, shots of places that we’d
been. So we bought a handful of photographs that we were in love with — the
serenity and beauty of places that he captured.”
Early on, Mr. Bernfield and his wife didn’t consider whether they were
making a good investment — specifically whether the art would sell well on
the secondary market, a realm dominated by auction houses. But as the
Bernfields’ inventory grew, it was time for what Mr. Bernfield called a “
gut check” about new acquisitions. “We had to ask, hey, is this worth it?
” he said. The businessman in him wouldn’t mind what they call in the real
estate world “comparables,” a sales history of similar properties. He
just has never found any.
“If you find some comparables,” he said, “I’d be interested in seeing
them.”
Continue reading the main story
Arguably, the person best versed in Peter Lik comparables is David Hulme, a
fine-art valuer based in Australia for a company called Auctionata. For
years, he has been getting calls from Lik owners around the world, and he
finds the calls depressing.
“People tell me all the time, ‘I’ve been in touch with the gallery, and
they say my photograph is now selling for $150,000 a copy,’ ” he says. “
So they want to know what they can sell theirs for.”
A tiny fraction of that sum is the answer. A subscription service called
Artnet — which bills itself as the most comprehensive database of its kind
— captures the resale value of Lik photographs by cataloging auction
results, and the most anyone has ever paid for one his photographs is $15,
860, for a copy of an image called “Ghost,” in 2008. (It’s a color
version of “Phantom.”) After that, it’s a long slide down, to $3,000 for
a copy of “Eternal Beauty (Antelope County, Arizona)” in 2014. Fifteen
images have sold for between $1,000 and $2,500, and four have sold for
between $400 and $1,000. Another handful failed to sell. And that’s it.
Mr. Hulme usually directs Lik owners to ArtBrokerage.com, a site where they
can post images of their art along with an asking price. Currently, there
are more than 770 Liks for sale on ArtBrokerage.com, the most of any artist
on the site. As of Friday, that included 27 copies of one image, “Tree of
Hope,” with prices that ranged from $5,000 to $29,000.
Or you can buy a copy at the gallery, where it has achieved Second Level
Peter Lik Premium status, for $35,000.
It’s a truism that the price of a commodity doesn’t always correlate to
its value. This is especially so in the art market, where experts say a
stunningly small percent of what is sold will ever be worth more than it was
on the day it was acquired. Behind every headline of a superselling object
at a high-profile auction, there are a few thousand items that will never
budge.
“Reading about art investment success is like reading about the one-in-40
drill holes that find oil,” writes Don Thompson in “The Super Model and
the Brillo Box: Back Stories and Peculiar Economics From the World of
Contemporary Art.” “You never read about the four out of five contemporary
works that Christie’s or Sotheby’s, or even Phillips or Bonhams, reject
for their evening auctions because the artist is no longer in fashion.”
Generally, photographers who perform well at auctions have appeared in
museums, won praise from critics and have printed a very small number of a
given image. The sole museum Peter Lik mentions on plaques in his galleries
is the Smithsonian, but he’s been exhibited only in its National Museum of
Natural History in group shows of nature photography. And over the years, he
has effectively flooded his own market.
So anyone buying his work assuming that it will appreciate is all but
certainly in for an unhappy surprise. But given the sheer volume of Liks on
the market, his scarcity in museums and the scorn he attracts from gallery
owners, the question is: Why do so many people call David Hulme expecting
good news?
Continue reading the main storyContinue reading the main storyContinue
reading the main story
One answer is that the vast majority of Mr. Lik’s buyers are not well
versed in the secondary art market, and they believe that because prices go
up inside the galleries, they go up outside them, too. This confusion over
price, which is dictated by the company, and value, which is determined by
the broader market, is sometimes encouraged by the sales team, according to
two former executives at Peter Lik USA, who declined to be identified for
fear of being sued by the company. The eight-step presentation, the
elaborate price tiers, the long list of professional awards, the “romancing
” of the art — all have the effect of suggesting to potential customers
that they are making an investment, not spending money. “The salesman would
say, ‘Peter Lik is the most awarded landscape artist in history,’ ” said
one former executive. “This photograph started at $4,000 and it sold out
at $200,000. Now, you tell me how good an investment it is.”
Mr. VanBrocklin, the sporting goods manager, seemed to have bought this
message when he said to his friend at the Venetian, “This is one of those
deals where you don’t lose money.” That widespread impression has led Mr.
Hulme to question whether Lik galleries are “misleading” customers.
Mr. Fatoohi, the Lik executive, said that sales reps are instructed during
those four-day training courses to emphasize the beauty of Mr. Lik’s work,
and anyone in the galleries who makes rosy investment claims risks being
fired. “We tell clients who ask about future values, ‘Buy because you love
it,’ ” Mr. Fatoohi said. “There are no guarantees.”
The secondary art market was the one subject that Mr. Lik was reluctant to
discuss. Presented with the Artnet results and pressed for a comment, he
said of his work, “It’s like a Mercedes-Benz. You drive it off the lot, it
loses half its value.”
