m****a
发帖数: 9485 | 1 A Treasury from the East: What We Can Learn from Chinese Genealogy
http://lds.org/ensign/1988/10/a-treasury-from-the-east-what-we-
借过年之际，祝福各位新年快乐！
后期圣徒从恢复教会以来，奉命开始建立圣殿，实行在历史中失去的，在圣殿中为去世
的人施浸的教仪。后期圣徒也开始调研家谱，教会资助的家谱网站是美国最大的搜索祖
先的网站。
http://www.familysearch.org/eng/default.asp
为什么我们如此重视家谱？是因为我们相信耶稣的圆满福音，不仅仅是为那些在有生之
年能听到的人预备的，也是为所有人类儿女提供的。人死后福音还继续在灵界传播，借
着死者按照顺序的施浸，他们可以决定接受或者拒绝福音，接受的人，都可以在千禧年
中首先复活，起来享受平安的日子，这项工作会一直延续，并继续在千禧年中完成。现
在仅仅是个开头。
后期圣徒愿意学习一切有用的智慧，尊重和赞美一切美善的事物，因为我们深知，上帝
是全体人类儿女的天父，他是不偏心的，他珍爱每一个人，他的智慧从古以来就以不同
的方式，从不同的民族启示与人。他的儿子耶稣的赎价，他的宝血是为每一个人而流，
为每一个人提供机会均等的耶稣福音的救赎。 | m****a
发帖数: 9485 | 2 By Anthony W. Ferguson and Warrick H. Chin
Anthony W. Ferguson and Warrick H. Chin, "A Treasury from the East: What We
Can Learn from Chinese Genealogy", Ensign, Oct. 1988, 17
As we Latter-day Saints strive to strengthen our own family history research
skills, we can gain courage from the example of a people who have kept
genealogies on a large scale for thousands of years. Faithfully maintaining
records is not an easy task. But because of their vision and commitment, the
Chinese have carried out the work for centuries.
“Ancestor-mindedness” has served as a central thread throughout China’s
five thousand years of continuous civilization. Traditionally, the Chinese
believe that successes or failures are the ultimate result of the acts of
ancestors. Consequently, success and honor are “proof” of the greatness of
one’s forebears and bring honor and respect to them. At the same time,
personal successes and virtues ensure the same for descendants.
Thus, Chinese genealogies typically contain a great deal of information
extolling the virtues and abilities of ancestors and giving straightforward
advice from them to their descendants. The readers gain a feeling for what
is expected of them, what role their heritage has played in their
capabilities, and the importance of their own lives upon generations yet to
come.
Chinese Genealogy through History
As early as 1122 B.C., the rulers of the Chou dynasty established a bureau
to supervise the writing of royal genealogies. During the Wei-Chin dynasty
in A.D. 221, the state also began encouraging the gentry, or landed classes,
to maintain genealogies and to write clan histories.
Hundreds of years later, in the Sung dynasty (A.D. 960), a trend developed
toward collecting and maintaining genealogies among the other three main
classes of Chinese society—farmers, laborers, and merchants. They began to
view genealogy as more than a handful of pedigree charts tracing official
lines, and family genealogies began to include other information related to
the family.
When tribesmen from the north invaded China and established the Manchu Ch’
ing dynasty (A.D. 1644–1911), government attitudes toward the collection of
genealogies changed. Because of the war between the previous Ming dynasty
and the alien Ch’ing dynasty, anything interpreted as support of the Mings
or criticism of the Manchus was persecuted severely. Because the earliest
genealogies had emphasized native Chinese royal lines, Ch’ing leaders
suspected that many family histories contained statements about the need to
restore the Ming dynasty.
When many of the great classical records of China were revised and
reproduced during this period, all mention of genealogies was deleted. The
scholar class, which depended for its livelihood upon the ruling government,
subsequently lessened their genealogical work. However, the common people,
who had less contact with the government, continued with the work up to
modern times.
