w*********r
发帖数: 2192 | 1 【 以下文字转载自 WaterWorld 讨论区 】
发信人: wisdomlover (一片冰心在玉壶), 信区: WaterWorld
标 题: 孙维被曝光的邮件可否作为案件重启的契机？
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Thu May 16 09:27:13 2013, 美东)
1. 孙维被曝光的邮件， 里面涉及到要相关人员
不要透露消息，要准备一个共同的声明，
对一个还未破的案件， 这样是否已经涉嫌
OBSTRUCTION of Justice?
2. 孙维被曝光的邮件， 暴露同学中可能存在知情者，
可能能为侦破打开新的突破口
3. 可否对北京市公安局举报黑客的这些邮件。 |
n*****n
发帖数: 1634 | 2 公安局现在的德行就是，有本事自己去杀西门庆吧，我这里永远证据不足 |
w*********r
发帖数: 2192 | 3 如果大家去举报这个线索，
如果 DRAW ENOUGH ATTENTION, 说不定有用。
而且我观察媒体对这些信件基本没有COVER,
这些信件可能是突破口，我从这些信件看到
有别的同学知情的可能。警方不应IGNORE这些新的线索。
【在 n*****n 的大作中提到】
: 公安局现在的德行就是，有本事自己去杀西门庆吧，我这里永远证据不足
|
x****u
发帖数: 12955 | 4
Did they say they are going to lie, or just carefully word their response to?
Lying is obstruction of justice, careful construct of response is only
prudent action in a criminal case.
【在 w*********r 的大作中提到】
: 如果大家去举报这个线索，
: 如果 DRAW ENOUGH ATTENTION, 说不定有用。
: 而且我观察媒体对这些信件基本没有COVER,
: 这些信件可能是突破口，我从这些信件看到
: 有别的同学知情的可能。警方不应IGNORE这些新的线索。
|
k*******2
发帖数: 1429 | 5 Not telling the truth is also obstruction of justice
to?
【在 x****u 的大作中提到】
:
: Did they say they are going to lie, or just carefully word their response to?
: Lying is obstruction of justice, careful construct of response is only
: prudent action in a criminal case.
|
x****u
发帖数: 12955 | 6
Careful construction of response is not lying. If you don't know the
difference, then it just means you have no idea how legal system works.
【在 k*******2 的大作中提到】
: Not telling the truth is also obstruction of justice
:
: to?
|
k*******2
发帖数: 1429 | 7 Don't you read? I am not saying they are lying, I am saying they are not
telling the truth, which means they know the truth but not telling it. and
That is obstruction of justice too.
【在 x****u 的大作中提到】
:
: Careful construction of response is not lying. If you don't know the
: difference, then it just means you have no idea how legal system works.
|
x****u
发帖数: 12955 | 8
No it's not. A person is under no obligation to offer knowledge to police.
Remaining silent is your right.
【在 k*******2 的大作中提到】
: Don't you read? I am not saying they are lying, I am saying they are not
: telling the truth, which means they know the truth but not telling it. and
: That is obstruction of justice too.
|
k*******2
发帖数: 1429 | 9 I am not saying they commit the Crime of Obstruction of Justice. I am saying
the action that they are not telling the truth result in the delay or
obstacles in jurisdictions and investigation of the crime, it is an action
that obstruct the justice.
By the way, if they are not involved in the crime and believe that SW is not
the poisoner, why the hell they want to remain silence. Don't they want to
find the real criminal so that they can clear SW of suspicious completely?
.
【在 x****u 的大作中提到】
:
: No it's not. A person is under no obligation to offer knowledge to police.
: Remaining silent is your right.
|
w*********r
发帖数: 42116 | 10 已经招供。
可惜没逼供。
应该用测谎。
【在 k*******2 的大作中提到】
: Not telling the truth is also obstruction of justice
:
: to?
|
|
|
x****u
发帖数: 12955 | 11
saying
not
to
No it's not. If it's everybody's right to remain silent, then you can't
fault them for utilizing that right. It's also everybody's right to
carefully choose their words in response to police questioning to avoid
creating the wrong impression. Her fear stated in that letter was realized,
as everything she did or said had been twisted as "proof" of her guilt. If
she made a comment, it's to cover things up. If she stop making comments,
then it's because she had something to hide. If she ask for lie detector
test, it's because she knew it's unreliable. If she didn't ask for lie
detector test, then it's because she don't want to be caught in a lie. etc,
etc.
