n*******y
发帖数: 3337 | 1 Mar 8, 14, 8:27 pm #1
EagleTX
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 9
Angry Appealing AAdvantage Account Closure
.
Hello All,
I really need your help here. I'm feeling desperate!!
I've been a great American Airlines customer (have accumulated over 2
Millions Miles with AA) - Got GOLD for life status - and travel extensively
with AA. Platinum Status for many years.
From what I can determine from the limited details provided by analyst J C
my AAdvantage account is being closed because I returned purchases that were
made with my Citibank AA credit card back in 2012/2013. I do not dispute
that I did indeed need to return some purchases and I fully expected any
miles that were credited to me for the original purchases to be subsequently
deducted from my AAdvantage account. Apparently this did not happen; the
miles were never deducted from my account. To that, I lay the blame on
Citibank, as I cannot see anywhere in the AAdvantage program terms and
conditions where the AAdvantage member is required to return the miles, in
fact, I don’t even see a method a member can return the miles!
Therefore my AA account is being closed, all my unused miles 900K gone, my
issue award tickets canceled.
In few words, a big mess for me.
How do I appeal such a harsh decision??
Ideas? any experience on this? | c*****a
发帖数: 342 | 2 citi好像历来就是这样的，退货收回mile很严格的 | f********n
发帖数: 1647 | 3 但这人900K gone？
就是所有的miles都没有了？
【在 c*****a 的大作中提到】
: citi好像历来就是这样的，退货收回mile很严格的
| n*******y
发帖数: 3337 | 4 Mar 9, 14, 12:09 pm #47
EagleTX
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 9
First off, thank you all for the great feedbacks.
Based on your comments here are more facts:
From what I can determine from the limited details provided by AA analyst J.
C. my (and my wife) AAdvantage accounts are being closed because I returned
purchases that were made with my Citibank AA credit card back in 2012/2013.
First email from AA Analyst J. C. came in on Tuesday 3/4/14 – asking me for
proof of purchase and proof of payment from back 2012/2013 (which I don’t
have as the AA Citibank Cards are closed and its old purchases) – We had 2
emails exchange (very polite on my end) and “boom” on Friday 3/7/2014 5PM
– she send me an email telling me:
“Regrettably, we have been unable to resolve the conflict between the facts
of our investigation regarding this matter. AAdvantage miles are earned on
purchases, except returned goods and services, cash advances, convenience
checks, transferred balances, credits, fees, and interest charges.
Accordingly, from American Airlines conditions of carriage:
Fraudulent, Fictitious and Abusive Bookings: Fraudulent, fictitious and/or
abusive bookings are prohibited. These types of bookings are defined as any
bookings made without having been requested by or on behalf of the named
passenger. Additionally, creating bookings to hold or block seats for the
purpose of obtaining lower fares, AAdvantage award inventory, or upgrades
that may not otherwise be available, or to gain access to airport facilities
, or to circumvent any of American Airlines' fare rules or policies, is
prohibited without prior authorization from American Airlines.
Furthermore , the terms and conditions from the AAdvantage Program:
• Fraud, misrepresentation, abuse or violation of applicable rules (
including, but not limited to, American or American Eagle conditions of
carriage, tariffs and AAdvantage program rules) is subject to appropriate
administrative and/or legal action by appropriate governmental authorities
and American Airlines. Such action may include, without limitation, the
forfeiture of all award tickets, and any accrued mileage in a member's
account, as well as cancellation of the account and the member's future
participation in the AAdvantage program. In addition, American Airlines
reserves the right to take appropriate legal action to recover damages,
including its attorney fees incurred in prosecuting any lawsuit.
• American Airlines reserves the right to audit any and all accounts
at any time and without notice to the member to ensure compliance with
AAdvantage program rules and applicable conditions of carriage and/or
tariffs. In the event that an audit reveals discrepancies or violations, the
processing of AAdvantage awards, mileage accrual and summaries may be
delayed until the discrepancies or violations are resolved satisfactorily to
American Airlines. Pending such resolution, members may be prohibited from
redeeming mileage credits for an AAdvantage award or ticket as determined in
American's sole discretion.
