i*********5
发帖数: 19210 | |
t****u
发帖数: 10218 | |
w**m
发帖数: 924 | 3 赞版大忠贞不渝，爱他就要包容他。
【在 t****u 的大作中提到】
: Why?
|
n******d
发帖数: 3583 | 4 Why not?
【在 t****u 的大作中提到】
: Why?
|
p********r
发帖数: 3799 | 5 LA is a fighter. I wish he could race in IM someday. |
j******8
发帖数: 1006 | 6 he is both a fighter and a cheater, what he did hurt a lot of people but
also help a lot of people thru his cancer research. i have a mix feeling
about him. |
t****u
发帖数: 10218 | 7 如果当初戴是支持同癌症作斗争，那么继续吧
如果当初戴着是对LA的崇敬，那么再想一想？
【在 n******d 的大作中提到】
: Why not?
|
i*********5
发帖数: 19210 | 8 I was wearing it for fighting cancer! I'm still wearing it for fighting
cancer!
【在 t****u 的大作中提到】
: 如果当初戴是支持同癌症作斗争，那么继续吧
: 如果当初戴着是对LA的崇敬，那么再想一想？
|
w********6
发帖数: 12977 | 9 我特别不能理解的是，那些 coach potato， 从来没有认真跑步骑车过，训练过，在那
里插着腰骂 Lance Armstrong, 仿佛自己是正义的化身，我只想说： fuck you and go
to hell |
c*******r
发帖数: 13580 | 10 I didn't even watch the interview and I have no intention to. Just shut the
fuck and ride. I don't give a rat's ass about whether he doped or not. The
cycling pros live in a parallel universe and we will never cross path with
them.
go
【在 w********6 的大作中提到】
: 我特别不能理解的是，那些 coach potato， 从来没有认真跑步骑车过，训练过，在那
: 里插着腰骂 Lance Armstrong, 仿佛自己是正义的化身，我只想说： fuck you and go
: to hell
|
|
|
S*******t
发帖数: 174 | 11 It's not about the dope. That I could forgive. It's not even about how he
lied to the media and lied under oath. Everybody lies. This scum bag tried
to destroy the lives of everyone who spoke the truth against him over the
years. Lance belongs to jail if he is not mentally ill. He does not deserve
any media attention. He should just go away. And for the record, Lance's
cancer foundation does NOT fund cancer research. It is a cancer patient
empowerment foundation that aims to promote the awesomeness of none but
Lance himself. It takes a true egomaniac to do all that and still being able
to sleep at night.
【在 j******8 的大作中提到】
: he is both a fighter and a cheater, what he did hurt a lot of people but
: also help a lot of people thru his cancer research. i have a mix feeling
: about him.
|
S*******t
发帖数: 174 | 12 Dude, with all due respect, you may want to cut up that band. Just like how
my wife burned her bible after finding out that Jesus Christ was one big lie.
【在 i*********5 的大作中提到】
: I was wearing it for fighting cancer! I'm still wearing it for fighting
: cancer!
|
i*********5
发帖数: 19210 | 13 Yes, the way he attacked whoever said truth about him was nasty and awful!
But he's making amends now after the bubble's burst. Even Betsy was sort if
starting to forgive him the next day on ABC. (She was furious the night
before on CNN.)
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/lance-armstrong-confession-lanc
And yes his foundation was not directly for cancer research. But we have to
acknowledge that it did help the cancer community.
He was up here for a "Ride with Lance" and raised $1.3 million for the
hospital where my dad was treated for his cancer.
http://sunnybrook.ca/foundation/media/item.asp?c=3&i=376&page=
I'm still wearing the yellow band for now, but that might change according
to how things play out in the future.
deserve
★ 发自iPhone App: ChineseWeb 7.8
【在 S*******t 的大作中提到】
: It's not about the dope. That I could forgive. It's not even about how he
: lied to the media and lied under oath. Everybody lies. This scum bag tried
: to destroy the lives of everyone who spoke the truth against him over the
: years. Lance belongs to jail if he is not mentally ill. He does not deserve
: any media attention. He should just go away. And for the record, Lance's
: cancer foundation does NOT fund cancer research. It is a cancer patient
: empowerment foundation that aims to promote the awesomeness of none but
: Lance himself. It takes a true egomaniac to do all that and still being able
: to sleep at night.
