d**e
发帖数: 2420 | 1 http://news.sciencemag.org/scienceinsider/2010/09/urologist-arrested-for-attacks.html
Urologist Arrested for Attacks on Chinese Whistleblowers
BEIJING—The police bureau here announced Tuesday evening that they have
detained the suspected mastermind behind assaults on China's science
misconduct watchdog Fang Shimin (aka Fang Zhouzi) and journalist Fang
Xuanchang. (The two Fangs are not related.)
Earlier on 21 September, police detained Xiao Chuanguo, chief urology
surgeon at the Tongji Hospital a |
d*b
发帖数: 21830 | 2 洋大人对方很不尿啊，看这段：
“The procedure also caught the attention of Kenneth Peters, director of
urology research at the William Beaumont Hospital in Royal Oak, Michigan,
who launched a phase II clinical trial at his hospital (see also an
Associated Press report). Trial results have not been published. Peters also
obtained two grants from the National Institute of Health to study the
safety and efficacy of the procedure for treating spina bifida patients.
According to a description in his grant proposal,
【在 d**e 的大作中提到】
: http://news.sciencemag.org/scienceinsider/2010/09/urologist-arrested-for-attacks.html
: Urologist Arrested for Attacks on Chinese Whistleblowers
: BEIJING—The police bureau here announced Tuesday evening that they have
: detained the suspected mastermind behind assaults on China's science
: misconduct watchdog Fang Shimin (aka Fang Zhouzi) and journalist Fang
: Xuanchang. (The two Fangs are not related.)
: Earlier on 21 September, police detained Xiao Chuanguo, chief urology
: surgeon at the Tongji Hospital a
|
d*********2
发帖数: 48111 | 3 鬼子要质疑， 需要有相当的权威和地位做保障。
所以国内民科猖獗， 方这种人在鬼子眼里就是个民科。
also
【在 d*b 的大作中提到】
: 洋大人对方很不尿啊，看这段：
: “The procedure also caught the attention of Kenneth Peters, director of
: urology research at the William Beaumont Hospital in Royal Oak, Michigan,
: who launched a phase II clinical trial at his hospital (see also an
: Associated Press report). Trial results have not been published. Peters also
: obtained two grants from the National Institute of Health to study the
: safety and efficacy of the procedure for treating spina bifida patients.
: According to a description in his grant proposal,
|
w**********u
发帖数: 580 | 4 看作者的名字也不是洋大人啊
Michigan,
also
show
【在 d*b 的大作中提到】
: 洋大人对方很不尿啊，看这段：
: “The procedure also caught the attention of Kenneth Peters, director of
: urology research at the William Beaumont Hospital in Royal Oak, Michigan,
: who launched a phase II clinical trial at his hospital (see also an
: Associated Press report). Trial results have not been published. Peters also
: obtained two grants from the National Institute of Health to study the
: safety and efficacy of the procedure for treating spina bifida patients.
: According to a description in his grant proposal,
|
a*********g
发帖数: 8087 | |
h****n
发帖数: 4860 | 6 你洗洗睡吧，再怎么给昏教授站脚助威也没用了，这次肘子无论从里子还是面子，民间
口碑
还是官方支持都是完胜
Michigan,
also
show
【在 d*b 的大作中提到】
: 洋大人对方很不尿啊，看这段：
: “The procedure also caught the attention of Kenneth Peters, director of
: urology research at the William Beaumont Hospital in Royal Oak, Michigan,
: who launched a phase II clinical trial at his hospital (see also an
: Associated Press report). Trial results have not been published. Peters also
: obtained two grants from the National Institute of Health to study the
: safety and efficacy of the procedure for treating spina bifida patients.
: According to a description in his grant proposal,
|
d*********2
发帖数: 48111 | 7 这个肖一贯就是个头脑发热的主。
肘子本来就是狗屎级的， 靠咬人为生的。
这就是一个真理， 狗可以咬人， 人不可以咬狗， 人要对付狗， 必须也只能用更
高级的手段。
【在 h****n 的大作中提到】
: 你洗洗睡吧，再怎么给昏教授站脚助威也没用了，这次肘子无论从里子还是面子，民间
: 口碑
: 还是官方支持都是完胜
:
: Michigan,
: also
: show
|
d******i
发帖数: 1064 | 8 1,这是肖的洋哥们。
2，Whistleblower 是专有名词。wikileak的那家伙也叫这个。这词还有点褒义。
also
【在 d*b 的大作中提到】
: 洋大人对方很不尿啊，看这段：
: “The procedure also caught the attention of Kenneth Peters, director of
: urology research at the William Beaumont Hospital in Royal Oak, Michigan,
: who launched a phase II clinical trial at his hospital (see also an
: Associated Press report). Trial results have not been published. Peters also
: obtained two grants from the National Institute of Health to study the
: safety and efficacy of the procedure for treating spina bifida patients.
: According to a description in his grant proposal,
|
w****y
发帖数: 2501 | 9 仅在whistleblower指团队中的告密者才隐含贬义。
方和肖显然不是一个团队的，真看不出为何“非常轻蔑”？文章定调也很客观。
【在 d*b 的大作中提到】
: 洋大人对方很不尿啊，看这段：
: “The procedure also caught the attention of Kenneth Peters, director of
: urology research at the William Beaumont Hospital in Royal Oak, Michigan,
: who launched a phase II clinical trial at his hospital (see also an
: Associated Press report). Trial results have not been published. Peters also
: obtained two grants from the National Institute of Health to study the
: safety and efficacy of the procedure for treating spina bifida patients.