Following the revolution of 1911, which overthrew the Manchus and discarded
imperial rule in favor of more republican forms, scholars again began to
compile genealogies and local histories with great fervor. Later, the Sino-
Japanese War and the civil war between the Nationalist and Communist
governments disrupted these endeavors somewhat.
Today, many Chinese families in Taiwan and Hong Kong have their own family
histories, but there are many more who do not. Happily for these people, the
Genealogical Society of Utah has for many years busily microfilmed Chinese
clan genealogies and local histories in the major libraries and archives of
the world. More recently, they have filmed individual genealogies loaned by
families in Taiwan and elsewhere in Asia. They have also recently begun
cooperative microfilming projects in mainland China to acquire genealogies
and documents of historical value.
All of these records are being catalogued by the Church’s Family History
Department and will be made available to researchers throughout the world.
Because of the historical depth of Chinese genealogies, Chinese Latter-day
Saints may find themselves among the first Latter-day Saints to trace their
ancestry back more than a thousand years. | m****a
发帖数: 9485 | 3 What Is a Chinese Genealogy Like?
Most genealogies include five basic types of information: (1) clan origin; (
2) biographies of ancestors; (3) the pedigree itself; (4) information about
clan tombs, ancestral halls, schools, and so forth; and (5) instructions
from preceding generations to descendants. Usually the pedigree is the main
item, with the other information appearing in a preface. In modern times,
directories of living clan members have frequently been included.
Clan Origin Information. This section attempts to identify the earliest
known ancestor, describe how the surname was adopted, and indicate the
location of the initial family. It also traces the subsequent places to
which the family members or the clan in general might have migrated.
Biographies of Ancestors. Because compilers of Chinese genealogies wished to
encourage clan members to excel, they usually focused on the ancestors who
had achieved greatness in education, medicine, business, government, the
arts, philanthropy, or who had brought honor to the family and community by
scoring well on civil service examinations. These biographies usually
included poems and bibliographies of the more illustrious ancestors.
Information about the less famous or virtuous was typically restricted to
one or two lines, including information on birth, death, name of wife and
children, place of burial, and so on. Anciently, the names of female
children were usually omitted. However, extremely virtuous women merited
space in the genealogies. More recently, with the rise in the status of
women generally, they have been included. Since a woman belonged to her
husband’s clan after marriage, little subsequent information was supplied.
The Pedigree Itself. Although the Chinese have employed different styles of
pedigree charts, the information portrayed is basically the same.
Generations are linked vertically, and brothers are listed on the same row
from right to left. To aid in the compilation of pedigrees, the Chinese
provide a distinct personal name for each generation. If the same system
were found among Western families, all children of the same generation
within the extended family might share a common name, such as George John,
George Albert, or even George Elizabeth. Likewise, their children, the next
generation, would share another common name: Thomas Andrew, Thomas Mary, or
Thomas Phillip.
Information about Clan Sites. Genealogies typically included maps of tomb
locations along with diagrams detailing individual grave sites. Attention
was also given to ancestral halls, family lands, and instructions on their
use.
Normally, well-developed genealogies included long lists of rites to be
performed and rules to be followed. In addition, they generally provided a
great deal of detail on how to use family lands. For example, in 1841, the
Chang family genealogy of Chekiang Province specified that profits from the
land should provide for the worship of ancestors lacking direct descendants;
help poor clan members when harvests were bad; aid poor elderly people,
orphans, widows, and men over the age of thirty who could not afford to get
married; purchase burial land and schools for the poor; and provide
transportation costs for students to attend exams in faraway cities.
Instructions for Succeeding Generations. These guidelines were usually
direct instructions for good behavior, along with poems and essays to help
succeeding generations know what to do. For example, the 1928 Pi family
genealogy from Shantung Province enjoined clan members to honor parents,
love brothers, respect elders, befriend clansmen, teach womenfolk, work hard
, selflessly serve, teach manners, disdain filthy language, abstain from
arrogance, and avoid listlessness and wasteful or stingy actions.