|
O****e
发帖数: 3290 | 14 Re
【在 p********r 的大作中提到】
: LA is a fighter. I wish he could race in IM someday.
|
O****e
发帖数: 3290 | 15 Re
go
【在 w********6 的大作中提到】
: 我特别不能理解的是，那些 coach potato， 从来没有认真跑步骑车过，训练过，在那
: 里插着腰骂 Lance Armstrong, 仿佛自己是正义的化身，我只想说： fuck you and go
: to hell
|
O****e
发帖数: 3290 | 16 Lance is a good man. The way his children defended him and their being so
calm and forgiving after his confession tells it all. |
S*******t
发帖数: 174 | 17 By that measure, so is Hitler.
【在 O****e 的大作中提到】
: Lance is a good man. The way his children defended him and their being so
: calm and forgiving after his confession tells it all.
|
i*********5
发帖数: 19210 | 18 After some deep thought, I decided to take the yellow band off my wrist. Not
that I don't support cancer fighting anymore, I just couldn't justify
supporting a foundation setup and promoted by LA anymore.
I lost my dad to cancer last summer, so fighting cancer and raising cancer
awareness would still be my life-long mission. That will never change.
LA is still a great cyclist (for beating other dopers and stood on top of
the TdF podium 7 times), and he won his own war against cancer. For these
two aspects, I still respect him. But other than these two aspects, he's no
longer my hero.
【在 S*******t 的大作中提到】
: By that measure, so is Hitler.
|
M****m
发帖数: 3243 | 19 scratch off the V in livestrong, it's still legit.
Not
no
【在 i*********5 的大作中提到】
: After some deep thought, I decided to take the yellow band off my wrist. Not
: that I don't support cancer fighting anymore, I just couldn't justify
: supporting a foundation setup and promoted by LA anymore.
: I lost my dad to cancer last summer, so fighting cancer and raising cancer
: awareness would still be my life-long mission. That will never change.
: LA is still a great cyclist (for beating other dopers and stood on top of
: the TdF podium 7 times), and he won his own war against cancer. For these
: two aspects, I still respect him. But other than these two aspects, he's no
: longer my hero.
|
h*****a
发帖数: 1992 | 20 为啥呢? Livestrong现在也跟LA没有关系了。LA不是chairman也不是board member. LA
的功过自有人评论，不过Livestrong怎么说也是一功。
Not
no
【在 i*********5 的大作中提到】
: After some deep thought, I decided to take the yellow band off my wrist. Not
: that I don't support cancer fighting anymore, I just couldn't justify
: supporting a foundation setup and promoted by LA anymore.
: I lost my dad to cancer last summer, so fighting cancer and raising cancer
: awareness would still be my life-long mission. That will never change.
: LA is still a great cyclist (for beating other dopers and stood on top of
: the TdF podium 7 times), and he won his own war against cancer. For these
: two aspects, I still respect him. But other than these two aspects, he's no
: longer my hero.
|
|
|
b*********n
发帖数: 2284 | 21 really? why did he bully his former teammates?
【在 O****e 的大作中提到】
: Lance is a good man. The way his children defended him and their being so
: calm and forgiving after his confession tells it all.
|
S*******t
发帖数: 174 | 22 Here is a quote from letsrun:
****
“Virtually everything in Armstrong’s life was built on a fraud. …
Armstrong is not like Barry Bonds or Roger Clemens — who, by all accounts,
were rich, famous and headed for the Hall of Fame before they started using
performance-enhancing drugs. Without doping, Armstrong would be just another
guy. That was never enough for him – which, of course, is why he doped.”
- Sports Illustrated‘s Michael Rosenberg.
We 100% agree. Don’t feel sorry for Lance’s big fall or that he lost $75
million in a day. He’d be a nobody had he not cheated. And for everyone who
thinks “Oh he just was competing on a level playing field – he would have
won if the sport was clean,” please realize cycling insiders don’t
believe that’s true. Lance has a naturally very low hematocrit level and
thus doping benefits him way more than most. (Someone feel free to prove us
wrong as we know Lance’s VO2 Max is off the charts)
****
Not
no
【在 i*********5 的大作中提到】
: After some deep thought, I decided to take the yellow band off my wrist. Not
: that I don't support cancer fighting anymore, I just couldn't justify
: supporting a foundation setup and promoted by LA anymore.