: According to a description in his grant proposal,
|
w****y
发帖数: 2501 | 10 “洋大人”写得很客观。方也一样。
方攻击肖的假文章、假简历、虚假手术成功率，并不是攻击具体手术内容。
我看不出“洋大人”对方很“不尿”在何处？
also
【在 d*b 的大作中提到】
: 洋大人对方很不尿啊，看这段：
: “The procedure also caught the attention of Kenneth Peters, director of
: urology research at the William Beaumont Hospital in Royal Oak, Michigan,
: who launched a phase II clinical trial at his hospital (see also an
: Associated Press report). Trial results have not been published. Peters also
: obtained two grants from the National Institute of Health to study the
: safety and efficacy of the procedure for treating spina bifida patients.
: According to a description in his grant proposal,
|
|
|
w****y
发帖数: 2501 | 11 Fang Zhouzi asserted on his Web site, New Threads, that Xiao's
procedure was not nearly as internationally famous as Xiao claimed
and alleged that Xiao exploited the Chinese public's inability to
access information in English to inflate his achievement.
看清楚，“洋大人”对方的打假内容有准确的描述。方叉是质疑假宣传，不
是说手术无效。都postdoc了，你应该能搞清楚吧。
also
【在 d*b 的大作中提到】
: 洋大人对方很不尿啊，看这段：
: “The procedure also caught the attention of Kenneth Peters, director of
: urology research at the William Beaumont Hospital in Royal Oak, Michigan,
: who launched a phase II clinical trial at his hospital (see also an
: Associated Press report). Trial results have not been published. Peters also
: obtained two grants from the National Institute of Health to study the
: safety and efficacy of the procedure for treating spina bifida patients.
: According to a description in his grant proposal,
|
Z**S
发帖数: 1211 | 12 Maybe you can list any other surgical procedure named after a Chinese.
Fang said the success rate of the Xiao procedure was 0%, whereas
the clinical trial in US showed improvement in 7 out of 9 patients.
【在 w****y 的大作中提到】
: Fang Zhouzi asserted on his Web site, New Threads, that Xiao's
: procedure was not nearly as internationally famous as Xiao claimed
: and alleged that Xiao exploited the Chinese public's inability to
: access information in English to inflate his achievement.
: 看清楚，“洋大人”对方的打假内容有准确的描述。方叉是质疑假宣传，不
: 是说手术无效。都postdoc了，你应该能搞清楚吧。
:
: also
|
d*********2
发帖数: 48111 | 13 方这个人rp不好， 我是９８年就和他打过交道的。
先开始同一阵线。 然后一件事情稍微看法不同就被骂了个狗血喷头。
一般人对一件事情的喜好， 基本上就是兴致所至， 发表一些看法。
方是先把事情归类， 然后决定反对还是支持， 这个过程感觉上， 他是以
名利作为优先考量的。 然后就极端化， 对任何稍微不同的意见不加考虑思索，
一概打死。 其实这种风格作为网路灌水也说得过去， 硬要登大雅之堂， 影响公众
舆论的时候， 就给人的感觉太文革了。
【在 Z**S 的大作中提到】
: Maybe you can list any other surgical procedure named after a Chinese.
: Fang said the success rate of the Xiao procedure was 0%, whereas
: the clinical trial in US showed improvement in 7 out of 9 patients.
|
b*******g
发帖数: 2175 | 14 顶, 俺觉得他跟文革时的造反头子很相似,实在有愧于"打假专家"这个头衔.
【在 d*********2 的大作中提到】
: 方这个人rp不好， 我是９８年就和他打过交道的。
: 先开始同一阵线。 然后一件事情稍微看法不同就被骂了个狗血喷头。
: 一般人对一件事情的喜好， 基本上就是兴致所至， 发表一些看法。
: 方是先把事情归类， 然后决定反对还是支持， 这个过程感觉上， 他是以
: 名利作为优先考量的。 然后就极端化， 对任何稍微不同的意见不加考虑思索，
: 一概打死。 其实这种风格作为网路灌水也说得过去， 硬要登大雅之堂， 影响公众
: 舆论的时候， 就给人的感觉太文革了。
|
A*******s
发帖数: 3942 | 15 其实么，能做到屁股不被脑袋决定的人是少数的
【在 d*********2 的大作中提到】
: 方这个人rp不好， 我是９８年就和他打过交道的。
: 先开始同一阵线。 然后一件事情稍微看法不同就被骂了个狗血喷头。
: 一般人对一件事情的喜好， 基本上就是兴致所至， 发表一些看法。
: 方是先把事情归类， 然后决定反对还是支持， 这个过程感觉上， 他是以
: 名利作为优先考量的。 然后就极端化， 对任何稍微不同的意见不加考虑思索，
: 一概打死。 其实这种风格作为网路灌水也说得过去， 硬要登大雅之堂， 影响公众
: 舆论的时候， 就给人的感觉太文革了。
|
p********n
发帖数: 2482 | 16 你要向柴静学习，看看柴是怎么在被方批评后获得尊敬的。
在乎面子，往往会丢了里子。
【在 d*********2 的大作中提到】
: 方这个人rp不好， 我是９８年就和他打过交道的。
: 先开始同一阵线。 然后一件事情稍微看法不同就被骂了个狗血喷头。
: 一般人对一件事情的喜好， 基本上就是兴致所至， 发表一些看法。
: 方是先把事情归类， 然后决定反对还是支持， 这个过程感觉上， 他是以
: 名利作为优先考量的。 然后就极端化， 对任何稍微不同的意见不加考虑思索，
: 一概打死。 其实这种风格作为网路灌水也说得过去， 硬要登大雅之堂， 影响公众
: 舆论的时候， 就给人的感觉太文革了。
|
w****y
发帖数: 2501 | 17 你这是谣言，方没有说过0%成概率。
提到0%成概率的是一帮调查记者，而且成概率为0是指调查的案例中没有成功的。
http://www.xys.org/xys/ebooks/others/science/dajia10/xiaochuanguo65.txt
【在 Z**S 的大作中提到】
: Maybe you can list any other surgical procedure named after a Chinese.
