f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 1 agree, mini-raising with AQo pre is meaningless, it achieves nothing:
1) no fold equity at all;
2) build an awkward pot without position and only medium strength AQo? no;
3) hide your real strength with an ok hand and take a flop? this mini-
raising doesn't do it, or instead, the other way.
as on the flop, shoving is not good in general with Qd but better than check
shoving. if you check here and he bets, there's no turning around at all
for him to fold for his stack size. even in the "best" sce... 阅读全帖 |
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W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 2 I read a post on 2+2. someone mentioned that "a lot of people have a wider
calling shove range than their shove range on river". I guess this is
probably another one of the biggest leaks in microstake poker. Is your
calling range wider than your shove range on river? |
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a**o
发帖数: 730 | 3 两次都是在LAX赌场，从来没有见过这么loose的地方，$1-2 NL, $40-100 buyin. 桌子
上基本都是donk, 一个flush draw就allin, top pair low kicker就allin或者call到
死。桌子除我之外只有一个两个tight week player, 其他都是very loose. 基本没有
3bet, 如果有3bet就是shove. My image is tight.
88那把，我在CO, 我open 5bb, 我后面一个人20bb shove. 这个人非常loose, open
any suited cards。他曾经用Q8o赢了我的qq. 那把牌我raise 6bb, he called,
others fold. Flop 569r. I bet 10bb, he allin, I called. Turn 7, he won.
AQs那次，我在UTG, open 5bb, all others fold, CO一个loose player输光了所有的
chips, just rebought 20bb. Fold to h... 阅读全帖 |
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W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 4 I have been thinking about hands like this a lot. I would love to have some
more discussion here. I don't quite see how I can call the shove. Because
through all of his range of hand listed here. I am either drawing dead, big
underdog or slight advantage. Hard to imagin that I can get +EV out of this.
If it is a raised reraised pot preflop, then it is a much easier call
shove from me.
If I won't call a shove, then i feel I should just call flop. Not planning
to call down to river but to give |
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W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 5 I over shove AA soemtimes too when there is someone opens. But what if you
have pocket As at LP when everyone fold to you? do you open shove as well?
That would be a waste. it is not only AA KK. QQ AK is the same really when you hit TPTK or over pair at flop. And for those hand you can't even open shove anymore to be profitable
10
double |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 6 1) i don't like the preflop 4-bet with AQo;
2) with only Qd on the one tone flop, i'm not sure whether shove or check
shove is a +ev play, wait for EV MM's comments bah. to me, his stack size
and pre-flop action guarantee a call most of time, without Kd or Ad in your
hand (more likely in his), your winning % may shrink big.
shov
equit
上定 |
|
W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 7 i would fold AQo at utg+1 facing mp1 3 bet most of the time. Nothing good comes out of it by 4 betting. If you do 4 bet, remember it is a bluff, I think you should probably be check-folding a lot of flops. So 4 bet 2.5X always and you can get away post flop (do it with AA KK here too so you do not give a tell on sizing. there is really no need to 4 bet larger with AA KK either unless you are 200bb deep. ). Your fold equity does not change much.