Genealogies sometimes also contain information about what should be taught
to the students of the family and what rules the young people should obey. | m****a
发帖数: 9485 | 4 What Can We Learn from Chinese Genealogy?
From the Chinese, we Latter-day Saints can better understand the importance
of our own records for those who follow. The way in which Chinese
genealogies have influenced behavior over the centuries is a historical
testament to the wisdom of President Spencer W. Kimball’s suggestion: “
What could you do better for your children and your children’s children
than to record the story of your life, your triumphs over adversity, your
recovery after a fall, your progress when all seemed black, your rejoicing
when you had finally achieved?” (New Era, Oct. 1975, p. 5.)
As the Chinese have done, we can add to our life stories direct
interpretations of what we have learned and what our descendants could do to
benefit from our experiences. We recognize the wisdom in the gospel
injunction, “Of him unto whom much is given much is required.” (D&C 82:3.)
Chinese genealogies reflect this precept by making sure that succeeding
generations realize what has gone before and what level of excellence is
expected. Consequently, the genealogies not only convey hopes for what
should be done, but also provide biographical vignettes of how correct
principles have led to success in their ancestors’ lives.
The cohesiveness and discipline that exist in many Chinese families have
developed in part because most Chinese have strong impressions of the debt
they owe to their ancestors—and the responsibility they have to add to that
heritage. Their genealogies have performed a valuable role in producing
responsible family members. Similarly, our records may, in the hands of our
