w**********2
发帖数: 332 | 1 我对asperger的了解主要来源于电视剧parenthood，据说是很写实的。我很同情那个角
色的父母但不是角色本人。我在现实生活中只认识不是asperger的自闭娃，小孩和父母
我都同情。我觉得asperger的暴力倾向其实很明显的，但因为要政治正确没有人敢这么
明说。
http://www.webmd.com/brain/autism/news/20121218/aspergers-viole
Asperger's and Violence: Experts Weigh In
By Brenda Goodman, MA
WebMD Health News
Dec. 19, 2012 -- Reports that Newtown shooter Adam Lanza had Asperger’s
syndrome, a highly functioning form of autism, have led some to wonder
whether that diagnosis could have played a role in the mass shooting, which
killed 20 children and six adults at a Connecticut elementary school last
week.
As with many cases such as this, the answer is complex. While experts are
clear that Asperger's doesn’t make a person more likely to commit a violent
crime, some say it may affect the way a crime is carried out.
Advocates for people with autism are more direct.
“Autism did not cause this crime,” says Peter Bell, MBA, executive vice
president for programs and services at the nonprofit group Autism Speaks.
Bell, who also has a son with autism, says it’s important to understand
that the condition is a developmental disorder that arises early in life.
Children and adults with autism spectrum disorders struggle to communicate
with others. They may feel socially isolated and have trouble feeling like
part of a group. They may also have repetitive or restrictive behaviors,
like rocking or shaking their hands.
“There’s absolutely nothing in that definition that talks about violence
or committing aggressive acts,” Bell says.
Asperger’s and Violence
Indeed, psychologists and psychiatrists agree that people with autism or
Asperger’s are not more likely to commit violent crimes than members of the
general population, but they say in very rare cases, it can happen.
In those isolated instances, forensic psychiatrists tell WebMD, a diagnosis
of Asperger’s or autism may help explain some aspects of seemingly
unfathomable acts.
“I think it does matter. I think that’s probably part of making sense of
this horrible thing that happened. I think that’s part of the equation,”
says Marc Hillbrand, PhD, a clinical psychologist at Yale University in New
Haven, Conn.
Hillbrand has studied the psychology of mass shootings, but he had no direct
knowledge of Adam Lanza’s medical history.
“What’s so unusual about this individual, if indeed he has Asperger’s, is
the use of weapons. There are a few cases of people with high-functioning
autism who have committed violent crimes using weapons, but it’s a very
small number of people,” he says.
Marianne Kristiansson, PhD, professor of forensic psychiatry at Karolinska
Institute in Stockholm, Sweden, has published one of the few studies looking
at the characteristics of a small number of violent offenders who also had
autism.
She said when she heard about the Connecticut shooting, her first thought
was that the shooter might have had Asperger’s.
“That was just my diagnosis,” Kristiansson says. “This offender behavior
that he has presented is quite typical of a subject with ... autistic traits
.”
As head of the national board of forensic medicine in Sweden, it’s
Kristiansson’s job to try to figure out why people sometimes act in violent
ways.
She says most people who commit crimes do it for some kind of concrete
reward -- money, for instance, or sex, or drugs. That’s not the case in
people with autism spectrum disorders.
“In these cases, it’s very, very different. The motive for the crime is
different. The motive of the crime is to communicate that you yourself are
very offended. Other people have treated you in a very bad way and you want
revenge. You want to communicate that on a very global level to lots of
people,” she says.
“This behavior is completely impossible to understand because it’s so
horrible. A psychopath would never commit such a crime,” she says “because
a psychopath commits crimes that he receives some benefit from, and he
would not commit suicide after a crime.”
“In Sweden we have had such offenders who really wanted to communicate to
other authorities that they are very offended and very frustrated, but due
to their autistic traits, they didn’t have the ability to communicate that
verbally, so instead they take some kind of non-verbal communication,” she
says, referring to the case of Peter Mangs, a 40-year-old with a diagnosis
of Asperger’s who was charged with shooting more than a dozen people, most
of them immigrants, from 2009 to 2010.
“Asperger’s subjects may have special interests. He had a special interest
in shooting and guns and so on. So he had a license for lots of guns,” she
says, referring to Mangs.
When people with Asperger’s become fixated on weapons, it can lead to
violence, she says.
“It could be fires or fire-setting. We have even seen an interest in
explosives that had very problematic effects and offending behavior,”
Kristiansson says.
When a Child With Autism Is Violent
Amy Lutz doesn’t buy the idea that people with autism may turn to violence
as a way to communicate. Lutz is the president of the EASI Foundation, which
stands for Ending Aggression and Self-Injury in the Developmentally
Disabled, a new nonprofit she started to help parents with violent children.
