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Military版 - [合集] 如何回应室友支持西藏独立的想法呢?
相关主题
现在如果给香港 新疆 西藏公投的权力结果会怎样投票:是否应该给予西藏、新疆、台湾、香港独立公投的机会?
达赖“中间道路”图谋1/4国土划入“大藏区”如果中国各省效法苏格兰,那些会投成独立?
像西藏这种,变成真正的自治区行不行?前天和一个白左聊天,他说西藏应该独立
土共可以鼓吹西藏独立,任何人都可以鼓吹西藏独立最荒谬的就是担心台湾独立会引发新疆西藏独立问题的
不反对新疆西藏台湾内蒙古独立的,进来re一下新疆应该独立。西藏独立。
西藏新疆的独立问题很好解决。看了这个视频真是气愤,留言里面种族歧视严重!
清朝如果没有被推翻 外蒙西藏会闹独立么? (转载)上纲上线了:杀狮子等于杀黑人了
我来解释一下美国宪法第一修正案和西藏独立财政部长首次明确提出要开征社会保障税
相关话题的讨论汇总
话题: 西藏话题: 独立话题: 民众话题: 中央政府话题: 想不出
进入Military版参与讨论
1 (共1页)
T****M
发帖数: 1913
1
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luketa (鲁克塔) 于 (Mon Feb 15 13:13:56 2010, 美东) 提到:
事情是从现在的阿富汗说起的。他认为美国民众不制止他们政府的战争行为是很可耻的
。然后又说到当年日本,说着说着就说道现在西藏。
然后他的理由是 如果西藏的民众都要求独立,其他外部人(比如我们)没有权利去帮
他们决定他们不能独立。比如说加州的民众都支持要独立成一个国家,美国政府是不能
干预的。最多是停止对加州的经济扶持,社会保障等等。我辩解是中国的中央政府和美
国联邦政府是完全不同的体系。他的意思是假设民主存在的情况下,中央政府是不能来
决定西藏人民是否愿意划入管辖。 然后我就囧了,但是也想不出理由来反驳。
实在不善于跟人辩驳,从自己是中国人的角度来说总觉得不可能让西藏分裂出去,但却
又想不出啥理由来打破他的 民主 的说法。
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rove10 (Lion Cub║焚剑煮酒心已死) 于 (Mon Feb 15 13:25:
T****M
发帖数: 1913
2
☆─────────────────────────────────────☆
luketa (鲁克塔) 于 (Mon Feb 15 13:13:56 2010, 美东) 提到:
事情是从现在的阿富汗说起的。他认为美国民众不制止他们政府的战争行为是很可耻的
。然后又说到当年日本,说着说着就说道现在西藏。
然后他的理由是 如果西藏的民众都要求独立,其他外部人(比如我们)没有权利去帮
他们决定他们不能独立。比如说加州的民众都支持要独立成一个国家,美国政府是不能
干预的。最多是停止对加州的经济扶持,社会保障等等。我辩解是中国的中央政府和美
国联邦政府是完全不同的体系。他的意思是假设民主存在的情况下,中央政府是不能来
决定西藏人民是否愿意划入管辖。 然后我就囧了,但是也想不出理由来反驳。
实在不善于跟人辩驳,从自己是中国人的角度来说总觉得不可能让西藏分裂出去,但却
又想不出啥理由来打破他的 民主 的说法。
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rove10 (Lion Cub║焚剑煮酒心已死) 于 (Mon Feb 15 13:25:36 2010, 美东) 提到:
你问他,如果西藏的民众都不要求独立,其他外部人比如美国人有没有权利去鼓动他们
独立?
你问他,如果西藏的民众都反对当奴隶,其他外部人比如美国人为什么要支持一个奴隶
主作为西藏民众的代表?
你再问他,你知道西藏在哪儿吗?你连西藏在哪儿都不知道,你就胡说八道,不觉得很
荒唐吗?言论自由就是对自己不知道的东西胡说八道?

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luketa (鲁克塔) 于 (Mon Feb 15 13:26:33 2010, 美东) 提到:
...我反倒成one of them了 真无语
不过你说的对俺如何反驳他一点帮助也没有。。。
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luketa (鲁克塔) 于 (Mon Feb 15 13:33:09 2010, 美东) 提到:
这个达赖是奴隶主的事情倒是很有说服力。俺原先都不知道。。。lol 惭愧
额 西藏在哪他倒是知道。不过你说的还是有道理的,我估计他对达赖喇嘛的认识也就
是来自于bbc和cnn。他认为达赖是民主代表。。lol
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luketa (鲁克塔) 于 (Mon Feb 15 13:33:49 2010, 美东) 提到:
谢谢
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foxriver (foxriver) 于 (Mon Feb 15 13:45:16 2010, 美东) 提到:
你的室友是美国人还是中国人?
“比如说加州的民众都支持要独立成一个国家,美国政府是不能干预的”
让他自己去查查美国的法律,就知道这是BULLSHIT了
☆─────────────────────────────────────☆
USPSUCS (买买提头号镖客) 于 (Mon Feb 15 13:46:48 2010, 美东) 提到:
跟他说free lakota
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dengy (Chairman Maobama) 于 (Mon Feb 15 13:47:21 2010, 美东) 提到:
你问问他,当年南方独立,为啥联邦政府不肯,而且还发动战争,而且这场战争有违宪的嫌
疑.另外,你告诉她, Y就是法律白吃,美国法律规定, 任何一个州要脱离联邦,都要所有
其他的州同意才行.啥加州独立的假设,就是SB梦游的念头.
