K****D
发帖数: 30533 | 1 和比自己弱的人打球，来球比较慢，往往有足够时间setup, 并且考虑
击球线路，容易overpower对手。
和比自己强的人打球，来球比较快，所以哪怕站位正确，仍然很难回出
有威胁的球，具体体现就是机会球发不出力/打不出角度，威胁不够。
这个现象常见吗？有没有什么策略更正？ |
g*****y
发帖数: 7271 | 2 Isn't this called being overpowered ? With such a ball, how can you call it
机会球 ?
BTW, I remember you said you cannot be overpowered by 3.5ish person, no?
【在 K****D 的大作中提到】
: 和比自己弱的人打球，来球比较慢，往往有足够时间setup, 并且考虑
: 击球线路，容易overpower对手。
: 和比自己强的人打球，来球比较快，所以哪怕站位正确，仍然很难回出
: 有威胁的球，具体体现就是机会球发不出力/打不出角度，威胁不够。
: 这个现象常见吗？有没有什么策略更正？
|
K****D
发帖数: 30533 | 3 I said "I cannot overpower a 3.5 player's backhand", not the other
way around. Of course they can overpower me.
I was talking about such balls that are not with angle. They are
coming directly towards me, not too deep, not too fast. And the
opponent might not be in position. I just need to hit a 暴力正手
to establish advantage. But usually I hit a mild paced ball without
angle...
it
【在 g*****y 的大作中提到】
: Isn't this called being overpowered ? With such a ball, how can you call it
: 机会球 ?
: BTW, I remember you said you cannot be overpowered by 3.5ish person, no?
|
g*****y
发帖数: 7271 | 4
No, you said players 0.5 level higher than you cannot overpower you if I
remember correctly. Later on, you agreed that they might overpower your
backhand, no?
I don't understand why you cannot do 暴力正手 to a shallow, slow ball when
you are in position. That does not look like your original question.
【在 K****D 的大作中提到】
: I said "I cannot overpower a 3.5 player's backhand", not the other
: way around. Of course they can overpower me.
: I was talking about such balls that are not with angle. They are
: coming directly towards me, not too deep, not too fast. And the
: opponent might not be in position. I just need to hit a 暴力正手
: to establish advantage. But usually I hit a mild paced ball without
: angle...
:
: it
|
m*****r
发帖数: 3822 | 5 无他，快引拍
【在 K****D 的大作中提到】
: 和比自己弱的人打球，来球比较慢，往往有足够时间setup, 并且考虑
: 击球线路，容易overpower对手。
: 和比自己强的人打球，来球比较快，所以哪怕站位正确，仍然很难回出
: 有威胁的球，具体体现就是机会球发不出力/打不出角度，威胁不够。
: 这个现象常见吗？有没有什么策略更正？
|
w******n
发帖数: 13172 | 6 别跟老肯较真，他不过是努力挖坑而已。坑挖多了难免有打架的地方。。。
【在 g*****y 的大作中提到】
:
: No, you said players 0.5 level higher than you cannot overpower you if I
: remember correctly. Later on, you agreed that they might overpower your
: backhand, no?
: I don't understand why you cannot do 暴力正手 to a shallow, slow ball when
: you are in position. That does not look like your original question.
|
K****D
发帖数: 30533 | 7 I might have said +0.5 players don't necessarily hit faster balls
than me. If you take it as "they cannot overpower me" it is a
misunderstanding. I am a 攻强守弱 player, i.e., I cannot even handle
my own ball pace. If I play with a player like myself I will make
a lot more UEs.
The reason I cannot do 暴力正手 is because those balls are shallow
w/o angle, but not as slow as I wish. Or they might have more spin
than what I like.
【在 g*****y 的大作中提到】
:
: No, you said players 0.5 level higher than you cannot overpower you if I
: remember correctly. Later on, you agreed that they might overpower your
: backhand, no?
: I don't understand why you cannot do 暴力正手 to a shallow, slow ball when
: you are in position. That does not look like your original question.
|
K****D
发帖数: 30533 | 8 也就是说只要适应了就行了？i.e., 只是一个timing问题，而不需要花
更大的力？
【在 m*****r 的大作中提到】
: 无他，快引拍
|
h*******s
发帖数: 8454 | 9 适应就行了
【在 K****D 的大作中提到】
: 也就是说只要适应了就行了？i.e., 只是一个timing问题，而不需要花
: 更大的力？
|
K****D
发帖数: 30533 | 10 This is not keng! It's my true experience!