【在 k*******2 的大作中提到】
: I am not saying they commit the Crime of Obstruction of Justice. I am saying
: the action that they are not telling the truth result in the delay or
: obstacles in jurisdictions and investigation of the crime, it is an action
: that obstruct the justice.
: By the way, if they are not involved in the crime and believe that SW is not
: the poisoner, why the hell they want to remain silence. Don't they want to
: find the real criminal so that they can clear SW of suspicious completely?
:
: .
|
k*******2
发帖数: 1429 | 12 Again, I am not saying it is illegal for them to remain silence, I am saying
their action of remain silence may result in the delay of finding the real
criminal. Also if they knew something and may help the police finding the
real criminal to clear SW out of suspicious, why the hell hadn't they done
it?
realized,
If
,
【在 x****u 的大作中提到】
:
: saying
: not
: to
: No it's not. If it's everybody's right to remain silent, then you can't
: fault them for utilizing that right. It's also everybody's right to
: carefully choose their words in response to police questioning to avoid
: creating the wrong impression. Her fear stated in that letter was realized,
: as everything she did or said had been twisted as "proof" of her guilt. If
: she made a comment, it's to cover things up. If she stop making comments,
|
x****u
发帖数: 12955 | 13
saying
real
Again, carefully choosing how you speak to the police is NOT LYING. In fact
, creating the wrong impression might actually throw the police off the
right track.
Although, judging by the available evidence about how they conducted the
investigation, I doubt the police ever had any hope of getting on the right
track.
【在 k*******2 的大作中提到】
: Again, I am not saying it is illegal for them to remain silence, I am saying
: their action of remain silence may result in the delay of finding the real
: criminal. Also if they knew something and may help the police finding the
: real criminal to clear SW out of suspicious, why the hell hadn't they done
: it?
:
: realized,
: If
: ,
|
n*****n
发帖数: 1634 | 14 你能否解释一下
为啥一直吃屎的屎壳郎有一天本着一块肉去了？
中国的公安局，注意是中国的，一直都是重口供的，并且有许多许多神奇的手段来吓唬
吓唬嫌疑人，得到口供。
为啥这个案子就不用呢，
如果能说清楚这点，我们还是愿意相信公安局的，甚至是中国的。
realized,
If
,
【在 x****u 的大作中提到】
:
: saying
: real
: Again, carefully choosing how you speak to the police is NOT LYING. In fact
: , creating the wrong impression might actually throw the police off the
: right track.
: Although, judging by the available evidence about how they conducted the
: investigation, I doubt the police ever had any hope of getting on the right
: track.
|
k*******2
发帖数: 1429 | 15 OMG, why don't you read. I am not saying they are lying, I am saying they
may hide something they know and not willing to unveil it to the police or
public.
Talking about "creating the wrong impression might actually throw the police
off the right track" , They were doing that which you can find in the
emails. In their email they were talking about how to collaborate in
response to the web posts. SW even asked other girls to provide information
about ZL's late back to the dome at night.
fact
right
【在 x****u 的大作中提到】
:
: saying
: real
: Again, carefully choosing how you speak to the police is NOT LYING. In fact
: , creating the wrong impression might actually throw the police off the
: right track.
: Although, judging by the available evidence about how they conducted the
: investigation, I doubt the police ever had any hope of getting on the right
: track.
|
x****u
发帖数: 12955 | 16
One more time. Carefully choosing how to speak to police or public does not
mean they are hiding anything. It's only a prudent response in the
environment that exists.
Just because you want them to speak in a certain way, does not mean they
have any obligation to do so. And it certainly doesn't prove that they were
guilty of anything.
【在 k*******2 的大作中提到】
: OMG, why don't you read. I am not saying they are lying, I am saying they
: may hide something they know and not willing to unveil it to the police or
: public.
: Talking about "creating the wrong impression might actually throw the police
: off the right track" , They were doing that which you can find in the
: emails. In their email they were talking about how to collaborate in
: response to the web posts. SW even asked other girls to provide information
: about ZL's late back to the dome at night.
:
: fact
|
k*******2
发帖数: 1429 | 17 One more time, your words:
"Again, carefully choosing how you speak to the police is NOT LYING."
Did I say they were LYING?
not
were
【在 x****u 的大作中提到】
:
: One more time. Carefully choosing how to speak to police or public does not
: mean they are hiding anything. It's only a prudent response in the
: environment that exists.
: Just because you want them to speak in a certain way, does not mean they
: have any obligation to do so. And it certainly doesn't prove that they were
: guilty of anything.
|
x****u
发帖数: 12955 | 18
Now who's picking words?
【在 k*******2 的大作中提到】
: One more time, your words:
: "Again, carefully choosing how you speak to the police is NOT LYING."
