p**********t
发帖数: 2636 | 1 I was leading the second pitch of Good Tang (3-pitch 5.7 trad) at the Lower
Small Wall as my warm-up, when a hand hold broke and I fell about 30 ft
upside-down, hitting my head and shoulder on the rock. I was conscious but I
couldn’t stop screaming for the first half minute or so. I must have hit
something sharp since my helmet was cut through and blood was dripping out
of my hair. Matt lowered me to the ground. I sat on the ground for about
half an hour before my head stopped bleeding. My left shoulder was in great
pain, my spine felt weird, and I had cuts all over my body. Luckily the car
was only a 10-min walk away. I was rushed to the emergency room in
Winchester, KY.
I was taken in after a short 20-minute wait. The nurse washed my wound with
distilled water, and the doctor put four staples to secure the 1-inch cut. I
was given a CT scan for my head, neck and organs, followed by a normal X-
ray for my shoulder. Luckily, nothing was broken, except for many skin cuts
and bruises all over my body.
Lessons:
1. Be very careful with moderate grades. Easy routes in the Red River Gorge,
as well as in many other climbing areas are typically highly featured.
These features make the climb easy and fun, but falls can often be fatal. I
was extremely lucky that the pitch I was leading started with a decent size
roof to pull through followed by overhangs, which is a rare combination
given its moderate rating (5.7). A few month ago a women decked to death in
Red Rocks on Solar Slab (5.6) in very similar situation. Unfortunately
there was no overhang to save her life. I was also extremely lucky that the
sharp rock that cut through my helmet cut right at the edge of my helmet.
Were it be slightly lower and cut through my neck from behind, I would
certainly have died.
2. Be aware of rock qualities and test the holds. I did test the holds as I
was going, and I was telling myself “this is sketchy even on a sports climb
”. I put in a solid hex about 10 feet below where I fell, which held the
big fall and saved my life. I was about 5 feet away from the ledge where the
second pitch anchor was. Top later told me that when he led this pitch last
year, he put in a small nut somewhere before he went for the anchor.
However, I looked around but didn’t find any obvious placement, and the
anchor was only a few easy moves away, I decided to keep going for 5 more
feet, and a hold broke. There were some very sharp edges on the rock, and I
was again lucky that the thin rope (9.1 mm) didn’t get cut through. I
should have had a little more fear for the rock quality and tried to put in
one more piece. However, the moderate rating (5.7) somehow put me off guard.
In the past we have been running out over 20 ft in Red Rocks on not that
solid easy sections routinely, and I think this time my luck finally ran out.
3. Climbing is serious and one should never be off-guard. My mind was
definitely off-guard after a winter’s hibernation. I have been doing some
hard sports climbs in Yangshuo during the winter, China, and was pushing my
sports to mid-5.12s. Falling in that situation is both expected and almost
always no harm. However, multi-pitch trad requires a completely different
mindset with grades. A moderate level of fear makes you stay alive. In
addition, we had a beginner in our group who never rappelled before. We
should have just all went to a sport area. However, this weekend was a busy
weekend, and she has followed trad before. For some reason I persuaded
myself that a trad area, and even multi-pitch trad would be ok. It would be
completely different if I pause and evaluated the situation before making
decisions.
Were this be in the backcountry of Wyoming or Tibet, or all the combination
of situation be a little different, or I were older and my bones were more
fragile, I would surely be dead, or a large-scale evacuation would need to
be initiated. I am extremely lucky to be still alive and virtually unhurt.
Thanks Top, Leslie, Matt, Anton and Boris, for taking care of the big mess
that I made. The five or six hours from when I fell to be discharged from
the hospital was the longest half a day in my life.
In short, always be humble and respect the climbs. |
T*********e
发帖数: 39815 | 2 cft
hope you get well soon
one question: nobody helped you to stop bleeding when you were sitting on gr
ound?
Lower
I
great
car
【在 p**********t 的大作中提到】
: I was leading the second pitch of Good Tang (3-pitch 5.7 trad) at the Lower
: Small Wall as my warm-up, when a hand hold broke and I fell about 30 ft
: upside-down, hitting my head and shoulder on the rock. I was conscious but I
: couldn’t stop screaming for the first half minute or so. I must have hit
: something sharp since my helmet was cut through and blood was dripping out
: of my hair. Matt lowered me to the ground. I sat on the ground for about
: half an hour before my head stopped bleeding. My left shoulder was in great
: pain, my spine felt weird, and I had cuts all over my body. Luckily the car
: was only a 10-min walk away. I was rushed to the emergency room in
: Winchester, KY.
|
y*****y
发帖数: 3433 | 3 Glad to know you are OK. Recover soon.
Lower
I
great
car
【在 p**********t 的大作中提到】
: I was leading the second pitch of Good Tang (3-pitch 5.7 trad) at the Lower
: Small Wall as my warm-up, when a hand hold broke and I fell about 30 ft
: upside-down, hitting my head and shoulder on the rock. I was conscious but I
: couldn’t stop screaming for the first half minute or so. I must have hit
: something sharp since my helmet was cut through and blood was dripping out
: of my hair. Matt lowered me to the ground. I sat on the ground for about
: half an hour before my head stopped bleeding. My left shoulder was in great
: pain, my spine felt weird, and I had cuts all over my body. Luckily the car
: was only a 10-min walk away. I was rushed to the emergency room in
: Winchester, KY.
|
q*n
发帖数: 1203 | 4 再hug一下，真庆幸你没事。
跟着读一遍：be humble and respect the climbs.
另外，这个路线爬的人多么？ 一般经典路线石头质量都会好一点。
Lower
I
great
car
【在 p**********t 的大作中提到】
: I was leading the second pitch of Good Tang (3-pitch 5.7 trad) at the Lower
: Small Wall as my warm-up, when a hand hold broke and I fell about 30 ft
: upside-down, hitting my head and shoulder on the rock. I was conscious but I
: couldn’t stop screaming for the first half minute or so. I must have hit
: something sharp since my helmet was cut through and blood was dripping out
: of my hair. Matt lowered me to the ground. I sat on the ground for about
: half an hour before my head stopped bleeding. My left shoulder was in great
: pain, my spine felt weird, and I had cuts all over my body. Luckily the car
: was only a 10-min walk away. I was rushed to the emergency room in
: Winchester, KY.
|
c*******r
发帖数: 13580 | 5 也不一定。我去年在一条popular的sport route上还掰掉一块手点，也是easy grade,
5.8，幸好bolt打的比较密，fall了两个身长左右，啥也没碰到
【在 q*n 的大作中提到】
: 再hug一下，真庆幸你没事。
: 跟着读一遍：be humble and respect the climbs.
