由买买提看人间百态

boards

本页内容为未名空间相应帖子的节选和存档,一周内的贴子最多显示50字,超过一周显示500字 访问原贴
Cycling版 - Interesting post on Vino's win on Olympic road race
相关主题
Cavendish confident British dream team can deliver first gold medal of London 2012Cavendish 眼中的TDF <1>:No-fly zone
TDF第一站,massive crash, Contador lost over 1min to everyone elseCavendish 眼中的TDF <2>:5 km more
LA其实不是源头Cavendish 眼中的TDF <3>:Giro vs Tour
Saxo Bank got their revengeLance Armstrong: Enough is enough, won't fight doping charges
TDF 第九段大家看到最前面的那位下山么?Lance is a legend and will always be
Another magnificent sprint from HTCTDF 2013: Froome soared again
Cavendish the best sprinterVinokourov's bike
Cavendish crashed within 100 metres of the finishCongratulations to Ryder Hesjedal! 加拿大的首位环意冠军!
相关话题的讨论汇总
话题: vinokourov话题: uran话题: he话题: vino话题: race
进入Cycling版参与讨论
1 (共1页)
p********y
发帖数: 5141
1
It is a bit annoying to see a ex-doper won the Olympic road race. I was keep
questioning myself whether he is clean. The difference between Millar and
Vino on dopping is similar to the attitude taken by German and Japan on WWII
. Hi Vino, doping will never be the past which you can put away.
Should doper ever be allowed to be back to pro cycling? If not, will it make
pro cycling a field which is cleaner?
----------------------------------------------------------------
Rorschach Test
Look hard enough at Alexander Vinokourov’s Olympic win, and it means
anything you want it to.
By Joe Lindsey
http://bicycling.com/blogs/boulderreport/2012/07/29/rorschach-t
When Alexander Vinokourov latched onto the back wheel of Rigoberto Uran to
make a two-man break with 10 kilometers to go in the Olympic Men’s Road
Race, and then launched a mostly uncontested sprint to hold off the young
Colombian for the win, it turned the race into something more than a
competition. It became a referendum.
Run down the start list and you’d be hard pressed to come up with a more
controversial winner than the wily old Kazakh. Positive for blood doping in
2007, he claimed his rights were being violated, retired just long enough
for his ban to run and then came back. He never apologized, admitted guilt
or even really addressed the issue.
In 2010, he won Liege-Bastogne-Liege and was hurt to discover that many fans
and journalists didn’t trust him. He released a letter to that effect,
where he came as close as he ever has to admitting he doped.
But more a year later, it was alleged that he’d actually bought the win
from breakaway companion Alexander Kolobnev. Again, Vinokourov angrily
denied it and threatened to sue the Swiss publication that made the
allegation, while the UCI promised to look into the matter. If anything came
of either of those actions—or if they were even commenced—it would be
news to me.
And last year after breaking his femur in a terrible crash at the Tour de
France, Vinokourov almost retired again, until he reconsidered primarily
because of these Olympic Games, despite the fact that Kazakhstan qualified
exactly two start spots for the road race.
No sooner had Vinokourov crossed the line than critics were questioning his
win. Was he clean? It was a bizarre sprint—had he bought the victory from
Uran?
His victory also set off the predictable back-and-forth about allowing ex-
dopers back in the sport. On one hand, what did it say about the sport that
a rider who’d been convincingly caught for blood doping and unrepentant
about it was now the public face of the sport on the world’s biggest
athletic stage?
On the other, the argument went, Vino served his time, hasn’t tested
positive since and the very people who seem to despise him so much at the
same time love David Millar, another ex-doper who traveled a strange path to
these Games. Why is one ex-doper welcomed back while another is rejected?
And the fact that the race came down to a two-rider break rather than the
expected bunch sprint was the source of an entirely different set of
polemics: negative racing, the role of race radios and the—depending on
your view—rational or corruptive alliances of trade teams, as when Austria
’s Bernhard Eisel appeared to become an honorary sixth member of the
British team with about 70km to race.
Not all of that can be tied to Vinokourov. The Australians elected to pursue
other tactics than working for a bunch sprint for their own reasons. But
much of the conversation revolved around Vinokourov himself.
While journalists lobbed the expected doping questions at the press
conference, no one, to my knowledge, asked about the old race-fixing
allegation.
And it was a bizarre sprint. Uran launched a crafty move with 10k to go, and
Vinokourov jumped on his wheel. The pair worked together up to the final
kilometer, likely mindful of the large and powerful chase behind them.
But with just over 200 meters to go, Uran led into the final bend and
inexplicably swung into the middle of the road, rather than holding his