【在 w******n 的大作中提到】
: 别跟老肯较真，他不过是努力挖坑而已。坑挖多了难免有打架的地方。。。
|
|
|
a*****3
发帖数: 10373 | 11 嗯,就是适应.
预判 + footwork -> 及时到位 -> 有足够时间引拍 -> overpower
这就是我说的，要与比自己水平高的多打才能真正提高！而不是你自己拍脑袋想出来说，能overpower与自己同级的就行了．
【在 K****D 的大作中提到】
: 也就是说只要适应了就行了？i.e., 只是一个timing问题，而不需要花
: 更大的力？
|
t****i
发帖数: 4225 | 12 early preparation, when the ball is travelling in air, you should be moving
your feet and preparing the back swing.
my problem is that I am always lack of focus and concentration unless there
is something can turn me on. This happened last night the first time I
played indoor this year with dfmm. I was totally out of focus, and was
always late in footwork and preparation. I can only muscle the ball with no
much control, and she just used my pace and killed me easily. So
frustrated. Also, indoor is much faster, and the ball does not bouch as
high as outdoor.
【在 K****D 的大作中提到】
: 和比自己弱的人打球，来球比较慢，往往有足够时间setup, 并且考虑
: 击球线路，容易overpower对手。
: 和比自己强的人打球，来球比较快，所以哪怕站位正确，仍然很难回出
: 有威胁的球，具体体现就是机会球发不出力/打不出角度，威胁不够。
: 这个现象常见吗？有没有什么策略更正？
|
a*****3
发帖数: 10373 | 13 "...my problem is that I am always lack of focus and concentration unless
there is something can turn me on..."
单反mm definitely turns me on!
moving
there
no
【在 t****i 的大作中提到】
: early preparation, when the ball is travelling in air, you should be moving
: your feet and preparing the back swing.
: my problem is that I am always lack of focus and concentration unless there
: is something can turn me on. This happened last night the first time I
: played indoor this year with dfmm. I was totally out of focus, and was
: always late in footwork and preparation. I can only muscle the ball with no
: much control, and she just used my pace and killed me easily. So
: frustrated. Also, indoor is much faster, and the ball does not bouch as
: high as outdoor.
|
t******f
发帖数: 955 | 14 push back
【在 K****D 的大作中提到】
: 和比自己弱的人打球，来球比较慢，往往有足够时间setup, 并且考虑
: 击球线路，容易overpower对手。
: 和比自己强的人打球，来球比较快，所以哪怕站位正确，仍然很难回出
: 有威胁的球，具体体现就是机会球发不出力/打不出角度，威胁不够。
: 这个现象常见吗？有没有什么策略更正？
|
K****D
发帖数: 30533 | 15 目前偶还不想解决这个early preparation问题，毕竟有体能限制。被对手
打出的winner/forced error很多。
偶想解决的是是一个简单的问题：对手一个球很直的飞过来。偶早已到位
因为根本不用移动。问题是偶的这个前后位置不太对，经常太前（以前跟
慢球手打习惯了）。结果球着地才发现timing不对，经常只能靠手感推一个
flat ball过去。
一个典型的例子是接对方的削球。偶习惯性的往前移。结果削球着地之后
由于速度快，并没有停住，而是继续往前冲。这样timing完全乱套，几乎
100%都是直接error.
如果偶能解决这个问题，至少不会被killed那么惨，因为偶的回球有点威胁
的话对方也不容易一直打winner.
moving
there
no
【在 t****i 的大作中提到】
: early preparation, when the ball is travelling in air, you should be moving
: your feet and preparing the back swing.
: my problem is that I am always lack of focus and concentration unless there
: is something can turn me on. This happened last night the first time I
: played indoor this year with dfmm. I was totally out of focus, and was
: always late in footwork and preparation. I can only muscle the ball with no
: much control, and she just used my pace and killed me easily. So
: frustrated. Also, indoor is much faster, and the ball does not bouch as
: high as outdoor.
|
K****D
发帖数: 30533 | 16 I did, naturally. But that's harmless to the opponent.