As played i don't think you can fold post flop wit... 阅读全帖 |
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a**o
发帖数: 730 | 8 Yesterday I got two hands, AQs and 88, both time I raised to 5bb, someone
shove with 20bb, everyone fold, and I fold. Both players were very loose,
their open range is very wide, but I do not know their shove range. Will you
call the shove with AQs and 88? |
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d*****0
发帖数: 1500 | 9 建议楼主带本小说书去打这样的tourney，30bb到100bb只玩QQ＋，AKo，pre flop 4到
5bb open／get in。对上donk玩家，flop2/3大cbet任何A和K的牌面或者是overpair on
low board，从turn开始straight forward，算好顶对以上牌力到river正好get in。
没牌的时候就看看书吧
20bb以下，可以开始直接推了，省事儿，自己心里定个方案，比如3bet shove的range
，你身后几个哥们儿会拿什么牌接你的在不同短筹情况下的open shove，和那个range
持平，或者保守点，再提两个level。
基本上无脑进钱圈啊 呵呵 就是无聊点
那这样看来的话，你aqs和88，那两手牌，怎么都是call shove。还是那句话，虽然说
，你可以fold然后等待更好的机会来double up，但是，你open的size太大，让你的
call的odds变得非常好了，这里如果fold，反而是亏了ev。
即使不幸遇上对手的top range（事实上，这个发生的％已经很小了），你仍然会有相
当大的％suckout。关... 阅读全帖 |
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|
发帖数: 1 | 11 #FAKENEWS UPDATE: Trump Did Not SHOVE Montenegro Leader – Protocol
Puts US in Front Row – Montenegro Is NOT a NATO Member
President Trump was just being assertive. He actually patted the Prime
Minister on the back. This is exactly how the President of the United States
should be.
Montenegro is NOT in NATO, yet.
Montenegro may become the 29th member, soon.
And NATO protocol calls for alphabetical order with a few exceptions,
including the U.S. having a place of honor in the front, next to the UK
... 阅读全帖 |
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p*******p
发帖数: 13670 | 12 yah, I expect this should be a +EV shove, I did shove, and he has pocket 5,
and as always ,I never draw out, lol
you
is
makes |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 13 like any weapon in your arsenal, over shoving is just one of them, it has
much more value in micro stack rush poker, which doesn't mean you use it too
often to become a trackable pattern.
for LP, when everyone folds to you, the most likely case is that CO/BT
normally are waiting for stealing opportunity (in rush poker), and SB/BB has
nothing even for a 3x bet. over shoving might be too much, 5/6x would be
enough, hehe.
the power of AA/KK is to force your supicious hero callers to play a short
ga |
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W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 14 shove pre with KK so i can sleep better at night knowing that I didn't
fold to AK or QQ.
Or you can flat 4 bet and shove flop. |
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B*********s
发帖数: 4158 | 15 为啥我4-bet with AQo, 这个对手3-bet way too much (10%). 看见flop我就直接shov
e了。后来想想check-shove似乎更好，因为对手拿着over pair或者set的话fold equit
y应该不会有什么变化，如果是check-check, 我还能看一张free card再重新在turn上定
位，想听下大家的意见。PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (9 handed
BB ($24.15)
UTG ($25.81)
Hero (UTG+1) ($35.75)
MP1 ($25.35)
MP2 ($25)
MP3 ($48.88)
CO ($25)
Button ($25)
SB ($10.17)
Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with Qd, As
1 fold, Hero bets $0.75, MP1 raises to $2.25, 6 folds, Hero raises to $6.50,
MP1 calls $4.25
Flop: ($13.35) 2d, Jd, ... 阅读全帖 |
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l*****g
发帖数: 1128 | 16 分析得是有道理.但他要不shove的话chips就全是你的了. 还有, 他shove也是怕QK,
A10之类的hit到flop,99这种牌还是很难碰到那种全是under card的flop的.
嘛。 |
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d*****0
发帖数: 1500 | 17 lz请详细说下，哪个stage，多少人left，钱圈多少人，对手大约的open比例，flat比
例，3bet比例，以及两把牌各自的位置，楼主自己的形象，桌子普遍open size，等等
一切有关系的信息
对我来说
5bb open is way big，i only use this kinda big open on wild loose/donk table
with AQ+／jj＋ and no brainer get in for 20ish bb effective stack（except
facing rock lol）.
IMO, the open range/size highly depends on table dynamic and opponents'
level.
if you feel ppl are willing to call your shove with ATs, 77 or even worse,
you may just open shove AQs/88 if you really don't want to fold them.
另外一点... 阅读全帖 |
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p*******p
发帖数: 13670 | 18 yah, I expect this should be a +EV shove, I did shove, and he has pocket 5,
and as always ,I never draw out, lol
you
is
makes |
|
z*****8
发帖数: 2546 | 19 Wrong man arrested: not this jogger shoved a woman into the path of an
oncoming bus on Putney Bridge, in London.