☆─────────────────────────────────────☆
USPSUCS (买买提头号镖客) 于 (Mon Feb 15 13:48:10 2010, 美东) 提到:
Republic of Lakotah
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
This article is about the proposed Lakota state. For other uses, see Lakota.
Republic of Lakotah
Motto: Mitaku Oyasin (Lakota), "We Are All Related"
Location of Lakotah in USA
Capital none officially declared
Porcupine, South Dakota (unofficial)
Largest city Omaha
Official languages Lakota
Government Matriarchal Confederation (proposed)
- Chief Facilitator Russell Means
Independence from United States
- Proclaimed December 19, 2007
- Recognition unrecognized
Area
- Total 200, 000 km2
77, 220 sq mi
Population
- 2005 estimate 100, 000[1] (including only people of Lakota origin)
Currency Currently USD ($)
Internet TLD None assigned
Calling code 1
Rankings may not be available because of its unrecognized state.
The Republic of Lakotah or Lakotah is a proposed country in North America to
serve as a homeland for the Lakota.
Its boundaries would be surrounded by the borders of the United States,
covering thousands of square miles in North Dakota, South Dakota, Nebraska,
Wyoming, and Montana. The proposed borders are those of the 1851 Treaty of
Fort Laramie between the United States government and the Lakota.
Contents [hide]
1 Background
2 Territory, demographics and economics
3 Activities
4 Politics and government
4.1 Government
5 Connections with other movements
6 Assertion of independence
7 Legal basis for independence
8 Motivations for independence
9 Support and reactions
9.1 Response from recognized Native American governments
9.2 International response
9.3 U.S. Government response
10 References
11 External links
[edit]Background
A group of Native Americans called the Lakota Freedom Delegation traveled to
Washington, D.C., on 17 December 2007 and delivered a statement asserting
the independence of the Lakota from the United States. The group argues that
the recent declaration of independence is not a secession from the USA, but
rather a reassertion of sovereignty. Their leader is Russell Means, one of
the prominent members of the American Indian Movement in the late 1960s and
1970s.
The Lakota Freedom Delegation does not recognize tribal governments or
presidents as recognized by the United States Bureau of Indian Affairs,
sometimes referring to these groups as "stay-by-the-fort Indians".[2]
[edit]Territory, demographics and economics
The claimed boundaries of Lakotah are the Yellowstone River to the north,
the North Platte River to the south, the Missouri River to the east and an
irregular line marking the west.[3][4] These borders coincide with those set
by the 1851 Treaty of Fort Laramie:
The territory of the Sioux or Dahcotah Nation, commencing the mouth of the
White Earth River, on the Missouri River; thence in a southwesterly
direction to the forks of the Platte River; thence up the north fork of the
Platte River to a point known as the Red Buts, or where the road leaves the
river; thence along the range of mountains known as the Black Hills, to the
head-waters of Heart River; thence down Heart River to its mouth; and thence
down the Missouri River to the place of beginning.[5]
The claimed boundaries of Lakotah shown on the United States
By these claims, the largest city in Lakotah is Omaha, Nebraska. The
boundaries also contain Rapid City, South Dakota; Mandan, North Dakota;
Casper, Wyoming; and Bellevue, Nebraska as well as Mount Rushmore.
In addition to containing all the Indian reservations of the Lakota, the
territory which the Republic claims includes reservations inhabited by non-
Lakota Siouan peoples (Dakota Indian Reservation, Winnebago Indian
Reservation and Omaha Indian Reservation) as well as part of one non-Sioux
reservation: the Fort Berthold Indian Reservation in western North Dakota.
They also contain the poorest counties in the United States.
[edit]Activities
The Republic of Lakotah is in negotiations to establish its own energy
company, and hopes to develop solar and wind power and sell surplus
electricity to the United States. This would represent a continuation of
projects in the past that have sourced renewable energy on tribal lands.[6]
The Republic also hopes to expand the farming of sugar beets for biofuel.[7]
As of January 1, 2008, the Republic announced they were filing liens on all
US government-held lands within their claimed borders;[8] however, the
first round of liens, in an unnamed county in South Dakota, were rejected.[9]
Following this, the Republic of Lakotah has chosen to concentrate on
recovery of the Black Hills.[10]
In July 2008, Russell Means announced that the Republic of Lakotah would be
founding an all-Lakota "grand jury" to investigate corruption by US
government officials on the seven reservations in the Republic's claimed
territory.[11]
Jerry Collette in March 2008 announced[12] Means's candidacy for presidency
of the Oglala Lakota in the 2008 election; Means won 45% of the vote.[13]
Means says that the Republic of Lakotah plans to run candidates in other
Lakota tribal presidential elections over the next two years, but does "not
expect to win" any of them, instead treating the vote results as referenda
on support for the Republic of Lakotah's program.[14]
The Republic Of Lakotah is currently hiring several workers and volunteers
of different professions to do numerous construction projects that will be
done throughout May to August 2009.[2] Among the largest of these projects
is the T.R.E.A.T.Y Total Immersion School. Based on the successes achieved
by the Total Immersion School experience of the Māori in New Zealand, the
school seeks to teach the indigenous culture’s language, art, dance, music,
science and oral tradition in addition to other traditional forms of
education to the people enrolled there.
