m********d
发帖数: 188 | 1 最近面试了A和M。A一直是我的dream公司，因此最初的计划是先面M当练手，第二天面A
。计划进行的
很好，面试过后基本都知道会拿到offer，只是不知道A的位置会是什么（level2或
level3，考虑到A
的"high bar"，3是很高的位置）。当时没考虑太多，居然两个公司都要求了一样的
total annual
compensation。M反应很快，也很热情，面完A的第二天就给了offer，超出要求的。当
时问了A何时
给offer，说下星期（几天后），并且试图问M的offer，感觉想bargain，又不想痛快告
知A的
range，我有些觉得不爽。后来考虑了几点因素（bellevue的居住条件好于seattle，我
不愿意
commute；M可能work load 低一些，对家庭有好处；A也不大可能offer再高很多了，而
且据
glassdoor review, work/life balance不好），就给M发email告知决定，M很高兴。此
时A又
打电话，坚持先不要签M的正式offer，等周一（今天）看A的offer。今天offer来了，
比M的高15%
（base和total annual compensation都高），而且是Level3的位置，并且是最想去的
team。
我对这个行业比较了解，G和A会是领先者，M会很困难，但是对搞技术的来说，没有大
的差别，都干一样
的活，只是在G或A会有更多的在技术上的自我满足感。
现在我的问题一是work/life balance，考虑到location, work load, culture,
benefit
等等（不考虑收入），是否M真的比A好？这个对我很重要，如果差别很大，就算高15%
也不考虑A了。另
一个问题是，如果想和M反悔，打算直接告知原因，尽管没有签正式的offer，是否还是
非常非常不好？
前几天在这儿看到一个类似的，也是签了M的offer想反悔，结果大家众说不一。没想到
落到我头上了。
哎！头疼啊，头疼！
（为了M的offer，已经据了前老板的工作邀请，尽管如果我愿意也可以要到比M高的
offer，但还是据
了，为此还请前老板吃了顿饭，解释一切为了家庭原因。） |
c***2
发帖数: 838 | 2 Niu X!!!
Admire!
If you already have family(spouse/kids), goto M
If you are still single, goto A |
g*********s
发帖数: 1782 | 3 the mistake u made was to accept m b/4 seeing a's river card. so probably
u can't negotiate with m now. but withdrawing ur acceptance should be
fine.
面A
【在 m********d 的大作中提到】
: 最近面试了A和M。A一直是我的dream公司，因此最初的计划是先面M当练手，第二天面A
: 。计划进行的
: 很好，面试过后基本都知道会拿到offer，只是不知道A的位置会是什么（level2或
: level3，考虑到A
: 的"high bar"，3是很高的位置）。当时没考虑太多，居然两个公司都要求了一样的
: total annual
: compensation。M反应很快，也很热情，面完A的第二天就给了offer，超出要求的。当
: 时问了A何时
: 给offer，说下星期（几天后），并且试图问M的offer，感觉想bargain，又不想痛快告
: 知A的
|
m******6
发帖数: 599 | 4 work life balance? of course M |
m********d
发帖数: 188 | 5
谢谢回复。work/life balance是我最关心的，能不能再多说说A和M在这方面的区别吗
？M对家庭好
在哪里？A为什么更适合young/single？的确是，我面的部门以年轻人居多。
【在 c***2 的大作中提到】
: Niu X!!!
: Admire!
: If you already have family(spouse/kids), goto M
: If you are still single, goto A
|
m********d
发帖数: 188 | 6
展开说说？
【在 m******6 的大作中提到】
: work life balance? of course M
|
m********d
发帖数: 188 | 7
probably
谢谢你的回复。我知道我犯了错误，太早接受M的offer，自我定位偏低，又不屑于和A
讨价还价，结果
现在悲剧了。现在没想再和谁讨价还价了，只是觉得虽然work life balance对家庭很
重要，但钱如
果是很多的话对家庭也很重要。考虑到A的发展和现在的起点，3-5年之后是会差相当多
的。现在纠结的
第一点是work life balance两个地方到底差多少；是否值得牺牲一个去换另一个（这
是我自己要回
答的问题）；以及反悔M的offer有多糟。我知道学校了经常会有开始说来后来又不来了
的，但不清楚公
司的情况。
【在 g*********s 的大作中提到】
: the mistake u made was to accept m b/4 seeing a's river card. so probably
: u can't negotiate with m now. but withdrawing ur acceptance should be
: fine.
