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Belief版 - 关于Joseph Smith的妻子及后代:法庭供词及摩门档案
相关主题
Was Joseph Smith A False Prophet?【摩门教系列】今天参加摩门教的聚会见闻
Christianity Restored Through The Prophet Joseph Smith├ Re: 谈到摩门教,咱们看看Joseph Smith的事迹
smith为救自己的性命才开始多妻制600+ ex-mormon topic(不定期更新)
摩门教怎么看Bible?耶酥教导的末日即临的背景
摩门教信什么? (转载)[合集] 小耶说话不算数?
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关于摩门教 -- 正统基督徒之间对摩门教的讨论和批判更新]系统了解摩门教的两个网站,以及我对摩门教的简单总结
正牌基督怎么看摩门的啊为什么“十二[先知书]”的名字不一样?Two Names of the “Twelve Prophets”
相关话题的讨论汇总
话题: joseph话题: smith话题: wife话题: his话题: prophet
1 (共1页)
s****y
发帖数: 1574
1
这里有非常详细的资料。每条资料都有确切出处。有些(如Temple lot case)是Joseph Smith多个妻子在法庭上的供词。有些则来自摩门教自己的资料或档案记录。
Q: Did Joseph Smith Obey the Commandment and Have Sex with His Wives?
A: Yes.
Compton writes:
"Because of claims by Reorganized Latter-day Saints that Joseph was not
really married polygamously in the full (i.e., sexual) sense of the term, Utah Mormons (including Joseph's wives) affirmed repeatedly that Joseph had physical sexual relations with his plural wives-despite the Victorian conventions in nineteenth-century American religion which otherwise would have prevented mention of sexual relations in marriage."
- Faithful Mormon Melissa Lott (Smith Willes) testified that she had been Joseph's wife "in very deed." (Affidavit of Melissa Willes, 3 Aug. 1893, "Temple Lot Case," pp. 98, 105; Foster, "Religion and Sexuality," p. 156.)
- In a court affidavit, faithful Mormon Joseph Noble wrote that Joseph told him he had spent the night with Louisa Beaman. ("Temple Lot Case," p. 427)
- Emily D. Partridge (Smith Young) said she "roomed" with Joseph the night following her marriage to him and said that she had "carnal intercourse" with him. ("Temple Lot Case," complete transcript, pp. 364, 367, 384; see Foster, "Religion and Sexuality," p. 15)
In total, 13 faithful Latter-day Saint women who were married to Joseph
Smith swore court affidavits that they had sexual relations with him.
- Joseph Smith's personal secretary records that on May 22nd, 1843, Smith's first wife Emma found Joseph and Eliza Partridge secluded in an upstairs bedroom at the Smith home. Emma was devastated. (William Clayton's journal entry for 23 May (see Smith, pp. 105-106)
- Smith's secretary William Clayton also recorded a visit to young Almera Johnson on May 16, 1843:
"Prest. Joseph and I went to B[enjamin] F. Johnsons to sleep." Johnson
himself later noted that on this visit Smith stayed with Almera "as man and wife" and "occupied the same room and bed with my sister, that the previous month he had occupied with the daughter of the late Bishop Partridge as his wife." Almera Johnson also confirmed her secret marriage to Joseph Smith: "I lived with the prophet Joseph as his wife and he visited me at the home of my brother Benjamin F." (Zimmerman, "I Knew the Prophets," p. 44; see also, "The Origin of Plural Marriage," Joseph F. Smith, Jr., Deseret News Press, pp. 70-71.)
- Faithful Mormon and Stake President Angus Cannon told Joseph Smith's son: "Brother Heber C. Kimball, I am informed, asked [Eliza R. Snow] the question if she was not a virgin although married to Joseph Smith and afterwards to Brigham Young, when she replied in a private gathering, "I thought you knew Joseph Smith better than that."" (Stake President Angus M. Cannon, statement of interview with Joseph III, p. 23, LDS archives)
_____
s****y
发帖数: 1574
2
Q. Did Joseph Smith Father Any Children from His Polygamous Wives?
A: Yes. 其中有些来自摩门教自己的资料,见下。
- Stake President Angus Cannon also testified:
"I will now refer you to one case where it was said by the girl's
grandmother that your father [Joseph Smith] has a daughter born of a plural
wife. The girl's grandmother was Mother Sessions . . . She was the grand-
daughter of Mother Sessions. That girl, I believe, is living today, in
Bountiful, north of this city. I heard prest. Young, a short time before his
death, refer to the report . . . . The woman is now said to have a family
of children, and I think she is still living." (Stake President Angus M.
Cannon, statement of interview with Joseph III, pp. 25-26, LDS archives)
- Faithful Mormon and wife of Joseph Smith, Sylvia Sessions (Lyon), on her
deathbed told her daughter, Josephine, that she (Josephine) was the daughter
of Joseph Smith. Josephine testified:
"She (Sylvia) then told me that I was the daughter of the Prophet Joseph
Smith, she having been sealed to the Prophet at the time that her husband Mr
. Lyon was out of fellowship with the Church." (Affidavit to Church
Historian Andrew Jenson, 24 February 1915)
- In her testimony given at a Brigham Young University devotional, Faithful