The school will supposedly aid in both cultural and linguistic revival to
the Lakotah tribe. Eventually, the Republic of Lakotah will try to expand to
the construction of the approximately 100 schools which will be needed to
serve all 13 Lakotah reservations.[2][2] The Republic of Lakotah also uses
donations made by supporters for "Humanitarian Relief", supplying food and
new clothing, as well as providing propane for electricity for poorer people
living without them on the reservations.[2]
[edit]Politics and government
Citizenship is open to people of all races and to any resident of the land
Lakotah claims who is prepared to renounce their United States citizenship.[
2] The group plans to issue its own passports and driving licenses in the
name of the proposed nation.[7][15]
The Republic of Lakotah proposes that the nation be organized as a
confederation that would respect the libertarian principles of posse
comitatus and caveat emptor, would offer "individual liberty through
community rule," and would collect no nationwide taxes. However, individual
communities within the proposed nation would be allowed to levy taxes with
the consent of the taxed. No currency has yet been proposed but Russell
Means has suggested that the proposed nation should not use fiat currency
but instead adopt a gold standard.[9][16] Means has stated that this system
of government is derived from the traditional Lakota government system.[7][
17] Means said, "we are going to implement how we lived prior to the
Invasion. Each community will be a mini-state unto itself ... They will form
the federation known as Lakotah."[18] Currently, Russell Means identifies
himself as "Chief Facilitator" of a provisional government of the Republic
of Lakotah.[8] The provisional government is currently being operated out of
Treaty School/Ranch in Porcupine, South Dakota, on the Pine Ridge
reservation.[19]
The four signatories of the Lakota Freedom Delegation's letter to the State
Department that announced withdrawal from the US identified themselves by
the title of "itacan of Lakota" in a press release.[20] Leaders of
communities would be informally chosen by elders of the community.[17]
[edit]Government
The following people have identified themselves as members of the
provisional government of Lakotah, or been so identified by other members of
the movement:
Russell Means, chief facilitator
Tegheya Kte, also called by Garry Rowland, (fully Clarence Gary Anthony
Rowland), facilitator[21]
Phyllis Young, provisional government member[21]
Decisions within the community are traditionally made by Lakotah Elders, who
are valued for their experience. Lakotah Elders will continue to hold power
within an independent nation.
No formal capital of Lakotah has been announced. The Republic of Lakotah
gives its provisional capital as Porcupine, South Dakota with hopes in the
long run to move administration to near Rapid City, South Dakota.[22]
[edit]Connections with other movements
Through its membership and work, the Republic of Lakotah has several direct
ties to other activist movements among both the Indian and libertarian
communities.
Russell Means and Robert Robideau have both long been prominent in the
Autonomous American Indian Movement, with Means along with Tegheya Kte
having taken part in the Wounded Knee incident and Robideau acquitted in a
trial related to the Leonard Peltier case. Tegheya Kte, meanwhile, led the
Big Foot Riders in 2007[23], while Phyllis Young is a founder of the Women
of All Red Nations feminist movement.[24]
[edit]Assertion of independence
A press conference following submission of the withdrawal letter.
The Lakota Freedom Delegation traveled to Washington, D.C. and contacted the
United States Department of State, announcing that the Lakota were
unilaterally withdrawing from the several treaties between themselves and
the United States government. The delegation presented a letter, dated
December 17, 2007 and signed by longtime Indian activists Russell Means,
Garry Rowland, Duane Martin Sr. also called Canupa Gluha Mani, and Phyllis
Young, which declared the Lakota to be "predecessor sovereign of Dakota
Territory" and cited gross violations of the treaties between the Lakota and
the United States as the immediate cause for withdrawal. The letter also
invited the United States government to enter into negotiations with the
newly-declared entity, there identified only as "Lakotah." It threatened
that if good-faith negotiations were not begun then "Lakotah will begin to
administer liens against real estate transactions within the five state area
of Lakotah."[25]
The group also has pursued international recognition for the Lakotah at the
embassies of Venezuela, Bolivia, Chile, and South Africa and has claimed
that Ireland and East Timor are "very interested" in Lakotah's declaration
and that they expect recognition from Russia. Russell Means has made
reference to Finland and Iceland as well.[7][26] However, none of these
nations have publicly announced recognition for Lakotah.
