l***y
发帖数: 4671 | 1 唉。。。
Anonymous on January 5, 2015 at 10:02 PM said:
I am in my late thirties and from all indications I have been very
successful. I am reasonably funded and I publish in good journals. All of my
colleagues say that I will be a star but what they don’t know is that I
have been trying to leave the profession for over 3 years. I was extremely
gutted when my colleagues gave me tenure. I was hoping that they will do my
dirty work for me so that I could leave academia without any guilt.
I am disillusioned about research in the US and currently highly stressed
due to fear of losing funding. My current grants run out in about two years
and I am scared that if they are not renewed my life will fall apart. I have
been doing high tempo research since graduate school and this is all that I
know. Due to this “unreasonable fear” I write many grants every year to
maximize my chances. Of course many get triaged and that fuels my extreme
unhappiness and anxiety, which then leads to more grant submissions and a
never-ending cycle. In October and November 2014, this fear drove me to
simultaneously write 4 grants, whiles teaching and doing other duties and
when I finally submitted those grants I knew that this craziness can not
continue. I will lose my spouse and children if I continue this lifestyle.
And it has not been lost on me that a few academics that I know have had
failed marriages and I squarely put the blame on our unreasonable working
environment. My children hardly see me because I am always working and
writing grants. I need an escape route from this crazy lifestyle. How could
someone as well educated as me work this hard just to survive in their job?
I was the top of my class from kindergarten till PhD and got “A” grades in
all my classes. I was prodigious in mathematics, physics and chemistry and
also did well in biology. I could have chosen any career and any university
but decided to do a PhD at one of the best universities in the world,
believing that I will save more lives via research. My father was angry that
I rejected medical school and for many years we had a strained relationship
. I thought I was special and my dad did not understand my talent but now I
know that the old man was absolutely right. I am now upset that my former
class colleagues, who had inferior grades than me, but who were smarter than
me to go to medical school are now surgeons and they do not worry about
their careers plummeting before their 40th birthday. I am jealous of my
other classmates who went into pharmacy, dentistry etc and do not have any
fears about their job. I would have been a gret surgeon (I have always done
great in whatever I choose). Basically I was a fool in believing that my
talents should be used for scientific research and for the betterment of
mankind. I should have been selfish and chosen a career that serves me first
. So why should I encourage anyone to choose scientific research? That will
be very dishonest of me, considering how I now feel.
I have thought endlessly about leaving my academic position to go to medical
school but I now have two kids and can’t afford to do so. Also I don’t
want to disappoint my dad again as he has finally warmed up to me becoming a
professor. I feel trapped in this career. I suffer from back pains and I
think it is due to the stress and depression of the job. I think about
leaving academia for industry or a government job almost everyday, but worry
that leaving a tenured position to industrial position is crazy. But what
use if tenure without funding stability?
But a system that funds only 10% of basic scientist and expect the 90% to
survive is just a crazy system. How can the other 90% survive? Every time
that I serve on study panels, I get depressed. We rip each other apart
during the review process over trivial things because they is very little to
go round. Universities also seem to value us based on how much research
dollars we bring in. When new graduate students arrive, I hear some of the
non-academic staff gossip about who has funding and who hasn’t. Very
embarrassing for colleagues who have fallen on hard times. I literally have
nightmares of not bringing in money and the university taking away my lab
space. Don’t say this is an unreasonable fear- as if this has not happened
before! I once visited an institution for a talk and my host was so annoyed
that after 20 years of continuous funding and probably bringing in over $10
million, they were throwing him to the lions because he had lost funding!
What happened to loyalty and the several millions of indirect cost over the
years? This situation is terrible and I wish someone had told me all of this
before I threw my life away to become an academic. Fix the funding system.
Give scientists some stability so that they can enjoy science again. All of
these professors are very smart people who could have made more money in
other professions but chose science because of a higher calling and now the
majority are depressed, I think. The system is broken.