Mormon Mary Elizabeth Rollins Lightner stated that she knew of children born
to Smith's plural wives: "I know he [Joseph Smith] had six wives and I have
known some of them from childhood up. I know he had three children. They
told me. I think two are living today but they are not known as his children
as they go by other names." (Read her full BYU testimony here: http://www.ldshistory.net/pc/merlbyu.htm)
- Faithful Mormon Prescindia D. Huntington, who was Normal Buell's wife and
simultaneously a "plural wife" of the Prophet Joseph Smith, said that she
did not know whether her husband Norman "or the Prophet was the father of
her son, Oliver." And a glance at a photo of Oliver shows a strong
resemblance to Emma Smith's boys. (Mary Ettie V. Smith, "Fifteen Years Among
the Mormons", page 34; also Fawn Brodie, "No Man Knows My History" pp. 301-
302, 437-39)
- Researchers have tentatively identified eight children that Joseph Smith
may have had by his plural wives. Besides Josephine Fisher (b. Feb. 8, 1844)
and Oliver Buell, named as possible children of Joseph Smith by his plural
wives are John R. Hancock (born April 19, 1841), George A. Lightner (born
March 12, 1842), Orson W. Hyde (born November 9, 1843), Frank H. Hyde (born
January 23, 1845), Moroni Pratt (born December 7, 1844), and Zebulon Jacobs
(born January 2, 1842). ("Mormon Polygamy: A History," by LDS historian
Richard S. Van Wagoner, pp. 44, 48-49n3.)
There is another piece of evidence you might consider in examining Joseph
Smith's sexual behavior. The following excerpt is from a love letter Joseph
Smith wrote when he wanted to arrange a liaison with Newel K. Whitney's
daughter Sarah Ann, whom Smith had secretly "married." It reveals Smith's
cloak-and-dagger approach to his extramarital affairs:
". . . [T]he only thing to be careful of; is to find out when Emma comes
then you cannot be safe, but when she is not here, there is the most perfect
safty. . . . Only be careful to escape observation, as much as possible, I
know it is a heroick undertakeing; but so much the greater friendship, and
the more Joy, when I see you I will tell you all my plans, I cannot write
them on paper, burn this letter as soon as you read it; keep all locked up
in your breasts, my life depends upon it. . . . I close my letter, I think
Emma wont come tonight if she dont, dont fail to come to night, I subscribe
myself your most obedient, and affectionate, companion, and friend. Joseph
Smith."
("Joseph Smith, Polygamy, Sex: Did Joseph Smith Have Sex with His|Wives?,"
at: http://www.i4m.com/think/history/joseph_smith_sex.htm)
s****y
发帖数: 1574
3
这厮还向很多有夫之妇求婚,结果,被拒~~~~
--Joseph Smith's Failed Proposals to Married Women
*John Taylor's Wife, Leonora
"The Prophet went to the home of President Taylor, and said to him, 'Brother
John, I WANT LEONORA.'" Taylor was stunned, but after walking the floor all
night, the obedient elder said to Smith, "If GOD wants Leonora He can have
her." Woodruff concluded: "That was all the prophet was after, to see where
President Taylor stood in the matter, and said to him, Brother Taylor, I
dont want your wife, I just wanted to know just where you stood." (Prophet
Wilford Woodruff, "John Mills Whitaker Journal," Nov. 1 1890; emphasis in
original)
*Heber C. Kimball's Wife, Vilate
“During the summer of 1841, shortly after Heber's return from England, he
was introduced to the doctrine of plural marriage directly through a
startling test-a sacrifice which shook his very being and challenged his
faith to the ultimate. He had already sacrificed homes, possessions, friends
, relatives, all worldly rewards, peace, and tranquility for the Restoration
. Nothing was left to place on the altar save his life, his children, and
his wife.
"Joseph demanded for himself what to Heber was the unthinkable, his Vilate.
Totally crushed spiritually and emotionally, Heber touched neither food nor
water for three days and three nights and continually sought confirmation
and comfort from God." Finally, after 'some kind of assurance,' Heber took
Vilate to the upper room of Joseph's store on Water Street. The Prophet wept
at this act of faith, devotion, and obedience. Joseph had never intended to
take Vilate. It was all a test." (Biography of Heber C. Kimball, "Heber C.
Kimball, Mormon Patriarch and Pioneer," by Stanley B. Kimball, p. 93.)
*Orson Pratt's Wife, Sarah
"Sometime in late 1840 or early 1841, Joseph Smith confided to his friend
that he was smitten by the 'amiable and accomplished' Sarah Pratt and wanted
her for 'one of his spiritual wives, for the Lord had given her to him as a
special favor for his faithfulness.' Shortly afterward, the two men took