: Did I say they were LYING?
:
: not
: were
|
k*******2
发帖数: 1429 | 19 You are the one can really twist people's word. Did I say they were guilty
of anything?
not
were
【在 x****u 的大作中提到】
:
: Now who's picking words?
|
k*******2
发帖数: 1429 | 20 It is not about picking the words, it is about stick to the topic making
argument logically.
Why did you respond with "carefully choosing how you speak to the police is
NOT LYING." when I had not accused them of lying at all.
【在 x****u 的大作中提到】
:
: Now who's picking words?
|
|
|
x****u
发帖数: 12955 | 21
Now, now, why get so defensive all of a sudden? Did I hit a nerve or are
you relly hiding something.
【在 k*******2 的大作中提到】
: You are the one can really twist people's word. Did I say they were guilty
: of anything?
:
: not
: were
|
k*******2
发帖数: 1429 | 22 Stop making those irrelevant comments. You still did not answer my question:
Did I say they were guilty of anything?
【在 x****u 的大作中提到】
:
: Now, now, why get so defensive all of a sudden? Did I hit a nerve or are
: you relly hiding something.
|
x****u
发帖数: 12955 | 23
question:
Well, why is the wording so important all of a sudden? I thought by your
standard, carefully choosing words must mean you are hiding something.
【在 k*******2 的大作中提到】
: Stop making those irrelevant comments. You still did not answer my question:
: Did I say they were guilty of anything?
|
k*******2
发帖数: 1429 | 24 Well, all of a sudden you can not even answer a simple question? Why it is
so difficult for you to answer that question?
Did I say they were guilty of anything?
【在 x****u 的大作中提到】
:
: question:
: Well, why is the wording so important all of a sudden? I thought by your
: standard, carefully choosing words must mean you are hiding something.
|
k*******2
发帖数: 1429 | 25 Also which part of my comments saying "carefully choosing words must mean
you are hiding something", show it to me.
"
【在 x****u 的大作中提到】
:
: question:
: Well, why is the wording so important all of a sudden? I thought by your
: standard, carefully choosing words must mean you are hiding something.
|
x****u
发帖数: 12955 | 26
Boy you are forgetful.
"OMG, why don't you read. I am not saying they are lying, I am saying they
may hide something they know and not willing to unveil it to the police or
public."
【在 k*******2 的大作中提到】
: Also which part of my comments saying "carefully choosing words must mean
: you are hiding something", show it to me.
: "
|
k*******2
发帖数: 1429 | 27 You really can not read English.
I said they MAY hide something they know, I never said "carefully choosing
words MUST mean you are hiding something"
【在 x****u 的大作中提到】
:
: Boy you are forgetful.
: "OMG, why don't you read. I am not saying they are lying, I am saying they
: may hide something they know and not willing to unveil it to the police or
: public."
|
x****u
发帖数: 12955 | 28
Again, why do you care so much about picking and choosing words all of a
sudden?
I thought you think "carefully choosing" words is a bad thing. Ok, it means
you "MAY hide something". So what exactly are you hiding?
【在 k*******2 的大作中提到】
: You really can not read English.
: I said they MAY hide something they know, I never said "carefully choosing
: words MUST mean you are hiding something"
|
k*******2
发帖数: 1429 | 29 Why you always change the topic after your mistake has been discovered? Let
's stick to the topic.
Now you have to admit that I never said "carefully choosing words MUST mean
you are hiding something". This is a fact. You just made a false allegation.
means
【在 x****u 的大作中提到】
:
: Again, why do you care so much about picking and choosing words all of a
: sudden?
: I thought you think "carefully choosing" words is a bad thing. Ok, it means
: you "MAY hide something". So what exactly are you hiding?
|
l*****i
发帖数: 20533 | 30 楼上的争执看起来说白了就是英语问题。‘not telling the truth’口语中很多时候
就是指撒谎，而不是知道真相而不说。对于后者的意思，‘keep silent’更好一点。
所以总之，遇到这种需要严格逻辑的争执，大家还是尽量用中文吧，免得引起歧义。 |
|
|
s********i
发帖数: 17328 | 31 你首先要证明黑客的邮件是有效的。不能说，网上有自称黑客者拿到据说是孙维的电子
邮件。 |
x****u
发帖数: 12955 | 32
Thus precisely demonstrating the necessity of "carefully choosing your words
", and the absurdity of some people believing that proves Sun either was
guilty or was hiding something.
As you can see, when it's his own words been questioned, he has no problem
in trying to use the precise meaning of words as defense, rather than what
was implied with the statement.