: Fang said the success rate of the Xiao procedure was 0%, whereas
: the clinical trial in US showed improvement in 7 out of 9 patients.
|
w****y
发帖数: 2501 | 18 虽然我也不欣赏他的犀利文风，但是我不同意他rp有问题。客观地说一句，你对他的
归纳反倒有点文革风格吧？
讨论是非问题没必要婉转，直接的方式反而可以更快得到真理。
【在 d*********2 的大作中提到】
: 方这个人rp不好， 我是９８年就和他打过交道的。
: 先开始同一阵线。 然后一件事情稍微看法不同就被骂了个狗血喷头。
: 一般人对一件事情的喜好， 基本上就是兴致所至， 发表一些看法。
: 方是先把事情归类， 然后决定反对还是支持， 这个过程感觉上， 他是以
: 名利作为优先考量的。 然后就极端化， 对任何稍微不同的意见不加考虑思索，
: 一概打死。 其实这种风格作为网路灌水也说得过去， 硬要登大雅之堂， 影响公众
: 舆论的时候， 就给人的感觉太文革了。
|
Z**S
发帖数: 1211 | 19 Since you post a xys link here, it means your pop endorses this
investigation.
He is famous for deletion any post that he disagrees or disagrees him.
Didn't he also cite the study in TV programs? Do you mean he is spreading
rumors intentionally or unintentionally to defame Xiao SB?
If the success rate is 89%, what is the chance that somehow more than 100 of
the cases 一帮调查记者 investigated all failed? Come on, you must have
learned statistics in college.
【在 w****y 的大作中提到】
: 你这是谣言，方没有说过0%成概率。
: 提到0%成概率的是一帮调查记者，而且成概率为0是指调查的案例中没有成功的。
: http://www.xys.org/xys/ebooks/others/science/dajia10/xiaochuanguo65.txt
|
w****y
发帖数: 2501 | 20 之所以发个link，因为你指责方说了0%，我找出0%的出处给你看，佐证0%不是方说的，
而是新
语丝非方的文章中的。而且文章中做了引用，不是文章作者自己的观点。0%不是方的观
点，新语
丝刊登这样的文章，也没有什么问题。
我不想去讨论98%还是0%；我想说的是，方质疑的不是手术，而是肖给出的87%。
请不要随便给我扣帽子“your pop endorses this investigation”。扣错了恰恰说明
你需要学习一下方所提倡的科学精神。
spreading
100 of
【在 Z**S 的大作中提到】
: Since you post a xys link here, it means your pop endorses this
: investigation.
: He is famous for deletion any post that he disagrees or disagrees him.
: Didn't he also cite the study in TV programs? Do you mean he is spreading
: rumors intentionally or unintentionally to defame Xiao SB?
: If the success rate is 89%, what is the chance that somehow more than 100 of
: the cases 一帮调查记者 investigated all failed? Come on, you must have
: learned statistics in college.
|
|
|
d*********2
发帖数: 48111 | 21 xys能留下的文章都是方认可的。
就像一个杂志， 登载的文章， 除了问责作者， 也要问责编辑。
【在 w****y 的大作中提到】
: 之所以发个link，因为你指责方说了0%，我找出0%的出处给你看，佐证0%不是方说的，
: 而是新
: 语丝非方的文章中的。而且文章中做了引用，不是文章作者自己的观点。0%不是方的观
: 点，新语
: 丝刊登这样的文章，也没有什么问题。
: 我不想去讨论98%还是0%；我想说的是，方质疑的不是手术，而是肖给出的87%。
: 请不要随便给我扣帽子“your pop endorses this investigation”。扣错了恰恰说明
: 你需要学习一下方所提倡的科学精神。
:
: spreading
|
d*********2
发帖数: 48111 | 22 我描述的时候对客观事实和主观印象分的很开。
我自己对他的个人看法是我的事情。
你倒是很方轮啊。
【在 w****y 的大作中提到】
: 虽然我也不欣赏他的犀利文风，但是我不同意他rp有问题。客观地说一句，你对他的
: 归纳反倒有点文革风格吧？
: 讨论是非问题没必要婉转，直接的方式反而可以更快得到真理。
|
Z**S
发帖数: 1211 | 23 Well, if someone say wesley is 方XX, then I can cite this ref
to everyone I see and say you are 方XX, I guess that is 方所提倡的科学精神.
科学精神 means you go deeper into the reference to reach
your own conclusion. 85% and 0% are totally incompatible,
therefore 方 should have carried out his own investigation
before citing the ref.
【在 w****y 的大作中提到】
: 之所以发个link，因为你指责方说了0%，我找出0%的出处给你看，佐证0%不是方说的，
: 而是新
: 语丝非方的文章中的。而且文章中做了引用，不是文章作者自己的观点。0%不是方的观
: 点，新语
: 丝刊登这样的文章，也没有什么问题。
: 我不想去讨论98%还是0%；我想说的是，方质疑的不是手术，而是肖给出的87%。
: 请不要随便给我扣帽子“your pop endorses this investigation”。扣错了恰恰说明
: 你需要学习一下方所提倡的科学精神。
:
: spreading
|
S*******C
发帖数: 7325 | 24 make sense
【在 d*********2 的大作中提到】
: xys能留下的文章都是方认可的。
: 就像一个杂志， 登载的文章， 除了问责作者， 也要问责编辑。
|
w****y
发帖数: 2501 | 25 有人引用了别人的调查结果（发现是0%），方把这种质疑的声音放出来，所以确切的
说，方认可那些文章中提出的质疑。
我自己在新语丝发过一篇文章，不过不是质疑别人，而是指出方舟子的一个错误，他
把文中发在新语丝了（附上了他的按）。你质疑的有道理，写得也清楚，他会发的。
【在 d*********2 的大作中提到】
: xys能留下的文章都是方认可的。
: 就像一个杂志， 登载的文章， 除了问责作者， 也要问责编辑。
|
d*********2
发帖数: 48111 | 26 果然是新语丝的托。
而且没有写过理科论文。
【在 w****y 的大作中提到】
: 有人引用了别人的调查结果（发现是0%），方把这种质疑的声音放出来，所以确切的
: 说，方认可那些文章中提出的质疑。
: 我自己在新语丝发过一篇文章，不过不是质疑别人，而是指出方舟子的一个错误，他
: 把文中发在新语丝了（附上了他的按）。你质疑的有道理，写得也清楚，他会发的。
|
w****y
发帖数: 2501 | 27 我是指你下面的这段话是文革的文风：
“肘子本来就是狗屎级的，靠咬人为生的。”
【在 d*********2 的大作中提到】
: 我描述的时候对客观事实和主观印象分的很开。
: 我自己对他的个人看法是我的事情。
: 你倒是很方轮啊。
|
w****y
发帖数: 2501 | 28 你的意思是，Science的主编需要去证明science文章里用到的引用？
【在 Z**S 的大作中提到】
: Well, if someone say wesley is 方XX, then I can cite this ref
: to everyone I see and say you are 方XX, I guess that is 方所提倡的科学精神.