【在 t******f 的大作中提到】
: push back
|
t****i
发帖数: 4225 | 17 It only happend a few times we played. Those times my footwork and timing
were super and I even felt I overpowered her. But most of the time I could
not keep up with that kind of concentration.
【在 a*****3 的大作中提到】
: "...my problem is that I am always lack of focus and concentration unless
: there is something can turn me on..."
: 单反mm definitely turns me on!
:
: moving
: there
: no
|
t******f
发帖数: 955 | 18 with placement change, pace change, spin change.
Not only shots with power hurts opponent, all the combination of changes hur
t more. They will lose rhythm soon and increase UEs.
【在 K****D 的大作中提到】
: I did, naturally. But that's harmless to the opponent.
|
K****D
发帖数: 30533 | 19 That's true. Almost all my points came from opponent's UEs.
But I don't think that's the way to win, due to my physical
condition (esp. my sore left knee). The total points gap is
still vast, and it will take too much toll on my body if I
continue the pusher route...
hur
【在 t******f 的大作中提到】
: with placement change, pace change, spin change.
: Not only shots with power hurts opponent, all the combination of changes hur
: t more. They will lose rhythm soon and increase UEs.
|
t****i
发帖数: 4225 | 20 It sounds like judgement problem, if you realize that you are not in a good
position to hit the ball when the ball already landed. At that time it is
already too late.
【在 K****D 的大作中提到】
: 目前偶还不想解决这个early preparation问题，毕竟有体能限制。被对手
: 打出的winner/forced error很多。
: 偶想解决的是是一个简单的问题：对手一个球很直的飞过来。偶早已到位
: 因为根本不用移动。问题是偶的这个前后位置不太对，经常太前（以前跟
: 慢球手打习惯了）。结果球着地才发现timing不对，经常只能靠手感推一个
: flat ball过去。
: 一个典型的例子是接对方的削球。偶习惯性的往前移。结果削球着地之后
: 由于速度快，并没有停住，而是继续往前冲。这样timing完全乱套，几乎
: 100%都是直接error.
: 如果偶能解决这个问题，至少不会被killed那么惨，因为偶的回球有点威胁
|
|
|
m*****r
发帖数: 3822 | 21 还是坑啊。
早引拍和体能没有半毛关系。我觉得最难的地方在于当节奏变化的时候，这个
timing就很容易丢掉。当对手球很强的时候，我基本就是他击球瞬间就开始
引拍，几乎和移动同时。但是有时球会比较慢，这个时候我很容易失去节奏。
所以觉得打球最怕一会儿快一会儿慢，很难consistent
【在 K****D 的大作中提到】
: 目前偶还不想解决这个early preparation问题，毕竟有体能限制。被对手
: 打出的winner/forced error很多。
: 偶想解决的是是一个简单的问题：对手一个球很直的飞过来。偶早已到位
: 因为根本不用移动。问题是偶的这个前后位置不太对，经常太前（以前跟
: 慢球手打习惯了）。结果球着地才发现timing不对，经常只能靠手感推一个
: flat ball过去。
: 一个典型的例子是接对方的削球。偶习惯性的往前移。结果削球着地之后
: 由于速度快，并没有停住，而是继续往前冲。这样timing完全乱套，几乎
: 100%都是直接error.
: 如果偶能解决这个问题，至少不会被killed那么惨，因为偶的回球有点威胁
|
g*****y
发帖数: 7271 | 22 这就是我说的overpower，不是说比你的最快球速快，而是能快到你不舒服，打不出通
常能打出的球来。我对上有一个球友就经常得适应一会儿他的球速。
主要问题还是要熟悉这个pace，以及在这个pace下回球的击球动作和timing。多和这个
level的人练习是唯一的出路，不一定非要比赛。
1. 根据来球速度，spin来预判最佳击球点。击球点判断准确，才能说其他的。
2. 如果来球过快，或者早引拍，或者缩短引拍，这样才能打出合理的击球动作。
drill时不要乱吊对手，除非你们商量好了这样的drill。不然搞得对方不喜欢和你练习
了，就亏了。
【在 K****D 的大作中提到】
: 目前偶还不想解决这个early preparation问题，毕竟有体能限制。被对手
: 打出的winner/forced error很多。
: 偶想解决的是是一个简单的问题：对手一个球很直的飞过来。偶早已到位
: 因为根本不用移动。问题是偶的这个前后位置不太对，经常太前（以前跟
: 慢球手打习惯了）。结果球着地才发现timing不对，经常只能靠手感推一个
: flat ball过去。
: 一个典型的例子是接对方的削球。偶习惯性的往前移。结果削球着地之后
: 由于速度快，并没有停住，而是继续往前冲。这样timing完全乱套，几乎
: 100%都是直接error.
