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Military版 - 泰坦尼克上的中国人和日本人
相关主题
泰坦尼克事故调查,有关中国水手的英文原始记录泰坦尼克号的英国人和美国人的区别!
以后万一亲身碰到类似菲人质事件,做好的办法就是自救===明尼苏达的体育场的顶也塌了(视频)===
清朝那么虚弱,美国都只是租界中国土地,没有占领中国。毛泽东怎么这么傻,认为 美国会入侵北朝鲜入侵中国东北。老毛脑子进水了??精确到分钟的泰坦尼克沉没过程全记录(小清新者勿入)
菲律宾公知体及小将Maryland Parking Garage Collapse: One Dead, Another Injured
米帝飞机直接为菲律宾情报侦察我弟也屎特厚了:New Orleans 在建高楼突然倒塌
111名中国学生受困英国游艇“处变不惊”,高唱卡拉OK中获救新建万吨潜艇支援舰
Even Gordon Chang supports Liu Xiaobo to win已有约12000名中国公民撤离利比亚
30岁的黑洞关于BBC中文
相关话题的讨论汇总
话题: were话题: mr话题: four话题: he话题: chinamen
进入Military版参与讨论
1 (共1页)
t*c
发帖数: 6929
1
泰坦尼克号记载有六位中国人和一位日本人,
似乎全都获救了。
这六位中国人来自香港,是泰坦尼克上的机房
锅炉工,每天工作十四个小时,但住三等舱房。
一位日本人是日本铁道部的官员,住二等舱。
但泰坦尼克快要沉没时,有四位中国人分别设法躲进
救生船座位底下,当救生船离开时才被发现。而一位
中国人冒险跳入载有35名妇女即将放下的救生船,
被船员发现,本要开枪,又怕伤及妇女,最终得以逃生。
另一位中国人抓住木板落水昏迷,被快要离开
的救生船救起,苏醒后极力划动救生船带领大家
离开沉船漩涡,被同船者称为英雄。
有意思的是那位日本人被船员作证跳入妇女救生船而
受到广泛责难,但后来发现日本人是坐进十号救生船,
是座位未满,允许登船的两位男士之一。而作证的人
来自十三号救生船,恰恰是我们同胞跳入的那只。可能
日本人背了黑锅,不过那时日本舆论对日本人活着
回来极为愤怒,认为活着回来就是丢了国家的脸,不管
什么原因。
我们上海申报,当时也对中国同胞的行为严厉指责,
不过中国广泛的舆论觉得人要逃命天经地义的事。
当时,英美媒体对此事有过很多报道,并指责亚洲人
低劣和道德沦丧,反倒亨利福特出来辩解,说中国人是
男人为主的社会,没有男人,女人孩子无法生存,无关
道德,只是不同的民族文化。
后来,那六个中国人未被获准进入纽约,而是转船去了
古巴。
M****u
发帖数: 17708
2
港灿素质低下

【在 t*c 的大作中提到】
: 泰坦尼克号记载有六位中国人和一位日本人,
: 似乎全都获救了。
: 这六位中国人来自香港,是泰坦尼克上的机房
: 锅炉工,每天工作十四个小时,但住三等舱房。
: 一位日本人是日本铁道部的官员,住二等舱。
: 但泰坦尼克快要沉没时,有四位中国人分别设法躲进
: 救生船座位底下,当救生船离开时才被发现。而一位
: 中国人冒险跳入载有35名妇女即将放下的救生船,
: 被船员发现,本要开枪,又怕伤及妇女,最终得以逃生。
: 另一位中国人抓住木板落水昏迷,被快要离开

s*******e
发帖数: 1002
3
http://data.jfdaily.com/a/7777876.htm
都散了吧

【在 t*c 的大作中提到】
: 泰坦尼克号记载有六位中国人和一位日本人,
: 似乎全都获救了。
: 这六位中国人来自香港,是泰坦尼克上的机房
: 锅炉工,每天工作十四个小时,但住三等舱房。
: 一位日本人是日本铁道部的官员,住二等舱。
: 但泰坦尼克快要沉没时,有四位中国人分别设法躲进
: 救生船座位底下,当救生船离开时才被发现。而一位
: 中国人冒险跳入载有35名妇女即将放下的救生船,
: 被船员发现,本要开枪,又怕伤及妇女,最终得以逃生。
: 另一位中国人抓住木板落水昏迷,被快要离开

y*d
发帖数: 2226
4
不让入境是因为排华法案吧?
f**p
发帖数: 349
5
造谣,自恨,这种习惯可不好!