: 科学精神 means you go deeper into the reference to reach
: your own conclusion. 85% and 0% are totally incompatible,
: therefore 方 should have carried out his own investigation
: before citing the ref.
|
Z**S
发帖数: 1211 | 29 Man, are you in the science field?
Maybe you are a starting Ph.D. student?
【在 w****y 的大作中提到】
: 你的意思是，Science的主编需要去证明science文章里用到的引用？
|
w****y
发帖数: 2501 | 30 说这种话有意思么？从头到尾，我无非就是告诉你0%不是方自己说的，方也没必要一一
核实论坛中其他人的文章里引用别处的数据。这有什么错？
方是个偏执的人，现在挑方毛病的人满世界都是，以前我也挑过。你当然可以挑，但你
得挑得准。我指出你挑错的地方，你怎么反倒觉得我不science呢？再说，这种是非
明显的问题根本不需要science呀。
【在 Z**S 的大作中提到】
: Man, are you in the science field?
: Maybe you are a starting Ph.D. student?
|
|
|
P*O
发帖数: 4324 | 31 whistleblower 不是贬义词．把方称为 whistleblower 非常合适．
把方称为whistleblower,显然是种非常轻蔑的态度。
【在 d*b 的大作中提到】
: 洋大人对方很不尿啊，看这段：
: “The procedure also caught the attention of Kenneth Peters, director of
: urology research at the William Beaumont Hospital in Royal Oak, Michigan,
: who launched a phase II clinical trial at his hospital (see also an
: Associated Press report). Trial results have not been published. Peters also
: obtained two grants from the National Institute of Health to study the
: safety and efficacy of the procedure for treating spina bifida patients.
: According to a description in his grant proposal,
|
T**********r
发帖数: 1223 | 32 whistleblower 哪里有贬义？
A whistleblower can be defined as a person who reveals any wrongdoings or
malpractices that are taking place within an organization. These revelations
could be made either to the general public or to those who are in a
position of authority. A whistleblower can make a disclosure of corruption,
mismanagement, illegal activities or any other wrongdoing.
For a while now the public recognition and value for whistle blowing has
been on a marked rise. This is giving more and more
【在 d*b 的大作中提到】
: 洋大人对方很不尿啊，看这段：
: “The procedure also caught the attention of Kenneth Peters, director of
: urology research at the William Beaumont Hospital in Royal Oak, Michigan,
: who launched a phase II clinical trial at his hospital (see also an
: Associated Press report). Trial results have not been published. Peters also
: obtained two grants from the National Institute of Health to study the
: safety and efficacy of the procedure for treating spina bifida patients.
: According to a description in his grant proposal,
|
s*r
发帖数: 2757 | 33 are you kidding
【在 d*b 的大作中提到】
: 洋大人对方很不尿啊，看这段：
: “The procedure also caught the attention of Kenneth Peters, director of
: urology research at the William Beaumont Hospital in Royal Oak, Michigan,
: who launched a phase II clinical trial at his hospital (see also an
: Associated Press report). Trial results have not been published. Peters also
: obtained two grants from the National Institute of Health to study the
: safety and efficacy of the procedure for treating spina bifida patients.