As mileage reflected in your account was earned on refunded goods and/or
services violating the AAdvantage Terms and Conditions, effective March 7,
2014, account xxx has been closed. All membership benefits associated with
this account, including all remaining miles and issued award tickets, are
forfeited. You are no longer eligible to participate in the AAdvantage
program.
”
I did made some AA flights purchases back 2012 2013, then for some business
reason I had to cancel - and yes the cards go closed some months after. I
would say total returned for both wouldn't be much then 100k.
I do not dispute that I did indeed need to return some purchases (due to
some planning changes) and I fully expected any miles that were credited to
me for the original purchases to be subsequently deducted from my AAdvantage
account. Apparently this did not happen; the miles were never deducted from
my account. To that, I lay the blame on Citibank, as I cannot see anywhere
in the AAdvantage program terms and conditions where the AAdvantage member
is required to return the miles, in fact, I don’t even see a method a
member can return the miles!
I can’t believe AA penalizes loyal customers due to an obvious bank
oversight.
Total miles lost: about 900K – and I just checked also they canceled my
already issued awards tickets (awards ticket that I booked 6months back for
my whole family, international trip – another 400k miles) – and losing my
Gold for life Status – and about 30 Award upgrades.
As I said, this AA Analyst J. C. didn’t look at the whole picture… and put
me in a situation that I don’t know how to come out from!!
My international awards trip canceled… that is a major hit!!
What is my best resource to get this resolve in a more professional way and
satisfactory to all?
I have the impression AA don’t care if you are loyal customer or not.
Thanks again. | n*******y
发帖数: 3337 | 5 Mar 9, 14, 12:36 pm #53
EagleTX
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 9
I would say maybe around 100k$ that did get credited back to my Citibank
card - but miles didn't go deducted from my AA Frequent flyer. make sense?
I can see that they are been very serious.
But based on the Analyst AA J. C. research (she didn't give me any, nothing,
no details at all - only saying the following) she just requested:
My name is J. C., and I am an analyst with American Airlines. One of my
responsibilities is investigating possible instances of fraud,
misrepresentation, and violations of the General AAdvantage® Program
Conditions. Today, I’m writing you about your AAdvantage account # xxx.
We have reason to believe that mileage points reflected in your account
summary violate the AAdvantage program conditions. As a result, American
Airlines has suspended your AAdvantage membership privileges and use of AA.
com® in conjunction with your account – and may terminate your account
as a result of our findings. We are in the process of completing the
investigation into this matter, and I would like to hear the events as they
occurred from your perspective. Please respond to this message by March 6,
2014 with complete and accurate information regarding the activity listed
below:
Please provide proof of purchase and payment for the points earned in your
account from June 21, 2012 to present date associated with your Citi
AAdvantage card purchases.
To protect and retain the integrity of the AAdvantage program, it is vital
that firm action be taken as a result of any violation of the AAdvantage
Program Conditions, whether intentional or not. Failure to respond
completely and accurately by March 7, 2014 will result in the termination of
your AAdvantage membership and all its benefits, including all remaining
AAdvantage miles in your account.
We hope to hear from you soon.
My reply:
It is my belief that Citibank should have informed AA of any returns and AA
to then debit my AAdvantage account. I do not understand why they did not do
that but in any case I have no issue with AA debiting my account for any
returns as per AA policy. Unfortunately I do not keep my receipts or
statements beyond a few months so I cannot tell you what I returned and what
I did not. However I firmly believe the onus for such proof should lie
between AA and Citibank, not the cardholder/AAdvantage member and I
personally resent this treatment by AA.
Please debit my account for any returns that Citibank has identified and
verified.
I understand they take this seriously and I have no problem for them
deducting me miles they think I didn’t earn. Be to go and close account,
forfeit all the miles and awards tickets…
It’s not extreme?? | b*****e
发帖数: 53215 | 6 退10万块，难怪让人搞，有啥好冤的
nothing,
【在 n*******y 的大作中提到】
: Mar 9, 14, 12:36 pm #53
: EagleTX
: Join Date: Mar 2014
: Posts: 9
:
: I would say maybe around 100k$ that did get credited back to my Citibank
: card - but miles didn't go deducted from my AA Frequent flyer. make sense?
