h******t
发帖数: 872 | 1 http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/10/29/david-barboza-answe
October 29, 2012, 3:52 pm1 Comment
David Barboza Answers Reader Questions on Reporting in China
By DAVID BARBOZA
The Times’s Shanghai bureau chief, David Barboza, reported last week that
close relatives of Wen Jiabao, the prime minister of China, hold billions of
dollars in hidden riches. Here are his answers to questions from readers
prompted by the article.
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Q.
As the NY Times’s Shanghai bureau chief, I assume you are a China old hand
. I’m curious about what prompted you to write this article? What was your
rationale for the timing of this article? Have you ever got a feeling of
being used? — Casablanca
A.
I have been in China since 2004, and as a correspondent for the Business
section, I have focused my reporting energies on economic, financial and
business issues. Throughout my tenure in China there has been a lot of
discussion about whether the families of high-ranking government officials
have benefited from the country’s economic transformation by receiving so-
called secret shares in corporations. This is a regular topic of dinner
conversation when bankers, lawyers and accountants gather in Shanghai and
Beijing. I had been told many times that this is typically done by using “
nominee investors,” friends or people not easily identifiable in the
shareholder records as having ties to politicians. These nominees, I was
told, often hold shares for the relatives of powerful politicians, giving
them a stake in a company.
About a year ago, as I was reporting a series of articles about China’s
state-managed economy, I decided to see if there was any evidence behind the
theory. I started looking into the business ties of several high-ranking
leaders. Anyone who knows business and finance in China knows that the
conjecture about the prime minister’s relatives was particularly persistent
, so my focus eventually narrowed on the Wen family. I knew this would be a
time-consuming and difficult task, but I was determined to answer this
question. I plowed in, and to my great surprise found that there was a
tremendous amount of information available in the public record. My
reporting did not find illegality or corruption. It did reveal the names of
Mr. Wen’s relatives hidden behind dozens of investment vehicles that few
people had ever heard of.
Q.
I almost believed all the allegations against Wen in your article (most of
the report pointing him as double-handed and heavily involved in the alleged
corruptions) until the end of your report, which indicates that he almost
divorced his wife because of her questionable business deals, and he was
willing to let history judge him. Unfortunately, most people would not
finish reading such a lengthy report, or their opinions have been formed
based on the first half of your report…. Please enlighten me and other
readers how you can justify your strong allegations first and then hinting
you may not be sure of the allegations. Let me be clear: We are all fed up
with corruptions in China (and elsewhere), but I am afraid your report may
cause confusions to the readers, and leading to much tighter government
control – meaning more corruptions and left-leaning policies in China in
the future. Hope that is not what you are wishing for. — Pacific, USA
A.
I have to disagree with your assertion that I first listed strong
allegations and then suggested I wasn’t sure about the allegations.
My goal in undertaking this story was to determine whether the relatives of
the prime minister had large stakes in Chinese companies, and to figure out
how much wealth they had accumulated. If there were clues as to how these
relatives made their fortunes, that would obviously tell us something about
how things work in China for the relatives of senior leaders.
I didn’t make allegations, I described my findings: the relatives of the
prime minister have controlled a fortune that has had a value of at least $2
.7 billion over the last decade, according to the public records I reviewed.
As with all reporting on any given subject, we did not conduct our
investigation in a vacuum. We went directly to the people whose names
appeared on the documents we tracked. We made repeated efforts to reach the
prime minister and his various relatives to give them the opportunity to
discuss the documents or to refute our findings. They did not respond or
declined to comment. So the next best option was to explore the public
record and share with our readers what the prime minister has said publicly
about corruption and whether he has sought personal gain. We also cited
documents released by the WikiLeaks organization because they also shed
light on the subject and might help the reader better understand the context
of our findings. There was an interesting State Department cable from 2007,
which refers to the prime minister and his family’s business dealings.
Q.