【在 l*****i 的大作中提到】
: 楼上的争执看起来说白了就是英语问题。‘not telling the truth’口语中很多时候
: 就是指撒谎，而不是知道真相而不说。对于后者的意思，‘keep silent’更好一点。
: 所以总之，遇到这种需要严格逻辑的争执，大家还是尽量用中文吧，免得引起歧义。
|
k*******2
发帖数: 1429 | 33 Come on, he was talking about "英语问题", SW and the girls speak Chinese
well.
words
【在 x****u 的大作中提到】
:
: Thus precisely demonstrating the necessity of "carefully choosing your words
: ", and the absurdity of some people believing that proves Sun either was
: guilty or was hiding something.
: As you can see, when it's his own words been questioned, he has no problem
: in trying to use the precise meaning of words as defense, rather than what
: was implied with the statement.
|
k*******2
发帖数: 1429 | 34 Never heard of "not telling the truth but not lying"?
【在 l*****i 的大作中提到】
: 楼上的争执看起来说白了就是英语问题。‘not telling the truth’口语中很多时候
: 就是指撒谎，而不是知道真相而不说。对于后者的意思，‘keep silent’更好一点。
: 所以总之，遇到这种需要严格逻辑的争执，大家还是尽量用中文吧，免得引起歧义。
|
x****u
发帖数: 12955 | 35
You would have trouble understanding Chinese if what was said doesn't fit
your narrow view.
【在 k*******2 的大作中提到】
: Come on, he was talking about "英语问题", SW and the girls speak Chinese
: well.
:
: words
|
k*******2
发帖数: 1429 | 36 Come on, change the topic again? Let's be focus and stick to the topic, get
rid of these stupid irrelevant comments about me. My narrow view and
troubled understanding of Chinese will not justify your mistake.
【在 x****u 的大作中提到】
:
: You would have trouble understanding Chinese if what was said doesn't fit
: your narrow view.
|
x****u
发帖数: 12955 | 37
get
If you want to stay on topic, then answer this question: Do you recognize
there are legitimate reasons to "carefully choose your words" when speaking
to police and public on matters as serious as a criminal investigation?
【在 k*******2 的大作中提到】
: Come on, change the topic again? Let's be focus and stick to the topic, get
: rid of these stupid irrelevant comments about me. My narrow view and
: troubled understanding of Chinese will not justify your mistake.
|
k*******2
发帖数: 1429 | 38 It is you who fail to stay on the topic and change it every time your
mistakes have been revealed. You have made so many false allegation on me
and now you want me to answer questions? Why? I don't remember you accept
that fact that you are wrong and apologize to me for those wrongful
allegations. Now all of a sudden, you want to stay on the topic and want me
to answer questions. For what? Are you out of your mind?
speaking
【在 x****u 的大作中提到】
:
: get
: If you want to stay on topic, then answer this question: Do you recognize
: there are legitimate reasons to "carefully choose your words" when speaking
: to police and public on matters as serious as a criminal investigation?
|
x****u
发帖数: 12955 | 39
me
You want me to apologize? For what, using your logic of if you choose your
words then you are hiding something?
Remember, it's you who keep on insisting Sun and her friends had something
to hide for "carefully choosing the words". You can deny it all you want
and hide behind the claim that "I only said MAYBE". But everyone know what
you are implying.
【在 k*******2 的大作中提到】
: It is you who fail to stay on the topic and change it every time your
: mistakes have been revealed. You have made so many false allegation on me
: and now you want me to answer questions? Why? I don't remember you accept
: that fact that you are wrong and apologize to me for those wrongful
: allegations. Now all of a sudden, you want to stay on the topic and want me
: to answer questions. For what? Are you out of your mind?
:
: speaking
|
k*******2
发帖数: 1429 | 40 Because I never said "carefully choosing words MUST mean you are hiding
something"."
your
what
【在 x****u 的大作中提到】
:
: me
: You want me to apologize? For what, using your logic of if you choose your
: words then you are hiding something?
: Remember, it's you who keep on insisting Sun and her friends had something
: to hide for "carefully choosing the words". You can deny it all you want
: and hide behind the claim that "I only said MAYBE". But everyone know what
: you are implying.
|
|
|
k*******2
发帖数: 1429 | 41 "But everyone know what you are implying."
How can you be so sure. You are not going to follow "innocent until proven
guilty " principle anymore?
your
what
【在 x****u 的大作中提到】
:
: me
: You want me to apologize? For what, using your logic of if you choose your
: words then you are hiding something?