: 另外，这个路线爬的人多么？ 一般经典路线石头质量都会好一点。
:
: Lower
: I
: great
: car
|
y*****y
发帖数: 3433 | 6 我一直怀疑Liberty Bell第一个pitch有块石头会掉。
,
【在 c*******r 的大作中提到】
: 也不一定。我去年在一条popular的sport route上还掰掉一块手点，也是easy grade,
: 5.8，幸好bolt打的比较密，fall了两个身长左右，啥也没碰到
|
c*******r
发帖数: 13580 | 7 下次带上锤子把它敲掉好了，省得总担心。
【在 y*****y 的大作中提到】
: 我一直怀疑Liberty Bell第一个pitch有块石头会掉。
:
: ,
|
T********d
发帖数: 621 | 8 You are ok, that's the most important thing
★ Sent from iPhone App: iReader Mitbbs 6.81 - iPhone Lite |
n**********d
发帖数: 197 | 9 pat pat mm... glad to hear you are ok.
was reading "climbing free" by Lynn Hill last night. The first chapter was
talking about a nearly fatal fall she had in France. Similar conclusion was
made by her "be humble and respect the climbs". Guess that's something
needs to be remembered by every climber.
really hope your bruises and cuts recover soon! |
l*******o
发帖数: 669 | 10 Glad that it wasn't any worse than a few cuts/bruises and a visit to ER.
Thanks for sharing the incident with us.
Lower
I
great
car
【在 p**********t 的大作中提到】
: I was leading the second pitch of Good Tang (3-pitch 5.7 trad) at the Lower
: Small Wall as my warm-up, when a hand hold broke and I fell about 30 ft
: upside-down, hitting my head and shoulder on the rock. I was conscious but I
: couldn’t stop screaming for the first half minute or so. I must have hit
: something sharp since my helmet was cut through and blood was dripping out
: of my hair. Matt lowered me to the ground. I sat on the ground for about
: half an hour before my head stopped bleeding. My left shoulder was in great
: pain, my spine felt weird, and I had cuts all over my body. Luckily the car
: was only a 10-min walk away. I was rushed to the emergency room in
: Winchester, KY.
|
|
|
p**********t
发帖数: 2636 | 11 Everyone was running around to get their first aid kit. But all of us knew
that there is no major vessel at where I was hurt, and the bleeding stopped
gradually.
gr
【在 T*********e 的大作中提到】
: cft
: hope you get well soon
: one question: nobody helped you to stop bleeding when you were sitting on gr
: ound?
:
: Lower
: I
: great
: car
|
p**********t
发帖数: 2636 | 12 It was a classic.
【在 q*n 的大作中提到】
: 再hug一下，真庆幸你没事。
: 跟着读一遍：be humble and respect the climbs.
: 另外，这个路线爬的人多么？ 一般经典路线石头质量都会好一点。
:
: Lower
: I
: great
: car
|
k***z
发帖数: 3522 | |
S********t
发帖数: 18987 | |
j*********r
发帖数: 654 | 15 总结得很好，谢谢和大家分享。
攀岩戴头盔的好处体现出来了。
祝早日康复！ |
v***l
发帖数: 2623 | 16 拍拍，摸摸，抱抱，祝早日康复！！！
Lower
I
great
car
【在 p**********t 的大作中提到】
: I was leading the second pitch of Good Tang (3-pitch 5.7 trad) at the Lower
: Small Wall as my warm-up, when a hand hold broke and I fell about 30 ft
: upside-down, hitting my head and shoulder on the rock. I was conscious but I
: couldn’t stop screaming for the first half minute or so. I must have hit
: something sharp since my helmet was cut through and blood was dripping out
: of my hair. Matt lowered me to the ground. I sat on the ground for about
: half an hour before my head stopped bleeding. My left shoulder was in great
: pain, my spine felt weird, and I had cuts all over my body. Luckily the car
: was only a 10-min walk away. I was rushed to the emergency room in
: Winchester, KY.
|
j*********r
发帖数: 654 | 17 敲石头的做法值得商榷。Yamnuska的路线都是松石，一抓就是一块。要是全清了，那整
个线路的性质都改变了。
【在 c*******r 的大作中提到】
: 下次带上锤子把它敲掉好了，省得总担心。
|
c*******r
发帖数: 13580 | 18 haha, I was just kidding. it's a class route. people will kill me if I knock
off a hold with a hammer.
【在 j*********r 的大作中提到】
: 敲石头的做法值得商榷。Yamnuska的路线都是松石，一抓就是一块。要是全清了，那整
: 个线路的性质都改变了。
|
h********r
发帖数: 3291 | |
Y****6
发帖数: 1235 | |
|
|
f*****e
发帖数: 57 | 21 cmft. Glad to see you escape with no major injury. |
l*****e
发帖数: 494 | 22 cft.