【在 t*c 的大作中提到】
: 泰坦尼克号记载有六位中国人和一位日本人,
: 似乎全都获救了。
: 这六位中国人来自香港,是泰坦尼克上的机房
: 锅炉工,每天工作十四个小时,但住三等舱房。
: 一位日本人是日本铁道部的官员,住二等舱。
: 但泰坦尼克快要沉没时,有四位中国人分别设法躲进
: 救生船座位底下,当救生船离开时才被发现。而一位
: 中国人冒险跳入载有35名妇女即将放下的救生船,
: 被船员发现,本要开枪,又怕伤及妇女,最终得以逃生。
: 另一位中国人抓住木板落水昏迷,被快要离开

G*******n
发帖数: 6889
6
造谣的都是拿钱发文死全家的
https://docs.google.com/document/d/
1kD8TBlEGOGUhwTK1OtfOeTXgvJPoXCuEZpZt8sAY5l0

【在 f**p 的大作中提到】
: 造谣,自恨,这种习惯可不好!
l*******1
发帖数: 16217
7
海难发生后,泰坦尼克号的左舷执行的是“只准妇孺进艇”的命令,而右舷则是“妇
孺优先”,即救生艇附近看不到妇孺时,可以让男子入艇。那8名华人乘客一直等候在
右舷甲板上,直到最后时刻,救生艇附近已看不到妇女和儿童,在得到船员允许后,其
中一人进入了13号标准救生艇,4人进入C号折叠救生艇;余下的3人随下沉的泰坦尼克
号落水,其中两人溺亡,另一人抓住一块漂浮在海面的大木板,一个小时后被返回救援
的14号救生艇救起。
以史料还原的“中国佬”面貌,与卡梅隆在电影中所呈现的华人面孔高度一致。他
们的表现非但毫不卑劣,反而是值得敬重的。
l*******1
发帖数: 16217
8
是“追叙历史”,还是在“发明历史”?
在翻阅报刊的过程中,程巍发现,炮制这8名华人乘客“卑劣逃生经历”的,正是
那些一开始就逃离泰坦尼克号的头等舱男女乘客。要知道,最早离开泰坦尼克号的那7
只救生艇里坐着的,几乎全是头等舱男女乘客,这些救生艇大多空了一半座位,并且自
始至终拒绝返回救人。
真相为何扭曲至此?程巍认为,当某些人“追叙历史”时,实际上却是在“发明历
史”,这种“发明”背后,常常藏着更深的动因。
一方面,当时的美国正在与大英帝国争夺世界霸主地位,急需证明自己继承了欧洲
的“骑士精神”,以回应欧洲人对美国过分商业化的指责,泰坦尼克号的悲壮叙事可以
证明:美国人的高尚品德并没被金钱所腐蚀,美国可以承担起世界的责任。而为了让这
些英雄形象显得更高大,必须有几个邪恶、渺小、卑劣的灵魂陪衬。
另一方面,1912年是美国排华运动甚嚣尘上的时刻。
1860年代末,美国为修筑翻山越岭的太平洋铁路,需要大量劳工,以自然法中人拥
有“自由迁徙的权利”为由,要求中国政府向美国输出华工。到1870年代,太平洋铁路
提前竣工,美国不再需要这些华工,加上当时从欧洲来的大量贫民要争夺华工的工作机
会,于是,为排斥和驱逐华工,美国转而制造华人是“劣等种族”的谬论。当时的美国
新闻业太需要这类能证明中国人“种族卑劣性”的故事,以支持美国《排华法案》的合
法性。
l*******1
发帖数: 16217
9
需要警醒的不仅仅是对谣言的轻信
引起程巍警觉的是,这则在美国迅速流传的谣言不仅很快传播至中国,且立即被当
作“国民劣根性”的又一证据,反复被写入报刊乃至教科书。
“我第一次在美国报刊上看到它时,竟然没有意识到报道中明显违反常识和逻辑的
地方,自然而然地把它作为 ‘中国国民性’的一个例证。”程巍之所以耗费巨大精力
,重返历史现场,还原真相,更重要的原因是对自己的这种“自然而然”所感到的震惊
和愧疚。
尽管1949年之后民国教科书被废除;但人们并没有完全停止强化晚清以来所建构的
“国民劣根性”叙事,它早已深深打入人们的集体无意识。
在程巍看来,需要警醒的不仅仅是对谣言的轻信,更是这种“集体无意识”。“它
就像一个不必经由理性和常识来监控的自动装置。我们只有发现这种‘集体无意识’,
将其作为一个重要的问题来对待时,才会摆脱错误的认识框架,并从知识谱系上追究其
形成史。”
时至今日,盲目跟随西方殖民主义的种族性、民族性言论,“不惮以最坏的恶意来
推测中国人”,这种对自我的误解已经积蕴了太多民族自卑感,它的“离心力”正在掏
空我们的文化认同感。而这也是程巍一次次“穿越”回泰坦尼克号海难那个重要历史时
刻的深层原因——“要找准中国今天与未来在世界的位置,就必须从源头上认清自我。
当我们回顾历史时,不能一味地自我夸大或自我贬损,而要有客观、独立的思考。”
B********n
发帖数: 7009
10
尼玛,所以中国人有13亿,有些民族都快灭绝了
相关主题
111名中国学生受困英国游艇“处变不惊”,高唱卡拉OK中获救泰坦尼克号的英国人和美国人的区别!
Even Gordon Chang supports Liu Xiaobo to win===明尼苏达的体育场的顶也塌了(视频)===
30岁的黑洞精确到分钟的泰坦尼克沉没过程全记录(小清新者勿入)
进入Military版参与讨论
h*h
发帖数: 27852
11
这个公案值得翻