[edit]Legal basis for independence
Traditional range of the Siouan peoples (dark green) and the current
reservations (orange)
Supporters of Lakotah argue that their assertion of sovereignty is entirely
legal under "Natural, International and United States law"[27]. The group
emphasizes that the Republic's establishment comes from a "withdrawal" from
the United States, not a secession.[7][16]
They argue that as an Indian tribe in the United States, the Lakota were
already and always have been a sovereign nation as guaranteed under Article
Six of the United States Constitution, bound to the United States Federal
Government by treaty. As such, the legal basis of such a state's
independence is argued to be the Lakota nation's withdrawal from the 1851
and 1868 Treaties of Fort Laramie, and the rejection of all United States
federal laws, executive orders, and other government acts since then, in
particular rejecting the Major Crimes Act, the General Allotment Act, the
Citizenship Act of 1924, the Indian Reorganization Act of 1934, the Indian
Claims Commission Act, Public Law 280 and the Termination Act.[18][28]
The group claims its authority to assert independence derives from a long
period of discussion and preparation involving a number of traditional
chiefs and tribal councils representing the following Indian reservations
and communities:
Pine Ridge Indian Reservation
Porcupine, South Dakota
Kyle, South Dakota
Rosebud Indian Reservation
Lower Brule Indian Reservation
Cheyenne River Indian Reservation
Standing Rock Indian Reservation
Flandreau Indian Reservation[29][30]
The group also claims the right to withdraw, on behalf of the Lakota people,
from the Treaties of Fort Laramie as a consequence of the Vienna Convention
on the Law of Treaties and the Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous
Peoples. Members argue that the decision in the case of Lone Wolf v.
Hitchcock, 187 U.S. 553 (1903) shows that the United States Government does
not adequately protect Indian rights.[25] Means also cites the Enabling Act
of 1889, stating that clauses protecting Indian sovereignty on the lands
comprising the states where the Lakota historically reside have been ignored
.[7]
In a 15 January 2008 news release, the Republic of Lakotah proposed that
independence from the United States might follow a Compact of Free
Association and suggested that the independence process could resemble that
of the Philippines, Palau, the Federated States of Micronesia or the
Marshall Islands.[10]
Russell Means has also stated that he intended to treat the result of the
2008 Pine Ridge Reservation Presidential election, in which he was a
candidate,[31] as a "plebiscite/referendum" on Lakota independence.[32]
[edit]Motivations for independence
Lakotah's founders cite the Oglala 1974 Declaration of Continuing
Independence:
The United States of America has continually violated the independent Native
Peoples of this continent by Executive action, Legislative fiat and
Judicial decision. By its actions, the U.S. has denied all Native people
their International Treaty rights, Treaty lands and basic human rights of
freedom and sovereignty. This same U.S. Government, which fought to throw
off the yoke of oppression and gain its own independence, has now reversed
its role and become the oppressor of sovereign Native people.[28]
The groups cite several reasons for its assertion of sovereignty, all
connected what they refer to as the "colonial apartheid" of the reservation
system in the United States. The group claims that control by the United
States has led to massive unemployment, poverty and disease among the Lakota
people and also alleges that 150 years of US administration is responsible
for the statistical poverty of Lakota lands. The group claims that
withdrawal from the United States will reverse these problems as well as
help reestablish the Lakota language and culture.[33][34] The group also
claims persistent violations by the United States of their treaties with the
Lakota.
Inyan Kara, in the Black Hills is a sacred mountain to the Lakotah.
Another longstanding point of contention between the Lakota and the United
States is the status of the Black Hills of South Dakota, which were part of
Sioux reservation lands until they were taken without compensation by the US
government and opened for gold mining following the collapse of the Treaty
of Fort Laramie (1868). In 1980 the U.S. Supreme Court decision United
States v. Sioux Nation of Indians awarded $105 million to eight tribes of
Sioux Indians as compensation ($17.1 million for the market value of the
land in 1877 and $88 million in 5% per annum simple interest between 1877
and 1980),[35][36] but the court did not award land. The tribal governments
of the Lakota has refused the settlement, and as interest accrues, the
unclaimed award is approaching $1 billion.[37]
[edit]Support and reactions
The extent of popular support among the Lakota people for independence is
unclear. Russell Means and Canupa Gluha Mani have claimed that some 13,000
Lakota, including 77% of the population of Pine Ridge Indian Reservation,
have shown support for the Republic of Lakotah, and that the 8-member
delegation which traveled to Washington, D.C. was only a portion of some 77
tribal elders and activists taking part in the movement.[7][38] However,
Rapid City Journal reporter Bill Harlan reported on his blog that "most
folks I talk to hadn’t heard about the declaration. The ones who had heard
the news, to a person, did not want to talk about it on the record."[39] The
Journal has also noted that "there were no tribal presidents in the group
which made the announcement, no one from the top ranks of any of the Lakota
Sioux tribes."[40] Nanwica Kciji, an Oglala Lakota and first president of
the Native American Journalists Association, has also discredited the
December 2007 developments, arguing that the Lakotah Freedom Delegation "
never considered that treaties are made between nations and not individuals.
"[41]
The Alaskan Independence Party, in an announcement dated December 21 2007, "
applauded" the independent Lakota nation and granted it "full recognition".[
42] The secessionist movement Second Vermont Republic has also announced its
support, and encouraged other American Indian groups to similarly declare
independence from the United States.[43]
[edit]Response from recognized Native American governments
The official tribal governments of the Lakota have had mixed reactions,
though none have yet adopted either faction's program.