Lower
I
great
car
【在 p**********t 的大作中提到】
: I was leading the second pitch of Good Tang (3-pitch 5.7 trad) at the Lower
: Small Wall as my warm-up, when a hand hold broke and I fell about 30 ft
: upside-down, hitting my head and shoulder on the rock. I was conscious but I
: couldn’t stop screaming for the first half minute or so. I must have hit
: something sharp since my helmet was cut through and blood was dripping out
: of my hair. Matt lowered me to the ground. I sat on the ground for about
: half an hour before my head stopped bleeding. My left shoulder was in great
: pain, my spine felt weird, and I had cuts all over my body. Luckily the car
: was only a 10-min walk away. I was rushed to the emergency room in
: Winchester, KY.
|
q*c
发帖数: 17993 | 23 严重安慰，人没事就好，祝尽快康复
Lower
I
great
car
【在 p**********t 的大作中提到】
: I was leading the second pitch of Good Tang (3-pitch 5.7 trad) at the Lower
: Small Wall as my warm-up, when a hand hold broke and I fell about 30 ft
: upside-down, hitting my head and shoulder on the rock. I was conscious but I
: couldn’t stop screaming for the first half minute or so. I must have hit
: something sharp since my helmet was cut through and blood was dripping out
: of my hair. Matt lowered me to the ground. I sat on the ground for about
: half an hour before my head stopped bleeding. My left shoulder was in great
: pain, my spine felt weird, and I had cuts all over my body. Luckily the car
: was only a 10-min walk away. I was rushed to the emergency room in
: Winchester, KY.
|
S********g
发帖数: 922 | 24 Can't believe it is actually you?
Wish you a speedy recovery!
Lower
I
great
car
【在 p**********t 的大作中提到】
: I was leading the second pitch of Good Tang (3-pitch 5.7 trad) at the Lower
: Small Wall as my warm-up, when a hand hold broke and I fell about 30 ft
: upside-down, hitting my head and shoulder on the rock. I was conscious but I
: couldn’t stop screaming for the first half minute or so. I must have hit
: something sharp since my helmet was cut through and blood was dripping out
: of my hair. Matt lowered me to the ground. I sat on the ground for about
: half an hour before my head stopped bleeding. My left shoulder was in great
: pain, my spine felt weird, and I had cuts all over my body. Luckily the car
: was only a 10-min walk away. I was rushed to the emergency room in
: Winchester, KY.
|
T*********e
发帖数: 39815 | 25 sounds like you were the same weekend?
【在 S********g 的大作中提到】
: Can't believe it is actually you?
: Wish you a speedy recovery!
:
: Lower
: I
: great
: car
|
w***y
发帖数: 1313 | 26 啊啊啊啊啊
cft
bless...
Lower
I
great
car
【在 p**********t 的大作中提到】
: I was leading the second pitch of Good Tang (3-pitch 5.7 trad) at the Lower
: Small Wall as my warm-up, when a hand hold broke and I fell about 30 ft
: upside-down, hitting my head and shoulder on the rock. I was conscious but I
: couldn’t stop screaming for the first half minute or so. I must have hit
: something sharp since my helmet was cut through and blood was dripping out
: of my hair. Matt lowered me to the ground. I sat on the ground for about
: half an hour before my head stopped bleeding. My left shoulder was in great
: pain, my spine felt weird, and I had cuts all over my body. Luckily the car
: was only a 10-min walk away. I was rushed to the emergency room in
: Winchester, KY.
|
S********g
发帖数: 922 | 27 No. I mean when I first read it, I thought it was some other climber's
report.
【在 T*********e 的大作中提到】
: sounds like you were the same weekend?
|
p**********t
发帖数: 2636 | 28 It doesn't matter. I posted it because similar things can happen to every
trad leader. It is only a matter of time.
【在 S********g 的大作中提到】
: No. I mean when I first read it, I thought it was some other climber's
: report.
|
q*n
发帖数: 1203 | 29 为什么是头朝下掉？如果没有倒过来30feet fall也不会太危险吧。 上次tigerhead也
是头朝下。
还有你的那个hex真是要供起来了。。。你总结的运气是有的，但是真正救命的还是这
个放保护的基本技术。
【在 p**********t 的大作中提到】
: It was a classic.
|
S********g
发帖数: 922 | 30 yeah, just a matter of probability unfortunately. Even if you test every
hold. Testing the hold is different from actually pulling on the hold. And
honestly testing every hold takes a LOT of fun out of climbig, and it's only
on very easy climbs that you have the luxury of alternative holds.
I am not in any way promoting recklesness though.
【在 p**********t 的大作中提到】
: It doesn't matter. I posted it because similar things can happen to every
: trad leader. It is only a matter of time.
|
|
|
S********g
发帖数: 922 | 31 脚缠到绳子前面了吧。即使不头朝下也得看是不是clean fall。那个hex只能保证你不
deck，fall的路上撞上撞不上什么东西就是运气了。
【在 q*n 的大作中提到】
: 为什么是头朝下掉？如果没有倒过来30feet fall也不会太危险吧。 上次tigerhead也
: 是头朝下。
: 还有你的那个hex真是要供起来了。。。你总结的运气是有的，但是真正救命的还是这
: 个放保护的基本技术。
|
p**********t
发帖数: 2636 | 32 没缠。头向下是很容易发生的。
【在 S********g 的大作中提到】
: 脚缠到绳子前面了吧。即使不头朝下也得看是不是clean fall。那个hex只能保证你不
: deck，fall的路上撞上撞不上什么东西就是运气了。
|
c*******r
发帖数: 13580 | 33 我也头朝下leader fall过，脚没脱手脱了很容易发生，特别是还有overhang的时候
【在 p**********t 的大作中提到】
: 没缠。头向下是很容易发生的。
|
a*****s
发帖数: 838 | 34 scary experience but surely helpful. glad that you are mostly okay. thanks f
or sharing the experience in detail!
Lower
I
great
car
【在 p**********t 的大作中提到】
: I was leading the second pitch of Good Tang (3-pitch 5.7 trad) at the Lower
: Small Wall as my warm-up, when a hand hold broke and I fell about 30 ft
: upside-down, hitting my head and shoulder on the rock. I was conscious but I
: couldn’t stop screaming for the first half minute or so. I must have hit
: something sharp since my helmet was cut through and blood was dripping out
: of my hair. Matt lowered me to the ground. I sat on the ground for about
: half an hour before my head stopped bleeding. My left shoulder was in great
: pain, my spine felt weird, and I had cuts all over my body. Luckily the car
: was only a 10-min walk away. I was rushed to the emergency room in
: Winchester, KY.
|
s****t
发帖数: 746 | 35 头朝下很正常吧？尤其是Lead的时候。
我follow的时候都头朝下fall过，那次绳子不知道在哪里卡住了，没拉紧。
【在 q*n 的大作中提到】
: 为什么是头朝下掉？如果没有倒过来30feet fall也不会太危险吧。 上次tigerhead也
: 是头朝下。
: 还有你的那个hex真是要供起来了。。。你总结的运气是有的，但是真正救命的还是这
: 个放保护的基本技术。
|
S********g
发帖数: 922 | 36 I think it is unsafe to the establish the concept that:头朝下很正常. Falling
head down first could happen, but it is NOT 正常, and should be avoided.