descendants, help to teach correct principles and unite generations. | b*********n
发帖数: 1607 | 5 阴间的灵魂不能信不能悔改，只能接受神的审判。只有活人可以信，可以悔改。摩门教
曲解圣经。 | l*****a
发帖数: 38403 | 6 拿个灵魂出来看看
【在 b*********n 的大作中提到】
: 阴间的灵魂不能信不能悔改，只能接受神的审判。只有活人可以信，可以悔改。摩门教
: 曲解圣经。
| i*****t
发帖数: 24265 | 7 拿出圣经来证明,否则不要随意论断
【在 b*********n 的大作中提到】
: 阴间的灵魂不能信不能悔改，只能接受神的审判。只有活人可以信，可以悔改。摩门教
: 曲解圣经。
| m****a
发帖数: 9485 | 8
圣经明明说了，大审判要等千禧年以后才进行。请问为什么要有千禧年？人要复活后才
有审判。死后就直接审判了？要有两次复活，第一次是在千禧年期间，第二次要在大审
判之前，这也是圣经里面启示录揭示的。
耶稣曾去灵监为洪水中死去的人传道，第一世纪的人也曾为死人受浸，这是圣经里面的
记载，现在又恢复了这些流传而失去的做法。
上帝不是小肚鸡肠的上帝，他愿意越多人悔改越好，接受他儿子提供给所有人的赎价福
音。要您这样说，请问从没听见福音的人又如何？千禧年的安排就是要拯救更多的人的。
不要试图提前审判任何人，这不是我们的工作。
关于圣经有关死人的灵也可以听到福音，生者为他们所作的传道工作，请参考：
http://www.mitbbs.com/article/Belief/31326689_0.html
【在 b*********n 的大作中提到】
: 阴间的灵魂不能信不能悔改，只能接受神的审判。只有活人可以信，可以悔改。摩门教
: 曲解圣经。
| p*****t
发帖数: 3693 | 9 家谱千万不能落在摩门教手里，不然会跟犹太人一样被强行死后受洗。 | m****a
发帖数: 9485 | 10
您误解了，摩门教替死去掉人受浸，是有一定要求的。
1）一定是跟自己有亲属关系的，能了解过世亲人的具体情况，比如生日，去世的时间
，跟代替受浸的人的关系等。代替受浸的亲属--就是摩门教徒，如同见证人一般，还有
教会专门的弟兄负责记录，存档。
2）受浸一定在圣殿进行。
3）被代替受浸的死者，他们的灵，跟在世的时候一样，有上帝赐予的选择权，就是自
由意志，他们有权接受和拒绝福音，没人能强迫的。上帝也不会强迫人。
所以，即便您给了我家谱，不经过您的同意，我也不能强行随便代替您的亲属受浸的。
因为我不是您的亲属，也并不认识您的家人。
这项工作现在仅仅是开了个头，在千禧年中会继续进行。全体人类，怎样完成呢？
已经接受福音的人会首先在千禧年复活过来，他们会纠正可能的一些家谱中的错误，
福音会在千禧年继续传播，在圣殿的代替死人的浸礼继续实行，到时候圣殿会很繁忙
的。这样一代一代的进行下去，直到亚当的一代。家谱关系才理清。这才有千禧年存
在的必要。上帝不是混乱的上帝，是有秩序的。
【在 p*****t 的大作中提到】
: 家谱千万不能落在摩门教手里，不然会跟犹太人一样被强行死后受洗。
| | | p*****t
发帖数: 3693 | 11 规矩是这样，执行起来显然不是的。奥巴马的妈妈还被受洗了呢，要不是被人指出后摩
门教堂忙不迭地
删掉，现在她的名字还会光荣的出现在摩门的名册里。这样的例子太多了，而摩门教堂
明显也是睁一只
眼闭一只眼。
【在 m****a 的大作中提到】
:
: 您误解了，摩门教替死去掉人受浸，是有一定要求的。
: 1）一定是跟自己有亲属关系的，能了解过世亲人的具体情况，比如生日，去世的时间
: ，跟代替受浸的人的关系等。代替受浸的亲属--就是摩门教徒，如同见证人一般，还有
: 教会专门的弟兄负责记录，存档。
: 2）受浸一定在圣殿进行。
: 3）被代替受浸的死者，他们的灵，跟在世的时候一样，有上帝赐予的选择权，就是自
: 由意志，他们有权接受和拒绝福音，没人能强迫的。上帝也不会强迫人。
: 所以，即便您给了我家谱，不经过您的同意，我也不能强行随便代替您的亲属受浸的。
: 因为我不是您的亲属，也并不认识您的家人。