First of all, thanks for publish the article. It’s an eye opening. My
question is what are the implication of your article on the upcoming
communist transition on November 8, 2012? Obviously, there’s someone trying
to discredit Wen Jiabao and his reformist faction. Who would benefit the
most from your article? Is it Wu Bangguo and Zhou Yongkang’s hardline
faction?
I have a strange feeling that New York Times has become a tool in a
factional struggle between different factions of Communist party. Your
article is not exactly surprising, it’s an open secret that nobody’s hand
was clean in China’s leadership. The whole government was corrupt. It’s
impossible to be an honest government official. Only thing surprising is the
scale of corruption, I was thinking hundreds of millions before, thanks to
NY Times, now I know it’s in billions. — Jordan, Bend, Ore.
A.
My apologies. I have to confess that I’m a business correspondent and do
not cover Beijing politics, nor was the Party Congress a focus of my
investigation. So I can’t really tell you the political implications of
this article. You may have seen a comment in the article from Minxin Pei,
who is at Claremont McKenna College. He believes this will weaken Wen in the
last months of his term. There are two other experts who specialize in this
area — Li Cheng and Kenneth Lieberthal, both at the Brookings Institution
in Washington. We may be hearing more from them in the coming weeks about
the 18th Party Congress and the transition, which will involve naming the
next president, widely expected to be Xi Jinping, and a new prime minister
to replace Wen Jiabao, likely to be Li Keqiang. My colleagues in Beijing are
in the midst of a fascinating series about that transition called “
Changing of the Guard.”
Q.
It is interesting that a few days ago, several Chinese sites reported that
a thick bundle of material about Wen’s family wealth was sent to major US
news agent by unidentified parties. The speculation was that this was the
revenge for people who are sympathetic to Bo Xilai. Could Times tell us why
it decided to do this now to Wen even though rumor about it had been going
for years. Has the intentional leak played any role in the timing? If yes, I
think that Times should mention it. This is a tremendous reporting, but it
would be useful for the readers to know the context of this report. We would
actually learn more about intricates about Chinese politics. –Joy,
Poughkeepsie
A.
Your questions are excellent. Why now? Because it took that long to gather
and evaluate the evidence, which involved thousands of pages of corporate
and regulatory documents that we obtained through public record requests to
various government entities in China.
I began looking into the business dealings of Wen Jiabao’s family late last
year. I had been working on a series called “Endangered Dragon,” which
looked at China’s government-managed economy, and wanted to include a piece
that would give deeper insight into how China’s capitalism worked at the
top. It is a broad subject, which I decided would be made more manageable by
focusing on one family. I chose the prime minister’s family because I had
heard conjecture about their business dealings for many years. People talked
openly about the family’s wealth as if it was fact, but there was really
no reporting on the subject that I could find that cited hard evidence
backing up the claims. I kept scratching my head about why no one had tried
to truth-squad the widespread rumors.
So I got started last year, and within a month or so, I was discovering
intriguing things about some of the businesses, but each new discovery
required digging deeper and deeper. I expected to finish the project within
a month, by working weekends, but it took more than a year!
I have read the speculation that some “insider” gave me information, or
that some enemies of the prime minister dropped off a huge box of documents
at my office. That never happened. Not only were there no leaked documents,
I never in the course of reporting met anyone who offered or hinted that
they had documents related to the family holdings. This was a paper trail of
publicly available documents that I followed with my own reporting, and if
I might hazard a guess, it was a trail that no one else had followed before
me.
In short, given the amount of effort this investigation required, I’d be
stunned if there were a box of documents sitting somewhere that contained
all of this work. If only it were so easy!
Q.
A great article with a lot of details. May I ask you how you can get into
such detailed level of information? Did you get any leads from someone
inside the Wall? It seems to me it is almost impossible to untangle such a
network of secret dealings without any hint from the people in the know, and
these are probably people who are Wen’s enemies. Thank you. — Jack, NY
A.