【在 s****t 的大作中提到】
: 头朝下很正常吧？尤其是Lead的时候。
: 我follow的时候都头朝下fall过，那次绳子不知道在哪里卡住了，没拉紧。
|
m****g
发帖数: 3975 | |
j*********r
发帖数: 654 | 38 "...头朝下很正常吧？..."
Not really.
You will more likely plunge head first if the rise of the harness is too short.
Please refer to Metolius's website for a proper fitting.
http://www.metoliusclimbing.com/how-to-fit_a_harness.html
【在 s****t 的大作中提到】
: 头朝下很正常吧？尤其是Lead的时候。
: 我follow的时候都头朝下fall过，那次绳子不知道在哪里卡住了，没拉紧。
|
s****t
发帖数: 746 | 39 嗯，这个倒是值得学习，不过我觉得这个未必是头朝下fall的主因。
pink也是fall过不少次了吧？头朝下fall应该跟她harness没有直接关系。
我觉得跟fall之前的move和发力方向有些关系，
她掰掉个手点，身体应该外倾得趋势很大。
我上次头朝下fall之前也是个layback move。
或许如果harness的fit好，绳子take住之后能够找补回来，
不过如果之前发生swing或者已经hit了什么也很难说。
short.
【在 j*********r 的大作中提到】
: "...头朝下很正常吧？..."
: Not really.
: You will more likely plunge head first if the rise of the harness is too short.
: Please refer to Metolius's website for a proper fitting.
: http://www.metoliusclimbing.com/how-to-fit_a_harness.html
|
e**o
发帖数: 5509 | 40 有没有可能,fall的过程中下肢被绳子挡了一下就头朝下了?
【在 s****t 的大作中提到】
: 嗯，这个倒是值得学习，不过我觉得这个未必是头朝下fall的主因。
: pink也是fall过不少次了吧？头朝下fall应该跟她harness没有直接关系。
: 我觉得跟fall之前的move和发力方向有些关系，
: 她掰掉个手点，身体应该外倾得趋势很大。
: 我上次头朝下fall之前也是个layback move。
: 或许如果harness的fit好，绳子take住之后能够找补回来，
: 不过如果之前发生swing或者已经hit了什么也很难说。
:
: short.
|
|
|
q*n
发帖数: 1203 | 41
Falling
that's my hope，要不然所有的攀岩者都非常注意绳子和脚的位置，不就是为了避免这
个么。头朝下
掉危险性比正着掉高太多太多了。
除了Jane说的注意harness, 绳子位置之外还有什么避免的方法？ 是不是如果完全
caught off
guard的比稍微有所准备的更容易倒着？ 还有就是gym里好像从来没见过倒的，可能因
为bolts间隔
密？
【在 S********g 的大作中提到】
: I think it is unsafe to the establish the concept that:头朝下很正常. Falling
: head down first could happen, but it is NOT 正常, and should be avoided.
|
q*n
发帖数: 1203 | 42
layback move感觉是比较失去平衡，所以我爬这个的时候总是有心理障碍，非常小心。
【在 s****t 的大作中提到】
: 嗯，这个倒是值得学习，不过我觉得这个未必是头朝下fall的主因。
: pink也是fall过不少次了吧？头朝下fall应该跟她harness没有直接关系。
: 我觉得跟fall之前的move和发力方向有些关系，
: 她掰掉个手点，身体应该外倾得趋势很大。
: 我上次头朝下fall之前也是个layback move。
: 或许如果harness的fit好，绳子take住之后能够找补回来，
: 不过如果之前发生swing或者已经hit了什么也很难说。
:
: short.
|
T*********e
发帖数: 39815 | 43 gym里的lead wall多半是overhang的，一般都是clean fall，只要别发生绳子缠腿的错
误，不容易头朝下
外面的lead路线，尤其是简单路线，是low angle的，掉的过程中身体碰了啥东西，就
不知道最后会怎么样了
【在 q*n 的大作中提到】
:
: layback move感觉是比较失去平衡，所以我爬这个的时候总是有心理障碍，非常小心。
|
q*n
发帖数: 1203 | 44 碰撞过程中头倒过来危险没那么大，因为速度下来了，可怕的就是一开始就倒了然后
first impact就是头碰石头。 :(
这种情况overhang也很有可能撞上。
【在 T*********e 的大作中提到】
: gym里的lead wall多半是overhang的，一般都是clean fall，只要别发生绳子缠腿的错
: 误，不容易头朝下
: 外面的lead路线，尤其是简单路线，是low angle的，掉的过程中身体碰了啥东西，就
: 不知道最后会怎么样了
|
T*********e
发帖数: 39815 | 45 这个情况可能会狠复杂
比如说刚开始脚就挂到了突起的石头上，然后就失去了平衡，接下来来一段稍微长距离
的近似clean的fall，那就悲剧了
具体情况如何很难说，还和当时手脚位置平衡状态都有关系
这种突如其来的fall基本上没啥办法
【在 q*n 的大作中提到】
: 碰撞过程中头倒过来危险没那么大，因为速度下来了，可怕的就是一开始就倒了然后
: first impact就是头碰石头。 :(
: 这种情况overhang也很有可能撞上。
|
s****t
发帖数: 746 | 46 low angle是最讨厌的，我还有另外一次头朝下fall的经历就是low angle，
不过和攀岩没啥关系，是在雪上rappel。下到一个edge边上，我没注意，
脚下一滑，直接后仰头朝下掉下去了。
幸好底下是overhang的，另外手没松所以绳子是紧的，头没有磕到，
就是绳子一下drop了半个身长，然后头朝下悬在半空中，搞了半天才正过来。
那次跟harness肯定也没有任何关系了，那次用的根本就是alpine bod，
rise只可能长，不可能短。
【在 T*********e 的大作中提到】
: gym里的lead wall多半是overhang的，一般都是clean fall，只要别发生绳子缠腿的错
: 误，不容易头朝下
: 外面的lead路线，尤其是简单路线，是low angle的，掉的过程中身体碰了啥东西，就
: 不知道最后会怎么样了
|
s****t
发帖数: 746 | 47 感觉在绳子挂住你之前发生的任何事基本都比较无能为力，