7

【在 l*******1 的大作中提到】
: 需要警醒的不仅仅是对谣言的轻信
: 引起程巍警觉的是,这则在美国迅速流传的谣言不仅很快传播至中国,且立即被当
: 作“国民劣根性”的又一证据,反复被写入报刊乃至教科书。
: “我第一次在美国报刊上看到它时,竟然没有意识到报道中明显违反常识和逻辑的
: 地方,自然而然地把它作为 ‘中国国民性’的一个例证。”程巍之所以耗费巨大精力
: ,重返历史现场,还原真相,更重要的原因是对自己的这种“自然而然”所感到的震惊
: 和愧疚。
: 尽管1949年之后民国教科书被废除;但人们并没有完全停止强化晚清以来所建构的
: “国民劣根性”叙事,它早已深深打入人们的集体无意识。
: 在程巍看来,需要警醒的不仅仅是对谣言的轻信,更是这种“集体无意识”。“它

k**0
发帖数: 19737
12
真是好文章
当国人不再妄自菲薄的时候, 中国就站起来了

【在 s*******e 的大作中提到】
: http://data.jfdaily.com/a/7777876.htm
: 都散了吧

t*c
发帖数: 6929
13
事实到底如何,大家可以争议。
那个日本人的后裔好像在90年代
还在媒体上为他们祖先澄清,
说逃跑的是中国人,还列举了当时
美国有关船难的听政纪录。
当然,我们也在反驳。

【在 k**0 的大作中提到】
: 真是好文章
: 当国人不再妄自菲薄的时候, 中国就站起来了

t*c
发帖数: 6929
14
事实到底如何,大家可以争议。
那个日本人的后裔好像在90年代
还在媒体上为他们祖先澄清,
说逃跑的是中国人,还列举了当时
美国有关船难的听政纪录。
当然,我们也在反驳。