: According to a description in his grant proposal,
|
s*r
发帖数: 2757 | 34 美国很多radio talkshow的主持人不都这样
【在 d*********2 的大作中提到】
: 方这个人rp不好， 我是９８年就和他打过交道的。
: 先开始同一阵线。 然后一件事情稍微看法不同就被骂了个狗血喷头。
: 一般人对一件事情的喜好， 基本上就是兴致所至， 发表一些看法。
: 方是先把事情归类， 然后决定反对还是支持， 这个过程感觉上， 他是以
: 名利作为优先考量的。 然后就极端化， 对任何稍微不同的意见不加考虑思索，
: 一概打死。 其实这种风格作为网路灌水也说得过去， 硬要登大雅之堂， 影响公众
: 舆论的时候， 就给人的感觉太文革了。
|
b********7
发帖数: 2404 | 35 鬼子要质疑， 需要有相当的权威和地位做保障。
所以国内民科猖獗， 方这种人在鬼子眼里就是个民科。 |
g******0
发帖数: 294 | 36 方饭迫不及待定论了？
等等看吧，
或许会有让你们意想不到的结果
【在 h****n 的大作中提到】
: 你洗洗睡吧，再怎么给昏教授站脚助威也没用了，这次肘子无论从里子还是面子，民间
: 口碑
: 还是官方支持都是完胜
:
: Michigan,
: also
: show
|
d**e
发帖数: 2420 | 37 有些人不是来跟你讲理的，所以也不用理他们。
【在 w****y 的大作中提到】
: 有人引用了别人的调查结果（发现是0%），方把这种质疑的声音放出来，所以确切的
: 说，方认可那些文章中提出的质疑。
: 我自己在新语丝发过一篇文章，不过不是质疑别人，而是指出方舟子的一个错误，他
: 把文中发在新语丝了（附上了他的按）。你质疑的有道理，写得也清楚，他会发的。
|
g******0
发帖数: 294 | 38 第一次看到方粉说要讲道理，不简单
【在 d**e 的大作中提到】
: 有些人不是来跟你讲理的，所以也不用理他们。
|
d******0
发帖数: 3640 | 39 从肖的使用的手段来看，怎么看都觉得肖是狗，方是人。
【在 d*********2 的大作中提到】
: 这个肖一贯就是个头脑发热的主。
: 肘子本来就是狗屎级的， 靠咬人为生的。
: 这就是一个真理， 狗可以咬人， 人不可以咬狗， 人要对付狗， 必须也只能用更
: 高级的手段。
|
d**e
发帖数: 2420 | 40 从你这几天的言论，大家可以清楚地看到你在网上的为人，
所以我也无需反驳你。
【在 g******0 的大作中提到】
: 方饭迫不及待定论了？
: 等等看吧，
: 或许会有让你们意想不到的结果
|
|
|
c***1
发帖数: 652 | 41 第一，那个美国'教授'是跟肖一伙的骗子，第二，whistleblower不是轻蔑，建议看看
关于ENRON的报道。我看大沙比也就是干干老娘们挖八卦什么的有点本事。
also
【在 d*b 的大作中提到】
: 洋大人对方很不尿啊，看这段：
: “The procedure also caught the attention of Kenneth Peters, director of
: urology research at the William Beaumont Hospital in Royal Oak, Michigan,
: who launched a phase II clinical trial at his hospital (see also an
: Associated Press report). Trial results have not been published. Peters also
: obtained two grants from the National Institute of Health to study the
: safety and efficacy of the procedure for treating spina bifida patients.
: According to a description in his grant proposal,
|
h****n
发帖数: 4860 | 42 方人品如何我不知道，从你对方的谩骂看，你的人品是真的不怎么样
【在 d*********2 的大作中提到】
: 方这个人rp不好， 我是９８年就和他打过交道的。
: 先开始同一阵线。 然后一件事情稍微看法不同就被骂了个狗血喷头。
: 一般人对一件事情的喜好， 基本上就是兴致所至， 发表一些看法。
: 方是先把事情归类， 然后决定反对还是支持， 这个过程感觉上， 他是以
: 名利作为优先考量的。 然后就极端化， 对任何稍微不同的意见不加考虑思索，
: 一概打死。 其实这种风格作为网路灌水也说得过去， 硬要登大雅之堂， 影响公众
: 舆论的时候， 就给人的感觉太文革了。
|
h****n
发帖数: 4860 | 43 虹桥的一帮方黑就别意淫了
【在 g******0 的大作中提到】
: 方饭迫不及待定论了？
: 等等看吧，
: 或许会有让你们意想不到的结果
|
o******e
发帖数: 575 | |
f****g
发帖数: 2073 | 45 很多肖的支持者和不明真相的百姓把手术的可行性和肖的作假混在一起了。这种方法手
术的可行性和成功率是可能的，但是肖能不能做，水平多高是另外一个问题。
比如汉芯事件，这种DSP芯片国外产品比比皆是，技术不假，但陈进就是他妈的做不出
来， |
k******y
发帖数: 1407 | 46 "一件事情稍微看法不同就被骂了个狗血喷头"
然后你就成了逢方必反……你脆弱的心灵到底受到了何种创伤？说出来听听
【在 d*********2 的大作中提到】
: 方这个人rp不好， 我是９８年就和他打过交道的。
: 先开始同一阵线。 然后一件事情稍微看法不同就被骂了个狗血喷头。
: 一般人对一件事情的喜好， 基本上就是兴致所至， 发表一些看法。
: 方是先把事情归类， 然后决定反对还是支持， 这个过程感觉上， 他是以
: 名利作为优先考量的。 然后就极端化， 对任何稍微不同的意见不加考虑思索，
: 一概打死。 其实这种风格作为网路灌水也说得过去， 硬要登大雅之堂， 影响公众
: 舆论的时候， 就给人的感觉太文革了。
|
Z**S
发帖数: 1211 | 47 If the editor of science saw one group reports 85% efficacy, and
the other reports 0%, do you think the editor will publish both without
probing deeper?
【在 w****y 的大作中提到】
: 说这种话有意思么？从头到尾，我无非就是告诉你0%不是方自己说的，方也没必要一一
: 核实论坛中其他人的文章里引用别处的数据。这有什么错？
: 方是个偏执的人，现在挑方毛病的人满世界都是，以前我也挑过。你当然可以挑，但你
: 得挑得准。我指出你挑错的地方，你怎么反倒觉得我不science呢？再说，这种是非
: 明显的问题根本不需要science呀。
|
w****y
发帖数: 2501 | 48 If it was a case like what you are saying, perhaps won't
(i.e., I would agree with you); but it wasn't the case.
XYS is not a place for scientific papers but for watchdog
articles, which bring up support against the claimed 87%.
It is known that 87% is not based on evidence. So, why
cannot someone counter it with a QUOTED CASE STUDY with
a 0% conclusion. After all, the purpose is not to reach
a specific percentage scientifically but to question 87%.
The actual percentage is Xiao's job.
