m******p
发帖数: 67 | 1 我做Biology. 两个FACULTY OFFER， 各有优劣。不知道选哪个。请大家提提建议。
1） Tier 3 Univ. STARTUP 700K. no need to teach. Location is ok. salary is 10K more than that of the 2nd one.
2) Tier 1 Univ. ranking 比100稍好一些. Startup about 350K. about 20% teaching. Location is better the first one. Research environment is also slightly better.
For the first one, it is really good that it is 100% research with much more startup funding. But the university is really lowly ranked.
For the 2nd one, it is slightly better ranked and |
l*******s
发帖数: 3562 | 2 排名100怎么还是Tier 1呢？你的Tier 1的定义是啥
more
year
【在 m******p 的大作中提到】
: 我做Biology. 两个FACULTY OFFER， 各有优劣。不知道选哪个。请大家提提建议。
: 1） Tier 3 Univ. STARTUP 700K. no need to teach. Location is ok. salary is 10K more than that of the 2nd one.
: 2) Tier 1 Univ. ranking 比100稍好一些. Startup about 350K. about 20% teaching. Location is better the first one. Research environment is also slightly better.
: For the first one, it is really good that it is 100% research with much more startup funding. But the university is really lowly ranked.
: For the 2nd one, it is slightly better ranked and
|
b*****d
发帖数: 61690 | 3 USnews ranking
【在 l*******s 的大作中提到】
: 排名100怎么还是Tier 1呢？你的Tier 1的定义是啥
:
: more
: year
|
l*******s
发帖数: 3562 | 4 难道Tier 1的意思不是前五十名吗？
【在 b*****d 的大作中提到】
: USnews ranking
|
f*******l
发帖数: 8811 | 5 以前这个 ranking 是前五十多 tier1, 再 50多 tier2, 以此类推。
最近两年前100多都合成一个 tier1 乐。
【在 b*****d 的大作中提到】
: USnews ranking
|
w******t
发帖数: 1422 | 6 no teaching means your title is nor professor. then in a university, your
salary is from soft money, which means not stable. |
S***n
发帖数: 102 | 7 It appears that Tier 1 is for Rank 1 to 50, Tier 2 for Rank 51-100, Tier 3
for Rank 101-150, etc. Therefore, a university at a rank close to 100 in Tier
2 may be no different from another at a rank of ~150 in Tier 3. Furthermore,
the rankings were based more on the undergraduate education not so much on
research. In fact, rankings based on research are completely different from
these in the US News. Plus, research competencies and reputations in
individual departments are different from the over |
m******p
发帖数: 67 | 8 Why no teaching is bad for long term? |
m******p
发帖数: 67 | 9 both universities provide hard money. |
m******p
发帖数: 67 | 10 no one mentions that difference in startup package (about 300K). this
appears to be the deciding factor for me. I dont know if Ｉam doing it right
? |
|
|
b******6
发帖数: 51 | 11 try to ask the second one for more money |
r********r
发帖数: 735 | 12 没人相信一个tier 3的学校会给70万的startup，还没有teaching responsibility。
right
【在 m******p 的大作中提到】
: no one mentions that difference in startup package (about 300K). this
: appears to be the deciding factor for me. I dont know if Ｉam doing it right
: ?
|
m******p
发帖数: 67 | 13 this tier 3 university indeed provides good startup. it also has 10K more
salary. and no teaching is required, which i really like. I of course do not
like the fact that it is so lowly ranked, but feel difficult to resist this
300K more startup.
if you were me, what is your choice? |
m******p
发帖数: 67 | 14 i tried to ask more from the 2nd one, but this seems to be unpractical. they
really wanted to provide better startup, but this seems to be standard in
that university. no much room to negotiate. |
d***a
发帖数: 13752 | 15 The ranking by tier is not accurate. Some teaching colleges are in Tier 1
and some major research universities in Tier 3. What are their graduate
school rankings in your major?
An extra 300K startup (equivalent to 45K with 50% overhead) is about the
size of an NSF career, which is good. Expectation for you to generate fund
overhead is also high, though.
not
this
【在 m******p 的大作中提到】
: this tier 3 university indeed provides good startup. it also has 10K more
: salary. and no teaching is required, which i really like. I of course do not
: like the fact that it is so lowly ranked, but feel difficult to resist this
: 300K more startup.
: if you were me, what is your choice?
|
a**********e
发帖数: 67 | 16 I would assume tier-3 university is more teaching oriented. How come they
don't require you to teach? Is it just for the first year or two?