: I lost my dad to cancer last summer, so fighting cancer and raising cancer
: awareness would still be my life-long mission. That will never change.
: LA is still a great cyclist (for beating other dopers and stood on top of
: the TdF podium 7 times), and he won his own war against cancer. For these
: two aspects, I still respect him. But other than these two aspects, he's no
: longer my hero.
|
f**********e
发帖数: 1994 | 23 From GS Elevator Gossip @GSElevator (twitter)
"#1: Drugs to pro athletes is like plastic surgery to actors. They're here
to entertain me. Who gives a fuck."
the
【在 c*******r 的大作中提到】
: I didn't even watch the interview and I have no intention to. Just shut the
: fuck and ride. I don't give a rat's ass about whether he doped or not. The
: cycling pros live in a parallel universe and we will never cross path with
: them.
:
: go
|
p********r
发帖数: 3799 | 24 好吧，不带黄色的了，那我找一根粉色的送你 :D |
J********e
发帖数: 2284 | 25 晚上突然发觉自己手上的那个黄胶圈不见了。回头看到一脸坏笑的小儿子，想起来给他
洗澡时，把它脱下来给他玩，然后就不知所踪。这可真巧。被这小子藏起来的东西，基
本是有去无回。但如果还能找到，我还会把它带上。
这个黄胶圈对我的用处，一是表明自己cyclist的身份：开车在路上遇到骑车人，我把
带圈的左手伸到窗外挥一下，骑车人看到了，知道遇到了道上的朋友，于是放心前行。
没了这个胶圈，我得费力地把袖子撸到肩头来展示自己的tan line，很不方便而且容易
被误会成暴露狂。
第二个原因和楼主一样，表示自己对抗癌事业的支持。LiveStrong是世界上最有影响力
的抗癌慈善组织，支持LiveStrong是最简单直接不过的参与方法。它的创办人现在丑闻
缠身，但我本来就对他，以及其他职业车手，以及各种比赛，以及圈子里的各种新闻八
卦，的关注度很低。他的兴衰荣辱，一点也不影响我对自行车运动的热爱 - 对于我而
言，这个运动的全部意义就是：Ride! |
p********r
发帖数: 3799 | 26 对最后一段话，很有同感。
大家都不要再为这件事纠结了。喜欢这项运动的人，不应该为这件事改变的。不喜的人
，也不要以此为借口，打击抹黑这项运动。毕竟这项运动的实质是ride, 而不是doping.
【在 J********e 的大作中提到】
: 晚上突然发觉自己手上的那个黄胶圈不见了。回头看到一脸坏笑的小儿子，想起来给他
: 洗澡时，把它脱下来给他玩，然后就不知所踪。这可真巧。被这小子藏起来的东西，基
: 本是有去无回。但如果还能找到，我还会把它带上。
: 这个黄胶圈对我的用处，一是表明自己cyclist的身份：开车在路上遇到骑车人，我把
: 带圈的左手伸到窗外挥一下，骑车人看到了，知道遇到了道上的朋友，于是放心前行。
: 没了这个胶圈，我得费力地把袖子撸到肩头来展示自己的tan line，很不方便而且容易
: 被误会成暴露狂。
: 第二个原因和楼主一样，表示自己对抗癌事业的支持。LiveStrong是世界上最有影响力
: 的抗癌慈善组织，支持LiveStrong是最简单直接不过的参与方法。它的创办人现在丑闻
: 缠身，但我本来就对他，以及其他职业车手，以及各种比赛，以及圈子里的各种新闻八
|
t****u
发帖数: 10218 | 27 可以考虑road ID
【在 J********e 的大作中提到】
: 晚上突然发觉自己手上的那个黄胶圈不见了。回头看到一脸坏笑的小儿子，想起来给他
: 洗澡时，把它脱下来给他玩，然后就不知所踪。这可真巧。被这小子藏起来的东西，基
: 本是有去无回。但如果还能找到，我还会把它带上。
: 这个黄胶圈对我的用处，一是表明自己cyclist的身份：开车在路上遇到骑车人，我把
: 带圈的左手伸到窗外挥一下，骑车人看到了，知道遇到了道上的朋友，于是放心前行。
: 没了这个胶圈，我得费力地把袖子撸到肩头来展示自己的tan line，很不方便而且容易
: 被误会成暴露狂。
: 第二个原因和楼主一样，表示自己对抗癌事业的支持。LiveStrong是世界上最有影响力
: 的抗癌慈善组织，支持LiveStrong是最简单直接不过的参与方法。它的创办人现在丑闻
: 缠身，但我本来就对他，以及其他职业车手，以及各种比赛，以及圈子里的各种新闻八
|
i*********5
发帖数: 19210 | 28 就是有点儿贵，好处是有很多颜色可选。
【在 t****u 的大作中提到】
: 可以考虑road ID
|
m******r
发帖数: 9604 | 29 路挨地给我的印象是promote safety，不是fight cancer，也不代表toughness啊
【在 t****u 的大作中提到】
: 可以考虑road ID
|
O****e
发帖数: 3290 | 30 Why does US bully other countries?