Mr. Bernfield, the collector with 50 Liks, sounds as if he’d be content
with his purchases no matter what. He loves the images. That said, he also
believes that his photographs are a good investment, a conclusion that stems
largely from the delighted reactions of friends. But he has other evidence,
and not surprisingly, all of it is lifted directly from the gallery: the
bustle of customers, the list of accolades, the pricing tiers.
And Peter Lik just sold an image for a record-breaking $6.5 million, didn’t
he? | i********r
发帖数: 12113 | 2 那照片狠狠很一般啊
.
native
photographer
【在 b******g 的大作中提到】
: 看了这篇文章，还能将进博物馆、卖高价与艺术价值划等号么？
: ______________________________________________
: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/22/business/peter-liks-recipe-fo
: Peter Lik is in awe of himself. When he describes his career as a fine-art
: photographer, he speaks with the satisfaction of a guy who has performed
: miracles, at the pace of a bystander who just caught a glimpse of Superman.
: The words tumble forth in self-exalting, run-on sentences, most of them
: laced with profanity, all of them in the sunny, chummy accent of his native
: Australia.
: “I’m the world’s most famous photographer, most sought-after photographer
| r*******i
发帖数: 1640 | | r**********g
发帖数: 330 | 4 ‘I’m God. Nailed It.’
【在 r*******i 的大作中提到】
: 求摘要= =
| l**********g
发帖数: 503 | 5 ...
Mr. Lik worked very hard and had sex with many models.
...
【在 r*******i 的大作中提到】
: 求摘要= =
| a*f
发帖数: 5682 | 6 这个人没有一幅作品被艺术博物馆收藏，他的作品也从来没有在两大艺术拍卖行拍卖过
。他在自己的开的画廊卖画，就算卖个五亿美元艺术界也没人会Care。
.
native
photographer
【在 b******g 的大作中提到】
: 看了这篇文章，还能将进博物馆、卖高价与艺术价值划等号么？
: ______________________________________________
: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/22/business/peter-liks-recipe-fo
: Peter Lik is in awe of himself. When he describes his career as a fine-art
: photographer, he speaks with the satisfaction of a guy who has performed
: miracles, at the pace of a bystander who just caught a glimpse of Superman.
: The words tumble forth in self-exalting, run-on sentences, most of them
: laced with profanity, all of them in the sunny, chummy accent of his native
: Australia.
: “I’m the world’s most famous photographer, most sought-after photographer
| b******g
发帖数: 3616 | 7 lol，他是一个极端的例子。隔壁不是经常动不动搬出风光片卖不出高价所以没什么艺
术价值么？这不响亮地打了这种论调一记耳光。你看，人风光界被大师们纷纷鄙视的人
的作品都卖了650万美金不是？这部说明了(1)风光片不是不能卖出高价；(2)卖了高价
的照片也不代表有相应大的艺术价值。
这650万的交易从一个侧面说明了当代很多拍卖、博物馆展出很多是牵涉到了巨大的经
济利益、
广告利益等在其中的，而不全和艺术价值等价。看待问题要全面客观，不能说进博物馆
、卖高价对艺术价值的评判没有参考性。但对此过分趋之若鹜，搞得好像唯一的标准，
那就矫枉过正,非常可笑了。这个问题也可以反过来理解，没有在维也纳歌剧院进行过
演唱会的歌手未必就不是优秀的高手，没有拿过奥斯卡的电影也未必就不是好电影，也
不见得就低人一等了。所以以此两条依据来否定流派、作品则是更为荒诞了。
【在 a*f 的大作中提到】
: 这个人没有一幅作品被艺术博物馆收藏，他的作品也从来没有在两大艺术拍卖行拍卖过
: 。他在自己的开的画廊卖画，就算卖个五亿美元艺术界也没人会Care。
:
: .
: native
: photographer
| b*****1
发帖数: 342 | 8 He never studied any photographer, let alone took an
art class | b******g
发帖数: 3616 | 9 槽点太多。
He professes no
interest in Ansel Adams, perhaps the most famous American landscape
photographer and an obvious touchstone to anyone dragging a big camera into
a national park.
“Just a nice shot of Yosemite,” Mr. Lik said, summing up Adams’s work. “
Right place at the right time.”