If 0% is
【在 Z**S 的大作中提到】
: If the editor of science saw one group reports 85% efficacy, and
: the other reports 0%, do you think the editor will publish both without
: probing deeper?
|
w****y
发帖数: 2501 | 49 是滴，说手术效果有争议更准确。但是，谁叫肖没有信用呢？最后也许埋葬了一个本来
有发展的好方法。
【在 f****g 的大作中提到】
: 很多肖的支持者和不明真相的百姓把手术的可行性和肖的作假混在一起了。这种方法手
: 术的可行性和成功率是可能的，但是肖能不能做，水平多高是另外一个问题。
: 比如汉芯事件，这种DSP芯片国外产品比比皆是，技术不假，但陈进就是他妈的做不出
: 来，
|
Z**S
发帖数: 1211 | 50 You can not be both: being the highly claimed Chinese
Science Watchdog and yet taking no responsibility for
the evidence raised against Xiao SB. Especially when
everyone knows that this watchdog only keep the posts
in XYS that he favors/agrees. If Fang is biased to begin with,
he needs to take full responsibility for the 'evidence' he uses.
【在 w****y 的大作中提到】
: If it was a case like what you are saying, perhaps won't
: (i.e., I would agree with you); but it wasn't the case.
: XYS is not a place for scientific papers but for watchdog
: articles, which bring up support against the claimed 87%.
: It is known that 87% is not based on evidence. So, why
: cannot someone counter it with a QUOTED CASE STUDY with
: a 0% conclusion. After all, the purpose is not to reach
: a specific percentage scientifically but to question 87%.
: The actual percentage is Xiao's job.
: If 0% is
|
|
|
l****y
发帖数: 169 | 51 whistleblower 毫无贬义，略带褒义。
also
【在 d*b 的大作中提到】
: 洋大人对方很不尿啊，看这段：
: “The procedure also caught the attention of Kenneth Peters, director of
: urology research at the William Beaumont Hospital in Royal Oak, Michigan,
: who launched a phase II clinical trial at his hospital (see also an
: Associated Press report). Trial results have not been published. Peters also
: obtained two grants from the National Institute of Health to study the
: safety and efficacy of the procedure for treating spina bifida patients.
: According to a description in his grant proposal,
|
w****y
发帖数: 2501 | 52 What's wrong with this 0% from a case study on Xiao's
Chinese patients?
Of course, one's stand is to question a result before
it is solidly proved or can be independently repeated.
Surely, Fang posts articles that question an unproven
result. These articles favor his stand; but what's
wrong these articles and what's wrong with his stand?
It is to tell people: look, someone is taking advan-
tages of ungrounded claims, which may turn out to be
wrong. This is science, not bias.
Or, you can say: bef
【在 Z**S 的大作中提到】
: You can not be both: being the highly claimed Chinese
: Science Watchdog and yet taking no responsibility for
: the evidence raised against Xiao SB. Especially when
: everyone knows that this watchdog only keep the posts
: in XYS that he favors/agrees. If Fang is biased to begin with,
: he needs to take full responsibility for the 'evidence' he uses.
|
Z**S
发帖数: 1211 | 53 Before the US clinical trial, I take no stand.
However, the US trial showed 7 out 9 patients
showing improvement. I don't believe doctor here
will cheat just to cover Xiao's ass. What is the benefit?
In the worse case, they will not be able to renew their
RO1. Therefore, 7/9 is much closer to 85% than the 0%
efficacy Fang insists. Someone also posted CNN reports
on the Xiao procedure in youtube, there seemed to be
quite some positive comments from the US patients.
This then backfires: if 7/9 eff
【在 w****y 的大作中提到】
: What's wrong with this 0% from a case study on Xiao's
: Chinese patients?
: Of course, one's stand is to question a result before
: it is solidly proved or can be independently repeated.
: Surely, Fang posts articles that question an unproven
: result. These articles favor his stand; but what's
: wrong these articles and what's wrong with his stand?
: It is to tell people: look, someone is taking advan-
: tages of ungrounded claims, which may turn out to be
: wrong. This is science, not bias.
|
t***h
发帖数: 5601 | 54 re
whistleblower不是贬义词
【在 P*O 的大作中提到】
: whistleblower 不是贬义词．把方称为 whistleblower 非常合适．
:
: 把方称为whistleblower,显然是种非常轻蔑的态度。
|
S*E
发帖数: 3662 | 55 没有提到肖在NYU的兼职副教授，以及拿了美国的NIH资助。 |
w****y
发帖数: 2501 | 56 7/9 is not published yet and 87% is known to be ungrounded.
Also, 9 is statistically insignificant. So, 7/9 and 87%
don't backfire 0%.
If sb can advertise a bogus 87% on news, what cannot others
find 0% through a case study of several patients and post
it on a website.
When sb advertises with no proof, it is your own choice to
take any stand or take no stand. I, however, will proudly
take the stand to be suspicious, rather taking no stand.
【在 Z**S 的大作中提到】
: Before the US clinical trial, I take no stand.
: However, the US trial showed 7 out 9 patients
: showing improvement. I don't believe doctor here
: will cheat just to cover Xiao's ass. What is the benefit?
: In the worse case, they will not be able to renew their
: RO1. Therefore, 7/9 is much closer to 85% than the 0%
: efficacy Fang insists. Someone also posted CNN reports
: on the Xiao procedure in youtube, there seemed to be
: quite some positive comments from the US patients.
: This then backfires: if 7/9 eff
|
w****y
发帖数: 2501 | 57 说白了，在一个东西被严格证明之前，质疑只需要提出可能的反证据。人们对质疑
要宽容的多，否则就没有质疑的可能了。
如果连合理的质疑都认不清，只能说你不科学了。
【在 Z**S 的大作中提到】
: Before the US clinical trial, I take no stand.
: However, the US trial showed 7 out 9 patients
: showing improvement. I don't believe doctor here
: will cheat just to cover Xiao's ass. What is the benefit?
: In the worse case, they will not be able to renew their
: RO1. Therefore, 7/9 is much closer to 85% than the 0%
: efficacy Fang insists. Someone also posted CNN reports
: on the Xiao procedure in youtube, there seemed to be
: quite some positive comments from the US patients.