some of Bennett's sewing to Sarah's house.
"During the visit, as Bennett describes it, Joseph said, 'Sister Pratt, the
Lord has given you to me as one of my spiritual wives. I have the blessings
of Jacob granted me, as God granted holy men of old, and as I have long
looked upon you with favor, and an earnest desire of connubial bliss, I hope
you will not repulse or deny me.' 'And is that the great secret that I am
not to utter,' Sarah replied. 'Am I called upon to break the marriage
covenant, and prove recreant to my lawful husband! I never will.' She added,
'I care not for the blessings of Jacob. I have one good husband, and that
is enough for me.'
"But according to Bennett, the Prophet was persistent. Finally Sarah angrily
told him on a subsequent visit, 'Joseph, if you ever attempt any thing of
the kind with me again, I will make a full disclosure to Mr. Pratt on his
return home. Depend upon it, I will certainly do it.' 'Sister Pratt,' the
Prophet responded, 'I hope you will not expose me, for if I suffer, all must
suffer; so do not expose me. Will you promise me that you will not do it?'
'If you will never insult me again,' Sarah replied, 'I will not expose you
unless strong circumstances should require it.' 'If you should tell,' the
Prophet added, 'I will ruin your reputation, remember that.'" ("Sarah M.
Pratt" by Richard A. Van Wagoner, "Dialogue," Vol.19, No.2, p. 72. Also see:
http://www.xmission.com/~country/reason/spratt.htm)
*William Law's Wife, Jane
"William Law, a former counselor in the First Presidency, wrote in his 13
May 1844 diary: '[Joseph] ha[s] lately endeavored to seduce my wife, and ha[
s] found her a virtuous woman.'
"The Laws elaborated on this in a public meeting shortly thereafter. 'The
Prophet had made dishonorable proposals to [my] wife . . . under cover of
his asserted "Revelation,"' Law stated. He further explained that Joseph
came to the Law home in the middle of the night when William was absent and
told Jane that 'the Lord had commanded that he should take spiritual wives,
to add to his glory.' Law then called on his wife to corroborate what he had
said. She did so and further explained that Joseph had 'asked her to give
him half her love; she was at liberty to keep the other half for her husband
.'
"Jane refused the Prophet, and according to William Law's 20 January 1887
letter to the 'Salt Lake Tribune,' Smith then considered the couple
apostates. 'Jane had been speaking evil of him for a long time . . .
slandered him, and lied about him without cause,' Law reported Smith as
saying. 'My wife would not speak evil of . . . anyone . . . without cause,'
Law asserted. 'Joseph is the liar and not she. That Smith admired and lusted
after many men's wives and daughters, is a fact, but they could not help
that. They or most of them considered his admiration an insult, and treated
him with scorn. In return for this scorn, he generally managed to blacken
their reputations--see the case of . . . Mrs. Pratt, a good, virtuous woman.
'" ("Mormon Polygamy" by Richard S. Van Wagoner, p. 44)
*Hiram Kimball's Wife, Sarah
Sarah M. Kimball, a prominent Nauvoo and Salt Lake City Relief Society
leader was also approached by the Prophet in early 1842 despite her solid
1840 marriage to Hiram Kimball. Sarah later recalled that:
"Joseph Smith taught me the principle of marriage for eternity, and the
doctrine of plural marriage. He said that in teaching this he realized that
he jeopardized his life; but God had revealed it to him many years before as
a privilege with blessings, now God had revealed it again and instructed
him to teach with commandment, as the Church could travel [progress] no
further without the introduction of this principle." ("LDS Biographical
Encyclopedia" by Elder Andrew Jensen, 6:232, 1887)
Sarah Kimball, like Sarah Pratt, was committed to her husband, and refused
the Prophet's invitation, asking that he "teach it to someone else."
Although she kept the matter quiet, her husband and Smith evidently had
difficulties over Smith's proposal. On 19 May 1842, at a Nauvoo City Council
meeting, Smith jotted down and then "threw across the room" a revelation to
Kimball which declared that "Hiram Kimball has been insinuating evil, and
formulating evil opinions" against the Prophet, which if he does not desist
from, he "shall be accursed." Sarah remained a lifetime member of the Church
and a lifelong wife to Hiram Kimball. ("LDS Biographical Encyclopedia," by
Elder Andrew Jensen, 6:232, 1887, "Official History of the Church," 5: 12-13)
_____
C****i
发帖数: 1776
4
这些都是约瑟斯密的政治对手编造出来的谎言。
大先知只是封印了这些妻子,虽然共处一室,但是没有生小孩,说明没有发生关系。当
时估计没有先进的避孕措施,所以是很合理的解释。
但是杨百翰生了那么多孩子不知道怎么解释?