【在 k**0 的大作中提到】
: 真是好文章
: 当国人不再妄自菲薄的时候, 中国就站起来了

t*c
发帖数: 6929
15
泰坦尼克事故调查有关中国水手的听证纪录:
There were eight Chinese passengers aboard Titanic, all of them sailors who
found themselves out of work because of the coal strike in Britain.
All were reassigned to a Donald Line freighter, Annetta, which was docked in
New York and chartered by the Atlantic Fruit Company to sail to Cuba. From
there, the sailors hoped to make their way back to Hong Kong.
Their names vary on a number of manifests, but U.S. Immigration record them
as Ah Lam (or Ali Lam), Len Lam, Bing Lee (or Lee Bing), Fang Lang, Chip
Chang (or Chang Chip) , Foo Cheang (or Choong Foo), and Ling Hee. They all
travelled on a single ticket, number 1601 (£59, 9s, 11d).
The Lams were Cantonese; the others were British subjects from Hong Kong.
Bing Lee was married, all the others were single. Asians, even if they
travelled on British passports, were marginalized in Europe and North
America in 1912. They were tolerated but not accepted in society and would
have been shunned and not have been able to socialize with other steerage
passengers aboard Titanic.
Perhaps because they were sailors and knew the inner workings of a ship, all
of them made it into the lifeboats, but only six survived. According to one
newspaper, the two who died, Len Lam and Ling Lee, hid themselves under the
slats in the lifeboat and were “crushed to death by the weight of the
other passengers sitting on top of them. ” In fact, they probably died of
hypothermia.
There is disagreement over which boats they escaped in. Four of the men are
thought to have escaped in Collapsible C, one possibly in lifeboat 13 and
the sixth was picked up from the water by the sailors in lifeboat 14.
Re: Collapsible C.
According to Mrs Frank Goldsmith some of the Chinese sailors were discovered
when Murdoch and Wilde attempted to prevent a rush on Collapsible C. Four
of the Chinese sailors allegedly refused to get out of the boat and hid down
among the women passengers; Mrs Goldsmith said that the officer didn't dare
fire at them for fear of hitting the women, so the boat was eventually
lowered away with four of the Chinese sailors still aboard.
Second Officer: Charles Lightoller:
Board of Trade Inquiry
14001 Ultimately she was filled with women, the collapsible boat?
Yes, I believe it was a new boat, where a couple of Phillipinos or Chinese
got in, they stowed away under the thwarts or something. But for that there
were no men except crew - except the men I ordered in.
Quartermaster George Rowe and Bruce Ismay testified that the men were only
discovered after the boat had been lowered.
Senate Inquiry
Senator BURTON. The passengers, aside from your sailors, were all women and
children?
Mr. ROWE. Except Mr. Ismay and another gentleman. When daylight broke, we
found four men, Chinamen, I think they were, or Filipinos.
Senator BURTON. Were those additional to the 39?
Mr. ROWE. Yes, sir.
Senator BURTON. All the rest of the 39 were women and children, except two,
Mr. Ismay and another gentleman?
Mr. ROWE. Yes, sir.
Senator BURTON. When day broke, you found four Chinamen or Filipinos under
the seats?
Mr. ROWE. Not under the seats then, sir. They came up between the seats.
Board of Trade Inquiry
17646. And the rest of the people were what?
What I thought were women and children.
17647. Did they prove to be women and children? –
No, not at daybreak.
17648. Why? Tell us about that? -
I found four Chinamen aboard.
17649. Where were they? –
I could not see at the time.
17650. They were in the boat somewhere? -
They were in there at daybreak.
17651. How they got in you do not know, I suppose? -
No.
17652. (The Commissioner.) Were they all women and children, with the
exception of three Chinamen? -
Four Chinamen and Mr. Ismay and Mr. Carter.
17653. I have two male passengers. Were the rest all women and children with
the exception of the crew and the four Chinamen?
And the two gentlemen.
First Class Passenger: J. Bruce Ismay
Senate Inquiry.
Senator FLETCHER. How many men were in the boat?
Mr. ISMAY. Three - four. We found four Chinamen stowed away under the
thwarts after we got away. I think they were Filipinos, perhaps. There were
four of them.
Board of Trade Inquiry.
18563.Am I right, then, in this, that there were women and children and some
members of the crew to man the boat and two passengers, yourself and Mr.
Carter?
Yes, and four Chinamen were in the boat.
18564.Four Chinamen who, we have heard, were discovered after the boat was
lowered?
Yes.
Re: Lifeboat 13
Saloon Steward: Frederick Dent Ray.
Senate Inquiry.
Senator SMITH. I would like to know how many first-class male passengers
there were.
Mr. RAY. I could not say, sir. There was one Japanese. I remember a Japanese
, very well, being there. I have no idea, because I could not discriminate
second from third class passengers.
Re: Lifeboat 14
One of the other sailors, identity not definitely established but sometimes
listed as Fang Lang, was later found, lashed to a door or board by Officer
Lowe when he took lifeboat 14 back to pick up survivors from the water. This
fact was verified by Saloon Steward: George Frederick Crowe:
Senate Inquiry.
Mr. CROWE. ... also a Japanese or Chinese young fellow that we picked up on
top of some of the wreckage - it might have been a sideboard or table - that
was floating around...
Second Class Passenger: Charlotte Collyer:
A little further on, we saw a floating door that must have been torn loose
when the ship went down. Lying upon it, face downward, was a small Japanese.
He had lashed himself with a rope to his frail raft, using the broken
hinges to make the knots secure. As far as we could see, he was dead. The
sea washed over him every time the door bobbed up and down, and he was
frozen stiff. He did not answer when he was hailed, and the officer
hesitated about trying to save him.
"What's the use?" said Mr. Lowe. He's dead, likely, and if he isn't there's
others better worth saving than a Jap!"
He had actually turned our boat around; but he changed his mind and went
back. The Japanese was hauled on board, and one of the women rubbed his
chest, while others chafed his hands and feet. In less time than it takes to
tell, he opened his eyes. He spoke to us in his own tongue; then, seeing
that we did not understand, he struggled to his feet, stretched his arms
above his head, stamped his feet, and in five minutes or so had almost
recovered his strength. One of the sailors near to him was so tired that he
could hardly pull his oar. The Japanese bustled over, pushed him from his
seat, took the oar and worked like a hero until we were finally picked up. I
saw Mr. Lowe watching him in open-mouthed surprise.
"By Jove!" muttered the officer. "I'm ashamed of what I said about the
little blighter. I'd save the likes o' him six times over, if I got the
chance."
Once the six survivors arrived in New York, they were detained, “placed
under guard by U.S. Immigration officers,” and immediately escorted to the
Annetta, which sailed the next day for Cuba. Four of the survivors later
filed damage claims with the White Star Line: Chip Chang for $177, Fang Lang
, for $137, and Bing Lee $99.34 and Ling Lee’s wife filed for $91.05 for
the loss of her husband,