: 如果偶能解决这个问题，至少不会被killed那么惨，因为偶的回球有点威胁
|
a*****3
发帖数: 10373 | 23 不要再死撑了！象我一直强调的90%问题都是footwork问题！
你的exactly就是这样的情况，就是预判和footwork.你认为所谓的"到位"其实还是不到
位，不管问题是前后还是左右.到了大概的范围，就要用碎步来调整．
【在 K****D 的大作中提到】
: 目前偶还不想解决这个early preparation问题，毕竟有体能限制。被对手
: 打出的winner/forced error很多。
: 偶想解决的是是一个简单的问题：对手一个球很直的飞过来。偶早已到位
: 因为根本不用移动。问题是偶的这个前后位置不太对，经常太前（以前跟
: 慢球手打习惯了）。结果球着地才发现timing不对，经常只能靠手感推一个
: flat ball过去。
: 一个典型的例子是接对方的削球。偶习惯性的往前移。结果削球着地之后
: 由于速度快，并没有停住，而是继续往前冲。这样timing完全乱套，几乎
: 100%都是直接error.
: 如果偶能解决这个问题，至少不会被killed那么惨，因为偶的回球有点威胁
|
t****i
发帖数: 4225 | 24 but most people don't recognize this. I always believe a lot of times are
because we did not get in a good position to hit a ball, not because we don'
t know how to hit a ball.
【在 a*****3 的大作中提到】
: 不要再死撑了！象我一直强调的90%问题都是footwork问题！
: 你的exactly就是这样的情况，就是预判和footwork.你认为所谓的"到位"其实还是不到
: 位，不管问题是前后还是左右.到了大概的范围，就要用碎步来调整．
|
a*****3
发帖数: 10373 | 25 所以身体派给b4是正常的！
don'
【在 t****i 的大作中提到】
: but most people don't recognize this. I always believe a lot of times are
: because we did not get in a good position to hit a ball, not because we don'
: t know how to hit a ball.
|
K****D
发帖数: 30533 | 26 I just don't understand why I am not in good position when
the ball is flying directly towards me. Even if I need to
go back one step, that's not tiring at all and a non-身体派
has sufficient stamina to do it.
It sounds like 90+% timing issue (lack of experience) to me
instead of stamina issue.
don'
【在 t****i 的大作中提到】
: but most people don't recognize this. I always believe a lot of times are
: because we did not get in a good position to hit a ball, not because we don'
: t know how to hit a ball.
|
a*****3
发帖数: 10373 | 27 你为什么讲的都是我以前讲过但你又反对的东西呢？
【在 K****D 的大作中提到】
: I just don't understand why I am not in good position when
: the ball is flying directly towards me. Even if I need to
: go back one step, that's not tiring at all and a non-身体派
: has sufficient stamina to do it.
: It sounds like 90+% timing issue (lack of experience) to me
: instead of stamina issue.
:
: don'
|
t****i
发帖数: 4225 | 28 no, stamina is a separate issue here.
Timing could be an issue in the case you were talking about, but only if you
are trying to take the ball early. But it looks like you would have been
in a better position if you step back one more step as you indicated. So it
is mainly footwork, anticipation and judgement.
【在 K****D 的大作中提到】
: I just don't understand why I am not in good position when
: the ball is flying directly towards me. Even if I need to
: go back one step, that's not tiring at all and a non-身体派
: has sufficient stamina to do it.
: It sounds like 90+% timing issue (lack of experience) to me
: instead of stamina issue.