:
: 面A
|
h***n
发帖数: 276 | 8 ask for a match for M, if not work, then you are free to pick A, they unders
tand that
all depends on you
company has not hurt
A
【在 m********d 的大作中提到】
:
: probably
: 谢谢你的回复。我知道我犯了错误，太早接受M的offer，自我定位偏低，又不屑于和A
: 讨价还价，结果
: 现在悲剧了。现在没想再和谁讨价还价了，只是觉得虽然work life balance对家庭很
: 重要，但钱如
: 果是很多的话对家庭也很重要。考虑到A的发展和现在的起点，3-5年之后是会差相当多
: 的。现在纠结的
: 第一点是work life balance两个地方到底差多少；是否值得牺牲一个去换另一个（这
: 是我自己要回
|
m********d
发帖数: 188 | 9
unders
这么说我感觉好多了。非常感谢。
【在 h***n 的大作中提到】
: ask for a match for M, if not work, then you are free to pick A, they unders
: tand that
: all depends on you
: company has not hurt
:
: A
|
j*****u
发帖数: 1133 | 10 work life balance also depends on the groups, managers, project and other fa
ctors, but in general MS is better here. It's hard to tell if you're going t
o busy or not based on company only. e.g. a lot of devs in Amazon needs to b
e on call , are you okay with it?
If you're fresh, $ is not the most important thing to make a decision. Proje
ct, manager, career path are more critical here.
btw, level 3 vs 2 in Amazon, are you talking about level or title (SDE III)?
A
【在 m********d 的大作中提到】
:
: unders
: 这么说我感觉好多了。非常感谢。
|
|
|
c***2
发帖数: 838 | 11 Single young people can work a lot of extra hours. Older people with kids
usually don't like that.
It's simple:
Work full 8 hours every day to earn 1150
or
Work only 5 hours every day to earn 1000
Which one do you pick?
【在 m********d 的大作中提到】
:
: unders
: 这么说我感觉好多了。非常感谢。
|
M7
发帖数: 219 | 12 M offer是哪个division的？
面A
【在 m********d 的大作中提到】
: 最近面试了A和M。A一直是我的dream公司，因此最初的计划是先面M当练手，第二天面A
: 。计划进行的
: 很好，面试过后基本都知道会拿到offer，只是不知道A的位置会是什么（level2或
: level3，考虑到A
: 的"high bar"，3是很高的位置）。当时没考虑太多，居然两个公司都要求了一样的
: total annual
: compensation。M反应很快，也很热情，面完A的第二天就给了offer，超出要求的。当
: 时问了A何时
: 给offer，说下星期（几天后），并且试图问M的offer，感觉想bargain，又不想痛快告
: 知A的
|
S********t
发帖数: 3431 | 13
在bellevue，猜是bing吧，bing还是挺不错得，据说升级快
【在 M7 的大作中提到】
: M offer是哪个division的？
:
: 面A
|
M7
发帖数: 219 | 14 how about GFS?
【在 S********t 的大作中提到】
:
: 在bellevue，猜是bing吧，bing还是挺不错得，据说升级快
|
j**w
发帖数: 382 | 15 Don't put RSUs from A into consideration, when comparing the compensation.
People said, A likes to dump bottom half (via PIP) after yearly performance
review. If that really happens, all of RSUs are void. |
g*********s
发帖数: 1782 | 16 what is bottom half, 50%? the turnover rate is so high?
compensation.
performance
【在 j**w 的大作中提到】
: Don't put RSUs from A into consideration, when comparing the compensation.
: People said, A likes to dump bottom half (via PIP) after yearly performance
: review. If that really happens, all of RSUs are void.
|
m********d
发帖数: 188 | 17
other fa
going t
to b
Proje
III)?