had

【在 s****y 的大作中提到】
: 这里有非常详细的资料。每条资料都有确切出处。有些(如Temple lot case)是Joseph Smith多个妻子在法庭上的供词。有些则来自摩门教自己的资料或档案记录。
: Q: Did Joseph Smith Obey the Commandment and Have Sex with His Wives?
: A: Yes.
: Compton writes:
: "Because of claims by Reorganized Latter-day Saints that Joseph was not
: really married polygamously in the full (i.e., sexual) sense of the term, Utah Mormons (including Joseph's wives) affirmed repeatedly that Joseph had physical sexual relations with his plural wives-despite the Victorian conventions in nineteenth-century American religion which otherwise would have prevented mention of sexual relations in marriage."
: - Faithful Mormon Melissa Lott (Smith Willes) testified that she had been Joseph's wife "in very deed." (Affidavit of Melissa Willes, 3 Aug. 1893, "Temple Lot Case," pp. 98, 105; Foster, "Religion and Sexuality," p. 156.)
: - In a court affidavit, faithful Mormon Joseph Noble wrote that Joseph told him he had spent the night with Louisa Beaman. ("Temple Lot Case," p. 427)
: - Emily D. Partridge (Smith Young) said she "roomed" with Joseph the night following her marriage to him and said that she had "carnal intercourse" with him. ("Temple Lot Case," complete transcript, pp. 364, 367, 384; see Foster, "Religion and Sexuality," p. 15)
: In total, 13 faithful Latter-day Saint women who were married to Joseph

s****y
发帖数: 1574
5
您是不是看不懂英文?

【在 C****i 的大作中提到】
: 这些都是约瑟斯密的政治对手编造出来的谎言。
: 大先知只是封印了这些妻子,虽然共处一室,但是没有生小孩,说明没有发生关系。当
: 时估计没有先进的避孕措施,所以是很合理的解释。
: 但是杨百翰生了那么多孩子不知道怎么解释?
:
: had

C****i
发帖数: 1776
6
小麦跟我说约瑟斯密只是封信了她的妻子们,没有证据表明他们发生了关系,因为大先
知所有的孩子都是大老婆生的。
我相信小麦不会撒谎

【在 s****y 的大作中提到】
: 您是不是看不懂英文?
s****y
发帖数: 1574
7
你相信摩门教的长老、Joseph Smith的妻子、Joseph Smith的私人秘书都撒谎了。
但是你相信200年后的某个信徒不会撒谎,而且她对他的私事知道得比他的妻子、私人
秘书还清楚。
是么?