Rodney Bordeaux, chairman of the Rosebud Sioux, said that Rosebud Indian
Reservation has no interest in joining the Republic of Lakotah and said that
the Lakota Freedom Delegation never presented their plan to the tribal
council.[17] Bordeaux stated that the group does not represent the Lakota
people nor the support of the elected tribal governments. However, he did
say that Russell Means "made some good points".[9]
Joseph Brings Plenty, chairman of the Cheyenne River Lakota, agreed that the
Lakota Freedom Delegation "are not representative of the nation I represent
" but would not say whether he agreed or disagreed with their goals and
message, noting some value in the group's actions in raising awareness for
the history of the Lakota people.[9]
Conversely, Avis Little Eagle, the vice-chairwoman of the Standing Rock
Sioux Tribal Council, has said that the Council of Standing Rock Reservation
will consider Russell Means's letter.[44]
Charmaine White Face, speaking for the Teton Sioux Treaty Council, has
announced:
There is a provision within the Fort Laramie Treaty of 1868 that our
ancestors, including my great-great grandparents, had included. Article 12
says the Treaty of 1868 could not be changed except by three-fourths of the
adult male vote. This was done expressly to protect the people, the land,
and our way of life. What are now called reservations, were originally
created as prisoner of war camps by the USA when they invaded our territory.
We are living as an occupied nation similar to the situation in Iraq where
the USA imposes its own form of government.
In the late 1870s, two other leaders, Spotted Tail and Red Cloud, were
coerced into trying to change the 1868 Treaty by the USA. Even though they
eventually signed what the US wanted, they also knew that without three-
fourths of the adult male approval, the 1868 Treaty could not be changed.
Russell Means is only one man and has not received the three-fourths adult
male approval. However, Russell Means' efforts remind the world that we
still have an international treaty with the USA.[45]
[edit]International response
Internationally, according to Russell Means, Venezuela's ambassador to the
United States has stated to the group that his country cannot recognize
Lakotah's independence based on Venezuela's interpretation of what the
Lakotah Freedom Delegation is doing.[7]
In February 2008, the Lakotah Freedom Delegation (including Means) handed
over a formal petition, asking for recognition of the Republic of Lakotah,
to the embassies of Russia, Serbia, Bolivia, Venezuela, the Republic of
South Africa, Ireland, France, Nicaragua, East Timor, Chile, Turkey, India,
Finland, Iceland and Uruguay. The text of the petition is available online.[
46]
[edit]U.S. Government response
The United States Department of State is referring queries on the subject of
Lakotah to the United States Department of the Interior, which oversees the
Bureau of Indian Affairs.[47]
Gary Garrison of the BIA said that the group's withdrawal "doesn't mean
anything." "These are not legitimate tribal governments elected by the
people ... when they begin the process of violating other people's rights,
breaking the law, they're going to end up like all the other groups that
have declared themselves independent — usually getting arrested and being
put in jail."[9]
Russell Means, on the subject of what the Republic of Lakotah expects the
federal government response to be, has stated that "I don't expect the
federal government to do anything. I don't believe they even know what to do
."[7]
[edit]References
^ Lakota Nation from UNPO
^ a b c d e f Jerry Reynolds (2007-12-28). "Delegates announce pullout from
U.S. treaties". Indian Country Today. Retrieved 2007-12-31.
^ "Map". Republic of Lakotah. Retrieved 2008-01-02.
^ "About". Lakota Oyate. Retrieved 2008-01-04.
^ "Treaty of Fort Laramie - 1851". Retrieved 2008-01-02.
^ "Tribal Energy Program: Rosebud Sioux Tribe - 1999 Project". U.S.
Department of Energy Energ Efficiency and Renewable Energy Information
Center. 2007-04-17. Retrieved 2008-01-01.
^ a b c d e f g h i Means, Russell. Interview with Ed Morissey. Heading
Right. Blogtalkradio. 2007-12-22. (Interview). Retrieved on 2008-01-05.
^ a b "Notice to All Foreign Governments and Private Owners of Real Estate
within the Republic of Lakotah" (PDF). Press release. 2008-01-01. Retrieved
2008-01-02.
^ a b c d e Gale Courey Toensing (2008-01-04). "Withdrawal from US treaties
enjoys little support from tribal leaders". Indian Country Today. Retrieved
2008-01-04.
^ a b "Republic of Lakotah focuses on Black Hills". 15 January 2008.
Retrieved 2008-01-02.
^ Andrea J. Cook (July 28, 2008). "Republic of Lakotah investigating tribal
corruption". Rapid City Journal. Retrieved 2008-07-28.
^ Jerry Collette (March 4, 2008). "The move for Lakotah independence".
Liberty For All. Retrieved 2008-03-04.
^ Heidi Bell Gease (November 19, 2008). "Pass Creek to vote again, OST
election results released". Rapid City Journal. Retrieved 2008-12-13.
^ Update on Republic of Lakotah at YouTube (requires Adobe Flash)
^ Catherine Elsworth (2007-12-26). "Sitting Bull's tribe declares
independence". The Daily Telegraph. Retrieved 2007-12-31.
^ a b Russell Means interview from December 26, 2007 on Free Talk Live
^ a b c Faith Bremner (2007-12-20). "Lakota group pushes for new nation".
Argus Leader. Retrieved 2007-12-31.
^ a b Republic of Lakota. Republic of Lakotah, hosted on YouTube. 2008-03-03
. Retrieved 2008-01-03.
^ "Republic of Lakotah web forum". Republic of Lakotah. 2008-07-01.
Retrieved 2008-08-01.
^ Lakota Freedom Delegation (2007-12-20). "Freedom! Lakota Sioux Indians
Declare Sovereign Nation Status". Press release. Retrieved 2007-12-31.