Lutz has a 13-year-old son with autism who was once so aggressive that he
was admitted to a residential treatment program for a year so doctors could
stabilize his rages.
“I didn’t want to become that mom who was beaten to death by her son,”
she says, referring to the case of Trudy Steuernagel, who was killed by her
teenage autistic son.
Lutz says that in her experience, her son’s rages were unpredictable. She
says they happened in reaction to something in his environment or to some
chemical imbalance in his brain. They were never predatory, as the shooting
in Connecticut seemed to be.
“There was no intention behind the aggression,” Lutz says. “He would go
off a cliff and there was no coming back until the storm had passed.”
But the storms were terrible. When her son was 9, they had him committed to
the Kennedy Krieger Institute in Baltimore for a year, where he was given a
diagnosis of bipolar disorder in addition to his autism.
A 2008 review found that 84% of violent offenders with autism also had co-
existing psychiatric disorders at the time they committed the crime.
Lutz says that in her son’s case, electroshock therapy to control the
biopolar disorder has helped.
“He’s still very autistic, but the rage is gone,” she says. | t*******r
发帖数: 22634 | 2 要让有暴力倾向的人能与社会共存，我觉得要让人穿上鞋子，不要赤脚，很重要。
一般人的鞋子，通常是家庭/社交/工作。但是 asperger 那种容易钻牛角尖的，
可能建立科学的或者艺术的兴趣更重要，让人在那里钻牛角尖，舍不得放弃。
好像希特勒就是喜欢画画，但是他画的不好还是与主流格格不入，被艺术学院
屡次拒在门外。。。其实花儿街这么烧钱，还不如多养几个 scientist/artist
烧钱。。。这个其实还跟 VC 差不多，赔了一百个 scientist，有一个出成果就
赚饱了。。。 | G***o
发帖数: 5158 | 3 斯皮尔伯格也是被南加大拒了好几次，后来只好上了个差点的学校。
【在 t*******r 的大作中提到】
: 要让有暴力倾向的人能与社会共存，我觉得要让人穿上鞋子，不要赤脚，很重要。
: 一般人的鞋子，通常是家庭/社交/工作。但是 asperger 那种容易钻牛角尖的，
: 可能建立科学的或者艺术的兴趣更重要，让人在那里钻牛角尖，舍不得放弃。
: 好像希特勒就是喜欢画画，但是他画的不好还是与主流格格不入，被艺术学院
: 屡次拒在门外。。。其实花儿街这么烧钱，还不如多养几个 scientist/artist
: 烧钱。。。这个其实还跟 VC 差不多，赔了一百个 scientist，有一个出成果就
: 赚饱了。。。
| w**********2
发帖数: 332 | 4 Asperger的症状之一就是对某个东西钻牛角尖，家长也都鼓励了，但并不解决问题。
Asperger最大的问题是缺乏empathy。大多数人都有empathy，就是己所不欲勿施于人。
说句题外的话，原来有信教的老美问我没有宗教信仰的人是如何从道德上约束自己的，
我一时答不上来，但我知道很多事我不会去做哪怕法律上是不制裁的，后来我去无神论
网站上查一下标准回答，发现是这个empathy。如果没有empathy，也就不会有同情心。
你说没有同情心的人是不是比有同情心的人更容易伤害他人？
【在 t*******r 的大作中提到】
: 要让有暴力倾向的人能与社会共存，我觉得要让人穿上鞋子，不要赤脚，很重要。
: 一般人的鞋子，通常是家庭/社交/工作。但是 asperger 那种容易钻牛角尖的，
: 可能建立科学的或者艺术的兴趣更重要，让人在那里钻牛角尖，舍不得放弃。
: 好像希特勒就是喜欢画画，但是他画的不好还是与主流格格不入，被艺术学院
: 屡次拒在门外。。。其实花儿街这么烧钱，还不如多养几个 scientist/artist
: 烧钱。。。这个其实还跟 VC 差不多，赔了一百个 scientist，有一个出成果就
: 赚饱了。。。
| l*******g
发帖数: 271 | 5 要是真的关注和担忧这些人群，请sign petition:
http://www.change.org/petitions/us-federal-government-increase-
【在 w**********2 的大作中提到】
: Asperger的症状之一就是对某个东西钻牛角尖，家长也都鼓励了，但并不解决问题。
: Asperger最大的问题是缺乏empathy。大多数人都有empathy，就是己所不欲勿施于人。
: 说句题外的话，原来有信教的老美问我没有宗教信仰的人是如何从道德上约束自己的，