You should also consider family issue. The second school is not only
better and also has a better location. If your (future) significant other
wants a career, you will realize how difficult it is in a less desirable
location.
more
not
this
【在 m******p 的大作中提到】
: this tier 3 university indeed provides good startup. it also has 10K more
: salary. and no teaching is required, which i really like. I of course do not
: like the fact that it is so lowly ranked, but feel difficult to resist this
: 300K more startup.
: if you were me, what is your choice?
|
m******p
发帖数: 67 | 17 the graduate school for tier-3 univ is very lowly ranked. the graduate
school for the tier-1 univ is even better, about 60 something.
the first univ indeed does not require teach for all 6 years until tenure
happens.
yes, location and environment are really important, and I of course like the
second one. but i just cannot resist more money.
i guess this is really hard to decide. but thank you for these suggestions. |
m******p
发帖数: 67 | 18 I really do not have experience, but I think startup does not have indirect
cost (overhead), right?
if the grant is from NIH, there NIH offers an overhead. But if all is from
the department (or university), I feel there is no overhead. at least, no
one mentioned it to me before. |
r********r
发帖数: 735 | 19 I'd choose to wake up.
In current economic situation, there is no way for a low ranked school to provide 700k startup for an AP. Last year, I heard someone recruited as a chairman for a school ranked about 150
only got a startup of 600k. Of course, maybe your definition of startup is different.
not
this
【在 m******p 的大作中提到】
: this tier 3 university indeed provides good startup. it also has 10K more
: salary. and no teaching is required, which i really like. I of course do not
: like the fact that it is so lowly ranked, but feel difficult to resist this
: 300K more startup.
: if you were me, what is your choice?
|
e****g
发帖数: 4434 | 20 医学院不要teaching
10K more than that of the 2nd one.
teaching. Location is better the first one. Research environment is also
slightly better.
more startup funding. But the university is really lowly ranked.
but startup is only half, and I will have to spend about 2-3 month per year
to teach.
【在 m******p 的大作中提到】
: 我做Biology. 两个FACULTY OFFER， 各有优劣。不知道选哪个。请大家提提建议。
: 1） Tier 3 Univ. STARTUP 700K. no need to teach. Location is ok. salary is 10K more than that of the 2nd one.
: 2) Tier 1 Univ. ranking 比100稍好一些. Startup about 350K. about 20% teaching. Location is better the first one. Research environment is also slightly better.
: For the first one, it is really good that it is 100% research with much more startup funding. But the university is really lowly ranked.
: For the 2nd one, it is slightly better ranked and
|
|
|
m******p
发帖数: 67 | 21 erkang (摇头晃脑的小肥猪), what do you mean '医学院不要teaching'?
you mean it is not good to teach in medical school? why? |
m******p
发帖数: 67 | 22 ratbutcher, according to you, the startup for this tier-3 univ is really
good. someone told me this is so so. I really do not have much experience.
really difficult to decide. in terms of work, seems the tier-3 is better. in
terms of life, seems tier-1 is better. it all depends on what i want. |
d***a
发帖数: 13752 | 23 Given the information, I would likely choose #2. The extra start-up is very
nice, but start-up is not that important in the package. I would rank school
reputation, salary and location as factors of higher importance than start-
up. In some research area, $300K ($450K equivalent with 50% overhead)
is just the size of a single fund. Staying in a school with a decent ranking, the chance to get a proposal funded is higher, possibly significantly higher, than a school with a very low ranking (unless
【在 m******p 的大作中提到】
: the graduate school for tier-3 univ is very lowly ranked. the graduate
: school for the tier-1 univ is even better, about 60 something.
: the first univ indeed does not require teach for all 6 years until tenure
: happens.
: yes, location and environment are really important, and I of course like the
: second one. but i just cannot resist more money.
: i guess this is really hard to decide. but thank you for these suggestions.
|
A******y
发帖数: 2041 | 24 miniprep,
Is your Tier 3 university really a university? or is it a research
institution with a graduate program (hence the low ranking)? It is probably
also smaller compare to the large one like Scripps and Sloan-Kettering. I
will be very worry about its offer if it is from a small research institute
because as far as I know, a lot of them don't really have that much hard
money left. You can actually tell this by checking out if its faculties are
leaving to either bigger or state universitie |
m******p
发帖数: 67 | 25 digua and atyary, i believe you are really experts. let me reply digua first.
i completely agree with you that the 300K could be nothing in the long run.
but in my situation, both the universities are not very decent (although one
is better than the other). the funding opportunity could also be quite
similar.
for the short term, before tenure review happens, this 300K seems to mean a
lot (2 postdocs work for 3 years). |
m******p
发帖数: 67 | 26 artyarty, i belive you are really an expert. thank you for your valuable
information.
1) this tier-3 university is not an institute; it is a university. (i will
ask you a related question later)
2) for this tier-3 university, it is all hard money, and 5 years of full
salary guaranteed. after that, they hope at least some percentage salary
will come from external funding.