^ a b "REPORT". republicoflakotah.com. February 24, 2008. Retrieved 2008-03-
05.
^ "FAQ". Republic of Lakotah. Retrieved 2008-01-07.
^ "Chief Big Foot Riders Return To Wounded Knee, "We Want To Be Free"".
commondreams.org. December 27, 2007.
^ Josephy, Alvin M.; Joane Nagel, Troy R. Johnson (1999). Red Power: The
American Indians' Fight for Freedom. U of Nebraska Press. pp. 51. ISBN
0803225873.
^ a b Lakota Freedom Delegation. "Lakotah Unilateral Withdrawal from All
Agreements and Treaties with the United States of America" (PDF). Press
release. Retrieved 2008-01-05.
^ Bill Harlan (2007-12-20). "Lakota Sioux Secede From US, Declare
Independence". Rapid City Journal. Retrieved 2007-12-31.
^ "Media". Republic of Lakotah. Retrieved 2007-12-31.
^ a b "Declaration of Continuing Independence by the First International
Indian Treaty Council at Standing Rock Indian Country June 1974" (PDF).
Press release. 1974-06. Retrieved 2008-01-15.
^ "History". Republic of Lakotah. Retrieved 2007-12-31.
^ "History". Lakota Oyate. Retrieved 2008-01-03.
^ "Russell Means for President of Pine Ridge Sioux Indian Reservation".
Retrieved 2008-04-03.
^ Russell Means. Russell Means Freedom Part 1 YouTube Podcast accessed on
2008-04-03.
^ "Why". Republic of Lakotah. Retrieved 2007-12-31.
^ "Why". Lakota Oyate. Retrieved 2008-01-03.
^ "UNITED STATES v. SIOUX NATION OF INDIANS, 448 U.S. 371 (1980)". FindLaw.
Retrieved 2008-06-13.
^ Bill Harlan (December 19, 2007). "Lakota group secedes from U.S.". Rapid
City Journal. Retrieved 2007-12-19.
^ "Sioux Indians of Lakota Tribe Tell State Dept. of Succession". Le Monde.
Retrieved 2008-04-29.
^ Juxtaposeur. Interview with Canupa Gluha Mani - Lakota Freedom Delegation
Mind Viruses
^ Bill Harlan (2007-12-21). "Lakota Nation: no taxes!". Mount Blogmore, the
Rapid City Journal Politlcal Blog. Retrieved 2008-01-01.
^ Mikel LeFort (2007-01-20). "Lakota announcement: Where does it go?". Typos
and Tribulations: Behind the headlines with a Rapid City Journal editor.
Retrieved 2008-01-01.
^ Tim Giago. "Catering to That 10 Percent That Love to be Mascots".
Retrieved 2008-01-07.
^ Lynette Clark (2007-12-21). "Alaskan Independence Party". Retrieved 2008-
01-18.
^ "Lakota Independence Resolution". Second Vermont Republic. 15 January 2008
. Retrieved 2008-01-23.
^ Mike Nowatzki (2007-12-28). "Standing Rock official: Council to consider
treaty pullout". Grand Forks Herald. Retrieved 2008-01-01.
^ Charmaine White Face. "In response to the Press Release by Russell Means".
Retrieved 2008-01-20.
^ untitled
^ "For your query, we will refer you to the Department of the Interior. This
is not a State Department issue." Kirsten Petree, Director, Office of Media
Affairs, U.S. Department of State, private communication with Wikinews (
December 21, 2007)
[edit]External links
Wikinews has related stories:
Lakota activists declare secession from US
Lakota Freedom Delegation says spokesman Russell Means 'hijacked'
organization
Canupa Gluha Mani speaks about Lakota Oyate, Lakota freedom
'No treaty withdrawal', says Lakota elder
Republic of Lakotah
How to Participate in the Republic of Lakotah
Lakota Oyate
Russell Means discussing the Republic of Lakotah at YouTube (requires Adobe
Flash)
"Ways and Means" By Bill Donahue, Washington Post
Categories: Independence movements | Secession in the United States |
Proposed countries | Lakota | States and territories established in 2007 |
Disputed territories in North America
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☆─────────────────────────────────────☆
meiguohuaren (aa) 于 (Mon Feb 15 13:48:15 2010, 美东) 提到:
我可以买块地宣布独立吗?