Thanks for reply. I'm not young anymore, so not very ambitious. money is
important, but 15% difference is not relatively significant. 3 is for
title, more like SDE III? but definitely on software dev section. Is SDE
III a high title in Amazon? I've been in "large start up" company, but
that's long time ago; I don't want try it again, just not sure if working
in Amazon would be same incredible busy.
【在 j*****u 的大作中提到】
: work life balance also depends on the groups, managers, project and other fa
: ctors, but in general MS is better here. It's hard to tell if you're going t
: o busy or not based on company only. e.g. a lot of devs in Amazon needs to b
: e on call , are you okay with it?
: If you're fresh, $ is not the most important thing to make a decision. Proje
: ct, manager, career path are more critical here.
: btw, level 3 vs 2 in Amazon, are you talking about level or title (SDE III)?
:
: A
|
m********d
发帖数: 188 | 18
kids
definitely later one. actually my current one is even better than it, but
just have to move due to family reason.
【在 c***2 的大作中提到】
: Single young people can work a lot of extra hours. Older people with kids
: usually don't like that.
: It's simple:
: Work full 8 hours every day to earn 1150
: or
: Work only 5 hours every day to earn 1000
: Which one do you pick?
|
m********d
发帖数: 188 | 19
compensation.
performance
haven't seen actual offer. is RSU the "sign on" bonus stuff? From the
verbal offer, A seems generous, offered xxx shares vested in 4 years, but
it would be considered as part of total annual compensation for these 4
years ( of course, there will be annual increase and extra shares granted
every year, so total annual compensation will grow since 1st year ). so
that's right, it's really not same as M's sign on bonus. however, even
spreading M's sign on bonus into 4 years and considering M's annual bonus,
A's offer still higher; considering total annual compensation may go up
every year with 1st year as base, after 5 years, I may make a lot more
than I would do in M. but now feel not that attractive to me.
Thanks for all replies.
【在 j**w 的大作中提到】
: Don't put RSUs from A into consideration, when comparing the compensation.
: People said, A likes to dump bottom half (via PIP) after yearly performance
: review. If that really happens, all of RSUs are void.
|
z***e
发帖数: 5393 | 20 你没sign就可以反悔。
lz做cloud的？
面A
【在 m********d 的大作中提到】
: 最近面试了A和M。A一直是我的dream公司，因此最初的计划是先面M当练手，第二天面A
: 。计划进行的
: 很好，面试过后基本都知道会拿到offer，只是不知道A的位置会是什么（level2或
: level3，考虑到A
: 的"high bar"，3是很高的位置）。当时没考虑太多，居然两个公司都要求了一样的
: total annual
: compensation。M反应很快，也很热情，面完A的第二天就给了offer，超出要求的。当
: 时问了A何时
: 给offer，说下星期（几天后），并且试图问M的offer，感觉想bargain，又不想痛快告
: 知A的
|
|
|
g***y
发帖数: 764 | 21 what is Amazon's SDE III? is that senior level? what is the one above SDE
III in Amazon then?
thanks a lot!
【在 m********d 的大作中提到】
:
: compensation.
: performance
: haven't seen actual offer. is RSU the "sign on" bonus stuff? From the
: verbal offer, A seems generous, offered xxx shares vested in 4 years, but
: it would be considered as part of total annual compensation for these 4
: years ( of course, there will be annual increase and extra shares granted
: every year, so total annual compensation will grow since 1st year ). so
: that's right, it's really not same as M's sign on bonus. however, even
: spreading M's sign on bonus into 4 years and considering M's annual bonus,
|
m********d
发帖数: 188 | 22
是cloud。请问了解两边的工作情况吗？我指的是和work/life balance相关的。
【在 z***e 的大作中提到】
: 你没sign就可以反悔。
: lz做cloud的？
:
: 面A
|
j*****u
发帖数: 1133 | 23 SDE III == Senior SDE in Amazon. What's the level of your MS offer? It
should be 64 or at least 63 to be comparable.
Senior title is more difficult to get in Amazon than MS. If your MS offer
cannot match that, don't consider it.
Level decides title and salary. So it's a very important factor to consider
since you're not fresh.SDE II -> Sr SDE is a difficult promotion after you
join the company. So try your best to get it upfront.