| m****a
发帖数: 9485 | 12
指出错误就改。这样的事总会有的。改正就好，家谱中错误的也很多，现在是初期阶段
，真实情况恐怕要等待千禧年复活的时候，由复活的人纠正我们。
错了是一回事，愿不愿意改是另一回事。
【在 p*****t 的大作中提到】
: 规矩是这样，执行起来显然不是的。奥巴马的妈妈还被受洗了呢，要不是被人指出后摩
: 门教堂忙不迭地
: 删掉，现在她的名字还会光荣的出现在摩门的名册里。这样的例子太多了，而摩门教堂
: 明显也是睁一只
: 眼闭一只眼。
| m****a
发帖数: 9485 | | b*********n
发帖数: 1607 | 14 你说那么多都是转移焦点，你就把死人可以悔改的经文拿来。注意是允许私人悔改，而
不是把救恩成
就的消息告诉他们。
至于第一世纪给死人受洗。首先你圣经都读错。不是给死尸受洗，而是活人代替已经死
的人受洗礼，
算作死人得救。第二，保罗根本反对他们交鬼招魂付到活人身上然后洗了算得救的行为
。他们犯两个
错，第一个是交鬼招魂，妄图帮着死人得救。第二是不承认耶稣基督复活了。保罗是先
不和他们吵第
一个错。将错就错，先假定他们第一个如果对，那么他们连基督复活都不相信，还去忙
着招魂洗来洗
去，有什么用？
的。
【在 m****a 的大作中提到】
: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_cfGoOaXR8&feature=related
| m****a
发帖数: 9485 | 15
经文我已经拿出了，怎么理解是一回事。当然不是给死尸受浸，是活人代替已经死去而从没有受浸的人的浸礼，接受福音与否还是死去人的灵自己决定，是接受还是拒绝。
您可以把死人死后的灵不可以悔改的经文拿出来。这样讨论一下不好吗？
死人死后的状况如何呢？信耶稣的人在哪里？不信的人在哪里？
【在 b*********n 的大作中提到】
: 你说那么多都是转移焦点，你就把死人可以悔改的经文拿来。注意是允许私人悔改，而
: 不是把救恩成
: 就的消息告诉他们。
: 至于第一世纪给死人受洗。首先你圣经都读错。不是给死尸受洗，而是活人代替已经死
: 的人受洗礼，
: 算作死人得救。第二，保罗根本反对他们交鬼招魂付到活人身上然后洗了算得救的行为
: 。他们犯两个
: 错，第一个是交鬼招魂，妄图帮着死人得救。第二是不承认耶稣基督复活了。保罗是先
: 不和他们吵第
: 一个错。将错就错，先假定他们第一个如果对，那么他们连基督复活都不相信，还去忙
| b*********n
发帖数: 1607 | 16 你拿不出来死人可以悔改的经文，你就是自己往圣经里加东西。如果死人可以悔改，传
福音有必要
吗？死人的灵都尝过地狱，也知道真有神，不用传都巴不得赶紧被赦免，个个都怕的要
死，想跑出地
狱。没有一个会不悔改的。那除了撒旦不会有人下火湖。
看看神怎么说：
马太福音
7:22 当那日，必有许多人对我说：‘主啊，主啊，我们不是奉你的名传道，奉你的名
赶鬼，奉你的
名行许多异能吗？’
7:23 我就明明地告诉他们说：‘我从来不认识你们，你们这些作恶的人，离开我去吧
！’
这些假冒神的名做恶的人，按你的说法他们也有机会在死后悔改，他们死了到过阴间，
能不悔改吗？
肯定要悔改，肯定不要在地狱里。可是审判日到来的时候，神怎么说？神说“我从来不
认识你们”。根
本不给他们悔改机会。
而从没有受浸
的人的浸礼，接受福音与否还是死去人的灵自己决定，是接受还是拒绝。
【在 m****a 的大作中提到】
:
: 经文我已经拿出了，怎么理解是一回事。当然不是给死尸受浸，是活人代替已经死去而从没有受浸的人的浸礼，接受福音与否还是死去人的灵自己决定，是接受还是拒绝。
: 您可以把死人死后的灵不可以悔改的经文拿出来。这样讨论一下不好吗？
: 死人死后的状况如何呢？信耶稣的人在哪里？不信的人在哪里？
| m****a
发帖数: 9485 | 17
作恶的人悔改，是上帝的心意，上帝尚且愿意，人不乐意吗？人是否就喜欢恶人下火湖
死亡呢？上帝的心可是伟大的多，仁慈的多，宽广的多。赦免罪是一回事，罪人自己愿
意悔改是必要条件，否则罪赦免了自己还继续作恶，不肯悔改，救恩怎能蒙到呢。只要