自由落体了那也没法控制，所以还是脑子里面要有根弦，
随时想着可能会fall。
【在 T*********e 的大作中提到】
: 这个情况可能会狠复杂
: 比如说刚开始脚就挂到了突起的石头上，然后就失去了平衡，接下来来一段稍微长距离
: 的近似clean的fall，那就悲剧了
: 具体情况如何很难说，还和当时手脚位置平衡状态都有关系
: 这种突如其来的fall基本上没啥办法
|
p**********t
发帖数: 2636 | 48 嗯，就是这么悲剧的。
【在 q*n 的大作中提到】
: 碰撞过程中头倒过来危险没那么大，因为速度下来了，可怕的就是一开始就倒了然后
: first impact就是头碰石头。 :(
: 这种情况overhang也很有可能撞上。
|
c*******r
发帖数: 13580 | 49 我在gym里倒过，很大的overhang，手点脱落，自然就后仰了
【在 q*n 的大作中提到】
: 碰撞过程中头倒过来危险没那么大，因为速度下来了，可怕的就是一开始就倒了然后
: first impact就是头碰石头。 :(
: 这种情况overhang也很有可能撞上。
|
o*****e
发帖数: 379 | 50 Belay过两个long lead fall，都是runout了。
其实情况都差不多，都是硬撑着，最后撑不住，out of balance了。第一个人fall之前
很明显看到一个往后跳的动作，然后有点overhang，很clean的fall，身体就一直都是
正着的，而且大概因为线很长，中间摩擦力很大，我居然只感到一点很轻微的pull。
第二个家伙是完全被动的fall的，从几乎top of route开始，在将近middle的地方碰了
下石头有点减速。上面slack的绳子跟着掉下来绊了一下，马上就头朝下了，最后停在
我的眼前... 我们运气真的很好，那么短的线本来belayer是都不anchor的。我纯粹闲
着无聊，随手放了个最小号的stopper玩，最后还就是那个小东西拉住了我，不然
climber很可能就撞地了...
现在想想，lead还是不能太push，觉得快不行了，还是要勇敢地往下跳~ |
|
|
T*********e
发帖数: 39815 | 51 主动跳并不能完全避免受伤，我的膝盖不就是这么撞伤的
当然无意识的fall更不可控就是了
【在 o*****e 的大作中提到】
: Belay过两个long lead fall，都是runout了。
: 其实情况都差不多，都是硬撑着，最后撑不住，out of balance了。第一个人fall之前
: 很明显看到一个往后跳的动作，然后有点overhang，很clean的fall，身体就一直都是
: 正着的，而且大概因为线很长，中间摩擦力很大，我居然只感到一点很轻微的pull。
: 第二个家伙是完全被动的fall的，从几乎top of route开始，在将近middle的地方碰了
: 下石头有点减速。上面slack的绳子跟着掉下来绊了一下，马上就头朝下了，最后停在
: 我的眼前... 我们运气真的很好，那么短的线本来belayer是都不anchor的。我纯粹闲
: 着无聊，随手放了个最小号的stopper玩，最后还就是那个小东西拉住了我，不然
: climber很可能就撞地了...
: 现在想想，lead还是不能太push，觉得快不行了，还是要勇敢地往下跳~
|
c*******r
发帖数: 13580 | 52
huh? that is so wrong for trad climbing. you need to put in a good piece or
two and hang on it if necessary.
【在 o*****e 的大作中提到】
: Belay过两个long lead fall，都是runout了。
: 其实情况都差不多，都是硬撑着，最后撑不住，out of balance了。第一个人fall之前
: 很明显看到一个往后跳的动作，然后有点overhang，很clean的fall，身体就一直都是
: 正着的，而且大概因为线很长，中间摩擦力很大，我居然只感到一点很轻微的pull。
: 第二个家伙是完全被动的fall的，从几乎top of route开始，在将近middle的地方碰了
: 下石头有点减速。上面slack的绳子跟着掉下来绊了一下，马上就头朝下了，最后停在
: 我的眼前... 我们运气真的很好，那么短的线本来belayer是都不anchor的。我纯粹闲
: 着无聊，随手放了个最小号的stopper玩，最后还就是那个小东西拉住了我，不然
: climber很可能就撞地了...
: 现在想想，lead还是不能太push，觉得快不行了，还是要勇敢地往下跳~
|
o*****e
发帖数: 379 | 53 Well, sometimes you don't have choice. The first guy I am talking about has
climbed for 30 years and never had trad lead fall before. It's a 10c route
in Tieton. Actually, he fell about 30ft, and fixed every piece of gear (3-4)
on his way back up.
Another lady in Tieton, tested on a gear which she didn't like, by jumping
on the gear, and had a 10ft fall, which is not very correct, hehe.
or
【在 c*******r 的大作中提到】
:
: huh? that is so wrong for trad climbing. you need to put in a good piece or
: two and hang on it if necessary.
|
q*n
发帖数: 1203 | 54 多谢分享经验， 很有借鉴意义，我没lead fall也没belay过lead fall, 总有点等待这
只鞋子掉下来的惴惴感。:(
这个，我特别没有向下跳的勇气，所以gym里的lead test至今没过。 ：（ 如果可能还
是放gear或者downclimb到不行为
止比较好。
【在 o*****e 的大作中提到】
: Belay过两个long lead fall，都是runout了。
: 其实情况都差不多，都是硬撑着，最后撑不住，out of balance了。第一个人fall之前
: 很明显看到一个往后跳的动作，然后有点overhang，很clean的fall，身体就一直都是
: 正着的，而且大概因为线很长，中间摩擦力很大，我居然只感到一点很轻微的pull。
: 第二个家伙是完全被动的fall的，从几乎top of route开始，在将近middle的地方碰了
: 下石头有点减速。上面slack的绳子跟着掉下来绊了一下，马上就头朝下了，最后停在
: 我的眼前... 我们运气真的很好，那么短的线本来belayer是都不anchor的。我纯粹闲
: 着无聊，随手放了个最小号的stopper玩，最后还就是那个小东西拉住了我，不然
: climber很可能就撞地了...