【在 m********d 的大作中提到】
:
: 是cloud。请问了解两边的工作情况吗？我指的是和work/life balance相关的。
|
z***e
发帖数: 5393 | 24 我有几个ms的朋友都是azure的，比较忙，虽然不on call，晚上周末加班也很经常，所
以不像ms其他组那么悠闲。升级速度相对较快，3年升两级吧（干得比较拼得前提）。
其中有个朋友前一阵也拿了amazon cloud组的offer，他说其实两边都比较忙，work
life balance都差不多，他看重的是那边promotion比较快，因为amazon不给他sde III
，他就没去了，说那还不如在azure再过两年就senior了，去amazon从II -> III似乎很
困难。
不过ms组多，你觉得azure太忙，也可以跳其它的嘛。amazon就都一样忙了...
【在 m********d 的大作中提到】
:
: 是cloud。请问了解两边的工作情况吗？我指的是和work/life balance相关的。
|
m********d
发帖数: 188 | 25
III
我不是搞软件的，希望不会那么忙。我相信A的III可能是比较高，不容易给。
Interview的时候，II
的工程师说起III的时候，能看出他们的向往。LOL
A的III对我也是一个很大的诱惑（甚至比15%的诱惑还大），但一想这也不能当饭吃，
也就不那么纠结
了。III上面是architect，再上是priciple。从III到architect要过pannel review，
不仅仅
是promotion。
不知道M的level，前面有人说A的III相当于M的63-64，不知是否对？让我问问M。
【在 z***e 的大作中提到】
: 我有几个ms的朋友都是azure的，比较忙，虽然不on call，晚上周末加班也很经常，所
: 以不像ms其他组那么悠闲。升级速度相对较快，3年升两级吧（干得比较拼得前提）。
: 其中有个朋友前一阵也拿了amazon cloud组的offer，他说其实两边都比较忙，work
: life balance都差不多，他看重的是那边promotion比较快，因为amazon不给他sde III
: ，他就没去了，说那还不如在azure再过两年就senior了，去amazon从II -> III似乎很
: 困难。
: 不过ms组多，你觉得azure太忙，也可以跳其它的嘛。amazon就都一样忙了...
|
z***e
发帖数: 5393 | 26 差不多，我那个朋友是62，所以A那边打死不给他III。如果是63-64(senior)，过去拿
III就顺理成章了。
【在 m********d 的大作中提到】
:
: III
: 我不是搞软件的，希望不会那么忙。我相信A的III可能是比较高，不容易给。
: Interview的时候，II
: 的工程师说起III的时候，能看出他们的向往。LOL
: A的III对我也是一个很大的诱惑（甚至比15%的诱惑还大），但一想这也不能当饭吃，
: 也就不那么纠结
: 了。III上面是architect，再上是priciple。从III到architect要过pannel review，
: 不仅仅
: 是promotion。
|
m********d
发帖数: 188 | 27
问了level，但是回答很奇怪，说开始工作了才能告诉我，并且我还不能告诉别人。现
在有点怀疑是不
是和III相当了。我没有拿两边的offer去讨价还价，所以两边都不知道我在对方拿的
offer。
【在 z***e 的大作中提到】
: 差不多，我那个朋友是62，所以A那边打死不给他III。如果是63-64(senior)，过去拿
: III就顺理成章了。
|
z***e
发帖数: 5393 | 28 then just ask for the title in M. SDEII=61-62, Senior=63-64. It makes sense
to know the job title, right?
【在 m********d 的大作中提到】
:
: 问了level，但是回答很奇怪，说开始工作了才能告诉我，并且我还不能告诉别人。现
: 在有点怀疑是不
: 是和III相当了。我没有拿两边的offer去讨价还价，所以两边都不知道我在对方拿的
: offer。
|
m********d
发帖数: 188 | 29
sense
i'm not sde though... but there IS "senior" in my title (but senior title
seems very common in M, no?), so it assumes to be 63-64? I asked M if it's
comparable to A's III, let's see what they say.
【在 z***e 的大作中提到】
: then just ask for the title in M. SDEII=61-62, Senior=63-64. It makes sense
: to know the job title, right?
|
m********d
发帖数: 188 | 30
title
it's
they said it is comparable to III or even higher. guess I can only find
out after getting in.