:
: don'
|
m*****r
发帖数: 3822 | 29 肯王啊
【在 a*****3 的大作中提到】
: 你为什么讲的都是我以前讲过但你又反对的东西呢？
|
M*******n
发帖数: 508 | 30 I learned this from the video by James Jensen: Most club players rush too
close to the ball. It think it's true. Most intermediate club players
actually can run into position, but they tend to let the ball fly very close
to them before they hit. Bringing the ball closer gives them some kind of
false feeling of better control. This messes up the timing, and also
suppress the rocket swing, leading to mis-hits or weak shots.
【在 K****D 的大作中提到】
: I just don't understand why I am not in good position when
: the ball is flying directly towards me. Even if I need to
: go back one step, that's not tiring at all and a non-身体派
: has sufficient stamina to do it.
: It sounds like 90+% timing issue (lack of experience) to me
: instead of stamina issue.
:
: don'
|
|
|
K****D
发帖数: 30533 | 31 Which one? @_@
【在 a*****3 的大作中提到】
: 你为什么讲的都是我以前讲过但你又反对的东西呢？
|
a*m
发帖数: 6253 | 32 expectation, small steps, pull back and set up earlier, etc, are purely tech
yah...
People dont really need a strong body to do so, but need mentally/
technically good to do the right move at right moment.
【在 a*****3 的大作中提到】
: 所以身体派给b4是正常的！
:
: don'
|
a*****3
发帖数: 10373 | 33 这个坑里太多了～～
要一一指出来,即使我是pusher,也要累死我了!
【在 K****D 的大作中提到】
: Which one? @_@
|
a*****3
发帖数: 10373 | 34 don't agree.
All those small steps require a lot of energy. Many people can do it like
what you said at the beginning. But they tend to preserve some energy for
the later usage, like what 老肯 said. It makes them response slow or just
save half step. If you have good energy and strong legs, you know your limit
is far beyond the 3 sets or 5 sets, then you can always react very quickly
and use full speed all the time in the entire game/match.
It is around the mental to know what you can do and how long you can last in
such speed/rhythm of the the game.
tech
【在 a*m 的大作中提到】
: expectation, small steps, pull back and set up earlier, etc, are purely tech
: yah...
: People dont really need a strong body to do so, but need mentally/
: technically good to do the right move at right moment.
|
K****D
发帖数: 30533 | 35 Yesterday I had no reason to save my stamina. We only played
one set. And most of the time I was running around left to right
as a pusher, which is much more tiring than small step adjustments.
The typical situation was: I used small steps and was at perfect
location (as I thought) waiting for the ball. The the ball bounced
and suddenly I found myself out of position... My opponent even
hit a winner like that (the topsin bounced above my racket).
limit
quickly
in
【在 a*****3 的大作中提到】
: don't agree.
: All those small steps require a lot of energy. Many people can do it like
: what you said at the beginning. But they tend to preserve some energy for
: the later usage, like what 老肯 said. It makes them response slow or just
: save half step. If you have good energy and strong legs, you know your limit
: is far beyond the 3 sets or 5 sets, then you can always react very quickly
: and use full speed all the time in the entire game/match.
: It is around the mental to know what you can do and how long you can last in
: such speed/rhythm of the the game.
:
|
a*****3
发帖数: 10373 | 36 like I said million times, 和高手多打,习惯高手(人和球)的速度.打多了,预判就有了~~
【在 K****D 的大作中提到】
: Yesterday I had no reason to save my stamina. We only played
: one set. And most of the time I was running around left to right
: as a pusher, which is much more tiring than small step adjustments.
: The typical situation was: I used small steps and was at perfect
: location (as I thought) waiting for the ball. The the ball bounced
: and suddenly I found myself out of position... My opponent even
: hit a winner like that (the topsin bounced above my racket).
:
: limit
: quickly
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K****D
发帖数: 30533 | 37 Not easy ah. I spent a total of 1.5 hours driving yesterday...
有了~~
【在 a*****3 的大作中提到】
: like I said million times, 和高手多打,习惯高手(人和球)的速度.打多了,预判就有了~~
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a*****3
发帖数: 10373 | 38 靠,你不提这个还好,提了我更恼火:
周六,3pm出门,3:25pm到了stanford附近,开始塞车,才知道原来有football比赛,3:45塞
到网球场开始找parking,找到5pm也未果.只好灰溜溜地开回家.5:20pm到家!