Millionaire banker Eric Bellquist, 41, was wrongly arrested in connection to
the attack. He was dramatically hauled away in handcuffs from his home. He
has received death threats and been forced to hire a bodyguard after he was
wrongfully detained. The Police could have avoided the embarrassment of
arresting the wrong man by simply googling his name since he never jogs in
that area. A... 阅读全帖 |
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z*****8
发帖数: 2546 | 20 Wrong man arrested: not this jogger shoved a woman into the path of an
oncoming bus on Putney Bridge, in London.
Millionaire banker Eric Bellquist, 41, was wrongly arrested in connection to
the attack. He was dramatically hauled away in handcuffs from his home. He
has received death threats and been forced to hire a bodyguard after he was
wrongfully detained. The Police could have avoided the embarrassment of
arresting the wrong man by simply googling his name since he never jogs in
that area. A... 阅读全帖 |
|
|
f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 22 all-in now.
his bet size is too much, not really like a set, more like a TT-QQ hand (
wait to see a low flop). strong is weak, weak is strong.
your flop bet is bigger than normal, and he raises 4x:
1) he could put you on a naked c-bet with two high. if so, he's telling you
to go out NOW, no more catch-up;
2) you could have an over pair, or A9 hand, but he's happy with winning
right here.
there's no turn play for you any more, it's either shove or fold here on
flop. |
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W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 23 I am dealth KhKc at CO.
LP limp in 25c,
I raise to 1.25$, everyoen folds, LP call.
we both have around 30$ 120b.
flop 6d5d4c,
LP Lead pot 3$, I raise to 6$, LP shoves.
I fold..
Ok fold?
Is it better just to call flop and plan to fold turn? He could have a
monster draw or 2 pair, straight, set type of hand, even though it is
screeming to me that it is a set. But a scary card comes, it might just
slow him down that I can see a show down or steal a pot? |
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W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 24 是不是call 比raise好呢? 我感觉raise fold shove 还不如call flop and fold
turn. |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 25 yes, hard to imagine you're way ahead here. it's only ok to call his shove,
or fold if you feel uncomfortable or have some notes on him.
flat call is fine if you can re-evaluate on the turn. i agree mini-raising
to $6 might be the worst play here:
1) not enough to get good drawing hands out;
2) give him a chance to pop up;
3) almost no outs for you down the road;
4) stack is too big;
5) $6, he has a much better idea what you may hold than you, playing cards
face-up is the worst in poker.
in part |
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W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 26 does it make a difference if I started with 80X bb? I think call is still better for the same reason. raise make it simple for his decision, shove or fold. Call make him guess our hand. Make him work out of position. He has got draws, he is in trouble without making it. He has got sets, he is in trouble when flush comes out. there is no hand he could have without having a scary card.
, |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 27 if you only got $8 left (once you call), then the decision is much simpler,
re-shove back.
that's the core of short-medium stack play. |
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p**********1
发帖数: 1458 | 28 disclaimer, I am a donk.
3-handed, ATs is very good. I guess it depends more on how the table has
been playing lately, mostly whether you have some showdown with solid hole
cards recently at button/co or your image is loose/super aggressive and
people think you are just stealing pot after pot. if image loose, definitely
shove.
even if lose the showdown, it may make later stealing at button/sb easier
because of fear factor, many people don't like big confrontation and the
risk of elimination. |
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s*********k
发帖数: 1989 | 29 he has <1/2 pot of yours. It is ok to shove( I would do so). Fold is fine
also.