3) the tier-1 university is indeed a large state university. all is hard
money also. in fact, they try to use this fact (all h |
l*h
发帖数: 4124 | 27 this is too good to be true, 5 years full salary guaranteed. don't you need
reappointment, say at the end of the 3rd year?
convince
【在 m******p 的大作中提到】
: artyarty, i belive you are really an expert. thank you for your valuable
: information.
: 1) this tier-3 university is not an institute; it is a university. (i will
: ask you a related question later)
: 2) for this tier-3 university, it is all hard money, and 5 years of full
: salary guaranteed. after that, they hope at least some percentage salary
: will come from external funding.
: 3) the tier-1 university is indeed a large state university. all is hard
: money also. in fact, they try to use this fact (all h
|
A******y
发帖数: 2041 | 28 The tier-3 university sounds too good to be true to me. So you may want to
ask more questions i.e. where the money coming from. Do they get a huge
donation etc? A lot of private university fund are taking a huge hit in
2008. Also, if it is a university, as a professor on a tenure track, how
can you achieve tenure if in the faculty handbook states that you have to
teach to get tenured (check out the faculty handbook!!!). Also, like the
poster above mentioned, there should be a three year rev
【在 m******p 的大作中提到】
: artyarty, i belive you are really an expert. thank you for your valuable
: information.
: 1) this tier-3 university is not an institute; it is a university. (i will
: ask you a related question later)
: 2) for this tier-3 university, it is all hard money, and 5 years of full
: salary guaranteed. after that, they hope at least some percentage salary
: will come from external funding.
: 3) the tier-1 university is indeed a large state university. all is hard
: money also. in fact, they try to use this fact (all h
|
l*h
发帖数: 4124 | 29 那就更邪乎了，在医院做的assistant professor通常合同先只签一年 |
A******y
发帖数: 2041 | 30 Well, if he is MD/PhD, and majority of his service will be with patients, I
can understand that. Also, the clinicians tenure system is really different
than a Ph.D.'s. So what I said does not apply. Most time their salaries
are also separated between research and clinical works because the money
come from two different sources. However, it doesn't sound like what the
poster is describing. |
|
|
l*h
发帖数: 4124 | 31 这人要真有clinical duty还这么糊涂，真的是没的混了。他如果真想别人给意见，应
该把什么学校说出来。现在搞得神神秘秘的。5年没教学责任的tenure-track也是几乎
不可能的。
I
different
【在 A******y 的大作中提到】
: Well, if he is MD/PhD, and majority of his service will be with patients, I
: can understand that. Also, the clinicians tenure system is really different
: than a Ph.D.'s. So what I said does not apply. Most time their salaries
: are also separated between research and clinical works because the money
: come from two different sources. However, it doesn't sound like what the
: poster is describing.
|
m******p
发帖数: 67 | 32 Artyarty, basically what you said is exactly right.
1) Yes, the chair indeed mentioned the number 50/50, but this will happen
after 5 years.
2) “In addition, do they give all your start-up fund upfront (unlikely), so
you have to weight this out. ”
I dont understand very well the meaning of this sentence. But the startup
will be given in 3 years.
3) this is exactly true that the tier-1 university has lots of students,
based on which labs run, and their pay is much low.
4) I am glad that you, an e |
f****b
发帖数: 314 | 33 a female faculty is always 神神秘秘的 and needs more suggestions...
【在 l*h 的大作中提到】
: 这人要真有clinical duty还这么糊涂，真的是没的混了。他如果真想别人给意见，应
: 该把什么学校说出来。现在搞得神神秘秘的。5年没教学责任的tenure-track也是几乎
: 不可能的。
:
: I
: different
|
m******p
发帖数: 67 | 34 forgive me for being a female, which was indeed an advantage in landing a
faculty job. |
f****b
发帖数: 314 | 35 congragulations for your offers...
It seems female is good reason to join a tie 3 unversity...
【在 m******p 的大作中提到】
: forgive me for being a female, which was indeed an advantage in landing a
: faculty job.
|
f******2
发帖数: 1027 | 36 是的，已经合了好几年了，前100多的都是tier1。没有tier2了。
【在 f*******l 的大作中提到】
: 以前这个 ranking 是前五十多 tier1, 再 50多 tier2, 以此类推。
: 最近两年前100多都合成一个 tier1 乐。
|
f*******e
发帖数: 689 | 37 don't care too much about school rank. startup money and salary are more
important.
【在 m******p 的大作中提到】
: erkang (摇头晃脑的小肥猪), what do you mean '医学院不要teaching'?
: you mean it is not good to teach in medical school? why?
|