: 现在想想，lead还是不能太push，觉得快不行了，还是要勇敢地往下跳~
|
q*n
发帖数: 1203 | 55
has
4)
这个什么意思，没看懂。
【在 o*****e 的大作中提到】
: Well, sometimes you don't have choice. The first guy I am talking about has
: climbed for 30 years and never had trad lead fall before. It's a 10c route
: in Tieton. Actually, he fell about 30ft, and fixed every piece of gear (3-4)
: on his way back up.
: Another lady in Tieton, tested on a gear which she didn't like, by jumping
: on the gear, and had a 10ft fall, which is not very correct, hehe.
:
: or
|
R**i
发帖数: 7994 | 56 pat pat
太scary了！
尤其是看到你的头盔被cut through，血从头发里面流出来。。。。 |
a*****s
发帖数: 838 | 57 me, too.
scary..
it was not even a serious overhang in my case
the rope was not the rope for that route, but the belayer said, it's okay,
let's use it. i was a new climber, freshlly new, back then.
【在 c*******r 的大作中提到】
: 我在gym里倒过，很大的overhang，手点脱落，自然就后仰了
|
a******g
发帖数: 320 | 58 发现自己胆子真的很小，大家都这么 fall 还爬得这么开心。我第一次 trad lead
就一个小 fall，结果在 gym 里面 lead 都有心理阴影。漂流摔一次后玩 jetski
再也不敢把油门开到底。
不过话说回来，每次登山事故大家都总结经验教训，而且往往骂声不断。就算准备
再充分，也可以批评说这种天气就不要爬了。像这种几乎是无法避免而且确实有可能
重伤甚至致命的事故，大家又怎么看呢？ |
c*******r
发帖数: 13580 | 59 not all falls are created equal. falling on sport routes, trad routes,
alpine routes, aid routes, and ice are totally different. clean falls on
sport routes are totally fine, sometimes it's the point. on alpine routes
however it's very rare to be OK to take a fall.
【在 a******g 的大作中提到】
: 发现自己胆子真的很小，大家都这么 fall 还爬得这么开心。我第一次 trad lead
: 就一个小 fall，结果在 gym 里面 lead 都有心理阴影。漂流摔一次后玩 jetski
: 再也不敢把油门开到底。
: 不过话说回来，每次登山事故大家都总结经验教训，而且往往骂声不断。就算准备
: 再充分，也可以批评说这种天气就不要爬了。像这种几乎是无法避免而且确实有可能
: 重伤甚至致命的事故，大家又怎么看呢？
|
o*****e
发帖数: 379 | 60 嗯，是啊，所以我是不敢push的...
我们有次gym上课，lead belay的时候练习一个叫soft belay的东西。我一次就过了，
所以我partner只跳了一次。但我partner的soft belay总是过不了，害的我一次一次的
跳，恨死了。最后我说我满意的不能再满意了，instructor还是不干，让我继续跳:-(
【在 q*n 的大作中提到】
: 多谢分享经验， 很有借鉴意义，我没lead fall也没belay过lead fall, 总有点等待这
: 只鞋子掉下来的惴惴感。:(
:
: 这个，我特别没有向下跳的勇气，所以gym里的lead test至今没过。 ：（ 如果可能还
: 是放gear或者downclimb到不行为
: 止比较好。
|
|
|
o*****e
发帖数: 379 | 61 开始gear很密，过了最后一个gear后，我从底下看，觉得他已经没办法stop and place
gear了，只能憋着口气往上冲，所以最后fall的地方比最后一个gear高了很多，从
fall下来的位置爬回最后一个gear，中间还经过了好几个，都重新fix了一下。大概这
一路的gear，不止最后一个，都受到这个long fall的影响了。
【在 q*n 的大作中提到】
:
: has
: 4)
: 这个什么意思，没看懂。
|
q*n
发帖数: 1203 | 62 探讨以下，头朝下算clean fall吗
我们两以前讨论过这个问题，我总觉得攀岩就是个有危险的运动，不同种类危险程度不
一而已。
你说的如果所有方法措施判断都正确就可以非常安全（原话好像是说开车的危险性相当
）我觉得不完全同意。
【在 c*******r 的大作中提到】
: not all falls are created equal. falling on sport routes, trad routes,
: alpine routes, aid routes, and ice are totally different. clean falls on
: sport routes are totally fine, sometimes it's the point. on alpine routes
: however it's very rare to be OK to take a fall.
|
f*****e
发帖数: 57 | 63 For other people's accidents, it's all about the mistakes they made. Even
they are world-class climbers, sometimes I thought: I wouldn't make that
kind of stupid mistakes.
After I had my own one, I had a totally different perspective: there are
real RISK in climbing, and there is a real possibility I could die, or even
worse, get paralyzed from it.
I hope everyone can realize the same thing.