And I haven’t even started talking about the other stress of being an
academic when you do not belong to the majority class and trying to get
funding. If you factor in that blacks are less likely to get funding than
any other group, all things being equal-I am quoting a report in the journal
science, then you can multiply the funding stress felt by the majority of
academics by 10 to get the magnitude of the stress that black academics are
feeling. We are just being crushed! |
h*****w
发帖数: 8561 | 2 这人发这贴和老李在本版BSO基本差不多意思,发泄以后该干嘛还是干嘛. |
a**********y
发帖数: 2367 | 3 hehe. it's all because there are too many foreigners in the business.
imagine if only those born in US are allowed to get faculty position...then
you could get one by just getting a PhD degree. there ill be only 10%
competitors so the funding rate will be ~100%
haha. |
M****o
发帖数: 4860 | 4 But a system that funds only 10% of basic scientist and expect the 90% to
survive is just a crazy system. How can the other 90% survive?
写十个proposal不就完了
又不是只fund固定的10%人
这逻辑
my
my
years
have
I
could
in
and
university
that
relationship
I
than
done
first
will
medical
a
worry
to
have
happened
annoyed
10
the
this
.
of
the
journal
are
【在 l***y 的大作中提到】
: 唉。。。
: Anonymous on January 5, 2015 at 10:02 PM said:
: I am in my late thirties and from all indications I have been very
: successful. I am reasonably funded and I publish in good journals. All of my
: colleagues say that I will be a star but what they don’t know is that I
: have been trying to leave the profession for over 3 years. I was extremely
: gutted when my colleagues gave me tenure. I was hoping that they will do my
: dirty work for me so that I could leave academia without any guilt.
: I am disillusioned about research in the US and currently highly stressed
: due to fear of losing funding. My current grants run out in about two years
|
s******g
发帖数: 3841 | 5 but they couldn't have enough phd students to work for them -- still a
crash of the career.
then
【在 a**********y 的大作中提到】
: hehe. it's all because there are too many foreigners in the business.
: imagine if only those born in US are allowed to get faculty position...then
: you could get one by just getting a PhD degree. there ill be only 10%
: competitors so the funding rate will be ~100%
: haha.
|
A******y
发帖数: 2041 | 6 You don't need a big lab to do science. A PI has too many student should
also be discouraged.
【在 s******g 的大作中提到】
: but they couldn't have enough phd students to work for them -- still a
: crash of the career.
:
:
: then
|
l***y
发帖数: 4671 | 7 这个也有图。具体来说，2013 年 R01 的 funding rate 是 22%，定义为一个 PI 拿到
钱的（先验）概率。Award rate 是 16%，定义为一个 submission 成功的概率。
success rate 大约是 17.5%，定义为一个 idea 成功的概率，包括了 resubmission。
而且我觉得这个数字比我感觉到的要高啊。
从图上看，目前的 funding 是 90 年以来最差的，而且还在继续变差。
http://nexus.od.nih.gov/all/2014/03/05/comparing-success-award-
【在 M****o 的大作中提到】
: But a system that funds only 10% of basic scientist and expect the 90% to
: survive is just a crazy system. How can the other 90% survive?
: 写十个proposal不就完了
: 又不是只fund固定的10%人
: 这逻辑
:
: my
: my
: years
: have
|
h*****w
发帖数: 8561 | 8 基本就是10%不到的人拿走了大部分钱.
好多大牛LAB比如说老李这种,不说写一个中一个,基本也是写两个中一个(比如说我前老
板就是写两个中一个),下面做分母的就是我这种小虾,写10个哪可能中一个啊
【在 M****o 的大作中提到】
: But a system that funds only 10% of basic scientist and expect the 90% to
: survive is just a crazy system. How can the other 90% survive?
: 写十个proposal不就完了
: 又不是只fund固定的10%人
: 这逻辑
:
: my
: my
: years
: have
|
m**k
发帖数: 1008 | |
w**********e
发帖数: 557 | 10 Do you have enough time to do other things if you have write 10 to get 1?
