S**C
发帖数: 2964 | 1 On the flip side of it is why there are not many good active fund managers.
The guy will charge 50-80 basis point, will soft close the fund at around $
1B AUM, and even hard close if AUM go over, say $4B. Do not announce fund
closure except regulatory filing, that is, if you think you need to close
the fund, close it! He will buy a handful stocks and sit on it, and with
significant amount of own money invested in the fund. When there is not
enough opportunities, he let the cash build up.
Let's say the fund did well. The big problem (for the fund manager) is, as
an investor, OK I am happy with the fund performance, and I am happy with
the holdings, the WMT, JNJ, WFC world of things....but...but...but the guy
did not do much trading at all, why can't I just buy the wonderful stocks
myself and save 50-80 basis point?! | r****m
发帖数: 1204 | 2 You are referring to some of the elite fund managers who are in the hedge
fund world, with a lot less regulation and scrutiny, and could sit on the
boards of the companies they buy and influence the companies' strategies and
directions ...
这些人要不成功也难。。。
不过这样的人也是凤毛麟角的，out of reach for most investors. | E******w
发帖数: 2616 | 3 I still can't quite understand the following.
If a fund manager is extremely good, and say if he still wants to manage
funds for others just for the sake of his own legacy, then, at least, he
does not really have to "serve" his customers. I mean, the guy is probably
much richer and free-er than his customers. Yes, the customers did pay
something, but why the fund manager should feel any responsibility at all?
He just do whatever he wants to do, right? Then, in this case, what did the
customers actually "buy"?
The next question is, if a fund manager choose to work responsibly even if
he realizes that he does not have to, I guess such fund managers should be
very rare. Overall, how many people in the world have such a good attitude
toward life, especially when dealing with a big pile of money?
If good fund managers are indeed very difficult to find, then, anyone can
tell me your suggestion on how to find them? How to distinguish good ones
from bad ones?
Since you love actively managed fund, I guess you have good answers to the
above questions?
【在 S**C 的大作中提到】
: On the flip side of it is why there are not many good active fund managers.
: The guy will charge 50-80 basis point, will soft close the fund at around $
: 1B AUM, and even hard close if AUM go over, say $4B. Do not announce fund
: closure except regulatory filing, that is, if you think you need to close
: the fund, close it! He will buy a handful stocks and sit on it, and with
: significant amount of own money invested in the fund. When there is not
: enough opportunities, he let the cash build up.
: Let's say the fund did well. The big problem (for the fund manager) is, as
: an investor, OK I am happy with the fund performance, and I am happy with
: the holdings, the WMT, JNJ, WFC world of things....but...but...but the guy
| M********r
发帖数: 278 | 4 all these talks about ER got me thinking, how much does it cost to run a
fund with 1B AUM?
we need one manager, let's say we pay him 1 mil; two traders with 200K each,
one accountant 150K, one IT guy, 150K, 5 sales (60Kx5=300K). total: 2 mil.
I don't think we need a full time lawyer. Analyst? no, the manger should do
the work. So 2 mil in salary ( Are the salaries generous enough? I have no
idea) let's throw in year end bonus 100%. 4 million.
rest is rent, trading cost, IT equipment, legal service. (no idea how to
estimate)
after that, the fund company takes home.
Now typical ER of an active fund is ~ 1%. that amounts to 10 mil. 4 million
in salary and bonus, 6 million for the rest.
Is this estimate reasonable? my feeling is that for a stand alone fund, 1%
of 1 million is about right. but for a large fund company, there is room to
cut ER, say to 50-80 basis points. | E******w
发帖数: 2616 | 5 I always think the minimum cost is just to hire an accountant living an
apartment in the basement. The guy just need to receive orders from
customers and then buy and sell index ETF. No intelligent work is needed at
all. Just some accountant calculation (probably automated by computer
already) to calculate the closing price of the index fund.
And, if it is not because our government that forces us to consider these
funds in the 401K accounts, why we can't buy/sell index ETFs directly by
ourselves? We do not even need to pay the accountant and his rent of the
basement apartment.
each,
.
do
【在 M********r 的大作中提到】
: all these talks about ER got me thinking, how much does it cost to run a
: fund with 1B AUM?
: we need one manager, let's say we pay him 1 mil; two traders with 200K each,
: one accountant 150K, one IT guy, 150K, 5 sales (60Kx5=300K). total: 2 mil.
: I don't think we need a full time lawyer. Analyst? no, the manger should do
: the work. So 2 mil in salary ( Are the salaries generous enough? I have no
: idea) let's throw in year end bonus 100%. 4 million.
: rest is rent, trading cost, IT equipment, legal service. (no idea how to
: estimate)
: after that, the fund company takes home.
| M********r
发帖数: 278 | 6 i forgot marketing cost, employer benefits, what else? | r****m
发帖数: 1204 | 7 Talent is priceless. Your scenario is for fund mgrs in the mutual fund
business. But the truly good ones once they realize they have such talent
will start their own hedge funds ...