【在 a******g 的大作中提到】
: 发现自己胆子真的很小，大家都这么 fall 还爬得这么开心。我第一次 trad lead
: 就一个小 fall，结果在 gym 里面 lead 都有心理阴影。漂流摔一次后玩 jetski
: 再也不敢把油门开到底。
: 不过话说回来，每次登山事故大家都总结经验教训，而且往往骂声不断。就算准备
: 再充分，也可以批评说这种天气就不要爬了。像这种几乎是无法避免而且确实有可能
: 重伤甚至致命的事故，大家又怎么看呢？
|
q*n
发帖数: 1203 | 64 明白了。 那他回去再爬的时候那一段是怎么处理的。
我觉得自己也有宁愿往上冲也不愿意停下来放gear的习惯，因为总觉得放gear的时候力竭
fall的可能性大一些，这点需要改正。 更本原因还是现在放gear不够熟练太消耗体力。
place
【在 o*****e 的大作中提到】
: 开始gear很密，过了最后一个gear后，我从底下看，觉得他已经没办法stop and place
: gear了，只能憋着口气往上冲，所以最后fall的地方比最后一个gear高了很多，从
: fall下来的位置爬回最后一个gear，中间还经过了好几个，都重新fix了一下。大概这
: 一路的gear，不止最后一个，都受到这个long fall的影响了。
|
c*******r
发帖数: 13580 | 65 not totally clean to me, unless it's a huge overhang. but even then, it's
more dangerous than an upright fall.
my take on this is that safe is a relative term. sitting on a couch is safe,
jumping off a cliff without a parachute is suicidal. everything else is
somewhere in between. how much risk you want to take is a personal choice. I
don't judge anyone who takes a high calculated risk. but not everyone
understands the risk they are taking. and that, in my opinion, is
recklessness and stupidity.
and then again, there are many kinds of climbing and different levels. all
of them have inherent risk (so is every other activity including driving).
but some can be done much safer than others. I truly believe climbing top
rope in the gym is much safer than driving.
【在 q*n 的大作中提到】
: 探讨以下，头朝下算clean fall吗
: 我们两以前讨论过这个问题，我总觉得攀岩就是个有危险的运动，不同种类危险程度不
: 一而已。
: 你说的如果所有方法措施判断都正确就可以非常安全（原话好像是说开车的危险性相当
: ）我觉得不完全同意。
|
o*****e
发帖数: 379 | 66 不记得了... 其实他lead之前clean的TR过两遍，所以我觉得他肯定是有把握能完成的
。他自己说第一次是着急了，sequence错了。而且他想claim那条线，所以不会轻易
take。我实在很佩服掉了那么一长段，还能接着爬回去的勇气... 不过估计他不爬，没
人能回去替他捡东西...
我觉得不一定是不愿意停下来放，是停不下来。我爬crack如果两只脚都需要jamming，
就停不下来，layback也停不下来，总得至少有一个foot hold才能停的住... 还比较怕
那种gear都在线路一侧的，另一只手总是很容易就酸了...
力竭
力。
【在 q*n 的大作中提到】
: 明白了。 那他回去再爬的时候那一段是怎么处理的。
: 我觉得自己也有宁愿往上冲也不愿意停下来放gear的习惯，因为总觉得放gear的时候力竭
: fall的可能性大一些，这点需要改正。 更本原因还是现在放gear不够熟练太消耗体力。
:
: place
|
S********g
发帖数: 922 | 67 I would add "trad climbing" into this. Top rope and sports are in general
much safer, even outdoors.
Other than that I totally agree with you. Everyone should realize the
inherent risk. Don't think you are different or you are wiser than other
people.
even
【在 f*****e 的大作中提到】
: For other people's accidents, it's all about the mistakes they made. Even
: they are world-class climbers, sometimes I thought: I wouldn't make that
: kind of stupid mistakes.
: After I had my own one, I had a totally different perspective: there are
: real RISK in climbing, and there is a real possibility I could die, or even
: worse, get paralyzed from it.
: I hope everyone can realize the same thing.
|
e**o
发帖数: 5509 | 68 哈哈.我和partner发生过两次这事.
爬到一半才发现,然后还差几步到顶,就不得不放弃.
有一次,开始系绳子的时候就是两个不同的绳子.
还有一次,我都双脚离地,对方开始belay了才发现是两根不同的绳子,赶紧爬下来换绳子.
【在 a*****s 的大作中提到】
: me, too.
: scary..
: it was not even a serious overhang in my case
: the rope was not the rope for that route, but the belayer said, it's okay,
: let's use it. i was a new climber, freshlly new, back then.
|
e**o
发帖数: 5509 | 69 上lead 课的时候没练习过?
【在 q*n 的大作中提到】
: 多谢分享经验， 很有借鉴意义，我没lead fall也没belay过lead fall, 总有点等待这
: 只鞋子掉下来的惴惴感。:(
:
: 这个，我特别没有向下跳的勇气，所以gym里的lead test至今没过。 ：（ 如果可能还
: 是放gear或者downclimb到不行为
: 止比较好。
|
e**o
发帖数: 5509 | 70 ft.lead课上要求2次fall,我都犹豫半天,感觉让下面的人等的不能再等了,才硬着头皮
跳.
【在 o*****e 的大作中提到】
: 嗯，是啊，所以我是不敢push的...
: 我们有次gym上课，lead belay的时候练习一个叫soft belay的东西。我一次就过了，
: 所以我partner只跳了一次。但我partner的soft belay总是过不了，害的我一次一次的
: 跳，恨死了。最后我说我满意的不能再满意了，instructor还是不干，让我继续跳:-(
|
|
|
S********g
发帖数: 922 | 71 Don't be misled. I don't think people here fall regularly on TRAD LEAD, at
all!
【在 a******g 的大作中提到】
: 发现自己胆子真的很小，大家都这么 fall 还爬得这么开心。我第一次 trad lead
: 就一个小 fall，结果在 gym 里面 lead 都有心理阴影。漂流摔一次后玩 jetski
: 再也不敢把油门开到底。
: 不过话说回来，每次登山事故大家都总结经验教训，而且往往骂声不断。就算准备
: 再充分，也可以批评说这种天气就不要爬了。像这种几乎是无法避免而且确实有可能
: 重伤甚至致命的事故，大家又怎么看呢？
|
c*******r
发帖数: 13580 | 72 Actually I have never fallen on any free trad route. I have taken a few
falls on aid and more on sport routes.
【在 S********g 的大作中提到】
: Don't be misled. I don't think people here fall regularly on TRAD LEAD, at
: all!
|
S********g
发帖数: 922 | 73 Yeah, I don't want the mass gym climbers to come here, see this thread, and
think to themselves that it is okay to fall on trad, or okay to fall head
first. It is NOT okay.
【在 c*******r 的大作中提到】
: Actually I have never fallen on any free trad route. I have taken a few
: falls on aid and more on sport routes.