☆─────────────────────────────────────☆
luketa (鲁克塔) 于 (Mon Feb 15 13:54:26 2010, 美东) 提到:
这个说法很赞!俺只能是惭愧自己啥都不知道。。。
☆─────────────────────────────────────☆
neohawk (neohawk) 于 (Mon Feb 15 13:57:18 2010, 美东) 提到:
跟被洗脑了的人讲这些没用的。以前有个美国同学也是这样,我就是像你这么说的,我
还跟他讲魁北克的例子。他想了半天说,我们和你们不同,我们是民主国家。LOL。
☆─────────────────────────────────────☆
luketa (鲁克塔) 于 (Mon Feb 15 14:04:46 2010, 美东) 提到:
俺也不想跟他纠缠。。。一说起政治什么的就头疼,sigh
☆─────────────────────────────────────☆
rove10 (Lion Cub║焚剑煮酒心已死) 于 (Mon Feb 15 14:06:18 2010, 美东) 提到:
如果你买的那块地是中国的,当然,你有独立的权利,你有反抗独裁的权利。
如果你买的那块地是美国的,“当然,你有独立的权利”, CNN跟你说。说完了以后,
CNN就报下一条新闻:一个名叫meiguohuaren的恐怖分子,试图侵入他人地盘,被英雄
的FBI发射100颗子弹打死了。这是民主的胜利,这是自由的胜利。
500年后,(假设美国还存在的话),国会通过一项声明,我们发现500年前杀死那个叫
meiguohuaren的恐怖分子可能证据遗失了。我们很遗憾有一部分民众误认为我们是滥用
暴力。
☆─────────────────────────────────────☆
dengy (Chairman Maobama) 于 (Mon Feb 15 14:07:45 2010, 美东) 提到:
LOL
☆─────────────────────────────────────☆
Satine (瓜呆小贼) 于 (Mon Feb 15 14:08:44 2010, 美东) 提到:
我觉得70%以上的藏民是不愿意独立的
☆─────────────────────────────────────☆
fook (kao) 于 (Mon Feb 15 14:10:30 2010, 美东) 提到:
上层藏人,年青藏人很反动,中下层,年级大些的藏人,很爱国
这个现象只能说明西藏局势和后来胡乱帮搞得那些教育有关.
☆─────────────────────────────────────☆
luketa (鲁克塔) 于 (Mon Feb 15 14:13:50 2010, 美东) 提到:
我也跟他说80%的藏民都是汉人移民,大多数人应该是不支持独立的。他倒是同意如果
大多数藏民都支持独立的前提下他的说法才能成立。
☆─────────────────────────────────────☆
fook (kao) 于 (Mon Feb 15 14:15:09 2010, 美东) 提到:
呵呵
你对牛弹琴还谈错了
☆─────────────────────────────────────☆
luketa (鲁克塔) 于 (Mon Feb 15 14:17:56 2010, 美东) 提到:
额 哈哈哈 我瞎掰的。。应该不到80%? 至少大城市我记得汉人比例还蛮高的。。。
☆─────────────────────────────────────☆
rove10 (Lion Cub║焚剑煮酒心已死) 于 (Mon Feb 15 14:17:59 2010, 美东) 提到:
对了,再跟他说一句,
让它先去推动魁北克独立吧,那个隔着美国还近,还是反抗独裁的加拿大政府,多么
glory的事情啊。等魁北克独立了,它还活着的话,就让它去继续推动西藏独立吧。
☆─────────────────────────────────────☆
fook (kao) 于 (Mon Feb 15 14:21:25 2010, 美东) 提到:
你这么说正好给他们口实,说汉人在有规模地大量移民,积压藏人的生存空间
其实西藏自古以来就是多民族混居的,在自治区内,有汉族,回族,门巴族,珞巴族,满族,
蒙古族.
西藏藏族人的人口是成倍增长的.这些人热爱祖国,反对民族分裂.
☆─────────────────────────────────────☆
hzh9999 (一不怕吃,二不怕喝) 于 (Mon Feb 15 14:21:26 2010, 美东) 提到:
正如上面网友说的, 让他查查南北战争时, 南方几个州的独立是合法的, 但是还不
是挨打。
至于西藏,达赖想独立于西藏人啥关系? 啥时说大多数西藏人想独立了?
☆─────────────────────────────────────☆
luketa (鲁克塔) 于 (Mon Feb 15 14:25:58 2010, 美东) 提到:
他的立论就是达赖是西藏民主代表,我说他们都是佛教统治的哪来民主。伊非说对于西
藏和中国媒体他偏向于第三方媒体或者是非官方媒体的说法,然后如果达赖真是农奴主
而不是民主人士欧洲各国和美国也不会支持他。我觉得他就是脑子进水了。。。太
ideal了。决定不跟他说了 头都大了
☆─────────────────────────────────────☆
luketa (鲁克塔) 于 (Mon Feb 15 14:26:35 2010, 美东) 提到:
额 我鹾了
☆─────────────────────────────────────☆
daye520 (AGOG) 于 (Mon Feb 15 14:26:47 2010, 美东) 提到:
这种情况下你跟他聊聊独裁者林肯如何让残酷镇压南方人民正义的独立诉求就可以了、
☆─────────────────────────────────────☆
fook (kao) 于 (Mon Feb 15 14:27:07 2010, 美东) 提到:
对牛弹琴么
遇到这种混蛋,你说你支持他去西藏独立,呵呵
☆─────────────────────────────────────☆
luketa (鲁克塔) 于 (Mon Feb 15 14:30:36 2010, 美东) 提到:
问题是他非要问我他的说法是不是对的,我说是吧那明显不对,要说不是又要跟我来理
论。真是麻烦lol 真该把他送到西藏去看看 这样才能让他闭嘴。。。
☆─────────────────────────────────────☆
puppylsy (dodo) 于 (Mon Feb 15 14:31:43 2010, 美东) 提到:
屁民主,转世了十几代,都他一个人统治。还民主。就算专制国家不过是