: Remember, it's you who keep on insisting Sun and her friends had something
: to hide for "carefully choosing the words". You can deny it all you want
: and hide behind the claim that "I only said MAYBE". But everyone know what
: you are implying.
|
x****u
发帖数: 12955 | 42
Have you extended that curtsey to Sun Wei?
【在 k*******2 的大作中提到】
: "But everyone know what you are implying."
: How can you be so sure. You are not going to follow "innocent until proven
: guilty " principle anymore?
:
: your
: what
|
k*******2
发帖数: 1429 | 43 You are changing the topic again? Talk like a man, Don't flee. Response to
my question with an answer, don't response to question with another question
.
That sounds very stupid.
【在 x****u 的大作中提到】
:
: Have you extended that curtsey to Sun Wei?
|
x****u
发帖数: 12955 | 44
question
If you don't follow the "innocent until proven guilty" principle when
talking about other people, then don't expect it to be apply to yourself.
That just make you a hypocrite.
【在 k*******2 的大作中提到】
: You are changing the topic again? Talk like a man, Don't flee. Response to
: my question with an answer, don't response to question with another question
: .
: That sounds very stupid.
|
k*******2
发帖数: 1429 | 45 Obviously you just do not have the gut to face your mistakes. One thing keep
in mind, in this debate, it is you who did not follow "innocent until
proven guilty" principle and made many wrongful allegations on me. I pointed
out and you just can not face it.
【在 x****u 的大作中提到】
:
: question
: If you don't follow the "innocent until proven guilty" principle when
: talking about other people, then don't expect it to be apply to yourself.
: That just make you a hypocrite.
|
x****u
发帖数: 12955 | 46
keep
pointed
It's quite clear that your just can't be honest about yourself. You made an
obvious allegation that Sun and her classmates were hiding something, based
solely on the fact that they want to "carefully choose their words".
Here's your original statement:
"Don't you read? I am not saying they are lying, I am saying they are not
telling the truth, which means they know the truth but not telling it. and
That is obstruction of justice too."
Now, I don't know what kind of "truth" you are expecting out of them, but by
the definition of "obstruction of justice", it must be something that will
implicate them in some way.
Now, you haven't given them the benefit of "innocent until proven guilty",
yet turn around claiming you haven't been treated fairly because others
haven't applied "innocent until proven guilty" principle to you.
Be gone, you hypocrite. I'm done with you.
【在 k*******2 的大作中提到】
: Obviously you just do not have the gut to face your mistakes. One thing keep
: in mind, in this debate, it is you who did not follow "innocent until
: proven guilty" principle and made many wrongful allegations on me. I pointed
: out and you just can not face it.
|
w*********r
发帖数: 2192 | 47 这写需要司法介入去取证。
普通人做不到。
【在 s********i 的大作中提到】
: 你首先要证明黑客的邮件是有效的。不能说，网上有自称黑客者拿到据说是孙维的电子
: 邮件。
|
k*******2
发帖数: 1429 | 48 Again, you change the topic from your being not able to face your mistake to
my being not honest. Come on, save your effort.
an
based
by
【在 x****u 的大作中提到】
:
: keep
: pointed
: It's quite clear that your just can't be honest about yourself. You made an
: obvious allegation that Sun and her classmates were hiding something, based
: solely on the fact that they want to "carefully choose their words".
: Here's your original statement:
: "Don't you read? I am not saying they are lying, I am saying they are not
: telling the truth, which means they know the truth but not telling it. and
: That is obstruction of justice too."
|
k*******2
发帖数: 1429 | 49 OK, even for the changed topic, How are you so sure that they just want to "
carefully choose their words".
an
based
by
【在 x****u 的大作中提到】
:
: keep
: pointed
: It's quite clear that your just can't be honest about yourself. You made an
: obvious allegation that Sun and her classmates were hiding something, based
: solely on the fact that they want to "carefully choose their words".
: Here's your original statement:
: "Don't you read? I am not saying they are lying, I am saying they are not
: telling the truth, which means they know the truth but not telling it. and
: That is obstruction of justice too."
|
G**L
发帖数: 22804 | 50 中国哪有OBSTRUCTION of Justice？这都是美国的东西。但以美国的标准，黑客来的东
西都不能用
【在 w*********r 的大作中提到】
: 这写需要司法介入去取证。
: 普通人做不到。
|
|
|
x****u
发帖数: 12955 | 51
"
How can I be sure you are not the killer?
【在 k*******2 的大作中提到】
: OK, even for the changed topic, How are you so sure that they just want to "
: carefully choose their words".
:
: an
: based
: by
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