Why does China bully some other Asian countries ?
Although I don't agree with the 2nd claim,
many others certainly firmly believe so.
【在 b*********n 的大作中提到】
: really? why did he bully his former teammates?
|
|
|
m******r
发帖数: 9604 | 31 去年我们这里有个half ironman的比赛，有一支接力队伍还真的用了liestrong这个名
字。我一开始很替壮壮不忿，可是一看他们自行车段的成绩是2小时10分（56迈），就
觉得他们还是有资格拿壮壮开涮的。如果他们的时间是2个多小时的话那就只能是个
joke了。用键盘损一下别人谁都会，可是要付诸实际行动还是需要本钱的。
【在 M****m 的大作中提到】
: scratch off the V in livestrong, it's still legit.
:
: Not
: no
|
O****e
发帖数: 3290 | 32 Just my thought. Also deep.
Hitler? 这个帽子太高了吧
【在 S*******t 的大作中提到】
: By that measure, so is Hitler.
|
m******r
发帖数: 9604 | 33 第一个问题的答案是因为别的国家不肯dope免煮柿油，呵呵
【在 O****e 的大作中提到】
: Why does US bully other countries?
: Why does China bully some other Asian countries ?
: Although I don't agree with the 2nd claim,
: many others certainly firmly believe so.
|
m******r
发帖数: 9604 | 34 元首最近频频躺枪，被杰瑞鼠和速度羊轮番调侃
【在 O****e 的大作中提到】
: Just my thought. Also deep.
: Hitler? 这个帽子太高了吧
|
w********6
发帖数: 12977 | 35 Doping 到底有多大作用？ 当时Lance七冠的时候，前几名的都没有doping么？
我觉得没有完全了解这个背景，还是先别下结论说， 没有douping， Lance would be
a nobody. |
w********6
发帖数: 12977 | 36 Doping 对于短跑这种爆发的有颠倒乾坤的作用（again， i am just guessing), 我很
怀疑对于endurance sport 有决定性的左右。
让我来服药，我还是跑不过如花，baiji，和最近破3的同学们。 |
z*********n
发帖数: 94654 | 37 没有doping说不定是七连亚，有一些sports junkie会记得他，大部分人估计记不得
这种东西我觉得就是类似几万块钱的车一样，多付出很多，提高百分之零点几的
Performance
但在顶级运动员之间，差得就是那么毫厘的
be
【在 w********6 的大作中提到】
: Doping 到底有多大作用？ 当时Lance七冠的时候，前几名的都没有doping么？
: 我觉得没有完全了解这个背景，还是先别下结论说， 没有douping， Lance would be
: a nobody.
|
w********6
发帖数: 12977 | 38 哈哈，老三还骑车么，我的自行车几年木有东，车胎都彻底瘪了在车库生锈
【在 z*********n 的大作中提到】
: 没有doping说不定是七连亚，有一些sports junkie会记得他，大部分人估计记不得
: 这种东西我觉得就是类似几万块钱的车一样，多付出很多，提高百分之零点几的
: Performance
: 但在顶级运动员之间，差得就是那么毫厘的
:
: be
|
S*******t
发帖数: 174 | 39 Do you believe that altitude training helps elite endurance athletes? Well,
EPO does what altitude training does for you, plus more, and it's better,
more effective, and you can control how much you want to take, when you want
to take it. Many pro cyclists need EPO just to be able to keep up with team
workouts.