: This then backfires: if 7/9 eff
|
d*b
发帖数: 21830 | 58 你说的有道理，professional是应该对nobody宽容点，想想APS年会还有个民科session
, 里面全是用圣经反对埃恩斯坦相对论的。想想老埃也真不容易，100年了还摆不平几
个民科。
以后中国生物学年会里也得搞个新语丝session,请你做报告。如何？
【在 w****y 的大作中提到】
: 说白了，在一个东西被严格证明之前，质疑只需要提出可能的反证据。人们对质疑
: 要宽容的多，否则就没有质疑的可能了。
: 如果连合理的质疑都认不清，只能说你不科学了。
|
c**********e
发帖数: 2007 | 59
> 把方称为whistleblower,显然是种非常轻蔑的态度。
Do you really understand English?
whistleblower is a very positive word.
【在 d*b 的大作中提到】
: 你说的有道理，professional是应该对nobody宽容点，想想APS年会还有个民科session
: , 里面全是用圣经反对埃恩斯坦相对论的。想想老埃也真不容易，100年了还摆不平几
: 个民科。
: 以后中国生物学年会里也得搞个新语丝session,请你做报告。如何？
|
p********k
发帖数: 97 | 60 7/9 is not even close to 85%. They mean different things.
what Xiao claimed is 85% of homeruns (i.e., complete urinary continence).
7/9 is just increase in bladder pressure with stimulation of the dermatome.
And even this could be due to "not voiding volitionally or using the newly
developed cutaneous reflex" as one commenter pointed out.
Go back and read the paper and the comments again.
【在 Z**S 的大作中提到】
: Before the US clinical trial, I take no stand.
: However, the US trial showed 7 out 9 patients
: showing improvement. I don't believe doctor here
: will cheat just to cover Xiao's ass. What is the benefit?
: In the worse case, they will not be able to renew their
: RO1. Therefore, 7/9 is much closer to 85% than the 0%
: efficacy Fang insists. Someone also posted CNN reports
: on the Xiao procedure in youtube, there seemed to be
: quite some positive comments from the US patients.
: This then backfires: if 7/9 eff
|
|
|
h********y
发帖数: 627 | 61 肖教授太不值了。那么多人都不理这个疯子，你要理他作什么！这种人整天不做事，东
打一下，西咬一口，见人就咬，有什么可理的。肖教授，你忘了你的理想和抱负了！只
有坚持做自己的实事是根本，何必浪费时间和精力与本来就没事做的人打口水官司！ |
Z**S
发帖数: 1211 | 62 A publication in J of Urology is not counted as publications.
7 out 9 is not statistically significant.
Congratulations. You won. You can report to your Pop about
yet another victory.
Bye bye.
【在 w****y 的大作中提到】
: 7/9 is not published yet and 87% is known to be ungrounded.
: Also, 9 is statistically insignificant. So, 7/9 and 87%
: don't backfire 0%.
: If sb can advertise a bogus 87% on news, what cannot others
: find 0% through a case study of several patients and post
: it on a website.
: When sb advertises with no proof, it is your own choice to
: take any stand or take no stand. I, however, will proudly
: take the stand to be suspicious, rather taking no stand.
|
a***e
发帖数: 27968 | 63 7/9也得等正式发表后再说吧
【在 Z**S 的大作中提到】
: Before the US clinical trial, I take no stand.
: However, the US trial showed 7 out 9 patients
: showing improvement. I don't believe doctor here
: will cheat just to cover Xiao's ass. What is the benefit?
: In the worse case, they will not be able to renew their
: RO1. Therefore, 7/9 is much closer to 85% than the 0%
: efficacy Fang insists. Someone also posted CNN reports
: on the Xiao procedure in youtube, there seemed to be
: quite some positive comments from the US patients.
: This then backfires: if 7/9 eff
|
w****y
发帖数: 2501 | 64 民科通常质疑的是确立的结论，方质疑的是没有确立的结论。
session
【在 d*b 的大作中提到】
: 你说的有道理，professional是应该对nobody宽容点，想想APS年会还有个民科session
: , 里面全是用圣经反对埃恩斯坦相对论的。想想老埃也真不容易，100年了还摆不平几
: 个民科。
: 以后中国生物学年会里也得搞个新语丝session,请你做报告。如何？
|
c******o
发帖数: 1184 | 65 把方称为whistleblower,显然是种非常轻蔑的态度?
印象中Responsible Conduct of Research这门课里都是这样叫得，没有什么不妥阿
【在 d**e 的大作中提到】
: http://news.sciencemag.org/scienceinsider/2010/09/urologist-arrested-for-attacks.html
: Urologist Arrested for Attacks on Chinese Whistleblowers
: BEIJING—The police bureau here announced Tuesday evening that they have
: detained the suspected mastermind behind assaults on China's science
: misconduct watchdog Fang Shimin (aka Fang Zhouzi) and journalist Fang
: Xuanchang. (The two Fangs are not related.)
: Earlier on 21 September, police detained Xiao Chuanguo, chief urology
: surgeon at the Tongji Hospital a
|
d********a
发帖数: 53 | 66 作者是郝白林院士的女儿。
【在 d**e 的大作中提到】
: http://news.sciencemag.org/scienceinsider/2010/09/urologist-arrested-for-attacks.html
: Urologist Arrested for Attacks on Chinese Whistleblowers
: BEIJING—The police bureau here announced Tuesday evening that they have
: detained the suspected mastermind behind assaults on China's science
: misconduct watchdog Fang Shimin (aka Fang Zhouzi) and journalist Fang
: Xuanchang. (The two Fangs are not related.)