position along the left-side barriers to force Vinokourov to attack to the
right.
Uran glanced over his left shoulder and Vinokourov, never one to miss an
opportunity, pounced to the right, out of Uran’s field of view. When Uran
realized his mistake, he briefly tried to follow but the gap was set. “I
didn’t have the strength to sprint,” he said later.
The odd sequence set speculation off about a possible deal. But without
other evidence, it’s baseless. Uran is a talented climber and stage racer
who also finished fifth at Liege-Bastogne-Liege last year and took past-
Olympic champion Samuel Sanchez in a sprint at a stage of this year’s Volta
Catalunya; the course was well within his skill set.
Since he’s in his fifth season on the WorldTour, it’s easy to forget he’s
just 25; he turned pro at 16, in part to support his family after losing
his father in Colombia’s “la Violencia” when Uran was just 14.
That’s not a typo—he was just 16 when he signed his first pro deal for
Tenax. For more on Uran, read this excellent interview with the Colombian-
focused blog Cycling Inquisition.
Would Uran take a deal? I have no way of knowing. But nor does anyone else
on Twitter. Whether Vinokourov offered a deal or not, I found it
disrespectful to Uran to suggest—based only on Vinokourov’s past and a
sprinting mistake—that he’d take a payment and settle for silver.
I suspect a lot of the speculation arises not just from Vinokourov’s past,
but because Uran isn’t well-known to anglophone race fans. If it had been,
say, Tim Duggan, Jack Bauer or a famous European racer like Fabian
Cancellara who goofed up the sprint, would people suggest he’d taken a dive
for short money?
More likely is that Uran simply got outfoxed by an older, craftier rider.
Consider what Ryder Hesjedal had to say to AFP about missing the initial
move that put Vino in the large break: “Usually, when Vino goes I make sure
to go with him. I wish I had that time.”
But as brilliant as Vinokourov is on the bike, he’s not exactly expansive
off of it. And if anyone was looking for a last-chance repentance or even a
little reflection from the man himself on the eve of his—possibly last—
retirement, they were disappointed.
Vino cut off press conference questions about his positive test by saying,
“I closed that chapter of my life in 2007. The question was already asked
again in 2010. It is not the right time to ask this question again. Cycling
has changed and the organisers are doing a lot to fight doping. I’m aware
of the problem and I do what I can in this field.”
It’s that kind of imperious non-answer that frustrates fans and makes them
wary. The reason fans respond warmly to Millar and not Vinokourov is not
merely to be found in the fact that Millar admitted his guilt.
As those who think it’s hypocritical to support one ex-doper but not
another are fond of pointing out, Millar’s initial behavior when caught
wasn’t exactly heroic.
Millar’s difference is that, although he was caught in 2004 and returned to
racing in 2006, he’s never since shied away from the subject. I’ve never
heard him respond to a doping-related question by saying, “I’ve already
talked about that,” or “That’s in the past,” even though it’s been
eight years since he was caught and he’s long confirmed that he’s able to
ride—and win—clean.
To the contrary, when he won a stage of the Tour de France this year, he
pointed out the win came 45 years to the day after Tom Simpson’s death (
attributed in part to amphetamine use) and openly claimed the ex-doper
sobriquet:
“I am an ex-doper who is now clean and there is never any point in hiding
that. I will never fail to mention my doping past. I have a duty to remind
people where our sport has been. I am very representative of our sport as
whole. I have been through what the sport has been through but we are in a
much better place now although we must not forget the past. But it is always
important to show that you can win races clean.”
This mindless insistence that if we welcome Millar back means we must also
embrace Vinokourov ignores context, intent, judgment, many of the things
that make us higher-functioning primates.
The idea that one has to choose between welcoming back all or none of those
who doped in the past is an excuse to live in comfortable, uncritical
absolutes and turn off our brains. We must allow them back, as that’s what
the rules say and to do otherwise would not be fair. But there’s no command
to receive them with open arms, to cheer for all of them equally.
Millar is right: The sport has come a long way. And while we should not
forget the past, it’s a little disappointing that some can’t get past the
old talking points and arguments.
In a way, Vinokourov is the perfect Olympic champion for our time. He
represents the sport’s past, and its efforts—not always successful and