Look at LA's blood profile during Giro (where he was no good) vs TdF.
http://veloclinic.tumblr.com/post/40819756884/armstrongs-2009-c
【在 w********6 的大作中提到】
: Doping 对于短跑这种爆发的有颠倒乾坤的作用（again， i am just guessing), 我很
: 怀疑对于endurance sport 有决定性的左右。
: 让我来服药，我还是跑不过如花，baiji，和最近破3的同学们。
|
i*********5
发帖数: 19210 | 40 超级管用。当年的马家军就是dope出来的。
马拉松里也有啊！美国的EPO Eddy!
The Confessions of Eddy Hellebuyck
An American marathon champion, suspended six years ago from the sport for
doping, finally reveals the truth behind the charges—and why he now hopes
to redeem himself.
http://runnersworld.com/elite-runners/confessions-eddy-hellebuy
【在 w********6 的大作中提到】
: Doping 对于短跑这种爆发的有颠倒乾坤的作用（again， i am just guessing), 我很
: 怀疑对于endurance sport 有决定性的左右。
: 让我来服药，我还是跑不过如花，baiji，和最近破3的同学们。
|
|
|
f**********e
发帖数: 1994 | 41 EPO／输血 对一般车手能增加 peak power 12－15％，耐力增加 80％，对顶级车手的
power 是增加 5％。听起来很少，对不对？不对。2004 Tour Lance 的 winning time
是 ～83.5 小时。最后一名的 Jimmy Casper 落后了 ～4 小时，而这还不到 5％ 的时
间。他们的竞争是非常严酷的。
退很多万步来说，Lance 如果没有有计划的吃药，至少会被 Ullrich 和 Beloki 干掉。
be
【在 w********6 的大作中提到】
: Doping 到底有多大作用？ 当时Lance七冠的时候，前几名的都没有doping么？
: 我觉得没有完全了解这个背景，还是先别下结论说， 没有douping， Lance would be
: a nobody.
|
S*******t
发帖数: 174 | 42 老狼想一想，如果同样fitness条件下体重减轻5％，马拉松能快多少？
的
time
掉。
【在 f**********e 的大作中提到】
: EPO／输血 对一般车手能增加 peak power 12－15％，耐力增加 80％，对顶级车手的
: power 是增加 5％。听起来很少，对不对？不对。2004 Tour Lance 的 winning time
: 是 ～83.5 小时。最后一名的 Jimmy Casper 落后了 ～4 小时，而这还不到 5％ 的时
: 间。他们的竞争是非常严酷的。
: 退很多万步来说，Lance 如果没有有计划的吃药，至少会被 Ullrich 和 Beloki 干掉。
:
: be
|
n******d
发帖数: 3583 | 43 其实就是人在江湖，身不由己阿............胳膊壮没做大佬也好久了，还是逃不过江
湖的宿命啊 |
b*********n
发帖数: 2284 | 44 不明白你说的什么意思。有人说胳膊粗是好人，我就想问问好人是不是会诋毁威胁别人
。你对好人的定义是什么？这个和美国中国有关系吗？我不否认美国中国入侵过其他国
家，但胳膊粗是因为美国入侵伊拉克才威胁队友的吗？注意你的逻辑。
【在 O****e 的大作中提到】
: Why does US bully other countries?
: Why does China bully some other Asian countries ?
: Although I don't agree with the 2nd claim,
: many others certainly firmly believe so.