恶人愿意回转，悔改，借着耶稣的赎价，救恩才可以应用所有愿意悔改的人身上，无论
是谁。
看看圣经的经文如何说？以西结33：11
你对他们说，主耶和华说，我指着我的永生起誓，我断不喜悦恶人死亡，惟喜悦恶人转
离所行的道而活。以色列家阿，你们转回，转回吧。离开恶道，何必死亡呢？
【在 b*********n 的大作中提到】
: 你拿不出来死人可以悔改的经文，你就是自己往圣经里加东西。如果死人可以悔改，传
: 福音有必要
: 吗？死人的灵都尝过地狱，也知道真有神，不用传都巴不得赶紧被赦免，个个都怕的要
: 死，想跑出地
: 狱。没有一个会不悔改的。那除了撒旦不会有人下火湖。
: 看看神怎么说：
: 马太福音
: 7:22 当那日，必有许多人对我说：‘主啊，主啊，我们不是奉你的名传道，奉你的名
: 赶鬼，奉你的
: 名行许多异能吗？’
| b*********n
发帖数: 1607 | 18 以西结33：11说的是活人，不是死人的灵。不要张冠李戴。
【在 m****a 的大作中提到】
:
: 作恶的人悔改，是上帝的心意，上帝尚且愿意，人不乐意吗？人是否就喜欢恶人下火湖
: 死亡呢？上帝的心可是伟大的多，仁慈的多，宽广的多。赦免罪是一回事，罪人自己愿
: 意悔改是必要条件，否则罪赦免了自己还继续作恶，不肯悔改，救恩怎能蒙到呢。只要
: 恶人愿意回转，悔改，借着耶稣的赎价，救恩才可以应用所有愿意悔改的人身上，无论
: 是谁。
: 看看圣经的经文如何说？以西结33：11
: 你对他们说，主耶和华说，我指着我的永生起誓，我断不喜悦恶人死亡，惟喜悦恶人转
: 离所行的道而活。以色列家阿，你们转回，转回吧。离开恶道，何必死亡呢？
| m****a
发帖数: 9485 | 19
你拿不出来死人可以悔改的经文，你就是自己往圣经里加东西。如果死人可以悔改，传
福音有必要
吗？死人的灵都尝过地狱，也知道真有神，不用传都巴不得赶紧被赦免，个个都怕的要
死，想跑出地
狱。没有一个会不悔改的。那除了撒旦不会有人下火湖。
》》》》》》我已经拿出经文了，您没有拿出死人的灵不可以悔改的经文。
您说的其实对，恶人悔改是好事，只要是千禧年还没有结束，就有机会。因为最后的大
审判是在千禧年结束才开始的。得救的人，越多，岂不是更好？
看看神怎么说：
马太福音
7:22 当那日，必有许多人对我说：‘主啊，主啊，我们不是奉你的名传道，奉你的名
赶鬼，奉你的
名行许多异能吗？’
7:23 我就明明地告诉他们说：‘我从来不认识你们，你们这些作恶的人，离开我去吧
！’
》》》》》》您在这里引用这段经文，是什么意思呢？这里说作恶的人，知道福音已经
领受了，跟上帝立了约了，还继续作恶，就是虚假的相信耶稣，当然您不是这样的人。
是谁，只有上帝知道。
这些假冒神的名做恶的人，按你的说法他们也有机会在死后悔改，他们死了到过阴间，
能不悔改吗？
肯定要悔改，肯定不要在地狱里。可是审判日到来的时候，神怎么说？神说“我从来不
认识你们”。根
本不给他们悔改机会。
》》》》》》只要是大审判之前，什么人都可以悔改，都有时间悔改，真心的悔改，有
实际行动的悔改，借着耶稣的赎价，都是可以赦免的，早悔改，早得救，早平安。
参考传福音的重要意义：
http://www.mitbbs.com/article_t/Belief/31327727.html
【在 b*********n 的大作中提到】
: 你拿不出来死人可以悔改的经文，你就是自己往圣经里加东西。如果死人可以悔改，传
: 福音有必要
: 吗？死人的灵都尝过地狱，也知道真有神，不用传都巴不得赶紧被赦免，个个都怕的要
: 死，想跑出地
: 狱。没有一个会不悔改的。那除了撒旦不会有人下火湖。
: 看看神怎么说：
: 马太福音
: 7:22 当那日，必有许多人对我说：‘主啊，主啊，我们不是奉你的名传道，奉你的名
: 赶鬼，奉你的
: 名行许多异能吗？’
| m****a
发帖数: 9485 | 20
这节并不是说死人的，这节是对所有作恶的人说的。
您拿出死人不可能悔改的经文啊，请啊，我已经问了很多次了。
【在 b*********n 的大作中提到】
: 以西结33：11说的是活人，不是死人的灵。不要张冠李戴。
| m****a
发帖数: 9485 | |
|