sometimes not even all that willing—to break with it.
To some, it’s an era of swashbuckling riders who knew how to race without a
director telling them what to do via earpiece. To others, it’s good
riddance to a dope-soaked time.
But whatever he represents, it’s clear that time is ending. Uran is 25. So
is bronze medallist Alexander Kristoff. Fourth-place Taylor Phinney is just
22. What does Vinokourov’s win mean?
It means dopers can come back and race clean. Or dope to win and get caught.
Or not caught. Or buy a win. Or that race radios make racing less exciting.
It means everything. It means nothing. It means whatever we want it to mean.
Notes:
-In retrospect, it’s surprising to me that so many of us (present company
included) expected a bunch sprint. Yes, the Olympic test event on this
course went to a bunch gallop, but that was far shorter than today’s race,
and while contested by five-man teams, featured a host of British riders who
were admittedly working for winner Mark Cavendish.
Once the expected alliances with the Australians and Germans came up short,
it was simply far too much to expect four riders to control a hilly 250-
kilometer road race with a stacked field—even if two of them just finished
on the podium at the Tour de France.
The common analysis of the British is that they were so strong that their
strength beat them. I’d argue that it wasn’t their strength that beat them
; it was their rigidity. Dave Brailsford said openly that not only was the
team’s goal was to set up Cavendish in the sprint, but it had no other plan.
Once it became clear that the Australians weren’t going to help and the
Germans weren’t very effective (after Tony Martin’s initial efforts), the
British were essentially trapped in their tactic. Australia and Belgium had
strong sprinters too, but took the offensive in putting riders in the break.
As well, the British pace was partly dictated by Cavendish’s ability to get
over the Box Hill climb. That meant the pace wasn’t high enough to
discourage attacks and so, with a group already up the road, when the front
of the peloton exploded with attacks on the fifth circuit, it wasn’t so
much a breakaway as a selection.
By focusing so exclusively on Cavendish, the British not only openly
telegraphed their entire strategy, they gave themselves no alternative. Sky
(which is essentially British Cycling) won the Tour de France by sticking to
its plan. Discipline was key. But while that can work in a Grand Tour, it’
s not much help in a wild, one-day race.
Britain’s strength wasn’t their downfall. It was their inability to
improvise.
-The television coverage was atrocious. I don’t mean the commentating which
, honestly, I didn’t listen to much. I’m talking about the basic
production, which is provided by Olympic Broadcasting Services. They are
responsible for much of the live footage of events, which rights holders
like NBC then pair with their own commentary and, sometimes, graphics.
The motorbike cameramen were often much too far away from the action to
offer meaningful shots, there was a painful lack of graphics or even basic
information such as the composition of the break, and the producers seemed
torn between following the action and chronicling the increasingly forlorn
British chase.
When Uran made his move and Vino covered it, the coverage flipped briefly
back to the British-led peloton, even though their chase was by that point
hopeless. Had anyone tried to bridge to Vinokourov and Uran, we didn’t see
it.
And, as the lead duo passed through 500 meters to go, the production team
stayed with the fixed camera as the large chase came up, despite the fact
that they were not going to close the gap. So we missed out on the lead
action until they thankfully flipped back just in time to catch Uran’s
tactical miss.
That was not to mention some odd and pointless slow-motion replays of
routine cornering. It was nice to be able to show off the high-speed camera
toy, but at the same time it took them at least a minute to queue up replay
coverage of Fabian Cancellara’s crash—essential since, at the time of the
crash, it wasn’t apparent who had gone down.
Overall, it was a frustrating way to watch a race, and that’s coming from
an avowed race fan. NBC gets full plaudits for placing the men’s road race
on its main network and broadcasting hours of coverage without the usual
hopscotch interruption by other sports. And like every other rightsholder,
they had to deal with the footage provided to them by OBS.
But I was disappointed by the lack of graphics and on-screen explanation or
identification. And the camerawork and production were sophomoric. Most
frustrating in relation to the road race is that OBS’ board of directors
includes former UCI president Hein Verbruggen. Let’s hope they can do
better with a velodrome.
l***t
发帖数: 312
2
冠军有点胜之不武。
最后趁人回看得时候抢先发力。
刚开始看他们合作的跟一个队似的,以为没人会耍赖。