还有他的拍卖方法。简而言之就是一个靠商业炒作、包装而成名的jerk。The Weather
Channel请这样的人来节目也是醉了。拍卖这种东西，说白了就是一个愿打一个愿挨。
最终成交价多少，完全取决于挨打的那人有多舍得。这种数字往往和作品的水平没有必
然联系。
【在 b*****1 的大作中提到】
: He never studied any photographer, let alone took an
: art class
| r********r
发帖数: 677 | 10 艺术这东西本来就是主观性很强的，说老实的我也看不出Ansel Adams有多NB, 版上有
些大牛的作品我看上去也没觉得比他差多少。 蒙娜丽莎在我眼中也没啥特别，随便一
副国画都比那好看。 | | | d******n
发帖数: 3014 | 11 仁者见仁智者见智，
价值还有只有拿钱交易的时候才能体现出来。
【在 r********r 的大作中提到】
: 艺术这东西本来就是主观性很强的，说老实的我也看不出Ansel Adams有多NB, 版上有
: 些大牛的作品我看上去也没觉得比他差多少。 蒙娜丽莎在我眼中也没啥特别，随便一
: 副国画都比那好看。
| r********r
发帖数: 677 | 12 也许所有作品都量产然后沃尔玛卖$5一幅，最后看总销售量的话，能体现出一些。
打个比方吧，如果我是盖茨，你随便拿幅作品义卖做慈善，我一千万刀买不成问题，反
正平时捐掉不也一样么。
【在 d******n 的大作中提到】
: 仁者见仁智者见智，
: 价值还有只有拿钱交易的时候才能体现出来。
| b******g
发帖数: 3616 | 13 如果单纯论照片的“质量”，Adams的照片放到今天的确只能算so so。technology在进
步，如今要获得比当时大得多的动态范围、更好的细节画质是很容易的事情。哪怕仅仅
从黑白照片而论，数码的后期dodge/burn也远比胶片时代暗房后期简单、精确得多。但
我觉得Adams的贡献和价值更多得他在那个时代的开拓与创新，以及给后人留下的影响
。当时的国家公园可不是现在的国家公园那样，很多拍摄点对于当时的人来说都是需要
花费莫大的精力和勇气去探索挖掘，而Adams通过他的审美为后人带来了许多经典的构
图，以至于时至今日仍然被很多人仿效。
我个人觉得艺术价值和卖了多少钱、进了什么样的博物馆没有必然联系。不是说完全没
有联系，但不能以此作为主要甚至唯一的标准。不同博物馆会对题材流派等有自己的偏
好和限制，而卖了多少钱完全取决于收藏者的心态和能力。这就好比一个领域的科学价
值、学术价值不能简单地从该领域多少篇nature/science来得出。
但如果说艺术价值是完全主观的东西那又有点偏向另一个极端。它当然有主观性，但我
个人浅显的理解认为，照片的感染力固然是对观者因人而异的，但艺术价值的另一个重
要体现在于创新性以及对领域的影响力。
【在 r********r 的大作中提到】
: 艺术这东西本来就是主观性很强的，说老实的我也看不出Ansel Adams有多NB, 版上有
: 些大牛的作品我看上去也没觉得比他差多少。 蒙娜丽莎在我眼中也没啥特别，随便一
: 副国画都比那好看。
| g*****x
发帖数: 3283 | 14 所以你是想证明：风光片有艺术价值？
不过从你的两个结论：
(1)风光片不是不能卖出高价；
(2)卖了高价的照片也不代表有相应大的艺术价值。
完全没法推出“风光片有艺术价值”这一点。相反如果只靠这个例子，我觉得反而是“
风光片没有艺术价值”的一个典型例子。
【在 b******g 的大作中提到】
: lol，他是一个极端的例子。隔壁不是经常动不动搬出风光片卖不出高价所以没什么艺
: 术价值么？这不响亮地打了这种论调一记耳光。你看，人风光界被大师们纷纷鄙视的人
: 的作品都卖了650万美金不是？这部说明了(1)风光片不是不能卖出高价；(2)卖了高价
: 的照片也不代表有相应大的艺术价值。
: 这650万的交易从一个侧面说明了当代很多拍卖、博物馆展出很多是牵涉到了巨大的经
: 济利益、
: 广告利益等在其中的，而不全和艺术价值等价。看待问题要全面客观，不能说进博物馆
: 、卖高价对艺术价值的评判没有参考性。但对此过分趋之若鹜，搞得好像唯一的标准，
: 那就矫枉过正,非常可笑了。这个问题也可以反过来理解，没有在维也纳歌剧院进行过
: 演唱会的歌手未必就不是优秀的高手，没有拿过奥斯卡的电影也未必就不是好电影，也
| g*****x
发帖数: 3283 | 15 所以您老人家给个比较客观的评价艺术价值的指标？还是说您觉得只要您自己觉得有价
值，就算大家都不喜欢也有价值；或者您说没价值就没价值，就算卖几百万也没价值？
我同意你说的他的成就是“时代的开拓与创新”，但是这和艺术价值一毛钱关系都没有。
【在 b******g 的大作中提到】
: 如果单纯论照片的“质量”，Adams的照片放到今天的确只能算so so。technology在进
: 步，如今要获得比当时大得多的动态范围、更好的细节画质是很容易的事情。哪怕仅仅
: 从黑白照片而论，数码的后期dodge/burn也远比胶片时代暗房后期简单、精确得多。但
: 我觉得Adams的贡献和价值更多得他在那个时代的开拓与创新，以及给后人留下的影响
: 。当时的国家公园可不是现在的国家公园那样，很多拍摄点对于当时的人来说都是需要
: 花费莫大的精力和勇气去探索挖掘，而Adams通过他的审美为后人带来了许多经典的构
: 图，以至于时至今日仍然被很多人仿效。
: 我个人觉得艺术价值和卖了多少钱、进了什么样的博物馆没有必然联系。不是说完全没
: 有联系，但不能以此作为主要甚至唯一的标准。不同博物馆会对题材流派等有自己的偏
: 好和限制，而卖了多少钱完全取决于收藏者的心态和能力。这就好比一个领域的科学价
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