Many times, he has KTs/KJs. If he has AK/AQ, he will allin. |
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B*********s
发帖数: 4158 | 30 假设都是100bb的样子，对手unknown,utg+2 raise, hero sb KK 3-bet, utg+2 4-bet
35bb左右，你们都是100% shove么。我怎么总撞AA啊，不知道是不是leak...... |
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G********r
发帖数: 666 | 31 "对手unknown" -- this is a killer of them all.... unless you just sit down,
you should have a rough idea and ideally a good read to decide whether
facing a large 4-bet preflop potential all-in flop bet you need to lay it
down preflop (yes, occasionally you need to lay down KK preflop; sometimes
it is quite obvious your opponent has AA, but I'm sure a lot of folks would
disagree and laugh at me here. lol. This is easier done in live games as
you get a read from body languages, which you get none o... 阅读全帖 |
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d*****0
发帖数: 1500 | 32 hud 开起来，只fold给 known super 紧弱，just my 2 cent
有人说 pf aa对kk的几率小于0.1%, UNKNOWN的话shove brainlessly |
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L****n
发帖数: 490 | 33 It depends on villain's position and stack size. Short stack can shove your 3 bet with light range. EP tends to 4 bet more with value hands than Later position. It depends on your image as well. If your 3 bet percentage is too narrow, then villain's 4 bet range is mostly AA,KK. Unless villain is a maniac. |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 34 20BB shove, think he's weak? think again. |
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w**********y
发帖数: 1691 | 35 Happy new year, gamblers! ^_^
%%Background:
I was playing in a local poker club for almost half a year. The game is $1/$
3 with unlimited straddle and sleeper. It is at the similar level as $2/$5
in Borgata. Preflop bet is usually $15 to $25.
Last nite, there were 9 ppl. I played with most of them before. Half of the
players is LAG. 1/2 of these LAGs can bet/call/raise with any two cards
preflop.
Villain is super aggressive. Lots of cbets and many bluffings.
He bought in $1k or $2K every time, a... 阅读全帖 |
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b*******s
发帖数: 1175 | 36 2/3/5NL game action table, Hero limps in at button with Td4d for 20 with 5
other guys. Flop Ad5d4c. SB with about 500 bets 45, UTG allin with 200,
cutoff-1 allin 350, cutoff(chip leader with 2500) calls. Action to hero with
about 600 chips. Do you shove or fold? |
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p****r
发帖数: 9164 | 37 2-5 NL.
relative passive table. A new comer(old guy) just sat down with 140$. he
limped in MP, I think he is pretty weak and raised to 25$ on button with 78o
and tried to steal it. both SB and BB folded and mp called. He then said "
check in the dark"
.
flop came J 8 3, two spade. I have one spade in my hand, so I have a
middle pair with backdooor str draw and flush draw. Since he checked in the
dark, I bet 35$, he shoved the rest of his stack- about 80$ more for me to
call.
Against h... 阅读全帖 |
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T*********k
发帖数: 1621 | 38 A NIT would have ISO short stack with A6o? And shove ATo against KKs and
pray for a suckout?
Finally I were able to sit down and obeserve. Yesterday I saw you open / limp into a pot more than Isildur1 in a heads-up game. At last I can see
through your smoke screen now. You are not week tight as you always adverstised.
You are a big loose cannon!!! |
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c*****t
发帖数: 817 | 39 Final 4.
我从UTG RAISE。KQxT board。两个草花。敌人turn上donk bet 1/5 pot。
我拿着QJo。一想敌人除非是拿着AJ clubs，不然强牌不可能只bet这么一点。
再一看自己正好剩下一个pot-sized bet。于是就shove了。
觉得自己能fold所有的draw，AQ,以及weak king.