: 我一时答不上来，但我知道很多事我不会去做哪怕法律上是不制裁的，后来我去无神论
: 网站上查一下标准回答，发现是这个empathy。如果没有empathy，也就不会有同情心。
: 你说没有同情心的人是不是比有同情心的人更容易伤害他人？
| w**********2
发帖数: 332 | 6 BTW, I don't think Hitler has asperger, -he had a lot of charisma so that he
had a lot of followers. A person with asperger is socially awkward and won
't be able to accomplish that. | t*******r
发帖数: 22634 | 7 你这个说法对普通人群成立，但是高于平均智商的人群有所商榷。
最简单的例子，很多名将（General）并不是没有同情心的人，
但他们很多时候的 loyalty 高于 empathy，这使得他们能够尽责。
另外，没有宗教信仰并不等于没有 belief。我个人认为，对于
高于平均智商的人群，philosophy 和 belief 才是最高层的约束，
因为那两个是 super-function，empathy 在大脑发育的过程中
逐步降级为可以一定程度被 regulate 的 sub-function 了。
所谓“德智体美劳”，德育排最前面，就是这个道理。（当然这个
“德”是指大方向的品德，而不是鸡毛蒜皮的东西）。不是歧视，
说实话，大脑综合智力差点的，“德”稍微差点，问题还不太大
。。。
所以俺觉得，娃小时候多看点 biography，能够帮助正确理解
现实世界，并且帮助建立 philosophy / belief / value-system。
太多 fiction 容易陷入从 fantasy 角度看真实世界 。。。
【在 w**********2 的大作中提到】
: Asperger的症状之一就是对某个东西钻牛角尖，家长也都鼓励了，但并不解决问题。
: Asperger最大的问题是缺乏empathy。大多数人都有empathy，就是己所不欲勿施于人。
: 说句题外的话，原来有信教的老美问我没有宗教信仰的人是如何从道德上约束自己的，
: 我一时答不上来，但我知道很多事我不会去做哪怕法律上是不制裁的，后来我去无神论
: 网站上查一下标准回答，发现是这个empathy。如果没有empathy，也就不会有同情心。
: 你说没有同情心的人是不是比有同情心的人更容易伤害他人？
| w**********2
发帖数: 332 | 8 I think we are making two different kinds of comparison.
I am comparing ppl with asperger to ppl without asperger or other forms of
autism. You are comparing ppl with high IQ to ppl with average IQ.
In my comparison, the key difference is whether the person is capable of
empathizing with others or not.
In your comparison, the key difference is the IQ score.
There are people with high IQ and is capable of empathizing with others.
There are also average IQ ppl lack of empathy.
【在 t*******r 的大作中提到】
: 你这个说法对普通人群成立，但是高于平均智商的人群有所商榷。
: 最简单的例子，很多名将（General）并不是没有同情心的人，
: 但他们很多时候的 loyalty 高于 empathy，这使得他们能够尽责。
: 另外，没有宗教信仰并不等于没有 belief。我个人认为，对于
: 高于平均智商的人群，philosophy 和 belief 才是最高层的约束，
: 因为那两个是 super-function，empathy 在大脑发育的过程中
: 逐步降级为可以一定程度被 regulate 的 sub-function 了。
: 所谓“德智体美劳”，德育排最前面，就是这个道理。（当然这个
: “德”是指大方向的品德，而不是鸡毛蒜皮的东西）。不是歧视，
: 说实话，大脑综合智力差点的，“德”稍微差点，问题还不太大
| m*********7
发帖数: 5207 | 9 1. 如果楼主“在现实生活中只认识不是asperger的自闭娃”，那么你“觉得asperger
的暴力倾向其实很明显”的结论是从哪里来的呢？是来源于parenthood里面的一个角色
吗？
2。你引用的这篇文章很长，貌似发表意见的专家比较多，能不能总结一下大多数专家
对“Asperger是否比非Asperger更容易暴力犯罪”这个问题是什么看法。你同意他们的
看法吗？
谢谢！
【在 w**********2 的大作中提到】
: 我对asperger的了解主要来源于电视剧parenthood，据说是很写实的。我很同情那个角
: 色的父母但不是角色本人。我在现实生活中只认识不是asperger的自闭娃，小孩和父母
: 我都同情。我觉得asperger的暴力倾向其实很明显的，但因为要政治正确没有人敢这么
: 明说。
: http://www.webmd.com/brain/autism/news/20121218/aspergers-viole
: Asperger's and Violence: Experts Weigh In
: By Brenda Goodman, MA
: WebMD Health News
: Dec. 19, 2012 -- Reports that Newtown shooter Adam Lanza had Asperger’s
: syndrome, a highly functioning form of autism, have led some to wonder
|
|