: Earlier on 21 September, police detained Xiao Chuanguo, chief urology
: surgeon at the Tongji Hospital a
|
d********a
发帖数: 53 | 67 作者是郝白林院士的女儿。
【在 d**e 的大作中提到】
: http://news.sciencemag.org/scienceinsider/2010/09/urologist-arrested-for-attacks.html
: Urologist Arrested for Attacks on Chinese Whistleblowers
: BEIJING—The police bureau here announced Tuesday evening that they have
: detained the suspected mastermind behind assaults on China's science
: misconduct watchdog Fang Shimin (aka Fang Zhouzi) and journalist Fang
: Xuanchang. (The two Fangs are not related.)
: Earlier on 21 September, police detained Xiao Chuanguo, chief urology
: surgeon at the Tongji Hospital a
|
d*b
发帖数: 21830 | 68 Cindy竟然改行做记者了？
【在 d********a 的大作中提到】
: 作者是郝白林院士的女儿。
|
l******u
发帖数: 1174 | 69 dsb 童鞋显然英语水平有限.
【在 w****y 的大作中提到】
: 仅在whistleblower指团队中的告密者才隐含贬义。
: 方和肖显然不是一个团队的，真看不出为何“非常轻蔑”？文章定调也很客观。
|
r****r
发帖数: 1839 | 70 本BBS上见过的全部ID中，还没看到有超过方舟子严谨的。
【在 d**e 的大作中提到】
: http://news.sciencemag.org/scienceinsider/2010/09/urologist-arrested-for-attacks.html
: Urologist Arrested for Attacks on Chinese Whistleblowers
: BEIJING—The police bureau here announced Tuesday evening that they have
: detained the suspected mastermind behind assaults on China's science
: misconduct watchdog Fang Shimin (aka Fang Zhouzi) and journalist Fang
: Xuanchang. (The two Fangs are not related.)
: Earlier on 21 September, police detained Xiao Chuanguo, chief urology
: surgeon at the Tongji Hospital a
|
|
|
m*********g
发帖数: 268 | |
y********g
发帖数: 311 | 72 Only one lesson learnt from this case: Xiao made a stupid mistake for hiring
someone to attack Fangs. |
g******0
发帖数: 294 | 73 我还没见过像方一样不严谨的
【在 r****r 的大作中提到】
: 本BBS上见过的全部ID中，还没看到有超过方舟子严谨的。
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m***n
发帖数: 2154 | 74 然，要搞就要彻底搞死。
打得他半身不遂。
hiring
【在 y********g 的大作中提到】
: Only one lesson learnt from this case: Xiao made a stupid mistake for hiring
: someone to attack Fangs.
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m***n
发帖数: 2154 | 75 见人就咬，其实是现实。。因为其实大家简历都有点水分，只是多少的问题。
他咬谁就是看谁咬的动，能增加流量他就咬，呵呵。。
生物博后没前途，靠打假明显来得快么，什么都是借科学的名，呵呵。。
【在 h********y 的大作中提到】
: 肖教授太不值了。那么多人都不理这个疯子，你要理他作什么！这种人整天不做事，东
: 打一下，西咬一口，见人就咬，有什么可理的。肖教授，你忘了你的理想和抱负了！只
: 有坚持做自己的实事是根本，何必浪费时间和精力与本来就没事做的人打口水官司！
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a*********g
发帖数: 8087 | 76 现在对dsb童鞋越来越失望了
被打脸好多次了，一点反抗都没有
【在 l******u 的大作中提到】
: dsb 童鞋显然英语水平有限.
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Y*********i
发帖数: 2840 | 77 他刚开始的时候
发帖透着一股子自信，很多人被他蒙住了
后来越来越多的漏子被发现
他那股子气势就没了
【在 a*********g 的大作中提到】
: 现在对dsb童鞋越来越失望了
: 被打脸好多次了，一点反抗都没有
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d**e
发帖数: 2420 | 78 觉得我们很多人，从小到大被学习一堆政治课，实在
缺少逻辑训练和科学方法论学习。
【在 r****r 的大作中提到】
: 本BBS上见过的全部ID中，还没看到有超过方舟子严谨的。
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B********d
发帖数: 1893 | 79 whistleblower 没有什么贬义
also
【在 d*b 的大作中提到】
: 洋大人对方很不尿啊，看这段：
: “The procedure also caught the attention of Kenneth Peters, director of
: urology research at the William Beaumont Hospital in Royal Oak, Michigan,
: who launched a phase II clinical trial at his hospital (see also an
: Associated Press report). Trial results have not been published. Peters also
: obtained two grants from the National Institute of Health to study the
: safety and efficacy of the procedure for treating spina bifida patients.
: According to a description in his grant proposal,
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r****r
发帖数: 1839 | 80 除非此dsb非彼dsb，否则dsb已泯然众人矣，曾经是俺的崇拜偶像。
【在 a*********g 的大作中提到】
: 现在对dsb童鞋越来越失望了
: 被打脸好多次了，一点反抗都没有
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|
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p**********d
发帖数: 28 | 81 success rate 和 improvement 一样吗？
【在 Z**S 的大作中提到】
: Maybe you can list any other surgical procedure named after a Chinese.
: Fang said the success rate of the Xiao procedure was 0%, whereas
: the clinical trial in US showed improvement in 7 out of 9 patients.
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o******e
发帖数: 575 | 82 本星球上见过的全部畜生中，还没看到有超过方舟子恶毒的。
【在 r****r 的大作中提到】
: 本BBS上见过的全部ID中，还没看到有超过方舟子严谨的。
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n*********o
发帖数: 574 | 83 方舟子碍着你什么了？
【在 o******e 的大作中提到】
: 本星球上见过的全部畜生中，还没看到有超过方舟子恶毒的。
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W*********n
发帖数: 1694 | 84 你英语实在太差了
估计你还是查了维基百科的。可惜，你的理解能力也很差，上面的解释你还是没有读懂
NB
【在 w****y 的大作中提到】
: 仅在whistleblower指团队中的告密者才隐含贬义。
: 方和肖显然不是一个团队的，真看不出为何“非常轻蔑”？文章定调也很客观。
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