结果这个贱人居然拿着AJo这么打。太诡异了。
好在我call的结局多半是一样的。因为river是blank。贱人可能会重注来找回value。
我肯定会instant hero call.然后一边不屑地想:"有flush draw的时候下小注.miss了
狗急跳墙下大柱.这种bluff哥见的多了." |
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z******n
发帖数: 8851 | 40 If they are very loose as you say, pot is already >25bb, and you need 15bb
to call, loose players shoving range is too wide, you hands are much better,
at least 50-50 to me, so both hands I would call...
you |
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a**o
发帖数: 730 | 41 昨天输了两把QQ,另外一把有个人call with 35s, I shove on turn, he called with
flush draw, and hit flush on river. 运气不好没办法。不过总的来说，这种very
loose桌子值得玩吗？
I
and
t |
|
q****8
发帖数: 3281 | 42 so you think 95% players shove AA like that... |
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D*A
发帖数: 1169 | 43 wrong logic.
i believe this shove is 95% AA. |
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q****8
发帖数: 3281 | 44 我是指不同意那位的第二句话。这在我看来是个无脑CALL。
碰到过一次类似的。我OPEN 3BB WITH QQ，ONE CALL, ONE SHOVE FOR 100BB, I CALL
AND LOSE TO AA. 但一个全是LIMP IN,一个是OPEN RAISE，还是有很大区别的。 |
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D********2
发帖数: 2153 | 45 1500 shove 一个60 pot with ak 也能算tight?
+
preflop
me? |
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W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 46 是不是durr 来borgata NL100 来逗我们鱼玩了丫？ 说实话这个3 bet shove 太厉害了
。完全crush 我们这些weak reg 的打法啊。。。。。 |
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x*******0
发帖数: 94 | 47 not instant call but will call for sure
no way to fold your str8 since opp cannot put you on such a garbage hand and
finally hit it and also u had position.
why he can reshove and u could fold? since u checked on the turn seems u
have nothing or very weak hand. river u mini raise could be value bet for
your two pairs ( he may put u have that ) and str8 is the nuts so he took
the chance to fire on u.
almost works. it shows u have very big leak on this game when they make big
bet and if you do not... 阅读全帖 |
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x*******0
发帖数: 94 | 48 这种牌，怎么打？
首先，你要判断那个人的牌可能是什么？ 因为如果人家AK， 你也是50%输可能性。
如果你觉得他raise 40 基本是大对或者Ak，那么你就要3bet 人家，试别人是什么，一
般的玩家，如果是AK，遇到你的3bet， 会平call， 但如果是KK 或者 AA，他会4bet
shove（如果他在500刀左右的话），这个时候你就能fold了。如果他reshove 你是可以
fold掉的。
QQ 永远没有慢打的理由，因为他会很容易别人beat。
再来分析这把牌，在folp，JJ 选择平call， 明显说明他的牌力一般，因为你call 了
40刀，我想你的image肯定很tight，对方肯定已经把你放在大对或者AK上面了，所以他
只能call了，他不知道你的action是什么 因为你在他后面，如果他all in， 你call了
，他就知道他死了，如果他call 你all in，他还能fold。 但你没读到这个问题。 |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 49 all-in now.
his bet size is too much, not really like a set, more like a TT-QQ hand (
wait to see a low flop). strong is weak, weak is strong.
your flop bet is bigger than normal, and he raises 4x:
1) he could put you on a naked c-bet with two high. if so, he's telling you
to go out NOW, no more catch-up;
2) you could have an over pair, or A9 hand, but he's happy with winning
right here.
there's no turn play for you any more, it's either shove or fold here on
flop. |
|
d*****0
发帖数: 1500 | 50 1 1K 11
2 750 3.3 $7.78
3 1.5K 11
4 1K 11
5 1.5K 3.3+3+3 $28.75
6 3K 11+10+10
1号，UTG+1,TJs 12bb open shove，take down。UTG A7o open shove 14bb into QQ,
knockout
2号，大盲位88 14bb 3bet shove rock 2.1x open + a flatter，take down。换桌，
第一把，UTG 16bb open shove with A9o，被两家AJo call到，suckout！紧接着第二
把，AKo，接了16bb 和8bb的两连推，hold！wow！card dead + busy with other
tables ＝ auto ITM，呵呵。hero 大盲位，55 10bb stack call EP 5bb shove>A9s。
UTG+1 TJo 13bb shove，take down。换桌，UTG 33，15bb，看到大小盲均... 阅读全帖 |
|