: I can see that they are been very serious.
: But based on the Analyst AA J. C. research (she didn't give me any, nothing,
: no details at all - only saying the following) she just requested:
| s*****c
发帖数: 5202 | 7 退100k的东西，开银行的肯定不喜欢这样的客户啊
nothing,
【在 n*******y 的大作中提到】
: Mar 9, 14, 12:36 pm #53
: EagleTX
: Join Date: Mar 2014
: Posts: 9
:
: I would say maybe around 100k$ that did get credited back to my Citibank
: card - but miles didn't go deducted from my AA Frequent flyer. make sense?
: I can see that they are been very serious.
: But based on the Analyst AA J. C. research (she didn't give me any, nothing,
: no details at all - only saying the following) she just requested:
| n*******y
发帖数: 3337 | 8 Mar 9, 14, 12:53 pm #57
EagleTX
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 9
10 years of clean travel: Platinum in AA and United, and Platinum in
Marriott, IHG and HHonors and Gold in SPG. and never an incident until this
major one!!
I appreciate all your feedbacks.
I don't know if hiring a lawyer (gonna cost $$) will help solve the issue to
my favor?
Reading from some of the post, No - never sold my AA miles - just used for
me and my close family.
This is real issue my friends.. I copied and paste email from AA Analyst J.
C. to me and my reply.
I understand Citibank is a bigger customer then me... so no problem about
bad mouthing them.
I'm just trying to see.. what I can use to my defense?
I'm ok for AA to take miles not earned.
I'm going to call AA relation center tomorrow... and wish for my luck.
Anyone have heard of any situation like that? and help they could give - for
me to use when talking tomorrow to Customer relation?
I think that's my only chance... | n*******y
发帖数: 3337 | 9 Mar 9, 14, 12:55 pm #58
Often1
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 14,894
OP - AA identified a concern, gave you a chance to respond and you blew them
off. While you are correct that it may have been Citi's job to have
informed AA in the first place, the ultimate responsibility for your account
is on you. You should also consider that AA likely learned of your conduct
from Citi. How else would AA know that you were returning items?
Once this mess is with AA's security people, customer service won't talk
with you other than to refer you back.
If you want to have a prayer of keeping any of the 900K miles or obtaining
status, send another response, apologizing for blowing of JC, and attaching
whatever it is that you do have by way of receipts or other backup. It may
be too late and it may not matter anyway, but right now you have made a bad
situation worse and AA's more than likely to fire you, at least from its
program. | n*******y
发帖数: 3337 | 10 Mar 9, 14, 1:05 pm #60
EagleTX
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 9
yes 100K$ worth of AA ticket!!
International, multi stops, business class, fully refundable ticket - get
very expensive. average 20K$ a pop.
Yes I got the miles via the credit card.. then I had some business changes..
and reschedule.. and canceled.
Like I said originally, I would expect Citibank to take the miles back.. it'
s not my duty to call AA.. and asking please deduct my mileage by so and so.
. because of my return/canceled flight.
and I have way enough miles in my account to cover all these returns.
no problem with that.
Swear that's the story. | | | n*******y
发帖数: 3337 | 11 Mar 9, 14, 1:31 pm #65
EagleTX
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 9
I did email JC and asked her if we could have a conf call, here answer:
I understand your desire to speak over the phone regarding this matter.
Given the nature of this investigation, it is necessary that an accurate,
written record of our communication be created. Because of this need, I have
channeled our discussions through email. Please understand that our
conversations must be limited to email correspondence at this time.
AAdvantage miles are not earned for refunded goods/services. Please provide
proof of purchase and payment for the points earned in your account from
June 21, 2012 to present date associated with your Citi AAdvantage card
purchases.
My assumption too is that my 100K$ canceled flights (during the 2 years 2012
, 2013) raised the red flag.
(again she didn't share anything!! Only we see some suspicious activity and
went straight up on closing my account!)