They do still work for money as they start out, but once they don't work for
money anymore, reputation is what they work to maintain ... you will be
lucky and need lots connections/assets if you can get on one of these people
's funds. | m*********y
发帖数: 1890 | 8 re
unless one has 8 digit asset, do not expect fund expense will transfer to
alpha advantage.
even hedge fund return is not guaranteed, neither short term nor long term.
for
people
【在 r****m 的大作中提到】
: Talent is priceless. Your scenario is for fund mgrs in the mutual fund
: business. But the truly good ones once they realize they have such talent
: will start their own hedge funds ...
: They do still work for money as they start out, but once they don't work for
: money anymore, reputation is what they work to maintain ... you will be
: lucky and need lots connections/assets if you can get on one of these people
: 's funds.
| w***n
发帖数: 1519 | 9 Good fund managers, especially the hedge fund managers, are difficult to
find, partly because:
1. You need to be super rich for them to be interested in your business.
Many funds require > 1M for initial investment. A lot of them are managing
investment for pension funds, endowments, foundations, etc.
2. You need to have connections to get your money managed by them. In the
past, hedge funds were not allowed to advertise. Now the ban has been lifted
, but how many ads have you seen? They aren't really interested in doing
that.
the
【在 E******w 的大作中提到】
: I still can't quite understand the following.
: If a fund manager is extremely good, and say if he still wants to manage
: funds for others just for the sake of his own legacy, then, at least, he
: does not really have to "serve" his customers. I mean, the guy is probably
: much richer and free-er than his customers. Yes, the customers did pay
: something, but why the fund manager should feel any responsibility at all?
: He just do whatever he wants to do, right? Then, in this case, what did the
: customers actually "buy"?
: The next question is, if a fund manager choose to work responsibly even if
: he realizes that he does not have to, I guess such fund managers should be
| E******w
发帖数: 2616 | 10 and this means that trying to learn trading myself is not a bad idea?
lifted
【在 w***n 的大作中提到】
: Good fund managers, especially the hedge fund managers, are difficult to
: find, partly because:
: 1. You need to be super rich for them to be interested in your business.
: Many funds require > 1M for initial investment. A lot of them are managing
: investment for pension funds, endowments, foundations, etc.
: 2. You need to have connections to get your money managed by them. In the
: past, hedge funds were not allowed to advertise. Now the ban has been lifted
: , but how many ads have you seen? They aren't really interested in doing
: that.
:
| | | w***n
发帖数: 1519 | 11 Not if you are or will be successful.
【在 E******w 的大作中提到】
: and this means that trying to learn trading myself is not a bad idea?
:
: lifted
| E******w
发帖数: 2616 | 12 没有人在做这些选择的时候能够保证自己一定会成功的。
【在 w***n 的大作中提到】
: Not if you are or will be successful.
| S**C
发帖数: 2964 | 13 Folks at Sequoia, PRIMECap, and Mr. Yacktman Senior come to mind in the MF
world, not exactly ideal, but close.
lifted
【在 w***n 的大作中提到】
: Good fund managers, especially the hedge fund managers, are difficult to
: find, partly because:
: 1. You need to be super rich for them to be interested in your business.
: Many funds require > 1M for initial investment. A lot of them are managing
: investment for pension funds, endowments, foundations, etc.
: 2. You need to have connections to get your money managed by them. In the
: past, hedge funds were not allowed to advertise. Now the ban has been lifted
: , but how many ads have you seen? They aren't really interested in doing
: that.
:
| B***t
发帖数: 115 | 14 我看fidelity的一些fund还可以阿，比如biotech的还有high tech的，表现都比index
强多了啊。
【在 S**C 的大作中提到】
: Folks at Sequoia, PRIMECap, and Mr. Yacktman Senior come to mind in the MF
: world, not exactly ideal, but close.
:
: lifted
| w***n
发帖数: 1519 | 15 Be careful what you are comparing against.
I have to ask: What index? biotech/high tech indexes?
index
【在 B***t 的大作中提到】
: 我看fidelity的一些fund还可以阿，比如biotech的还有high tech的，表现都比index
: 强多了啊。
| B***t
发帖数: 115 | 16 明白了。我只是和S&P 500比。
推荐个biotech的ETF?
【在 w***n 的大作中提到】
: Be careful what you are comparing against.
: I have to ask: What index? biotech/high tech indexes?
:
: index
| w***n
发帖数: 1519 | 17 IBB, XBI are the most popular ones. Just an observation, not a
recommendation, not especially if you had to ask about this, which indicates
you may not understand the risks.
This is a single sector, no diversification, very volatile. Some years hot,
other times not. If you just look at the most recent years, sure, it went up
huge. If you trace back in the history a bit longer, not so special about
this sector...
Having said that, there is some macro-trend happening, because of Obamacare,
because of baby boomers getting old, and because of some breakthroughs in
the biotech...
Your money, your decision.
【在 B***t 的大作中提到】
: 明白了。我只是和S&P 500比。
: 推荐个biotech的ETF?
| w***n
发帖数: 1519 | 18 I like T Rowe Price New Horizon. Unfortunately, again, it's closed to new
investors.
【在 S**C 的大作中提到】
: Folks at Sequoia, PRIMECap, and Mr. Yacktman Senior come to mind in the MF
: world, not exactly ideal, but close.
:
: lifted
|
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