老子传儿子罢了。
☆─────────────────────────────────────☆
fook (kao) 于 (Mon Feb 15 14:31:47 2010, 美东) 提到:
送去也改不过来
这些人脑袋早洗白了
☆─────────────────────────────────────☆
puppylsy (dodo) 于 (Mon Feb 15 14:32:39 2010, 美东) 提到:
当年美洲,中东一堆独裁的,美国也支持。随便举几个例子就行了。
☆─────────────────────────────────────☆
puppylsy (dodo) 于 (Mon Feb 15 14:34:17 2010, 美东) 提到:
我觉得就算讨论来讨论去也没用。有空不如去干别的。
☆─────────────────────────────────────☆
hzh9999 (一不怕吃,二不怕喝) 于 (Mon Feb 15 14:34:22 2010, 美东) 提到:
http://www.michaelparenti.org/Tibet.html
有时间读读这篇。
☆─────────────────────────────────────☆
fook (kao) 于 (Mon Feb 15 14:37:19 2010, 美东) 提到:
用汉语骂他一句傻逼,直接忽视它就得了
☆─────────────────────────────────────☆
shuangguaw (双冠王) 于 (Mon Feb 15 14:41:10 2010, 美东) 提到:
说明还是有用的,他毕竟想了半天,还找不到合适的理由。
☆─────────────────────────────────────☆
SEM (Slow Eye Movement) 于 (Mon Feb 15 14:41:59 2010, 美东) 提到:
ft
南北战争啊
南北战争
☆─────────────────────────────────────☆
benchmark (maine) 于 (Mon Feb 15 14:43:58 2010, 美东) 提到:
你有时间的话可以多看看加拿大魁北克的例子,
加拿大宪法中,各省可以投票独立,只不过需要全国公民投票决定。
☆─────────────────────────────────────☆
shuangguaw (双冠王) 于 (Mon Feb 15 14:44:36 2010, 美东) 提到:
什么人是上层的藏人?以前的奴隶主,以前的统治者?
☆─────────────────────────────────────☆
fook (kao) 于 (Mon Feb 15 14:45:33 2010, 美东) 提到:
包括他们
还包括一些藏族先富,一些在邓小平主政期间受高等教育的藏族知识分子.
☆─────────────────────────────────────☆
cyw (口令) 于 (Mon Feb 15 14:58:20 2010, 美东) 提到:
美国是印第安人的地盘
印第安人想让美国人滚蛋
美国人滚吗?
☆─────────────────────────────────────☆
lookacar (想要一辆车) 于 (Mon Feb 15 15:04:34 2010, 美东) 提到:
你就说
what you are fuckingly talking about is fuckingly stupid.
you fuckingly go to the fucking hell
☆─────────────────────────────────────☆
cityfish (给我点儿阳光,让我灿烂) 于 (Mon Feb 15 15:28:59 2010, 美东) 提到:
叫他别扯淡了
为什么南北战争对美国政治体制和历史这么重要?
就是因为南北战争后明确了州权和联邦权
各州没有权利脱离联邦
这也是最著名的描写南北战争的电影
《一个国家的诞生》的来历。
N*****s
发帖数: 3324
3
[Solved]: 铊

【在 T****M 的大作中提到】
: ☆─────────────────────────────────────☆
: luketa (鲁克塔) 于 (Mon Feb 15 13:13:56 2010, 美东) 提到:
: 事情是从现在的阿富汗说起的。他认为美国民众不制止他们政府的战争行为是很可耻的
: 。然后又说到当年日本,说着说着就说道现在西藏。
: 然后他的理由是 如果西藏的民众都要求独立,其他外部人(比如我们)没有权利去帮
: 他们决定他们不能独立。比如说加州的民众都支持要独立成一个国家,美国政府是不能
: 干预的。最多是停止对加州的经济扶持,社会保障等等。我辩解是中国的中央政府和美
: 国联邦政府是完全不同的体系。他的意思是假设民主存在的情况下,中央政府是不能来
: 决定西藏人民是否愿意划入管辖。 然后我就囧了,但是也想不出理由来反驳。
: 实在不善于跟人辩驳,从自己是中国人的角度来说总觉得不可能让西藏分裂出去,但却

N*****s
发帖数: 3324
4
Or tell the idiot to google "Haunani-Kay Trask." Dr. Trask and her group
who advocates Hawaii independence have been harassed by the FBI on a daily
basis.
Or Ask the idiot to get out of Americans Indians' land.

【在 T****M 的大作中提到】
: ☆─────────────────────────────────────☆
: luketa (鲁克塔) 于 (Mon Feb 15 13:13:56 2010, 美东) 提到:
: 事情是从现在的阿富汗说起的。他认为美国民众不制止他们政府的战争行为是很可耻的
: 。然后又说到当年日本,说着说着就说道现在西藏。
: 然后他的理由是 如果西藏的民众都要求独立,其他外部人(比如我们)没有权利去帮
: 他们决定他们不能独立。比如说加州的民众都支持要独立成一个国家,美国政府是不能
: 干预的。最多是停止对加州的经济扶持,社会保障等等。我辩解是中国的中央政府和美
: 国联邦政府是完全不同的体系。他的意思是假设民主存在的情况下,中央政府是不能来
: 决定西藏人民是否愿意划入管辖。 然后我就囧了,但是也想不出理由来反驳。
: 实在不善于跟人辩驳,从自己是中国人的角度来说总觉得不可能让西藏分裂出去,但却

1 (共1页)
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