【在 p********y 的大作中提到】
: It is a bit annoying to see a ex-doper won the Olympic road race. I was keep
: questioning myself whether he is clean. The difference between Millar and
: Vino on dopping is similar to the attitude taken by German and Japan on WWII
: . Hi Vino, doping will never be the past which you can put away.
: Should doper ever be allowed to be back to pro cycling? If not, will it make
: pro cycling a field which is cleaner?
: ----------------------------------------------------------------
: Rorschach Test
: Look hard enough at Alexander Vinokourov’s Olympic win, and it means
: anything you want it to.

h*****a
发帖数: 1992
3
That's called racing.

【在 l***t 的大作中提到】
: 冠军有点胜之不武。
: 最后趁人回看得时候抢先发力。
: 刚开始看他们合作的跟一个队似的,以为没人会耍赖。

t****u
发帖数: 10218
4
这在公路赛中是正常的战术。
另外,不反对曾磕药的继续参加比赛,但需要每星期自费接受药检。

【在 l***t 的大作中提到】
: 冠军有点胜之不武。
: 最后趁人回看得时候抢先发力。
: 刚开始看他们合作的跟一个队似的,以为没人会耍赖。

p********r
发帖数: 3799
5
这个doping的问题,看来doping是cycling的小蜜,分不开啊~~
p********r
发帖数: 3799
6
对Vinokourov影响最深的就是2011 TDF,他被队友从坑里抬出来的情景,悲剧式的人物。
h*****a
发帖数: 1992
7
How about his 2003 TDF attack and victory at Pau, when Joseba Belocki
fishtailed and caused Lance Armstrong went cyclocross? And how about his out
-of-blue TT wins in 2007 TDF and later detected blood doping, causing the
whole Astana team to withdraw?
Vinokourov changed part of recent cycling history.

物。

【在 p********r 的大作中提到】
: 对Vinokourov影响最深的就是2011 TDF,他被队友从坑里抬出来的情景,悲剧式的人物。
p********r
发帖数: 3799
8
看来此人有点不地道~~

out

【在 h*****a 的大作中提到】
: How about his 2003 TDF attack and victory at Pau, when Joseba Belocki
: fishtailed and caused Lance Armstrong went cyclocross? And how about his out
: -of-blue TT wins in 2007 TDF and later detected blood doping, causing the
: whole Astana team to withdraw?
: Vinokourov changed part of recent cycling history.
:
: 物。

R*****s
发帖数: 41236
9
我也觉得没必要终身禁赛, 但必须随时接受药检...
胳膊壮因为骑车比赛被禁止参加ironman的确太诡异了....

【在 t****u 的大作中提到】
: 这在公路赛中是正常的战术。
: 另外,不反对曾磕药的继续参加比赛,但需要每星期自费接受药检。

R*****s
发帖数: 41236
10
展开说说?

物。

【在 p********r 的大作中提到】
: 对Vinokourov影响最深的就是2011 TDF,他被队友从坑里抬出来的情景,悲剧式的人物。
相关主题
Another magnificent sprint from HTCCavendish 眼中的TDF <1>:No-fly zone
Cavendish the best sprinterCavendish 眼中的TDF <2>:5 km more
Cavendish crashed within 100 metres of the finishCavendish 眼中的TDF <3>:Giro vs Tour
进入Cycling版参与讨论
h*****a
发帖数: 1992
11
2003年不是他不地道。Vino attacked on the last climb on stage 9, TDF 2003.
Since he was only a minute back in the GC, the race leaders, 1-2 in 2002
Tour, Armstrong and Beloki pulled hard alternatively at the front to try to
bring him back. It was a hot day and on the decent, Beloki locked his back
wheel and crashed out of the tour (and effectively his career). Armstrong
went cyclocrossing in a hayfield to avoid crashing. Vino was not aware of
the incident and went on to win the stage at Gap.