My only real source for this lengthy article was a filing cabinet full of
documents I requested from various Chinese government offices over a period
of about a year. After having some luck with my initial requests for
corporate registration documents from the State Administration for Industry
and Commerce bureaus, I went on a reporting spree: requesting and paying
fees for the records of dozens of investment partnerships tied to the
relatives of Wen Jiabao.
I also began making lists of individuals and companies and trying to figure
out who the people were and what their relationships were to one another;
and what, I asked, was the purpose of all these partnerships — many of
which had similar shareholders lists.
Although S.A.I.C. records are open to the public, few journalists in China
have really made good use of them. They are invaluable sources of
information about private companies. Two excellent Chinese publications,
Caixin and the 21 Century Business Herald, have regularly used S.A.I.C.
records. These two publications have done some groundbreaking business
reporting here. But government restrictions on writing about the families of
senior leaders limits the scope of investigative journalism in China,
particularly when the families of high-ranking officials are involved.
So, Jack, there was no person “inside the Wall” helping me. I read the
documents, called lawyers, accountants and financial experts for advice
about how to make sense of the records. Occasionally I met someone who was
able to identify one of the shareholders. But I told very few people that I
was working on a story about the prime minister’s relatives. Even my
closest friends did not know. I knew talking about my research could be
risky, and might derail the project. | x******g
发帖数: 33885 | | x******g
发帖数: 33885 | 3 中文翻译如下：
2012 年 10 月 29 日 3:52 pm1 评论
戴维 · 巴尔沃萨回答读者关于中国提交报告的问题
戴维 · 巴尔沃萨
时报 》 上海分社社长，大卫 · 巴尔沃萨上周报告，
中国总理温家宝的近亲持有数十亿美元
在隐藏财富美元。这里是他从读者问题的解答
提示的文章。
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Q。
作为纽约时报 》 上海局首席，我假定你是中国旧手
.我好奇的是什么促使您写这篇文章吗？什么是你
这篇文章的时机的理由吗？你有过的感觉吗
正在使用吗？— — 卡萨布兰卡
A.
自 2004 年以来，作为企业的一名记者，我已经在中国
部分中，我一直侧重我报告能源经济、 财政和
业务问题。在我任期内中国一直很多
有关是否讨论政府高级官员的家庭
受益于该国的经济转型，接受这样的
在公司中调用秘密股份。这是晚餐的一个固定的主题
当银行家、 律师和会计师聚集在上海时的谈话和
北京。我被告知许多倍这通常是通过使用"
代名人投资者，"朋友或不容易识别中的人
股东作为与政治家有联系的记录。这些被提名，我是
功能强大的政客、 给亲戚告诉，往往持有股份
他们在一家公司的股权。
大约一年前，如报道中国的一系列文章
国家管理经济，我决定看看是否有任何证据的背后
理论。我开始寻找到商业联系的几个高级
领导人。知道业务和中国金融的人都知道，
关于总理的亲属猜想是特别是持久性
所以我的焦点最终窄温家。我知道这将是
耗时而艰难的任务，但我决心要回答这
问题。我在犁耕，令我非常惊讶的发现有
巨大的公共记录中可用的信息。我
报告没有发现腐败或非法性。它并显示的名称
温家宝的亲属数十辆汽车投资背后隐藏很少
人们听说过。
Q。
我几乎认为对温家宝在您的文章 （大部分的所有指控
报告指他为双交和大量参与指称
数据损坏） 直到您报告的末尾，这表明，他几乎
因为她有疑问的生意、 离婚的妻子和他
愿意让判断他的历史。不幸的是，大多数人不会
完成读取这种冗长的报告，或成立了自己的意见
基于您的报告上半年...请多指教我和其他
读者如何首先解释您强有力的指控，然后暗示
您可能不确实的指控。让我清楚： 我们受够了
有损坏中国 （和其他地方），但我恐怕你的报告可能
对读者，并导致更为密切政府造成混乱
控制 — — 意味着更多的数据损坏和在中国的左倾政策
未来。是没有什么你都希望为的希望。— — 太平洋美国
A.