【在 m********d 的大作中提到】
:
: sense
: i'm not sde though... but there IS "senior" in my title (but senior title
: seems very common in M, no?), so it assumes to be 63-64? I asked M if it's
: comparable to A's III, let's see what they say.
|
|
|
j*****u
发帖数: 1133 | 31 principal?
Ask for the level, it should be written on the offer. Btw what's your title?
architect/researcher/lead?
Again level is important which decides title.
【在 m********d 的大作中提到】
:
: title
: it's
: they said it is comparable to III or even higher. guess I can only find
: out after getting in.
|
j**w
发帖数: 382 | 32
Rumor said, A won't put level in offer letter. The offer letter said, salary
$$$ as a software engineer, for example.
It's rumor said, please don't email me for more info since I don't know.
【在 m********d 的大作中提到】
:
: title
: it's
: they said it is comparable to III or even higher. guess I can only find
: out after getting in.
|
j**w
发帖数: 382 | 33
Rumor said the following:
(1) RSU: restricted stock units. Sign-On RSUs will mature over 4 years. But
if you leave earlier, you lose the un-mature part.
(2) Since people will stay in 4 years normally (to collect sign-on rsu), the
salary will very likely stay the same for 4 years unless they are promoted.
(3) Every year anyone with "below average" performance has a good chance to
put in "performance improve plan", aka PIP. Google it for more info.
Again, rumor said. Don't email me for more info since that's the only part I
know.
【在 m********d 的大作中提到】
:
: title
: it's
: they said it is comparable to III or even higher. guess I can only find
: out after getting in.
|
j**w
发帖数: 382 | 34
Rumor from an ex-HR of A (We have lost contacts, don't ask for more info.)
Levels in A.
4. SDE/SDET/PM I
5. SDE/SDET/PM II
6. SDE/SDET/PM III, SDE Manager I
7. Principal SDE/SDET/PM, Sr. SDE Manager
8. Sr. Principal SDE/SDET/PM. SDE Director.
Note
(1)Unlike M, in A, the level of your direct boss is always higher than yours.
(2)Very very few people in A hold Sr. Principal title. If any, their boss'
title is VP.
【在 m********d 的大作中提到】
:
: title
: it's
: they said it is comparable to III or even higher. guess I can only find
: out after getting in.
|
m********d
发帖数: 188 | 35
years. But
rsu), the
promoted.
chance to
part I
got formal offer letter. basically, I believe what is said above is
true. from what I heard, the "pricing" policy is to maintain
consistent total annual compensation. the first 4 yrs will be
ok, but what's gonna happen after 4 yrs assuming no big jump on base
/extra rsu during these 4 years? you have to be promoted
to help yourself maintain the relatively high total annual
compensation? what if you fail to get promotion? does it mean you
effectively fall into bottom 10%? very challenging environment
considering level iii's promotion requires panel review...
however, the first 4 yrs compensation is competitive even though not
very much...
【在 j**w 的大作中提到】
:
: Rumor from an ex-HR of A (We have lost contacts, don't ask for more info.)
: Levels in A.
: 4. SDE/SDET/PM I
: 5. SDE/SDET/PM II
: 6. SDE/SDET/PM III, SDE Manager I
: 7. Principal SDE/SDET/PM, Sr. SDE Manager
: 8. Sr. Principal SDE/SDET/PM. SDE Director.
: Note
: (1)Unlike M, in A, the level of your direct boss is always higher than yours.
|
m********d
发帖数: 188 | 36
salary
confirmed, this is true, no level info in offer letter.
【在 j**w 的大作中提到】
:
: Rumor from an ex-HR of A (We have lost contacts, don't ask for more info.)
: Levels in A.
: 4. SDE/SDET/PM I
: 5. SDE/SDET/PM II
: 6. SDE/SDET/PM III, SDE Manager I
: 7. Principal SDE/SDET/PM, Sr. SDE Manager
: 8. Sr. Principal SDE/SDET/PM. SDE Director.
: Note
: (1)Unlike M, in A, the level of your direct boss is always higher than yours.
|