【在 p********r 的大作中提到】
: 看来此人有点不地道~~
:
: out

R*****s
发帖数: 41236
12
没看太明白,不过这的确和他没啥关系吧...
另外像楼上说的, 嗑药在TDF里也算个正常现象了....

to

【在 h*****a 的大作中提到】
: 2003年不是他不地道。Vino attacked on the last climb on stage 9, TDF 2003.
: Since he was only a minute back in the GC, the race leaders, 1-2 in 2002
: Tour, Armstrong and Beloki pulled hard alternatively at the front to try to
: bring him back. It was a hot day and on the decent, Beloki locked his back
: wheel and crashed out of the tour (and effectively his career). Armstrong
: went cyclocrossing in a hayfield to avoid crashing. Vino was not aware of
: the incident and went on to win the stage at Gap.

p********r
发帖数: 3799
13
2011 tdf 摔的特别多,Vino就是其中一个牺牲品,一堆人一块甩到沟里,别人都出来
了,他半天没出来,结果是被人抬出来的。说他悲剧,是因为他本来打算2011年tdf后
就退休了,所以2011年的tdf他是拼了命的骑,结果没有善终。

【在 R*****s 的大作中提到】
: 展开说说?
:
: 物。

p********r
发帖数: 3799
14
他也算帮助造就了Armstrong的一个经典时刻。

to

【在 h*****a 的大作中提到】
: 2003年不是他不地道。Vino attacked on the last climb on stage 9, TDF 2003.
: Since he was only a minute back in the GC, the race leaders, 1-2 in 2002
: Tour, Armstrong and Beloki pulled hard alternatively at the front to try to
: bring him back. It was a hot day and on the decent, Beloki locked his back
: wheel and crashed out of the tour (and effectively his career). Armstrong
: went cyclocrossing in a hayfield to avoid crashing. Vino was not aware of
: the incident and went on to win the stage at Gap.

R*****s
发帖数: 41236
15
他们为啥都摔不烂,还是肋骨都已经换成钢筋的了...
去年摔这么惨, 今年又奥运冠军了?

【在 p********r 的大作中提到】
: 2011 tdf 摔的特别多,Vino就是其中一个牺牲品,一堆人一块甩到沟里,别人都出来
: 了,他半天没出来,结果是被人抬出来的。说他悲剧,是因为他本来打算2011年tdf后
: 就退休了,所以2011年的tdf他是拼了命的骑,结果没有善终。

p********r
发帖数: 3799
16
摔习惯了吧。。。。。
而且这是他们职业,crash和养伤估计是其中一部分了,呵呵。

【在 R*****s 的大作中提到】
: 他们为啥都摔不烂,还是肋骨都已经换成钢筋的了...
: 去年摔这么惨, 今年又奥运冠军了?

h*****a
发帖数: 1992
17
Armstrong went cyclocrossing in the hayfield is one of the most classic
moments of recent cycling history. It was triggered by a move by Vino.

【在 R*****s 的大作中提到】
: 没看太明白,不过这的确和他没啥关系吧...
: 另外像楼上说的, 嗑药在TDF里也算个正常现象了....
:
: to

c*******r
发帖数: 13580
18
here is a re-enaction of the series of events:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbRd0SXWsMM

【在 h*****a 的大作中提到】
: Armstrong went cyclocrossing in the hayfield is one of the most classic
: moments of recent cycling history. It was triggered by a move by Vino.

b******n
发帖数: 1269
19
You guys are so harsh. I know enough about the sport to say with 95%
confidence that during the late 90s and early 2000s, at least 80% pros doped
.
It was almost like socialism (or emperor's new clothes). I
Bear in mind most of Lance's teammates were caught and banned at some point,
even the nicest of all guys like Tyler and Frankie.
In addition, the "hatred" of Vino in the Joe Lindsey article was hard to
cover up.
Vino is a fighter. I root for him.
h*****a
发帖数: 1992
20
That's because EPO was not detectable before 2001 and was available to many
people since early 90s.

doped

【在 b******n 的大作中提到】
: You guys are so harsh. I know enough about the sport to say with 95%
: confidence that during the late 90s and early 2000s, at least 80% pros doped
: .
: It was almost like socialism (or emperor's new clothes). I
: Bear in mind most of Lance's teammates were caught and banned at some point,
: even the nicest of all guys like Tyler and Frankie.
: In addition, the "hatred" of Vino in the Joe Lindsey article was hard to
: cover up.
: Vino is a fighter. I root for him.