【在 C****i 的大作中提到】
: 小麦跟我说约瑟斯密只是封信了她的妻子们,没有证据表明他们发生了关系,因为大先
: 知所有的孩子都是大老婆生的。
: 我相信小麦不会撒谎

C****i
发帖数: 1776
8
我觉得小麦在这件事上没有撒谎,但是她讲的可能不是事实,因为她认为是事实其实是
别人的谎言。
我有过这样的经历,轻信了谎言

【在 s****y 的大作中提到】
: 你相信摩门教的长老、Joseph Smith的妻子、Joseph Smith的私人秘书都撒谎了。
: 但是你相信200年后的某个信徒不会撒谎,而且她对他的私事知道得比他的妻子、私人
: 秘书还清楚。
: 是么?

w****r
发帖数: 17566
9
不發生關係娶那些妻子做什麼,搞笑。
別的女人生的孩子不能歸在大老婆名下啊,中國古時候的宮廷裡不經常這樣的事兒麼。
這種事,只有公公和直接當事人清楚,皇帝不讓寫,史官敢寫麼。史官不寫,後人哪裡
會知道真相的。

【在 C****i 的大作中提到】
: 小麦跟我说约瑟斯密只是封信了她的妻子们,没有证据表明他们发生了关系,因为大先
: 知所有的孩子都是大老婆生的。
: 我相信小麦不会撒谎

s****y
发帖数: 1574
10
Joseph Smith的妻子们跟他发生关系没有?这个问题,最权威的回答当然来自于直接当事人--他的妻子们。那最权威的场合当然是来自法庭的正式记录。
我在1楼提供的就是这样的记录。他的13位妻子在法庭上,声明跟他发生过关系。这个法庭的正式记录都是有案底可查的。那时候摩门教也没成大气候,根本没有什么“政敌造谣”等问题。

【在 w****r 的大作中提到】
: 不發生關係娶那些妻子做什麼,搞笑。
: 別的女人生的孩子不能歸在大老婆名下啊,中國古時候的宮廷裡不經常這樣的事兒麼。
: 這種事,只有公公和直接當事人清楚,皇帝不讓寫,史官敢寫麼。史官不寫,後人哪裡
: 會知道真相的。

相关主题
电影-Joseph Smith: The Prophet of the Restoration【摩门教系列】今天参加摩门教的聚会见闻
关于摩门教 -- 正统基督徒之间对摩门教的讨论和批判├ Re: 谈到摩门教,咱们看看Joseph Smith的事迹
正牌基督怎么看摩门的啊600+ ex-mormon topic(不定期更新)
E*****m
发帖数: 25615
11
myelsa!大事不好了!
G*M
发帖数: 6042
12
无所谓,判断异端邪教用的是神的标准

【在 E*****m 的大作中提到】
: myelsa!大事不好了!
E*****m
发帖数: 25615
13
myelsa 說過 Smith 跟其他老婆沒性關係,這裡是反證。

【在 G*M 的大作中提到】
: 无所谓,判断异端邪教用的是神的标准
b*********d
发帖数: 596
14
CCWiki明显是在反讽,说相声。你和winter又误解了

【在 s****y 的大作中提到】
: 你相信摩门教的长老、Joseph Smith的妻子、Joseph Smith的私人秘书都撒谎了。
: 但是你相信200年后的某个信徒不会撒谎,而且她对他的私事知道得比他的妻子、私人
: 秘书还清楚。
: 是么?

G*M
发帖数: 6042
15
说的是属灵上没有性关系,出息!

【在 E*****m 的大作中提到】
: myelsa 說過 Smith 跟其他老婆沒性關係,這裡是反證。
d********d
发帖数: 1424
16
一切都是比喻.

【在 G*M 的大作中提到】
: 说的是属灵上没有性关系,出息!
l*****a
发帖数: 38403
17
你有没有传播过谎言?

【在 C****i 的大作中提到】
: 我觉得小麦在这件事上没有撒谎,但是她讲的可能不是事实,因为她认为是事实其实是
: 别人的谎言。
: 我有过这样的经历,轻信了谎言

C****i
发帖数: 1776
18
不告诉你

【在 l*****a 的大作中提到】
: 你有没有传播过谎言?
l*****a
发帖数: 38403
19
掩耳盗铃

【在 C****i 的大作中提到】
: 不告诉你
1 (共1页)
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