我不同意你第一次所列强的主张
指控，然后建议我不确定有关的指控。
我在进行这个故事的目的是为了确定是否的亲属
总理已经在中国的公司，并找出的大额股份
他们积累了多少财富。如果有线索如何这些
亲属提出他们的财富，这将明显地告诉我们一些关于
如何的东西在中国工作的高级领导人的亲属。
我没作出的指控，我介绍我的调查结果： 的亲属
总理已经控制了至少 2 美元的财富
.7 亿元在过去的十年，根据我检讨公共记录。
因为所有报告任何给定的主题，我们并没有进行我们
在真空中的调查。我们直接到民那里，其名称
我们跟踪的文件上出现。我们取得一再的努力达成
总理和他的各种亲属，让他们的机会
讨论文件或反驳我们的研究结果。他们没有响应或
拒绝置评。因此下, 一个最好的选择是探讨公众
记录和与我们的读者共享哪些总理曾公开表示呢
关于腐败和他是否寻求个人获得。我们还引
因为他们还棚维基解密组织发表的文件
关于这个主题灯和可能帮助读者更好地了解上下文
我们的调查结果。还有一个有趣的国务院电缆从 2007 年
这是指总理和他的家庭生意往来。
Q。
首先，感谢发布文章。它是眼开幕。我
问题是文章的你对即将到来的含意是文章的什么
关于 2012 年 11 月 8 日的共产主义过渡？很明显，是有人试
温家宝总理和他的改革派派系抹黑。谁将获益
最大的你的文章吗？它是吴邦国和周永康的强硬吗
派系？
我有一种奇怪的感觉，纽约时报已成为一种工具
共产党的不同派别之间的派系斗争。你
文章是不完全令人惊奇，它是一个公开的秘密，没人的手
中国的领导层干净了。整个政府已损坏。它具有
不可能是诚实的政府官员。唯一令人惊奇的事情是
规模的腐败，我的想法之前，感谢数亿
纽约时报，现在我知道它是几十亿。— — 约旦，折弯，俄勒冈州
A.
我的道歉。我不得不承认我是一个商业记者和做
不覆盖北京政治，也不是党代表大会的重点我
调查。所以我真的不能告诉你对政治的影响
这篇文章。你可能看过从民心裴文中的注释
谁在克莱 McKenna 大学。他认为这将削弱中的温
他的任期的最后几个月。有两个其他专家，专门从事这
区 — — 李承和侃，两者在布鲁金斯
在华盛顿。我们可能会听到更多从他们在未来几周有关
18 党代表大会和过渡，其中将包括命名
下一任总统，普遍预期是习近平和新总理
要替换可能是李克强，温家宝。我在北京的同事都
在关于该过渡的迷人系列称为"
警卫队发生变化"。
Q。
很有意思的是几天前，几个中文网站报道，
有关温家宝的家庭财富材料厚束被派往美国大型
消息代理身份不明的缔约方。这种猜测是，这是
为那些对薄熙来表示同情的人报仇。倍能为什么告诉我们
它决定做这现在向温家宝，即使它的传闻已经持续
年。故意泄漏已经发挥了任何作用的时间吗？如果是的话，我
认为时间应提到它。这是巨大提交报告，但它
将有助于读者了解此报告的范围。我们将
其实了解更多有关对中国政治的 intricates。–Joy，
波基普西
A.