相关主题
Lance Armstrong: Enough is enough, won't fight doping chargesVinokourov's bike
Lance is a legend and will always beCongratulations to Ryder Hesjedal! 加拿大的首位环意冠军!
TDF 2013: Froome soared againDIY Doping, pro style
进入Cycling版参与讨论
R*****s
发帖数: 41236
21
I agree with you....
Most ppl would do it if they would not be caught, and everyone
else is doing it...

doped
point,

【在 b******n 的大作中提到】
: You guys are so harsh. I know enough about the sport to say with 95%
: confidence that during the late 90s and early 2000s, at least 80% pros doped
: .
: It was almost like socialism (or emperor's new clothes). I
: Bear in mind most of Lance's teammates were caught and banned at some point,
: even the nicest of all guys like Tyler and Frankie.
: In addition, the "hatred" of Vino in the Joe Lindsey article was hard to
: cover up.
: Vino is a fighter. I root for him.

j********l
发帖数: 551
22
Me too.(rooting for Vino)
And Wiggins and Froome are both dopers.

doped
point,

【在 b******n 的大作中提到】
: You guys are so harsh. I know enough about the sport to say with 95%
: confidence that during the late 90s and early 2000s, at least 80% pros doped
: .
: It was almost like socialism (or emperor's new clothes). I
: Bear in mind most of Lance's teammates were caught and banned at some point,
: even the nicest of all guys like Tyler and Frankie.
: In addition, the "hatred" of Vino in the Joe Lindsey article was hard to
: cover up.
: Vino is a fighter. I root for him.

h*****a
发帖数: 1992
23
In fact I believe the whole sky team is doped, probably save Cavendish.
It's hard to believe Sky's performance in TDF this year. They dropped the
climbing specialists in the mountains and demolished TT specialists in TT.
And it's not only Wiggins or Froome --- it's the whole team. When did you
see Mick Rogers climb so good and so consistent? Remember he's 33 years old.
He was a TT specialist, never a climber.

【在 j********l 的大作中提到】
: Me too.(rooting for Vino)
: And Wiggins and Froome are both dopers.
:
: doped
: point,

O****e
发帖数: 3290
24
Vino is a fighter. He made bike racing alive.
O****e
发帖数: 3290
25
叶诗文被西方质疑,
We all know what it feels when media accusation is made before any evidence
is present.
叶诗文说当她被西方记者直问是否靠doping赢得的比赛时真想拍桌子,
这让我想起了Bradley Wiggings 第一次被记者问到是否敢保证没使用drug时的强烈反
应。
I rooted for the miracle of extraordinary human performance without using
performance enhancing drug and hate when people automatically assume such a
performance is the result of using drug.
Not that I am not aware of the rampant use of drugs in sports especially in
the 70 to 90s. But, nowadays there has been a lot of progress made in
training science and practice and in the understanding of nutritions.
Combined with a much more sophisticated drug detecting system (it's not just
chemical test), 依靠drug 来提高成绩并不是一个明智的选择。
j********l
发帖数: 551
26
Nick named UK Postal already.

old.

【在 h*****a 的大作中提到】
: In fact I believe the whole sky team is doped, probably save Cavendish.
: It's hard to believe Sky's performance in TDF this year. They dropped the
: climbing specialists in the mountains and demolished TT specialists in TT.
: And it's not only Wiggins or Froome --- it's the whole team. When did you
: see Mick Rogers climb so good and so consistent? Remember he's 33 years old.
: He was a TT specialist, never a climber.

1 (共1页)
进入Cycling版参与讨论
相关主题
Congratulations to Ryder Hesjedal! 加拿大的首位环意冠军!TDF 第九段大家看到最前面的那位下山么?
DIY Doping, pro styleAnother magnificent sprint from HTC
Contador 禁赛了?!Cavendish the best sprinter
Feds drop Armstrong investigation, USADA continues inquiryCavendish crashed within 100 metres of the finish
Cavendish confident British dream team can deliver first gold medal of London 2012Cavendish 眼中的TDF <1>:No-fly zone
TDF第一站,massive crash, Contador lost over 1min to everyone elseCavendish 眼中的TDF <2>:5 km more
LA其实不是源头Cavendish 眼中的TDF <3>:Giro vs Tour
Saxo Bank got their revengeLance Armstrong: Enough is enough, won't fight doping charges
相关话题的讨论汇总
话题: vinokourov话题: uran话题: he话题: vino话题: race