I haven't replied yet to her email on Friday announcing my account closure.
I dont know if I should.. or if it will lead to anywhere... or just try the
customer relation route.. and take it from there? | z*****4
发帖数: 835 | 12 这个明显就是自己的问题了，出来混迟早要还的。
版上以前用过这个trick的人也都注意了，攒点不是什么好习惯。
..
【在 n*******y 的大作中提到】
: Mar 9, 14, 1:31 pm #65
: EagleTX
: Join Date: Mar 2014
: Posts: 9
:
: I did email JC and asked her if we could have a conf call, here answer:
: I understand your desire to speak over the phone regarding this matter.
: Given the nature of this investigation, it is necessary that an accurate,
: written record of our communication be created. Because of this need, I have
: channeled our discussions through email. Please understand that our
| g******t
发帖数: 11249 | 13 买啥能弄10万块？
【在 b*****e 的大作中提到】
: 退10万块，难怪让人搞，有啥好冤的
:
: nothing,
| n*******y
发帖数: 3337 | 14 其实不多啊，只是多拿10万-20万AA点，相当于开一，二张卡，并马上关掉。
【在 b*****e 的大作中提到】
: 退10万块，难怪让人搞，有啥好冤的
:
: nothing,
| k***e
发帖数: 7933 | 15 赞点没问题吧。就是不要这种办法（退货）占便宜
【在 z*****4 的大作中提到】
: 这个明显就是自己的问题了，出来混迟早要还的。
: 版上以前用过这个trick的人也都注意了，攒点不是什么好习惯。
:
: ..
| e******e
发帖数: 10121 | 16 还有一个关键，退的是什么。要是一个大件也还好。
要是分期分批退了一堆裤衩达$10万。。。。哈哈。。。。 | l**y
发帖数: 2103 | 17 买了几张fully refundable business class 机票，差不多10万块钱，然后退掉。
没看出来怎么abuse 啊，貌似也不是机票退掉立刻关卡，miles debit 也的确应该是
citi 去做的吧？谁还有工夫去make sure 自己的退货被debit miles？发现没有debit
也只是偷着乐吧？除非那个人是看到一个漏洞，不停的买了退，买了退。
【在 e******e 的大作中提到】
: 还有一个关键，退的是什么。要是一个大件也还好。
: 要是分期分批退了一堆裤衩达$10万。。。。哈哈。。。。
| n*******y
发帖数: 3337 | 18 我估计退货前，他就把ＣＩＴＩ ＣＡＲＤ给关了，这样ＣＩＴＩ不知道他退货。
【在 c*****a 的大作中提到】
: citi好像历来就是这样的，退货收回mile很严格的
| k***e
发帖数: 7933 | 19 citi都不知道的话那钱退哪里去了？
【在 n*******y 的大作中提到】
: 我估计退货前，他就把ＣＩＴＩ ＣＡＲＤ给关了，这样ＣＩＴＩ不知道他退货。
| l**y
发帖数: 2103 | 20 感觉这个家伙没有把故事讲完整。
【在 n*******y 的大作中提到】
: 我估计退货前，他就把ＣＩＴＩ ＣＡＲＤ给关了，这样ＣＩＴＩ不知道他退货。
| | | c**2
发帖数: 8496 | 21 There were stories that people bragged buying full fare fc/business class
future AA tickets (easily worth tens of thousand USD) to meet spending
requirement, then closed citi AA cc account, then refund AA tickets. I
guess this person is one of those people. I would consider this serious
abuser from AA 's perspective --because of good reason to believe that he
had no intention to fly that full fare fully refundable ticket, so it was
fraudulent. | e******e
发帖数: 10121 | 22 这是信用卡设置的弊端。点数不应该马上可以POST到航空公司，因为可以退货。
不清楚CITI AA卡这种直接转的，像AMEX这些自己转的信用卡公司没有办法把点数再改
过来。
我估计是因为航空里程扣不回来了所以关卡。而且估计这个人有非常明显的故意动机。
这种UNUSUAL ACTIVITY关卡没啥奇怪的。
debit
【在 l**y 的大作中提到】
: 买了几张fully refundable business class 机票，差不多10万块钱，然后退掉。
: 没看出来怎么abuse 啊，貌似也不是机票退掉立刻关卡，miles debit 也的确应该是
: citi 去做的吧？谁还有工夫去make sure 自己的退货被debit miles？发现没有debit
: 也只是偷着乐吧？除非那个人是看到一个漏洞，不停的买了退，买了退。
| d******a
发帖数: 3976 | 23 活该，没底线。这种会天怒人怨的，我是信用卡公司也这么干
【在 n*******y 的大作中提到】
: Mar 8, 14, 8:27 pm #1
: EagleTX
: Join Date: Mar 2014
: Posts: 9
:
: Angry Appealing AAdvantage Account Closure
: .