2小时20分钟 for nothing!
【在 K****D 的大作中提到】
: Not easy ah. I spent a total of 1.5 hours driving yesterday...
:
: 有了~~
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s*********d
发帖数: 2406 | 39 还有一个问题 你们没提到，就是serve 后的，你对手的return， 经常有return的很快
很深的
这时 footwork的问题就显现出来了 ，不完全是 timming的问题。
serve之后根据球的情况判断，是原地，往前，还是往后，加方向，如果等对方回过来
再判断，很多时候都晚了，这个比平时 击球 的回球 问题，更明显，
而且你说的击球 timming 根据你们回合的增多而变得要求更高，开始的1，2strike,你
可能适应
到后来球速很旋转越快越急 ，你的level没有solid4.5以上，击球的timming 和挥拍的
速度 跟原来基本一样，但是感觉到球比以前快了，更转了，之后UE了。 |
g*****y
发帖数: 7271 | 40 曾经有过那么一次，我发现平击一发，对方回来的球奇快，我自己倒是来不及准备。最
后就一发狂加spin，球速没那么快，但对方回球也没那么暴力了。不过这个高人我只遇
过一次。
【在 s*********d 的大作中提到】
: 还有一个问题 你们没提到，就是serve 后的，你对手的return， 经常有return的很快
: 很深的
: 这时 footwork的问题就显现出来了 ，不完全是 timming的问题。
: serve之后根据球的情况判断，是原地，往前，还是往后，加方向，如果等对方回过来
: 再判断，很多时候都晚了，这个比平时 击球 的回球 问题，更明显，
: 而且你说的击球 timming 根据你们回合的增多而变得要求更高，开始的1，2strike,你
: 可能适应
: 到后来球速很旋转越快越急 ，你的level没有solid4.5以上，击球的timming 和挥拍的
: 速度 跟原来基本一样，但是感觉到球比以前快了，更转了，之后UE了。
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f*****n
发帖数: 18176 | 41 to back up this point, i give an example.
if i tell my partner to hit cross court FH each other, we can hit 30+
strokes with full pace.
if we hit random FH and BH, most of rallies are less than 10 strokes.
so if we can be the position, consistency will be improved a lot.
don'
【在 t****i 的大作中提到】
: but most people don't recognize this. I always believe a lot of times are
: because we did not get in a good position to hit a ball, not because we don'
: t know how to hit a ball.
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g*****y
发帖数: 7271 | 42 I am not saying your conclusion is wrong. But your example does not prove
your point at all. Maybe it's the change between FH and BH which causes the
lower consistency. If you hit cross court only, but changes FH and BH
periodically and still hit 30+ rallies, that will prove something. hehe
【在 f*****n 的大作中提到】
: to back up this point, i give an example.
: if i tell my partner to hit cross court FH each other, we can hit 30+
: strokes with full pace.
: if we hit random FH and BH, most of rallies are less than 10 strokes.
: so if we can be the position, consistency will be improved a lot.
:
: don'
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f*****n
发帖数: 18176 | 43 by knowing the ball will land at forehand side, you will at least get 0.1
second faster to reach the position.
i am sure if hitting FH and BH with changing periodically will also be
better than hitting randomly.
the
【在 g*****y 的大作中提到】
: I am not saying your conclusion is wrong. But your example does not prove
: your point at all. Maybe it's the change between FH and BH which causes the
: lower consistency. If you hit cross court only, but changes FH and BH
: periodically and still hit 30+ rallies, that will prove something. hehe
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g*****y
发帖数: 7271 | 44 If you can move to good position within 2 meters in 0.5 second and the ball
travels 1.0 second. Saving 0.1 second or not does not make a difference. You
will be waiting there for 0.4 second or 0.5 second.
I just want to point out changing between FH and BH itself (even when you
are in position) is a much tougher task than hitting FH only. In PingPong,
people can do quite some FH rallies with small amount of training. But
switching FH and BH (even not randomly) is a much much tougher task. Then,
consistent random FH and BH would be almost at pro level.
【在 f*****n 的大作中提到】
: by knowing the ball will land at forehand side, you will at least get 0.1
: second faster to reach the position.
: i am sure if hitting FH and BH with changing periodically will also be
: better than hitting randomly.
:
: the
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