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x****i
发帖数: 69 | 74 There is a book called Rock Warrior's Way.
The author is not well educated, and the book contains some stupid
philosophical non-sense. However, the book deals with mental aspects of
climbing. The author covers many topics and shares quite some of his
personal stories.
It is certainly not a textbook, but much can be learned. |
c*******r
发帖数: 13580 | 75 I haven't read the book, what are his stupid stories?
【在 x****i 的大作中提到】
: There is a book called Rock Warrior's Way.
: The author is not well educated, and the book contains some stupid
: philosophical non-sense. However, the book deals with mental aspects of
: climbing. The author covers many topics and shares quite some of his
: personal stories.
: It is certainly not a textbook, but much can be learned.
|
q*n
发帖数: 1203 | 76 没上过课，不过练习和实际不一样的。
【在 e**o 的大作中提到】
: 上lead 课的时候没练习过?
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q*n
发帖数: 1203 | 77 yes, that's what i hope to clarify too for myself.
and
【在 S********g 的大作中提到】
: Yeah, I don't want the mass gym climbers to come here, see this thread, and
: think to themselves that it is okay to fall on trad, or okay to fall head
: first. It is NOT okay.
|
q*n
发帖数: 1203 | 78 mostly agree. Nonetheless i think it is more important to emphasize that
cimbing is inherent dangerous as in the disclaimer of all climbing books
and gears, toproping in the gym is not a representaive climbing activity
even all of us spend lots of time on it.
safe,
I
【在 c*******r 的大作中提到】
: not totally clean to me, unless it's a huge overhang. but even then, it's
: more dangerous than an upright fall.
: my take on this is that safe is a relative term. sitting on a couch is safe,
: jumping off a cliff without a parachute is suicidal. everything else is
: somewhere in between. how much risk you want to take is a personal choice. I
: don't judge anyone who takes a high calculated risk. but not everyone
: understands the risk they are taking. and that, in my opinion, is
: recklessness and stupidity.
: and then again, there are many kinds of climbing and different levels. all
: of them have inherent risk (so is every other activity including driving).
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c*******r
发帖数: 13580 | 79 well, I don't know what is representative of climbing. I do all sorts of
climbing and I don't discriminate against any :)
【在 q*n 的大作中提到】
: mostly agree. Nonetheless i think it is more important to emphasize that
: cimbing is inherent dangerous as in the disclaimer of all climbing books
: and gears, toproping in the gym is not a representaive climbing activity
: even all of us spend lots of time on it.
:
: safe,
: I
|
q*n
发帖数: 1203 | 80
this doesn't seem right too me. you can pause to place gear in the
middle of jamming and layback moves, it's just more strenous and requires
good techinques. :)
【在 o*****e 的大作中提到】
: 不记得了... 其实他lead之前clean的TR过两遍，所以我觉得他肯定是有把握能完成的
: 。他自己说第一次是着急了，sequence错了。而且他想claim那条线，所以不会轻易
: take。我实在很佩服掉了那么一长段，还能接着爬回去的勇气... 不过估计他不爬，没
: 人能回去替他捡东西...
: 我觉得不一定是不愿意停下来放，是停不下来。我爬crack如果两只脚都需要jamming，
: 就停不下来，layback也停不下来，总得至少有一个foot hold才能停的住... 还比较怕
: 那种gear都在线路一侧的，另一只手总是很容易就酸了...
:
: 力竭
: 力。
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c*******r
发帖数: 13580 | 81 and if you can't, you are climbing above your leading grade.
【在 q*n 的大作中提到】
:
: this doesn't seem right too me. you can pause to place gear in the
: middle of jamming and layback moves, it's just more strenous and requires
: good techinques. :)
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o*****e
发帖数: 379 | 82 嗯，不过好像gym里没啥机会练习crack和layback...
我觉得我手特没力气，所以很怕需要放部分重量在一只手上的stop and place gear；
更怕每一次stop都放重量在同一只手上... 刚才坐office里回味了一遍，发现手心都是
汗，呵呵。
【在 q*n 的大作中提到】
:
: this doesn't seem right too me. you can pause to place gear in the
: middle of jamming and layback moves, it's just more strenous and requires
: good techinques. :)
|
p**********t
发帖数: 2636 | 83 Let someone else put a toprope on a good crack or layback, then run laps on
it.
We all learn jamming from the milage that we jam, and layback from the
milage we actually layback.
【在 o*****e 的大作中提到】
: 嗯，不过好像gym里没啥机会练习crack和layback...
: 我觉得我手特没力气，所以很怕需要放部分重量在一只手上的stop and place gear；
: 更怕每一次stop都放重量在同一只手上... 刚才坐office里回味了一遍，发现手心都是
: 汗，呵呵。
|
m******e
发帖数: 4232 | 84 看到MM的报告，抱抱，吓死了，，，
Lower
I
great
car
【在 p**********t 的大作中提到】
: I was leading the second pitch of Good Tang (3-pitch 5.7 trad) at the Lower
: Small Wall as my warm-up, when a hand hold broke and I fell about 30 ft
: upside-down, hitting my head and shoulder on the rock. I was conscious but I
: couldn’t stop screaming for the first half minute or so. I must have hit
: something sharp since my helmet was cut through and blood was dripping out
: of my hair. Matt lowered me to the ground. I sat on the ground for about
: half an hour before my head stopped bleeding. My left shoulder was in great
: pain, my spine felt weird, and I had cuts all over my body. Luckily the car
: was only a 10-min walk away. I was rushed to the emergency room in
: Winchester, KY.
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d**p
发帖数: 1800 | 85 哈哈，翻老帖子看到这个。过几天这本书的作者来这里上一次课，主要就讲怎么克服心
理障碍，怎么评估危险，决定什么险可以冒，什么不可以等等
【在 x****i 的大作中提到】
: There is a book called Rock Warrior's Way.
: The author is not well educated, and the book contains some stupid
: philosophical non-sense. However, the book deals with mental aspects of
: climbing. The author covers many topics and shares quite some of his
: personal stories.
: It is certainly not a textbook, but much can be learned.
|