|
w********6
发帖数: 12977 | 45 that information is impressive
的
time
掉。
【在 f**********e 的大作中提到】
: EPO／输血 对一般车手能增加 peak power 12－15％，耐力增加 80％，对顶级车手的
: power 是增加 5％。听起来很少，对不对？不对。2004 Tour Lance 的 winning time
: 是 ～83.5 小时。最后一名的 Jimmy Casper 落后了 ～4 小时，而这还不到 5％ 的时
: 间。他们的竞争是非常严酷的。
: 退很多万步来说，Lance 如果没有有计划的吃药，至少会被 Ullrich 和 Beloki 干掉。
:
: be
|
w********6
发帖数: 12977 | 46 对于业余选手，我还真不care如果有人吃药去比赛。 对于专业的，如果当时的确有些
人因为没有吃药而默默无名，那么我承认 Lance Armstrong should be held
responsible for his doping by a life time ban
【在 S*******t 的大作中提到】
: 老狼想一想，如果同样fitness条件下体重减轻5％，马拉松能快多少？
:
: 的
: time
: 掉。
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z*********n
发帖数: 94654 | 47 哈哈，我也不骑了，现在只干一件事情时间还不够
【在 w********6 的大作中提到】
: 哈哈，老三还骑车么，我的自行车几年木有东，车胎都彻底瘪了在车库生锈
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f**********e
发帖数: 1994 | 48 Tyler Hamilton 的书上读来的。Tyler 的书让我知道了 Armstrong 的另一个优势
（不过这是他自己一手打造出来的），那就是有系统有组织的 doping。 Tyler
和 Floyd 离开了 USPS 以后 doping 变得非常困难，而且非常昂贵。拿不到药，
找不到合格医生输血，被输入的是坏血，还被混了别人的血球。。。
再者，Greg Lemond 认为 Lance 的天赋 “Average"。（他的 average 当然不是
我们认为的 average）
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/lemond-not-satisfied-with-armst
“LeMond says that Armstrong could not have won the Tour de France clean
because he was not the super-talented athlete which he made himself out to
be. In fact, LeMond called Armstrong’s natural talent “average”, and said
that his incredible increase in performance thanks to doping was so
remarkable, it was difficult to believe it was only the result of EPO,
testosterone and transfusions.”
【在 w********6 的大作中提到】
: that information is impressive
:
: 的
: time
: 掉。
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J********e
发帖数: 2284 | 49 2小时10分？ 我要换车然后doping，也许有希望
【在 m******r 的大作中提到】
: 去年我们这里有个half ironman的比赛，有一支接力队伍还真的用了liestrong这个名
: 字。我一开始很替壮壮不忿，可是一看他们自行车段的成绩是2小时10分（56迈），就
: 觉得他们还是有资格拿壮壮开涮的。如果他们的时间是2个多小时的话那就只能是个
: joke了。用键盘损一下别人谁都会，可是要付诸实际行动还是需要本钱的。
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i*********5
发帖数: 19210 | 50 "这个黄胶圈对我的用处，一是表明自己cyclist的身份" - JerryMouse
田芋的意思是road ID也可以用来代表cyclist的身份。不过好像有些runner也戴road
ID。
【在 m******r 的大作中提到】
: 路挨地给我的印象是promote safety，不是fight cancer，也不代表toughness啊
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i*********5
发帖数: 19210 | 51 大家有没有看过这个纪录片"ESPN 30 for 30 9.79*"
This 30 for 30 episode is about Canadian sprinter Ben Johnson, whose world-
record time of 9.79 seconds in the 100-meter men's final at the 1988 Summer
Olympics in South Korea was wiped from the record books after it was
discovered that he tested positive for steroids.
http://youtu.be/3Skg3-eoxq4
【在 w********6 的大作中提到】
: 对于业余选手，我还真不care如果有人吃药去比赛。 对于专业的，如果当时的确有些
: 人因为没有吃药而默默无名，那么我承认 Lance Armstrong should be held
: responsible for his doping by a life time ban
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h*****a
发帖数: 1992 | 52 Greg Lemond其实我觉得也是有些酸葡萄。他要是生在LA时代他也得dope.
还有他说Lance的talent average其实不完全对。Lance的四肢非常健壮，但是心肺功能
没有最顶级的自行车手的水准。打个比方说，Lance是一个配备了顶级显卡，内存，SSD
的电脑，但是天生的CPU却只是一个中档货色。这时候cpu超频 (doping)就能令外围设
备的优势完全发挥出来。
said
【在 f**********e 的大作中提到】
: Tyler Hamilton 的书上读来的。Tyler 的书让我知道了 Armstrong 的另一个优势
: （不过这是他自己一手打造出来的），那就是有系统有组织的 doping。 Tyler
: 和 Floyd 离开了 USPS 以后 doping 变得非常困难，而且非常昂贵。拿不到药，
: 找不到合格医生输血，被输入的是坏血，还被混了别人的血球。。。
: 再者，Greg Lemond 认为 Lance 的天赋 “Average"。（他的 average 当然不是
: 我们认为的 average）
: http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/lemond-not-satisfied-with-armst
: “LeMond says that Armstrong could not have won the Tour de France clean
: because he was not the super-talented athlete which he made himself out to
: be. In fact, LeMond called Armstrong’s natural talent “average”, and said
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