★ 发自iPhone App: ChineseWeb 8.6
【在 M****o 的大作中提到】
: But a system that funds only 10% of basic scientist and expect the 90% to
: survive is just a crazy system. How can the other 90% survive?
: 写十个proposal不就完了
: 又不是只fund固定的10%人
: 这逻辑
:
: my
: my
: years
: have
|
|
|
s**********e
发帖数: 33562 | 11 老李早就过了写一个中一个的阶段了，一般老李写一个会中两个。
【在 h*****w 的大作中提到】
: 基本就是10%不到的人拿走了大部分钱.
: 好多大牛LAB比如说老李这种,不说写一个中一个,基本也是写两个中一个(比如说我前老
: 板就是写两个中一个),下面做分母的就是我这种小虾,写10个哪可能中一个啊
|
T*******g
发帖数: 2322 | 12 感觉挺可怜的。。。
相比之下我们这种学科真幸福啊。不用操心钱 |
A******y
发帖数: 2041 | 13 He/she also got bad advises when he/she was applying for graduate schools.
You can still do research with only a MD degree. It is also easier to get
grants from NIH as a MD. The only pitfall is that most MDs will not do
research because the lifestyle is bad. I only did my PhD because I didn't
get into medical school, lol!!! |
L***s
发帖数: 9258 | 14 今年这几个proposal眼看质量可真差啊。
【在 s**********e 的大作中提到】
: 老李早就过了写一个中一个的阶段了，一般老李写一个会中两个。
|
e*******e
发帖数: 248 | 15 老李又开始BSO。2015才一个星期就好几个本子了。
【在 L***s 的大作中提到】
: 今年这几个proposal眼看质量可真差啊。
|
s******y
发帖数: 28562 | 16 那些有两个以上R01的人拿走了大部分的钱。
我记得前一阵子看到另外一个图，好像是说钱都集中在那Top10% 的实验室去了，剩下
一堆人连汤都喝不到。
【在 l***y 的大作中提到】
: 这个也有图。具体来说，2013 年 R01 的 funding rate 是 22%，定义为一个 PI 拿到
: 钱的（先验）概率。Award rate 是 16%，定义为一个 submission 成功的概率。
: success rate 大约是 17.5%，定义为一个 idea 成功的概率，包括了 resubmission。
: 而且我觉得这个数字比我感觉到的要高啊。
: 从图上看，目前的 funding 是 90 年以来最差的，而且还在继续变差。
: http://nexus.od.nih.gov/all/2014/03/05/comparing-success-award-
|
a****e
发帖数: 1662 | 17 这么年轻就光知道抱怨。真有水平的人，有这抱怨的时间，好几个proposals写好了。
呵呵。
my
my
years
【在 l***y 的大作中提到】
: 唉。。。
: Anonymous on January 5, 2015 at 10:02 PM said:
: I am in my late thirties and from all indications I have been very
: successful. I am reasonably funded and I publish in good journals. All of my
: colleagues say that I will be a star but what they don’t know is that I
: have been trying to leave the profession for over 3 years. I was extremely
: gutted when my colleagues gave me tenure. I was hoping that they will do my
: dirty work for me so that I could leave academia without any guilt.
: I am disillusioned about research in the US and currently highly stressed
: due to fear of losing funding. My current grants run out in about two years
|
a****e
发帖数: 1662 | 18 hahaha.............你该说: "老李写一个会中5个"...