: Hello All,
: I really need your help here. I'm feeling desperate!!
: I've been a great American Airlines customer (have accumulated over 2
| l***1
发帖数: 1223 | 24 这个退货的该和当月买的东西相互抵消呀，那AA报告的不就是对的里程了吗？除非退了
货，当月没买东西可以抵消的，然后又关了卡，那是不是CITI还给他要CUT支票啊。
debit
【在 l**y 的大作中提到】
: 买了几张fully refundable business class 机票，差不多10万块钱，然后退掉。
: 没看出来怎么abuse 啊，貌似也不是机票退掉立刻关卡，miles debit 也的确应该是
: citi 去做的吧？谁还有工夫去make sure 自己的退货被debit miles？发现没有debit
: 也只是偷着乐吧？除非那个人是看到一个漏洞，不停的买了退，买了退。
| d**j
发帖数: 5290 | 25 你们都理解错了，这个人怎么样搞无所谓，问题是如果搞多了abuse了citi, AA直接杀
账户。 | t*********r
发帖数: 2431 | 26 他都AA Platinum了干嘛买那么多fully refundable business啊
这也去装无辜
debit
【在 l**y 的大作中提到】
: 买了几张fully refundable business class 机票，差不多10万块钱，然后退掉。
: 没看出来怎么abuse 啊，貌似也不是机票退掉立刻关卡，miles debit 也的确应该是
: citi 去做的吧？谁还有工夫去make sure 自己的退货被debit miles？发现没有debit
: 也只是偷着乐吧？除非那个人是看到一个漏洞，不停的买了退，买了退。
| c**2
发帖数: 8496 | 27 the title should be changed to "买fully refundable机票拿到点数马上关卡 机票
退掉 的要小心啊"
Other refund may be less problematic?
And I don't even think the point is about"拿到点数马上关卡" | c*****a
发帖数: 342 | 28 记得好像之前有人通过AA eshopping mall买东西拿点数再退好像也会被收回mile，但
是应该没有关账号这么严重，这个帖子本来就没有参考价值啊，LZ的标题有点危言耸听
了，版上大部分人MS的方法都还是安全的
【在 c**2 的大作中提到】
: the title should be changed to "买fully refundable机票拿到点数马上关卡 机票
: 退掉 的要小心啊"
: Other refund may be less problematic?
: And I don't even think the point is about"拿到点数马上关卡"
| n********9
发帖数: 2835 | | m*****a
发帖数: 2609 | 30 是的，newjersey，提醒人是好的，但是你的论据没有说服力啊。你举的例子是abuse，
而大家很多都是VR什么的manufactured spending，没有退货的问题，所以没事。这个
thread的title有点misleading。
【在 c*****a 的大作中提到】
: 记得好像之前有人通过AA eshopping mall买东西拿点数再退好像也会被收回mile，但
: 是应该没有关账号这么严重，这个帖子本来就没有参考价值啊，LZ的标题有点危言耸听
: 了，版上大部分人MS的方法都还是安全的
| | | k***e
发帖数: 7933 | 31 我觉得就是退货的关系，而且大额。
【在 c**2 的大作中提到】
: the title should be changed to "买fully refundable机票拿到点数马上关卡 机票
: 退掉 的要小心啊"
: Other refund may be less problematic?
: And I don't even think the point is about"拿到点数马上关卡"
|
|