【在 t*c 的大作中提到】
: 泰坦尼克号记载有六位中国人和一位日本人,
: 似乎全都获救了。
: 这六位中国人来自香港,是泰坦尼克上的机房
: 锅炉工,每天工作十四个小时,但住三等舱房。
: 一位日本人是日本铁道部的官员,住二等舱。
: 但泰坦尼克快要沉没时,有四位中国人分别设法躲进
: 救生船座位底下,当救生船离开时才被发现。而一位
: 中国人冒险跳入载有35名妇女即将放下的救生船,
: 被船员发现,本要开枪,又怕伤及妇女,最终得以逃生。
: 另一位中国人抓住木板落水昏迷,被快要离开

t*c
发帖数: 6929
16
不要满嘴污言秽语,无助事实澄清。

【在 G*******n 的大作中提到】
: 造谣的都是拿钱发文死全家的
: https://docs.google.com/document/d/
: 1kD8TBlEGOGUhwTK1OtfOeTXgvJPoXCuEZpZt8sAY5l0

G*******n
发帖数: 6889
17
佐证都摆在那里,拿钱发造谣文的死全家
https://docs.google.com/document/d/
1kD8TBlEGOGUhwTK1OtfOeTXgvJPoXCuEZpZt8sAY5l0

【在 t*c 的大作中提到】
: 不要满嘴污言秽语,无助事实澄清。
t*c
发帖数: 6929
18
碰到无赖了。

【在 G*******n 的大作中提到】
: 佐证都摆在那里,拿钱发造谣文的死全家
: https://docs.google.com/document/d/
: 1kD8TBlEGOGUhwTK1OtfOeTXgvJPoXCuEZpZt8sAY5l0

G*******n
发帖数: 6889
19
傻逼居然连英文都不识,你主子的机器人就要淘汰你手工发中文谣言贴了
https://docs.google.com/document/d/
1kD8TBlEGOGUhwTK1OtfOeTXgvJPoXCuEZpZt8sAY5l0

【在 t*c 的大作中提到】
: 碰到无赖了。
l*******1
发帖数: 16217
20
如果刘邦或是曹操在船上,你猜他们会如何做
一次出征,刘邦被困,车夫驾车带刘邦和其子女突围,眼看马车将要被追上,刘邦为减
轻车体重量而逃命,将儿女扔下马车。
1 (共1页)
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