【在 s**********e 的大作中提到】
: 老李早就过了写一个中一个的阶段了，一般老李写一个会中两个。
|
l***y
发帖数: 4671 | 19 这个抱怨的家伙，看来也是刚拿了 tenure 有好几个 awards 而且被同事们看作
rising star 的，去年十月到十一月间，两个月交了 4 个 proposals。所以看起来也
不是只知道抱怨不知道埋头努力的人。甚至都属于胖老师说的拿走了大部分钱的 top
10% 的那些 PIs。
【在 a****e 的大作中提到】
: 这么年轻就光知道抱怨。真有水平的人，有这抱怨的时间，好几个proposals写好了。
: 呵呵。
:
: my
: my
: years
|
E*****e
发帖数: 417 | 20 温拿写grants写吐的抱怨贴，起码这厮拿了R1拿了T，抱怨个球。
【在 l***y 的大作中提到】
: 这个抱怨的家伙，看来也是刚拿了 tenure 有好几个 awards 而且被同事们看作
: rising star 的，去年十月到十一月间，两个月交了 4 个 proposals。所以看起来也
: 不是只知道抱怨不知道埋头努力的人。甚至都属于胖老师说的拿走了大部分钱的 top
: 10% 的那些 PIs。
|
|
|
s******y
发帖数: 28562 | 21 基本上就是来BSO的吧。类似于本版老李抱怨自己的学生不肯听他的劝说去申请教职而
一定要进大公司一样，属于来当豆豆的。
【在 l***y 的大作中提到】
: 这个抱怨的家伙，看来也是刚拿了 tenure 有好几个 awards 而且被同事们看作
: rising star 的，去年十月到十一月间，两个月交了 4 个 proposals。所以看起来也
: 不是只知道抱怨不知道埋头努力的人。甚至都属于胖老师说的拿走了大部分钱的 top
: 10% 的那些 PIs。
|
A******y
发帖数: 2041 | 22 If it is not BSO, he doesn't have to mention that he is tenured and under 40.
【在 s******y 的大作中提到】
: 基本上就是来BSO的吧。类似于本版老李抱怨自己的学生不肯听他的劝说去申请教职而
: 一定要进大公司一样，属于来当豆豆的。
|
s******y
发帖数: 28562 | 23 恩，越说越让人窝火。
40.
【在 A******y 的大作中提到】
: If it is not BSO, he doesn't have to mention that he is tenured and under 40.
|
l***y
发帖数: 4671 | 24 所以才看得我郁闷啊：这还有混出来的那一天么。。。
【在 s******y 的大作中提到】
: 基本上就是来BSO的吧。类似于本版老李抱怨自己的学生不肯听他的劝说去申请教职而
: 一定要进大公司一样，属于来当豆豆的。
|
m***c
发帖数: 1403 | 25 我真不觉得这是BSO，像是真心的在complain.
【在 s******y 的大作中提到】
: 基本上就是来BSO的吧。类似于本版老李抱怨自己的学生不肯听他的劝说去申请教职而
: 一定要进大公司一样，属于来当豆豆的。
|
h*****w
发帖数: 8561 | 26 见到庄MM的老爸,他摇头叹气说女儿不容易,做这么好炸药奖估计都没戏了
人家也不是BSO,是真心的在COMPLAIN
【在 m***c 的大作中提到】
: 我真不觉得这是BSO，像是真心的在complain.
|
z*****8
发帖数: 1051 | 27 I'll get tenure before 35, feeling very much like him.
40.
【在 A******y 的大作中提到】
: If it is not BSO, he doesn't have to mention that he is tenured and under 40.
|
h*****w
发帖数: 8561 | 28 你们大牛牛和我们小虾关心的事情是不一样的,你们关心的是要改变科学现状,要改变人
类命运,至少要开创一个学科方向.
我关心的是这个月的PAYCHECK能不能拿到,上面的数字有没有可能多一点,稍微高大上一
点也就关心关心学生的PAYCHECK能不能拿到,另外他们离开我以后PAYCHECK还能不
能拿到,其它什么高大上对我毫无意义.
【在 z*****8 的大作中提到】
: I'll get tenure before 35, feeling very much like him.
:
: 40.
|
n******g
发帖数: 662 | 29 赞
【在 z*****8 的大作中提到】
: I'll get tenure before 35, feeling very much like him.
:
: 40.
|