您的问题是优秀的。为什么是现在？因为他花了那么久，收集
和评估涉及数千页的公司的证据
和我们通过对公共记录请求获得的规范性文件
在中国的各项政府实体。
我开始环顾温家宝总理家族的业务交易晚最后一个
一年。我曾从事一系列称为"濒危龙，"其中
看着中国政府管理经济的想要包括一片
这将使在中国的资本主义的工作如何深入了解
返回页首。它是一个广泛的主题，我决定将所作的更易于管理
重点一家人。因为我已经选择了总理的家庭
关于多年商业往来的听到的猜想。说话的人
公开有关家庭的财富，如果这是事实，但这样做实在
没有报告中关于这个问题我可以找到的引确凿的证据
备份索赔。备存关于为什么从来没有人搔
真相队普遍传言。
所以我得开始过去一年，并在一个月左右的时间里，我发现了
一些行业，但每个新发现的有趣事情
所需挖越陷越深。我预计完成内项目
一个月的周末工作，但花了一年多了 ！
我读了一些"内幕"给了我的投机活动的信息，或
一些敌人总理落一大箱的文件
在我的办公室。这永远不会发生。不只在那里没有泄露的文件，
我从来没有在报告的过程中遇到任何人提供或暗示
他们有的家庭持有有关的文件。这是文件线索
公开获得的文件，我跟我对自己的报告，并且如果
可能猜测，那是没有其他人之前遵循了线索
我。
鉴于这项调查所需的工作量，简而言之，是我
惊呆了，如果有一个框坐在某个位置包含的文件
所有这一切的工作。如果只是那么容易 ！
Q。
与很多细节的好文章。请问你如何才能到呢
这种详细的级别的信息吗？你从别人得到任何的线索
在墙内吗？看来几乎不可能摆脱这种
无人不知，从任何暗示的秘密交易的网络和
这些可能是温家宝的敌人的人。谢谢。— — 杰克纽约
A.
这篇长文我唯一的真正来源是充分的文件柜
我从各种中国政府办事处一段要求提供的文件
一年左右。后有一些运气我初始请求
从行业国家行政管理的公司注册文件
商贸局，就去报告狂： 请求和支付
几十个投资伙伴关系记录挂钩的收费
温家宝总理的亲属。
我也开始使个人和公司的名单，并试图弄
出人是谁，以及它们之间的关系是彼此 ；
什么，我问的是，所有这些伙伴关系的目的 — — 许多的
其中有类似股东名单。
虽然上汽记录是开放予公众使用，在中国的几个记者
确实取得了很好利用它们。他们非常宝贵的来源
私人公司的信息。两个优秀的中文出版物
财和 21 世纪经济报道 》，定期使用了上汽
记录。这两份出版物做了一些开创性的业务
报告在这里。但政府对有关家庭的写作的限制
高级领导人限制中国，在新闻调查的范围
特别是高级官员的家属都参与。
所以，杰克，没有人"内外墙"帮助我。我读
文件，要求律师、 会计师和金融专家的咨询意见
有关如何记录的有道理。偶尔遇见的人
能够识别的股东之一。但很少人，告诉我我
正在对总理的亲属的故事。即使我
不知道最亲密的朋友。我知道可以谈论我的研究
有风险，并可能会破坏该项目。 | p********r
发帖数: 1193 | 4 这几个问题有趣，呵呵
of
【在 h******t 的大作中提到】
: http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/10/29/david-barboza-answe
: October 29, 2012, 3:52 pm1 Comment
: David Barboza Answers Reader Questions on Reporting in China
: By DAVID BARBOZA
: The Times’s Shanghai bureau chief, David Barboza, reported last week that
: close relatives of Wen Jiabao, the prime minister of China, hold billions of
: dollars in hidden riches. Here are his answers to questions from readers
: prompted by the article.
: ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
: ----
| p********r
发帖数: 1193 | 5 还是看英文吧，这个越看越晕
【在 x******g 的大作中提到】
: 中文翻译如下：
: 2012 年 10 月 29 日 3:52 pm1 评论
: 戴维 · 巴尔沃萨回答读者关于中国提交报告的问题
: 戴维 · 巴尔沃萨
: 时报 》 上海分社社长，大卫 · 巴尔沃萨上周报告，
: 中国总理温家宝的近亲持有数十亿美元
: 在隐藏财富美元。这里是他从读者问题的解答
: 提示的文章。
: ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
: ----
|
|
